Brad Seely getting it done!
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Brad Seely getting it done!
beerlover
Hall of Fame
They we're both signed almost simultaneously by the McNair's both (O'Brian/Gaine) signing off on each other I might add and tied @ the hip with matching 5 year stints
Mangler
Toro de España
Now we just need a competent OC and Head Coach.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
I think that Gaine and even a little to BOB for credit as well. We brought in some dedicated proven special teams talent, not just kickers and long snappers, but think Brad deserves the lion's share. Kind of wish we had a dynamic return guy, he seems to tell Ervin to just get what he can and sacrifice your body, dude has taken some whacks this year for 10 yds
Shishkabob
All Pro
Seely and Gaine. The Athletic did an article on this, I won't pay for the site but here is a snippet that someone posted from it
When former general manager Rick Smith dabbled in special teams, the Texans were always looking for the home run, not necessarily the line drive to the gap. When Smith paid attention to the special teams, it resulted in moves like picking LSU’s Trindon Holliday in the late rounds of the draft, or selecting A&M kicker Randy Bullock, renowned for his strong leg. Smith craved upside. He wanted a returner so fast that it would change the way teams approached punting to the Texans. He wanted a kicker who could routinely hit from 50. Thompson was another of Smith’s projects in that area — he was by far the fastest player the Texans had last year, and he had no idea what to do with the speed.
Seely and Gaine have cleaned that up this offseason. The best way to demonstrate this is in the sheer amount of roster turnover.
Of Houston’s special teamers that got 40 percent of the special teams snaps or more last season, only five of those 11 players are still on the roster. And of those five, only Scarlett, Alfred Blue, and captain Brian Peters are still in the top 11 of special teams snaps a year later… Of the players Houston released, waived, or parted with among their special teams players with more than 40% of the snaps last season, only Corey Moore latched on with a new team (Colts). Every other player is an unsigned free agent.
I’m not giving O’Brien any credit, special teams have continued to suck since he’s been here.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Same guy ya'll were crucifying week 2 against the Titans. this is TexansTalk!!
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Ummm, setting up tendencies is a bad thing dude.
A gameplan offense means your attack changes from week to week in terms of the design & formation of plays you call, the concepts your offense uses to exploit certain things on a defense however remain the same.
Looked like the same ole story then, hopefully it continues in this positive direction.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
lol so that's your come back? Good one!
Great read. Maybe the McNairs should read and compare against what BOB thinks. Of course BRAIN is the smartest person in the universe so he knows all.
Also BOB doesn't need to perform because it just doesn't matter 4-12 new four year extension so why put in the TIME. And in reality it just isn't going to matter because the BRAIN is BRAINLESS.
WHAT a fu$%^*ng waste of talent. Wish the players would speak up.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Not if it's the right practices. Bill O'Brien is not taking full advantages of exploiting those mismatches. Well let me retract, in the redzone he is not running plays to exploit the defense. Thst stuff he is running looks very vanilla. Last year he took advantage when Watson was out there.
As far as that gameplan method. Man scrap that crap. Find an identity and stick with it.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Well aren't you in full defensive mode behind that atrocious production under Bill's leadership?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
There are only 1-3 match ups that more or less remain in the Texans' favor at any point on the field. Nuk, WFV & Watson. Watson gets neutralized at times b/c the o-line can't protect him & Nuk gets nuetralized at times with safeties shaded over the top.
Now that leaves WFV & Coutee....but they are WR's who also get neutralized for the same reasons Watson does...i.e. Watson can't exploit those match up advantages if he's always on his back & running for his life. Aside from that, when you get down into the red zone the passing game as a whole gets depressed b/c of spacing. That's why the sweet spot for "taking shots" to the end zone for every damn team is that 10 yards in between the 30 to about right on the edge of the red zone....if you plan to pass. If you can run the ball, its not as big of deal. So...we can't run the ball consistently nor protect consistently.
Tell me again how running plays to exploit these match ups is so easy?
Texansballer74
The Marine
Miller and Blue are pretty good at catching the ball out the backfield. Utility them against the LBers. You have a 6'7 270+ TE with great freaking hands, how about utilizing that weapon more often. You have another big body reciever.
