Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

State of the O-line

Shishkabob said:
This goes back to what I was saying before Fulton was back, that the chemistry between Mancz and Lamm, and Mancz and Martin is better than just the natural talent of Fulton over Mancz. Maybe if Henderson was still here it would be a different story, but Mancz just has a report with Lamm and Martin that Fulton doesn't seem to have. When Mancz was asked about his chemistry with Lamm he even said as much, he said based on the defensive front all he and Lamm have to do is give each other a look and they know what they are going to do on that play against that front. Cohesiveness is probably the most important part of a line, you need 5 guys working in perfect unison together
Click to expand...
Bringing in Henderson, Kelemete and Fulton was a move that just never gave the line chance to blend. That hurt D + the much discussed move to RT. We are now seeing better results as guys get to know each other.
 
thunderkyss said:
Why not? Isn't that what Kubiak did?

Look, guys here didn't like Ben Jones but he's part of a pretty good OL in Tennessee & I don't think Martin has played as well for us here.

Brooks is part of a decent line in Philly. However you slice it, the Texans messed that situation up.

That's two positions they spent time, money, & effort on they didn't need to. Could used it on OTs.

But they didn't. Where we are now they have no option. But to coach up what they have.

In January they can asses what they were & weren't able to accomplish via coaching & go from there.
Click to expand...

Because the deficit in talent was/is too great that’s why.

No amount of good coaching is going to turn Davenport into Anythony Munoz & we’ll be lucky if he can improve enough to turn into Ephraim “the turnstile” Salaam.

We also gotta stop referencing Kubiak’s oline b/c for 1, the type of lineman he required to run his system were different. He wanted more lighter, nimble guys that could get to the second level to run that zone blocking scheme. Those type of guys are much more plentiful than the true mauler types BoB wants to run his system......imo of course.

The other thing is everyone on here knew that our o-line was gonna be a weak point on this team coming into the season. So I doubt moving Davenport to the right side and Rankin to the left was gonna make the o-line that much worse than what they’ve already shown themselves to be when they’re not getting help.

We’ve also gone over the departure of all the Kubiak o-line ad-nauseum. Most of those guys made decisions that took the Texans out of it completely & you can’t completely hold that against them or the Texans FO for resigning them.
 
badboy said:
Bringing in Henderson, Kelemete and Fulton was a move that just never gave the line chance to blend. That hurt D + the much discussed move to RT. We are now seeing better results as guys get to know each other.
Click to expand...

BTW, D still sucks and frequently trips over his own feet in pass pro. That's when he's not getting knocked on his butt. He has improved as a run blocker, not that that's saying much.
 
badboy said:
Bringing in Henderson, Kelemete and Fulton was a move that just never gave the line chance to blend. That hurt D + the much discussed move to RT. We are now seeing better results as guys get to know each other.
Click to expand...

It takes time............

maxresdefault.jpg
 
Man, if O'Brien and Devlin would just be smarter.....they've almost got a starting OL set to finish the season and roll into next season. I just can't fathom how they didn't see the difference in the OL in Weeks 7-8 and then the decline in Week 9. Anyhow, this is TT and I'm going to play armchair Coach and GM.

Starting OL Week 11 - 17

LT- Davenport
LG- Rankin
OC- Martin
RG- Mancz
RT- Lamm

OG- Kelemete
OG- Fulton

OT- Henderson (IR)

OT- Johnson (PS)

2019 OL w/ Projected Picks Included

LT- Hyatt (Clemson)
LG- Rankin
OC- Martin
RG- Mancz
RT- Lamm

OT- Davenport
OC/OG- Risner (Kansas State)
OG- Kelemete or Fulton

OT- Scharping (Northern Illinois)
 
not sure why you would have Rankin above Kelemente if both are healthy. The rookie has not shown it and Kelemente is starting to be servicable. Let the rookie sit and backup, get healthy, stronger and grab a spot in 2019. I do think running game looks better with Mancz, whether it is his skill or just him and Lamm chemistry, I agree it seems to be our strongest combo for the right side.

What am I missing on Rankin? Has he looked servicable anywhere along the line yet? I think he will develop as a guard fine, but dont see starting in 2018 above the other three
 
Rich Schmidt said:
not sure why you would have Rankin above Kelemente if both are healthy. The rookie has not shown it and Kelemente is starting to be servicable. Let the rookie sit and backup, get healthy, stronger and grab a spot in 2019. I do think running game looks better with Mancz, whether it is his skill or just him and Lamm chemistry, I agree it seems to be our strongest combo for the right side.

What am I missing on Rankin? Has he looked servicable anywhere along the line yet? I think he will develop as a guard fine, but dont see starting in 2018 above the other three
Click to expand...

