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Which off-season moves would you like the Texans to make? (Roster/FA)

Ervin did zilch in limited plays four games. He is a "hope he gets going" player for me. As much as I would be open for trade for Miller I just cannot see Texans moving or cutting him. I go UDFA for backs this off season.
 
badboy said:
Ervin did zilch in limited plays four games. He is a "hope he gets going" player for me. As much as I would be open for trade for Miller I just cannot see Texans moving or cutting him. I go UDFA for backs this off season.
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You are correct. 3rd/4th round picks invested in position last 2 years Unfortunately both those backs suffered season ending injuries that could hurt their careers going forward...
 
I see posts with lots of potential new "ingredients" for our offense.

My question is do these "ingredients" actually fit the recipe the "meal/menu" our head chef is trying to prepare?

Can anyone identify what that meal/menu is supposed to be?

I fully confess that I'm not sure I know what it is.

 
ObsiWan said:
I see posts with lots of potential new "ingredients" for our offense.

My question is do these "ingredients" actually fit the recipe the "meal/menu" our head chef is trying to prepare?

Can anyone identify what that meal/menu is supposed to be?

I fully confess that I'm not sure I know what it is.
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I think BOB would like to cook up some more of the offense that was averaging 35 pts per game. If you want an answer you should go back and look at some of those games.
 
Total aside:

The Cowboys wanted some LB draft bust. They took Emmitt kind of like we took JJ

Emmitt loved Staubach and Payton. Don't know if true but he used to say his first TD was on the Naval field Staubach scored on.
 
steelbtexan said:
I think BOB would like to cook up some more of the offense that was averaging 35 pts per game. If you want an answer you should go back and look at some of those games.
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So all we need is for Watson and Will Fuller to heal up and play like they did during those games and he's set...??

Okay....

So why is this thread necessary again?
 
ObsiWan said:
So all we need is for Watson and Will Fuller to heal up and play like they did during those games and he's set...??

Okay....

So why is this thread necessary again?
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And fix the OL to help lower the odds of Watson getting hurt again. Also wouldn't you agree that the secondary/ST's need a huge upgrade in talent and speed?

Give me your thoughts on what needs to be done in my new SBT offseason plan.
 
steelbtexan said:
I think BOB would like to cook up some more of the offense that was averaging 35 pts per game. If you want an answer you should go back and look at some of those games.
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formula is "get ball in Watson's hand as often and quickly as possible".
 
steelbtexan said:
I think BOB would like to cook up some more of the offense that was averaging 35 pts per game. If you want an answer you should go back and look at some of those games.
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formula is "get ball in Watson's hand as often and quickly as possible".
ObsiWan said:
So all we need is for Watson and Will Fuller to heal up and play like they did during those games and he's set...??

Okay....

So why is this thread necessary again?
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because Fuller and Watson should heal up and play like 2017, the important part is keeping them that way.
 
steelbtexan said:
And fix the OL to help lower the odds of Watson getting hurt again. Also wouldn't you agree that the secondary/ST's need a huge upgrade in talent and speed?

Give me your thoughts on what needs to be done in my new SBT offseason plan.
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okay, we agree the O-line needs improvement. But before I "go shopping" I need to know if O'Brien's offense needs favors pass protection over road grader run blocking types. It would be great if the new guys (draftees or F/As) were really good at both. But is that realistic?
 
ObsiWan said:
okay, we agree the O-line needs improvement. But before I "go shopping" I need to know if O'Brien's offense needs favors pass protection over road grader run blocking types. It would be great if the new guys (draftees or F/As) were really good at both. But is that realistic?
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Yeah, those guys are usually relegated to RD1 or RD2 selections. The Texans should be able to adequately identify OL that are ok in both areas....and with better coaching should help OL prospects improve in both areas over time. Now that's optimism at its finest.
 
ObsiWan said:
okay, we agree the O-line needs improvement. But before I "go shopping" I need to know if O'Brien's offense needs favors pass protection over road grader run blocking types. It would be great if the new guys (draftees or F/As) were really good at both. But is that realistic?
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IMHO, and in today's NFL, I'll take pass pro skills over run block skills.
 
DocBar said:
IMHO, and in today's NFL, I'll take pass pro skills over run block skills.
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I don't disagree at all. But how do those guys mesh with our offense's tendency to want to run between the tackles with guys who aren't power backs? Are they mobile enough to make screens effective?