They have options Tex.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
No they don’t TB. You can’t do any of that stuff CONSISTENTLY, when you have protection issues b/c 1 of those guys rb or TE is having to stay in to help with protection on a regular basis. Do u realize The Bills were getting to Watson with just a 3 man pass rush?
That’s terrible from an o-line standpoint.
For Christ sakes just pull up the YouTube video of all of the sacks the bills got on Watson & just watch Davenport. He’s either outright getting beat around the corner or getting straight overpowered right into Watson’s lap. There was one sack where Kelemete stuffed his defender and passed him off to Davenport...like he was supposed to and Davenport whiffed so hard he barely even touch the guy..pathetic.
Something else you’ll notice: Lamar Miller is certifiable trash in pass pro. In each of those sacks, Lamar Miller’s effort and amount of contact on the times he was supposed to be chipping is laughable.
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texanhead08
All Pro
I wonder what he will do this week to make us scream for his head.
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Won’t take much but a loss...
Texansballer74
The Marine
I've seen the game twice and there is no creativity whatsoever in the redzone. No rub routes , no quick hitters no nothing. Just plain Jane.
Yes Miller is, that's why we need Foreman back as soon as possible.
The offensive line is pathetic and that's coaching. They are not communicating. The only game they played well was against Dallas.
That is why they need to speed up things. Dink and donk, move the pocket and get Watson outside of it.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
We can just agree to disagree
Their problems aren’t with coaching...It’s that they are more or less overmatched athletically; particularly Davenport b/c week in, week out he draws the defenses best pass rusher on DW4’s backside.
Lamm is only just ok b/c he gets the defense’s 2nd best pass rusher and he’s a little better at utilizing the TE and rb help he gets by turning his guy inside.
texanhead08
All Pro
I think the expectations for Foreman need to be checked. You have seen Achilles injuries end many RB's careers including Foster so expecting Foreman to even be close to what he was before might be asking too much.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Exactly..furthermore he didn’t show too much of anything in pass pro to begin with. He was either carrying the ball with the same minimal success as the other guys in from of him or he was out in route.
Texansballer74
The Marine
It was Fosters hamstring not Achilles. And I've seen Adrian Peterson work himself back into the mix in less than a year. So it is not farfetched to think Foreman can come back and play better than what we have.
Texansballer74
The Marine
How are they over match when they were pretty darn good with their previous teams. Martin and Mancz were pretty darn good before their injuries. How come other teams like New England get by with lesser talent on the offensive line. Easy they are well coached, that's why.
texanhead08
All Pro
https://www.si.com/nfl/2015/10/25/houston-texans-arian-foster-injury-update
Houston Texans RB Arian Foster out for year with torn Achilles
OptimisticTexan
2024 / Rebuilding Block 4 After Playoffs / Texans
I believe it is a Achilles injury. I'm all for sitting him for the rest of this season, unless the Texans are playing for a Participation Trophy. I and very few others were actually behind the idea that Adrien Peterson would've been a proper signing to gap Foreman this season. Hands down, we were right.
Shishkabob
All Pro
So if the oline is the root of the problem, and O'Brien and Gaine thought this line would be good enough to go into the season with then that's on them right? Also keeping Devlin employed even though our line has regressed every year under him, and he has yet to develop a single lineman is also on O'Brien right?
As a headcoach you are directly responsible for the success and failures of the coaches underneath you, and the players underneath them. If a manager has an employee that keeps messing up and costing the company money, yet they continuously keep them employed despite evidence showing they are not cut out for the job, what do you think the corporate office will eventually do to that manager?
Shishkabob
All Pro
It's football, 90% of the players who make it through the college ranks will have an injury history
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Dude, Mancz nor Martin have ever been considered “good” by anyone except for a few fans here. Fulton couldn’t crack the starting line up in KC, nor could Kelemete and were only considered “good” in the roles they played as spot starters along the o-line at various positions. Martin hadn’t even played enough on the pro level to be considered anything except having the potential to be good; but that was more b/c of his brother and where he himself was drafted. You know what though, so was XSF. And you see he’s vegetating on the bottom of Tennessee’s roster right now.
I personally happen to believe that the guards Kelemete and Fulton aren’t that bad, they just look worse than they are b/c the 2 tackles next to them are certified poo.
