Did anyone watch Sua Filo make his first start for the Cowboys last night ? He was so much more advanced .... I am now convinced that it is a coaching issue.
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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
Texansballer74
The Marine
theCATALYST
Football Messiah
It is possible the higher level of talent around him on the O-Line has elevated his play as well.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
All I saw was a team that didn't have enough depth on the OL.....this shouldn't have become an issue but it did b/c far too many picks and FA's didn't pan out.
If Gaine really focuses on this unit during the off-season (Draft and FA), then this team will have all the pieces needed to not only build a starting OL but for the first time, be able to have quality backups as well.
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Shishkabob
All Pro
Health...
plus a very small sample size from last year. Last year with Watson in we were utilizing a lot of max protection schemes, something we have been doing more often in recent weeks as well. But last year we were doing it with a fully healthy Watson, not a Watson with cracked ribs and a collapsed lung, Fuller was healthy for those games as well and we can all see how different our offense is with and without him out there. This year we let Watson get his brains beat in for a few games before we started using more blockers because our line isn't good, but by that time he was already playing hurt which limited him and the offense. Now that he is healthy we are without Fuller, and it looks like at least in the Denver game OB is still going with his more conservative game plan.
But last year X had a PFF grade of 33.8 and Allen a 40.9. Kelemente has a grade of 56.7 and Fulton 56.2, both playing through injuries. In all fairness though I rather us start Mancz over Fulton because him, Lamm, and Martin seem to work better together. guess that's another point X and Allen were considerably worse even though they had both been in this offense for years, whereas this is Kelemente's and Fulton's first season here...
Right, he had an all-pro LT next to him so that counts for something.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
I don’t know what to make of PFF. The scores across the board for the OL is either at average or above, but as a unit, they are far from average. I believe Mancz has the highest score, yet he’s a backup.
Yes and probably a better OL coach as well.
You are referring to the scores for the Texans Oline ?
dream_team
Hall of Fame
No. The individual grades.
Shishkabob
All Pro
I mainly just use their stats for oline because in internet discussions you need something quantifiable, and they are the only ones who put out numbers for Oline.
Only thing I can think of that goes with your point is, with the line you need 5 individuals working in unison to have a successful line. You can have 5 All pro's on your line, but if they don't work together the line will be bad. They might win their individual match ups to get them a higher score, but when it comes to working in tandem they fail. This is something that would probably be hard for PFF to judge as they don't know the responsibilities for each individual on a given play
badboy
Hall of Fame
an olineman may have a play to block or move in a certain direction but in split decision sees he must help another player or just adjust to an opponent's move. The result is probably discussed later in meetings. Sometimes for example a hold or interference penalty on a corner or WR is better than a sack or hit on QB or a touchdown. I don't think that is explained in stats.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Realize he was not graded out high and considered a project who “may have to move to right side”. But before that happens Texans will have to invest in higher graded, more ready to plug and play LT prospect in the draft to beat him out in camp next fall.
Even Dawkins who I wanted Texans to select in 2nd instead of Cunningham has been moved to LT because of need. Would have been nice to have both, but is what it is. Julie’n is going to just have to work on his heavy feet, and balance issues with coach Devlin. So far so good, considered less than two years removed from non FBS school Bucknell.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
#TexansOffensive line pass-blocking snaps and pressures allowed on the season: Davenport - 332 (42, most among T) Rankin - 192 (28, 7th-most among T) Lamm - 231 (17) Kelemete - 320 (15) Fulton - 323 (14) Martin - 380 (8) Mancz - 117 (5)
https://twitter.com/PFF_Texans/status/1062040905912328192
Being 'average' is the ceiling for this offensive line. I would be ecstatic for consistently average right now. I miss the ZBS, watching it last night with SF made me pine. Its a proven method of accountability instead of assignment based. Regardless, if Obrien has become humble, and understands he cant force feed a 'system' and instead must be a malleable coach then it could make for a fun season at least and more importantly keep Watson healthy.
Do you think he can improve his feet and base enough to become a starting caliber NFL LT? The ability to move feet is something a guy is born with. IMHO Can he improve yes, will he ever be good enough? I dont think so.
He certainly wont ever become DB. If he improves as much as you think he can who do you think he can become?
Texansballer74
The Marine
If he wasn't starting caliber offensive tackle, he would not be in the darn NFL let alone starting for the Texans.
Are you finally saying Obrien doesn't know what he's doing? He's the coach, who is in charge of who plays and who doesn't.
Are you finally saying Obrien doesn't know what he's doing? He's the coach, who is in charge of who plays and who doesn't.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Grow the hell up kid.
Stop being weak minded on here because some people don't agree with your hot takes
Can you F'N read?
LoL at that coming from you
I was thinking IF everyone stayed healthy 8-10 and challenging for the division. Considering the health, I'm pleased so far
Texansballer74
The Marine
Texansballer74
The Marine
True contender can be overrated sometimes. The Giants when they won didn't have a true contending team. They lost 6 freaking games straight but were able to squeak into the playoffs in which the entire team caught fire. Especially on the defensive end. They didn't have this massive OL. So you don't need what some thinks to be a freaking contender.
Says it all
Too many unrealistic expectations compared to talent level.
I realize you were being sarcastic. But many here are 1. Unrealistic 2. BOB Derangement Syndrome.
I realize BOB isn't perfect and have said as much in many posts.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Dude had unrealistic expectations for the Jaguars for 5 years now. But when it comes to his on team, it's a different story. Bwhahaha too funny
Somebody on here is mistaking me for Texian.
Not surprising.
Wasting my time. Let it go
Not surprising.