Does this offense need speedy guys like Fuller who are meant to stretch the field at WR or quick guys like Troy Brown/Wes Welker/Danny Amedola that 'move the chains'?

Do we really need a FB or would you rather that roster spot be given to a ST monster?

I guess what I'm asking is what is this offense's IDENTITY? What kind of "groceries" do we need?

....besides Watson's scrambling
:)
 
ObsiWan said:
I don't disagree at all. But how do those guys mesh with our offense's tendency to want to run between the tackles with guys who aren't power backs? Are they mobile enough to make screens effective?

Does this offense need speedy guys like Fuller who are meant to stretch the field at WR or quick guys like Troy Brown/Wes Welker/Danny Amedola that 'move the chains'?

Do we really need a FB or would you rather that roster spot be given to a ST monster?

I guess what I'm asking is what is this offense's IDENTITY? What kind of "groceries" do we need?

....besides Watson's scrambling
:)
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I don't think anyone knows what the offense's true identity is because its such a mix-mashed haberdashery of suckage minus DW4. I lean away from ZBS because OB and RS have completely blown up a very good ZBS OL and replaced it with the hot garbage we saw in 2017. That makes me think power run game, so get OL that are good pass pro blockers that have the strength to block a power running scheme.

P.S. I would dearly love to see what Kubiak could do with this kid at QB and DHOP and Will V. With the way Kubiak makes all the plays appear the same, it would be a nightmare to try to defend.
 
disaacks3 said:
That's certainly doable, but the question is whether we get more nimble ZBS types or larger "Power" guys.
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The power guys have been garbage. This team had better o-line protection when they were quick and nimble. With all the actions they ran with Watson, it's better to have quicker linemen.
 
ObsiWan said:
I don't disagree at all. But how do those guys mesh with our offense's tendency to want to run between the tackles with guys who aren't power backs? Are they mobile enough to make screens effective?

Does this offense need speedy guys like Fuller who are meant to stretch the field at WR or quick guys like Troy Brown/Wes Welker/Danny Amedola that 'move the chains'?

Do we really need a FB or would you rather that roster spot be given to a ST monster?

I guess what I'm asking is whaat is this offense's IDENTITY? What kind of "groceries" do we need?

....besides Watson's scrambling
:)
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The OL with DB/Brooks/Jones/Newton on it is the type of OL I think they are looking for.

Look at the Pats WR's/TE's and compare them to the Texans. It's a talent thing, Miller being busty really hurt the WR corps. He was supposed to be the Texans version of Edelman. Just like Fiedo was supposed to be the Texans version of Gronk. # Busty for different reasons.

Cooks/Fuller Speed guys.

Hopkins/Hogan Move guys that can get deep.

Amendola-Edleman/Miller- Ellington

Fedio/Gronk there's only one Gronk.
 
leebigeztx said:
The power guys have been garbage. This team had better o-line protection when they were quick and nimble. With all the actions they ran with Watson, it's better to have quicker linemen.
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The scheme was also very different when those guys played. OB/RS purposely dismantled that unit because those players didn't fit what OB/RS wanted. I don't have a clue how it all went down, so I'll lay equal blame at both party's feet.
 
steelbtexan said:
The OL with DB/Brooks/Jones/Newton on it is the type of OL I think they are looking for.

Look at the Pats WR's/TE's and compare them to the Texans. It's a talent thing, Miller being busty really hurt the WR corps. He was supposed to be the Texans version of Edelman. Just like Fiedo was supposed to be the Texans version of Gronk. # Busty for different reasons.

Cooks/Fuller Speed guys.

Hopkins/Hogan Move guys that can get deep.

Amendola-Edleman/Miller- Ellington

Fedio/Gronk there's only one Gronk.
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Then why did they let Brooks and Jones go? Newton has had 1 decent year. I honestly question the ability of this team, front office and coaching staff, to judge and coach up talent. I really like Ellington and think he can make up for whatever Miller is lacking.
 
DocBar said:
Then why did they let Brooks and Jones go? Newton has had 1 decent year. I honestly question the ability of this team, front office and coaching staff, to judge and coach up talent. I really like Ellington and think he can make up for whatever Miller is lacking.
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Simply put, $$$$$, Ricky thought the cap space would be better used elsewhere.