I would like to see Fulton tried at LG and Mancz at RG next time Kelemente goes down
 
IDEXAN said:
I dunno how much difference is there between the RG & LG positions ?
Click to expand...

well Mancz looked like crap last time he was tried at LG... Allen looked like crap at RG, so seems to be quite a difference. Sides seem to make quite a difference for most
 
infantrycak said:
There's quite a bit. Obviously reversing all the footwork but the assignments aren't exactly mirror images. Some people find flipping easy but for many it becames an in their head furball.
Click to expand...
Oh I'm aware of the challenges of playing the same position right-handed and then left-handed. Sure takes time to develop the muscle memory for a different side.
That's not the same as the differences, the demands between playing left & right tackle by comparison: one position requires significantly more innate athleticism which of course can't be acquired thru repetition or practice.
 
Rich Schmidt said:
not sure why you would have Rankin above Kelemente if both are healthy. The rookie has not shown it and Kelemente is starting to be servicable. Let the rookie sit and backup, get healthy, stronger and grab a spot in 2019. I do think running game looks better with Mancz, whether it is his skill or just him and Lamm chemistry, I agree it seems to be our strongest combo for the right side.

What am I missing on Rankin? Has he looked servicable anywhere along the line yet? I think he will develop as a guard fine, but dont see starting in 2018 above the other three
Click to expand...

I can agree with this. Let Rankin compete for the LG spot next off season.
 
I still don't get why people are calling to replace our best lineman over recent weeks, Kelemente. Even dealing with a bum knee he has been solid in the pass and run game, plus inserting someone new next to Davenport would most likely cause his play to drop to a lower level than what it is.
 
Question is, would more rest benefit Kelemente than subjecting him to further injury? Minimum should be less reps, see how his knee responds if not go with Mancz/Rankins duo.
 
Check this out & help calibrate my OL grading. Many here think Davenport is bad. PFF graded him low in this game. I thought he was respectable. Borderline good.

This is just highlights. Not the whole game so I'm sure we'll miss the most horrendous snaps. But I would think there would be more bad snaps than good, if he was as bad as they say.

Like I said, I'm most likely wrong. Just asking your help to understand how.

 
thunderkyss said:
Check this out & help calibrate my OL grading. Many here think Davenport is bad. PFF graded him low in this game. I thought he was respectable. Borderline good.

This is just highlights. Not the whole game so I'm sure we'll miss the most horrendous snaps. But I would think there would be more bad snaps than good, if he was as bad as they say.

Like I said, I'm most likely wrong. Just asking your help to understand how.

Click to expand...

First big error I see is the 3rd play, the TD pass to Thomas. The Lber shows blitz, and stunts back to the outside, Davenport should have handed off the DE to Kelemente and picked up the backer. Luckily Thomas beat his guy quick allowing DW4 to get the ball out before he got hit. Then at the 40 second mark he stays in on a triple team with the DT, I can see him needing to throw a hand in there to help with how the DT is shaded, but he needs to come off it sooner and get to the DE because Griffin is suppose to go out in route, he is just there to push the DE further out and by Davenport some more time, but Davenport doesn't get over until way to late. One thing you can see after the first couple of minutes is he is really slow and often takes a poor first step towards the inside when thats where his assignment is. Your interior line is suppose to set the depth of the pocket, and your tackles set the width, to often when he is 1v1 and he does make the block he still leaves the pocket way to narrow. I actually think he does fairly well at the 5.00 mark, he gets beat by the speed a little, but does what you are suppose to do in that situation and runs the guy passed DW4. The break down happened because of a well timed blitz, and possibly Kelemente following the wrong guy. He actually did really well on the WR screen to Hopkins at the 6:24 mark, sets outside forcing Chubb inside(if Chubb goes outside he can break up the pass or force DW4 to lob it which kills the screen) then he shows good athleticism to get out and get the seal block on Harris to spring Nuk for a 1st down. The holding call around the 7:07 mark I totally blame Mancz for, Davenport is set up well for the outside rusher, Mancz gets beat hard inside so when the end stunts back over the top the DT is already level with Davenport leading him to have to hold to prevent DW4 from getting killed. Maybe Davenport set out a little to wide there, but hard to tell from the side view.

He is getting better, but you can see a lot of the times they have a TE chipping on his side, or the RB shaded over that way to help. Very rarely do they leave him singled up to block, and when they do it's normally a quick pass. He still doesn't keep the width of the pocket enough for my liking, but he is clearly better at this point in the season than earlier. I think this was his first positive pass blocking grade all season, maybe the Miami game too? To me he has to get stronger at the point of attack so he doesn't get pushed back so far, and he has to work on that inside step(it's more prevalent in the run game, or on PA passes)
 
Most may disagree but I am not so concerned with QB pressures even hits as Watson usually gets ball off. Sacks are the issue and against Jags and Miami he was sacked one time for both games. He was sacked four times at Mile High and Denver had much better defense + high altitude didn't help anyone. Coming off bye I expect too see a much better effort from all on offense. Of course we don't want him hit at all.
 
badboy said:
Most may disagree but I am not so concerned with QB pressures even hits as Watson usually gets ball off. Sacks are the issue and against Jags and Miami he was sacked one time for both games. He was sacked four times at Mile High and Denver had much better defense + high altitude didn't help anyone. Coming off bye I expect too see a much better effort from all on offense. Of course we don't want him hit at all.
Click to expand...