But 610 spoke on this yesterday. All the o-linemen that we’re on this team last year are either out of the league or are bottom of the roster guys on other teams. IOW, The league has spoken and they say those guys stunk to the high heavens too. The not-so Funny thing is......this o-line appears to be worse
according to the numbers anyway. Davenport seems to be leading that charge as he is single handedly sinking the whole unit with his terrible play.....Imo of course.
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
We’ve already addressed this question in other threads my dude.
just what the hell would u have had them do this offseason with limited draft capital and good FA available? We went after Solder, he chose NYG..lot of good that’s doing them as he has looked only a sliver better than Davenport has. But if your paying a guy THAT much money, u expect better play than he’s been giving them.
We didn’t go after Norwell, but if u check the Jags board regularly .....like I do, he’s been playing subpar for them too..& has now been injured for the last 2 games.
For the money, Fulton and Kelemete, u could argue both those guys have been better or at least comparable.
Y’all gotta get real. Depending on how the Texans chose to spend their draft capital and money, there was gonna be a hole somewhere on this team either in the secondary or o-line..no matter what. We couldn’t fix everything in 1 offseason.
the early results of our draft class and FA acquisitions combined it appears we’ve done well reasonably well.
You guys think the NFL is Aiken to little league and high school ball...where the coaching of a player is much more vital to a players development. It’s not.
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Watson is given leeway because he hasn't started even 16 games yet... so why is an OT that has started less than 8 in his normal position expected to be better? This OL has been together less than 1/2 season... it takes time. Who is responsible for that situation?
Just using your post as a launching point
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
B/c with Watson, he has at least shown the chops to be able to play on this level...even early in his 2nd and 3rd games last year he was flashing and he’s flashes more often than he shits the bed since.
Davenport is the direct opposite. It was debatable how he looked late last year & at no point this season has he shown that he can play on this level.
Bill O'Brien disagrees with you
And who is responsible that he is starting for us? When drafted, most fans knew he needed time to get stronger and develop. Didn't the coaches know he wasn't a plug and play right away? He was a 4th round pick for some reason.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Says who? You? Davenport was given a shot based on limited snaps the previous year & the FO having no real options this offseason. Not uncommon for a coach to do that with a player. Up to the player to take advantage of the opportunity though and So far, Davenport has failed miserably. He’s likely only still out there b/c they have no other options. I seriously doubt he’d still be out there though if Henderson were healthy playing RT. Lamm is likely at LT then and Davenport is on the bench.
So, who is responsible for that situation?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
If memory serves, he was drafted last year and didn’t play until the last 2 games in 2017...So he wasn’t plug and play.
That said, he got a little game experience last year and has had a whole offseason to get stronger...this is also his 2nd training camp in this scheme. At this point, the scheme he’s been coached to learn should be down and the last part of his development is to go out and apply said scheme you’ve been coached.
So far from him....what I’ve seen looks like he hasn’t improved 1 iota. Doesn’t even look like he’s been coached by anyone to play LT........ever.
Now before folks say “well he looks that bad probably bcc the scheme isn’t being coached to him properly...scheme is trash..etc”
Kelemete came here and in 1 year, has been coached the scheme and doesn’t appear to look nearly as lost and overmatched physically..Ditto for Fulton.
I’m not expecting him to look like Anthony Munoz...I’m just looking for competence and for you to at least look the part...he’s shown none of the above. Technique is terrible.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Both BoB as the HC & Davenport as a professional are. Thing is BoB is more responsible for giving him the opportunity though. You guys seem to want to absolve Davenport of his
responsibility for his own damn development and that's not how it works. The greatest coach isn't going to lift the weights for you so that you get stronger.
The greatest coaching isn't going to be able to move your feet for you when you step out onto that field. HE has to learn to apply what he's been coached...likely for his entire career dating back to college.
Its one thing to coach you up on the scheme, your technique and how to study your opponent, but again the player
also has to self scout, work on their deficiencies and get better & ultimately apply it............if he has the ability to do it.
Like you said for Blue in the other thread, he was a late round pick... what did you expect?