Hopefully this changes with Gaine in charge.
 
steelbtexan said:
The OL with DB/Brooks/Jones/Newton on it is the type of OL I think they are looking for.

Look at the Pats WR's/TE's and compare them to the Texans. It's a talent thing, Miller being busty really hurt the WR corps. He was supposed to be the Texans version of Edelman. Just like Fiedo was supposed to be the Texans version of Gronk. # Busty for different reasons.

Cooks/Fuller Speed guys.

Hopkins/Hogan Move guys that can get deep.

Amendola-Edleman/Miller- Ellington

Fedio/Gronk there's only one Gronk.
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What good is talent without good/great coaching and solid QB play?

Who was Wes Welker when Miami had him? Amendola was CUT by the Cowboys. Both were UDFAs cut by the team that initially picked them up. Cooks was a stud in New Orleans (see Sean Payton/Drew Brees) Edelman didn't break out until his 5th yr in the league when the Pats knew he was ready.

I'll give ya Gronk. He was a stud in college at Arizona. But would Gronk be as effective with Tom Savage or T.J. Yates throwing to him? And how effective was Fuller before Watson started getting him the ball?

Yeah, there's talent but the Pats' coaching staff maximizes it. I wonder if this staff has the chops to maximize the talent that's here.
 
O'Brien is going to truly carry the burden of the Texans success and failure in every aspect of this teams off-season. He got the GM "he" wanted in Brian Gaine, he retained "for his own reasons" Mike Devlin (OL Coach Toledo, TE Coach NYJ, OL Coach NYJ and OL Coach Texans), and appears ready to head into 2018 as the teams HC/OC for a 2nd season.

O'Brien and Gaine will lead the charge this off-season in regards to which team FA's are retained, the cuts that will be needed to free up roster spots and cap money, which FA's would fit team needs and be willing to join the Texans and deciding what their big board is going to look like in the War Room.

I really believe that O'Brien and Gaine know that their OL must be addressed above all else. They are going to have to hit gold in whatever FA acquisitions are signed and rookie OL drafted in RD3 and beyond. Failure to adequately address the OL could lead to a near repeat of the 2017 season.

Personally, I'm tired of watching O'Brien walk up to the podium and announce that the loss of this game is on him and that he needs to coach better to get the Texans across the winning line. O'Brien, you're entering your 5th year as this teams HC and if all these losses are due to your bad coaching, then it may be time for you to exit the NFL HC arena and return to the college game, take a coaching job as OC or QB Coach. I know your goal isn't to toss your team under the bus after a loss but you are not required to stand at the podium and put every loss on your coaching abilities...at some point, fans are going to quit looking at this as you deflecting blame from the players and start taking your "coined" statement as a reflection of your true abilities to lead this team.
 
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ObsiWan said:
What good is talent without good/great coaching and solid QB play?

Who was Wes Welker when Miami had him? Amendola was CUT by the Cowboys. Both were UDFAs cut by the team that initially picked them up. Cooks was a stud in New Orleans (see Sean Payton/Drew Brees) Edelman didn't break out until his 5th yr in the league when the Pats knew he was ready.

I'll give ya Gronk. He was a stud in college at Arizona. But would Gronk be as effective with Tom Savage or T.J. Yates throwing to him? And how effective was Fuller before Watson started getting him the ball?

Yeah, there's talent but the Pats' coaching staff maximizes it. I wonder if this staff has the chops to maximize the talent that's here.
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BB and his staff are simply the absolute best at adapting their system to maximize the strengths and minimize the weakness' of their players. They are geniuses at that. OB hadn't shown that ability until DW4 came along and promptly lost it as soon as DW4 went down.
 
ObsiWan said:
What good is talent without good/great coaching and solid QB play?

Who was Wes Welker when Miami had him? Amendola was CUT by the Cowboys. Both were UDFAs cut by the team that initially picked them up. Cooks was a stud in New Orleans (see Sean Payton/Drew Brees) Edelman didn't break out until his 5th yr in the league when the Pats knew he was ready.

I'll give ya Gronk. He was a stud in college at Arizona. But would Gronk be as effective with Tom Savage or T.J. Yates throwing to him? And how effective was Fuller before Watson started getting him the ball?

Yeah, there's talent but the Pats' coaching staff maximizes it. I wonder if this staff has the chops to maximize the talent that's here.
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We hope Fuller can become what Cooks is.