Wasting my time. Let it go
Texansballer74
The Marine
No you raved and bragged on the Jaguars for quite some time. About how they are doing things the right way.
You must be senile or have selective memory.
You must be senile or have selective memory.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Texansballer.....one question, how many NFL teams would make a trade with the Texans -right now- to gain the services of Davenport as their new LT?
Texansballer74
The Marine
Good question but it's still too early for that Optimistic. Let the youngster get at least another year 2 underneath his belt. Remember top drafted D. Brown didn't fare well in his first 16 games starting as a starter.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Derek Newton
BOBdaFRAUD
Waterboy
This o-line has become decent in very short amount of time. Penalties have been cut down and rushers getting free run at Watson has been greatly reduced.
Gaine will get more linemen because this guy knows what he is doing. He is from the Parcell tree right? So he knows the trench but he is also a money ball guy. Perfect combo if you ask me.
Gaine will get more linemen because this guy knows what he is doing. He is from the Parcell tree right? So he knows the trench but he is also a money ball guy. Perfect combo if you ask me.
Shishkabob
All Pro
decent? better than before? yes, decent? no. Watson was pressured or sacked on 50% of his drop backs last game(10 pressures, 4 sacks on 28 drop backs)
BOBdaFRAUD
Waterboy
pessimist much?
28 pressure on 28 dropbacks is bad
10 pressure on 28 dropbacks is kinda............................... improved
6 straight wins is testament of the O-line improving. You dont win in this league is you have total trash o-line...... and watson is still alive.......... so yeah improved
Shishkabob
All Pro
I clearly said they improved in my post, I just said they still aren't decent. For most of the league your QB getting pressures or sacked on 30% of their drop backs is way to high, we think 50% is great... and that is with us having extra blockers on every drop back. We honestly got lucky the Broncos didn't blitz more, because when they did it was very effective.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
True about Brown but remember, Brown started for 3 seasons as Virginia Tech's LT. He was actually a TE in his 1st season after a redshirt season. Anyhow, 3 seasons starting for the Hokies dwarfs the competition Davenport faced starting for 3 years at Bucknell.
I would still draft the best possible LT in RD1 or RD2 depending on where the Texans wind up. Either way, I still see Mitch Hyatt, Clemson as the guy that will be available when the Texans pick....another true 4 year starter at LT and played for Clemson, a 4 time CFB Playoff team with 1 National Championship under their belt. Not to mention, a team who's probably going to have played in 3 of the 4 (15, 16, 17 & 18) National Championship Games. He's been their LT during this stretch and all 3 QB's seem to have prevailed nicely.
I'd draft Hyatt and let him Davenport decide in camp who wants to be the starting LT more.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
A good part of high pressure numbers and sack numbers coming down somewhat are that Watson is getting the ball out quicker.........and he is not running around so much with the D on his heels.
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
Not even a RT in the NFL as he easily proved each and every time he took the field.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I'm not sold on Davenport anywhere as a starter, but as much as many here say that RT and LT translate interchangeably, it does not. And with the limited unprepared time that Davenport has had at RT is not a fair evaluation of his ability at that position. What is, is the one-on-one strength you need at RT.............something he has yet to show when playing against any good strong D.
I agree with you on Hyatt. I thought he would come out last year. If you were to take him with one of our seconds, would you also consider taking Wisconsin ROT - David Edwards in latter part of first round ?
I would.
Check out Yodny Cajuste and let me know what you think.
I really like Little alot and if he falls out of the top 5 I would trade up for him. Even if it meant a Julio Jones type trade. He's a 10 yr starter/all pro type guy. IMHO His footwork is so good.
Texansballer74
The Marine
You do know every team that faces the Broncos deals with that same issue correct. That's a top notch front. It doesn't matter if you have a top 5 offensive line, that front will win it's share of battles in the trenches.
I really do not understand some of the great football minds on here. I mean one would think yall would factor in that as well. But you guys don't.
Texansballer74
The Marine
I've stated this several times. Imo that's what I call coaching. Props to Bill O'Brien and staff for that.
You gotta take into account the playing style of your QB. As I watched the game I don't remember thinking the OL broke down on 50% of their snaps.
On more than one occasion I thought "WTF Griff?"
He looked pretty strong to me. Against Denver he matched up with their DE more frequently than Chubb & he was pushing that big dude around in the run game & virtually walled him off in the pass game.
Granted the DE he was playing was not a pass rusher.
But he looked strong enough. To me.
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Shishkabob
All Pro
until our line can hold up 1v1 in pass rush situations at a good enough rate, I won't be happy with it. Yes our line has been pass blocking better, but we are also leaving tight ends, and RBs in to block a lot more often then we should have to. The more guys we can have in routes, the more targets for Watson, the higher chance of a busted coverage, and the more spread out the defense will have to get thus freeing up our run game. Funny you mention Griff, on one of Watson's sack, Griff actually did a good job blocking Chubb initially before leaking out as is the play design, Davenport clearly didn't know the play so Chubb got a straight line shot at Watson.
Shishkabob
All Pro
Broncos have a good pass rush, not a 'get pressure 50% of the time pass rush though'
TEAM PASS-RUSH GRADE: 68.0
Team Pressure Percentage: 30% (T-21st)
Team Pressure Percentage when Blitzing: 45.2% (29th)
Top Pass-Rusher (Pass-Rush Grade): Edge Bradley Chubb (74.8)
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-teams-pass-rush-units-after-week-6
Facts are tending to get in the way of narratives around these parts.
The OL has improved from terrible to bad. Davenport has improved in the run game. Not so much in the pass game. Want me to give you a bad thought, imagine this OL pass blocking with Weeden at QB.