The oline play has gotten better. Hats off to the coaching for making those adjustments. This is money time so I believe they will be a much better overall team going forward. Fingers crossed of course.
 
badboy said:
Most may disagree but I am not so concerned with QB pressures even hits as Watson usually gets ball off. Sacks are the issue and against Jags and Miami he was sacked one time for both games. He was sacked four times at Mile High and Denver had much better defense + high altitude didn't help anyone. Coming off bye I expect too see a much better effort from all on offense. Of course we don't want him hit at all.
Click to expand...
Always appreciate your take Badboy and I hope your expectations about our offense are 100% on target.
 
Shishkabob said:
First big error I see is the 3rd play, the TD pass to Thomas. The Lber shows blitz, and stunts back to the outside, Davenport should have handed off the DE to Kelemente and picked up the backer. Luckily Thomas beat his guy quick allowing DW4 to get the ball out before he got hit. Then at the 40 second mark he stays in on a triple team with the DT, I can see him needing to throw a hand in there to help with how the DT is shaded, but he needs to come off it sooner and get to the DE because Griffin is suppose to go out in route, he is just there to push the DE further out and by Davenport some more time, but Davenport doesn't get over until way to late. One thing you can see after the first couple of minutes is he is really slow and often takes a poor first step towards the inside when thats where his assignment is. Your interior line is suppose to set the depth of the pocket, and your tackles set the width, to often when he is 1v1 and he does make the block he still leaves the pocket way to narrow. I actually think he does fairly well at the 5.00 mark, he gets beat by the speed a little, but does what you are suppose to do in that situation and runs the guy passed DW4. The break down happened because of a well timed blitz, and possibly Kelemente following the wrong guy. He actually did really well on the WR screen to Hopkins at the 6:24 mark, sets outside forcing Chubb inside(if Chubb goes outside he can break up the pass or force DW4 to lob it which kills the screen) then he shows good athleticism to get out and get the seal block on Harris to spring Nuk for a 1st down. The holding call around the 7:07 mark I totally blame Mancz for, Davenport is set up well for the outside rusher, Mancz gets beat hard inside so when the end stunts back over the top the DT is already level with Davenport leading him to have to hold to prevent DW4 from getting killed. Maybe Davenport set out a little to wide there, but hard to tell from the side view.

He is getting better, but you can see a lot of the times they have a TE chipping on his side, or the RB shaded over that way to help. Very rarely do they leave him singled up to block, and when they do it's normally a quick pass. He still doesn't keep the width of the pocket enough for my liking, but he is clearly better at this point in the season than earlier. I think this was his first positive pass blocking grade all season, maybe the Miami game too? To me he has to get stronger at the point of attack so he doesn't get pushed back so far, and he has to work on that inside step(it's more prevalent in the run game, or on PA passes)
Click to expand...

Great post

He just doesn't have the feet to play LT in the NFL as a starter.
 
Texansballer74 said:
The play calling has gotten better thus helping the line play better. New England, Greenbay New Orleans, Seattle and Pittsburgh has done this often. People truly act as if every good to elite teams have this massive oline play that dominates the NFL like no other.
Click to expand...

The teams with the best OL's are usually the best teams.

BTW, I will add that Lamm's improvement has really impressed me. He held his own against Miller and you can really see the if progress he's made. I wouldn't have a problem with him as the starting RT next yr, although Gaine could certainly upgrade this position too.
 
steelbtexan said:
The teams with the best OL's are usually the best teams.

BTW, I will add that Lamm's improvement has really impressed me. He held his own against Miller and you can really see the if progress he's made. I wouldn't have a problem with him as the starting RT next yr, although Gaine could certainly upgrade this position too.
Click to expand...

I'm not so high on Lamm. The help he got was more evident to me than what Davenport got. Still, I thought he struggled a good bit.

Von Miller... yeah, I get it. Still.

Starting RT? I'm not seeing it.

I liked your post because you said something positive, even though I don't agree.
 
Scooter said:
I'm going to need some type of evidence for this statement.

The best DL's are usually deeper in the playoffs by my estimation.
Click to expand...

Would you say the teams that have really good OL's last yr did well? Playoff teams.

Philly/New Orleans/Minny/Rams all had well above avg OL's.

Pats always have good OL's/Steelers/Jags.

The best OL's in the NFL last yr. IMHO
 
steelbtexan said:
Do you even watch the games?

Chubb absolutely worked Davenport last game.

Why? Because Devlin made a decision to double team and chip Miller throughout the game.
Click to expand...

I guess I watched a different game. I posted the highlights earlier, if I were to post it again could you give me the time stamp of one time Chubb "absolutely worked Davenport"?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top