Hopkins is way better than Hogan, although Hogan is underrated.

Miller was supposed to give BOB his Edelman. Miller has been hurt the entire time he's been here and was during college, so I dont expect much to change.

Ellington was a revelation. But he's still not as good as Amendola. IMHO Amendola has the clutch gene. I do agree with you on coaching when it comes to Amendola, BB know how to use Amendola (Who cant stay healthy all yr.) so that Amendola is good to go for the playoffs.
 
ObsiWan said:
What good is talent without good/great coaching and solid QB play?

Who was Wes Welker when Miami had him? Amendola was CUT by the Cowboys. Both were UDFAs cut by the team that initially picked them up. Cooks was a stud in New Orleans (see Sean Payton/Drew Brees) Edelman didn't break out until his 5th yr in the league when the Pats knew he was ready.

I'll give ya Gronk. He was a stud in college at Arizona. But would Gronk be as effective with Tom Savage or T.J. Yates throwing to him? And how effective was Fuller before Watson started getting him the ball?

Yeah, there's talent but the Pats' coaching staff maximizes it. I wonder if this staff has the chops to maximize the talent that's here.
Click to expand...

We hope Fuller can become what Cooks is.

Hopkins is way better than Hogan, although Hogan is underrated.

Miller was supposed to give BOB his Edelman. Miller has been hurt the entire time he's been here and was during college, so I dont expect much to change.

Ellington was a revelation. But he's still not as good as Amendola. IMHO Amendola has the clutch gene. I do agree with you on coaching when it comes to Amendola, BB know how to use Amendola (Who cant stay healthy all yr.) so that Amendola is good to go for the playoffs.
 
DocBar said:
The scheme was also very different when those guys played. OB/RS purposely dismantled that unit because those players didn't fit what OB/RS wanted. I don't have a clue how it all went down, so I'll lay equal blame at both party's feet.
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WE still don't know what OB wants to do .... neither does he.


Watson saved his job with those 5 weeks of brilliance despite a garbage scheme and OL.
 
ObsiWan said:
What good is talent without good/great coaching and solid QB play?

Who was Wes Welker when Miami had him? Amendola was CUT by the Cowboys. Both were UDFAs cut by the team that initially picked them up. Cooks was a stud in New Orleans (see Sean Payton/Drew Brees) Edelman didn't break out until his 5th yr in the league when the Pats knew he was ready.

I'll give ya Gronk. He was a stud in college at Arizona. But would Gronk be as effective with Tom Savage or T.J. Yates throwing to him? And how effective was Fuller before Watson started getting him the ball?

Yeah, there's talent but the Pats' coaching staff maximizes it. I wonder if this staff has the chops to maximize the talent that's here.
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Ding, ding, ding.

We have a winner.

I’m still waiting on the offensive player(s) to make significant leaps under OB.

Haven’t seen it yet.
 
steelbtexan said:
And wont see it until the OL gets fixed.
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OL players need to be developed too.

Sux a filo, Martin, Davenport...not to mention udfa guys like Lamm...

These are the kinds of guys that need(ed) to develop.

Then a FA guy, who most liked, Jeff Allen comes here and gets worse?
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
OL players need to be developed too.

Sux a filo, Martin, Davenport...not to mention udfa guys like Lamm...

These are the kinds of guys that need(ed) to develop.

Then a FA guy, who most liked, Jeff Allen comes here and gets worse?
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I dont disagree with you.

Allen got hurt.

Davenports development over the next couple of yrs is what I'm keeping an eye on.

The rest of the guys are marginal NFL talents for various reasons. IMHO
 
steelbtexan said:
I dont disagree with you.

Allen got hurt. And moved to a position that if not new, wasn't his best one . I think he showed at the end of the year that he is much better on the left

Davenports development over the next couple of yrs is what I'm keeping an eye on.

The rest of the guys are marginal NFL talents for various reasons. IMHO
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DocBar said:
The scheme was also very different when those guys played. OB/RS purposely dismantled that unit because those players didn't fit what OB/RS wanted. I don't have a clue how it all went down, so I'll lay equal blame at both party's feet.
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So RS all of a sudden decided to get bigger slower lineman on his own?
 
leebigeztx said:
So RS all of a sudden decided to get bigger slower lineman on his own?
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Don't forget, RS was a Denver man where ZBS has lived and breathed for years. OL could be lighter and quicker in this system and therefore picked up later in the draft, then coached up to fit the system. I will always believe the Broncos felt OL were completely interchangeable b/c of their success drafting late and somehow finding success. Now, this system has become much harder to find success with b/c the NFL eliminated the chop-block....players are going to have to be a little bigger and stronger to make this system successful.