And if he isn't getting coached up isn't that as least as much on the coach as it is the player? And shouldn't the coach recognize it if he isn't capable? And I'm not (and I don't think anyone is) trying absolve Davenport of anything. But you seem unwilling to hold the coaches responsible for anything. If he's that bad, why are they putting him out there?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
That's the thing, I myself wasn't really expecting anything from Davenport...period. Late round guy or whatever. But unlike Blue, Davenport isn't really bringing anything to the table other than his health and availability. He's is 98% hindering this team as a starting LT.
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Mr teX
Hall of Fame
That's the thing. None of us really know if he isn't being "coached up", these are all just opinions based on how he has looked. But..lets put it like this. What's the most likely scenario:
- The coaching staff is pouring in as much resources & help as they can to get him coached up & he's just not very good, can't apply it, in over his head etc............or
- Davenport isn't recieving any tutelage not very good coaching, noone on the coaching staff is really teaching/coaching him anything & they're sending him out there week after week to fail.
The 1st scenario is the most likely b/c the avg career in the NFL is what 3 years? Guys wash out in the NFL every year b/c they simply can't play...no big deal.
The 2nd scenario is simply implausible b/c it helps noone, the player, the coaches, nor the team.
Again, who is responsible for him being there? Last year the sucky OT's got lots of help. Davenport and Lamm both were used a lot in the TE spot to help the tackles, but this year they have to make it in their own? If the coaches know Davenport can't do the job by himself why do they keep putting him on an island?
Shishkabob
All Pro
It's funny how former NFL players will say how vital coaching is to a player's performance, but you a keyboard warrior wants to discredit it. Have you played sports in your life ever? If coaching isn't vital to a players development why did we let our DB coach go when KJo wasn't improving enough? Why did OB can his first OL coach because he thought he was hurting X's development? It is obvious O'Brien himself believes coaching plays a big role in a players development, why do you want to discredit it?
I get we missed on Solder, I am fine with them taking a chance and missing. I understand there weren't many other options out there. A lot of back up level talent which is generally what hits the FA market for OL. But Davenport, and Rankin haven't even been playing on a backup level. We saw last year first hand the dumpster fire that Kendall Lamm was, why couldn't they bring in someone to replace him at the 4th OT spot? Are you suggesting there were no FA better than Lamm? I get bringing in Henderson cheap 1 year deal with upside, but they could have brought in more and should have, at least for competitions sake.
It's a new OL they need time to gel right? Well then why did O'Brien barely play them in the preseason considering it was 5 guys who have really never played together before? How come with a young inexperienced LT, and new RT who hasn't played much in recent years did we not allocate more help to our oline in the first 3 games?(we were bottom 5 in the league in leaving in extra blockers) How come after 2 games(games 4&5) of allocating more help, and showing improvement in pass blocking did O'Brien revert back to doing what he did the first 3 games against Buffalo and not helping the line as much?
Why can't the interior of our line, which has our 3 best most experienced blockers on it not communicate and pick up simple stunts, and blitzes? Why do they have such a hard time working together in unison in the run game? Fulton and Kelemente didn't struggle with it in their previous stops. Yea sure new team, new system, but 6 weeks in and I have seen no improvement in that regard.
Through 6 weeks our QB has been hit 70 times, next closest team is at 49. They will essentially have to play 3 more games to get their QB hit as many times as Watson has, and I get it Watson has caused a lot of those hits on himself, but he has also escaped a lot more. Again the failings of the team will always fall directly on the shoulders of the HC. It is his job to make sure the coaches under him are coaching properly and getting the players to take to the coaching. We are now seeing 5 years of regression with our oline, and he still employs Devlin who has had 1 line in his entire NFL career who finished with an above average grade, and that Jets line had 3 pro bowlers on it. Devlin has never coached a line that didn't finish in the bottom 20 with penalties which screams poor coaching
There were options. For example, the Patriots traded a third rounder for LT Trent Brown.
For some reason Crennel makes it work and OBrien has excuses
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
They ARE getting help..Mostly Davenport is anyway.... & i already answered your question JB. Watch this video. In 4 of those sacks there is a back on either side that is there to help out with a chip. The other sacks they are in a situation where they have numbers so there are opportunities for combo blocks. They are rarely on an island by themselves or without help in some form..I want you to notice whose side the chip block is mostly on and/or whose side the help is being shaded to.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Crennel couldn't make it work last year though.....The pats were in a totally different situation..for starters they had all their picks. Keep trying, one day you'll get it.
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