I think RS maintained this philosophy in regards to the OL while O'Brien wanted to move to a power blocking scheme. O'Brien's scheme needs big bodied OL who win there battles in a straight-forward approach. This would require RS to identify top talent for O'Brien's blocking system to succeed. Maybe this was a big clashing point in philosophies between RS and O'Brien. RS feels OL can be drafted late and O'Brien thinking the OL may need an earlier commitment in the draft, otherwise he does not have the OL talent to truly incorporate his system.

Personally, I think the offenses being ran in CFB are preparing most their OL to have their ultimate NFL success in a ZBS. O'Brien would be wise to fully embrace the ZBS and find the talent to fill the gaps. The 4 best players on the Texans OL right now, Martin, Mancz, Davenport and Fuller, are players who would be much better in a ZBS. This could help reduce the roll of the teams TE's having to be a 6th OL and could be used more often in the passing game.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
Don't forget, RS was a Denver man where ZBS has lived ...
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That was his point, if you were going to say who was responsible for bigger OL you'd say OB.

Now, this system has become much harder to find success with b/c the NFL eliminated the cut-block..
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Cut blocks have not been eliminated. Chop blocks have which are defined as a player is already engaged by one player and then a 2nd player blocks him at the thigh or lower.
 
Regardless of ZBS/Power OL.

Who did the picking and the priority of the type of talent that was picked is all that really matters. The only 1st rd pick in 15 yrs was DB. That tells you how much the Texans value the OL. I'm not saying that you need 5 1st rders, but when you fail to address the OL like last yr, you can expect 4-12 seasons and it's not really hard to predict.

Look at how talented the Eagles OL is today and where they were picked.
 
steelbtexan said:
Look at how talented the Eagles OL is today and where they were picked.
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Ok, let's do that (2007-17):

Eagles 13 OL - 2 1st, 0 2nd, 1 3rd, 1 4th, 4 5ths, 3 6ths and 2 7ths.

Texans 15 OL - 1 St, 2 2nd, 3 3rd, 2 4ths, 1 5th, 4 6ths and 2 7ths.

That would be 3 picks in the top 3 rounds for the Eagles v. 6 for the Texans (and we know one of those 2nds was the 1st pick of the round).

The Texans have spent more picks and higher.
 
infantrycak said:
Ok, let's do that (2007-17):

Eagles 13 OL - 2 1st, 0 2nd, 1 3rd, 1 4th, 4 5ths, 3 6ths and 2 7ths.

Texans 15 OL - 1 St, 2 2nd, 3 3rd, 2 4ths, 1 5th, 4 6ths and 2 7ths.

That would me 3 picks in the top 3 rounds for the Eagles v. 6 for the Texans (and we know one of those 2nds was the 1st pick of the round).

The Texans have spent more picks and higher.
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Then I guess the Texans trigger man and scouts are for shite at identifying talent.
 
infantrycak said:
Well we had very good OLs until OB got here. Maybe they're just crap at power schemes...and maybe the OL coaches have been a factor.
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I can agree with this in some part b/c the Texans had a very good OL for a period of time. The beginning was shite and since Kubiak's last season, the OL has been shite. But I'm with you on the idea that the Texans should go back to the ZBS not only for the sake of the teams current OL but for the fact that most of today's college OL are better prepared to become OL assets earlier within this type of system.
 
steelbtexan said:
Regardless of ZBS/Power OL.

Who did the picking and the priority of the type of talent that was picked is all that really matters. The only 1st rd pick in 15 yrs was DB. That tells you how much the Texans value the OL. I'm not saying that you need 5 1st rders, but when you fail to address the OL like last yr, you can expect 4-12 seasons and it's not really hard to predict.

Look at how talented the Eagles OL is today and where they were picked.
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Please do. How many 1st or 2nd rd picks they have?
 
The patriots don't have any power linemen either. They run alot of zbs. Nate Solder is a ex-te. Anyone who thinks he can run power at 6'8 300lbs is fooling themselves.
 
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