CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I can't remember who actually reported this, but the Vikings are the 1st true 4-3 D the Texans will have faced.
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Game 5...Extreme test...Minnesota Vikings!
- Thread starter JamTex
- Start date
Minnesota does have the worse rushing attack in the league... if we can keep it a ground game we got in the bag, if we can hold on to the ball
Huge If's by the way
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Its not that i under or overvalue their defense. I don't think our ol and playcalling can surpass theirs. Obviously, i'd love to be wrong.
You should have been on this board when you guys gave up a 1st for Bradford. The folks who were saying you paid too much were the nice ones.
LoL
It made sense to me. Here's my post from back in Sept...
I absolutely saw the necessity and logic in getting Bradford.
hmmmm, maybe I should bump that thread
All roses.....until CnD is talking about him.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
After watching each of the 4 games a couple of times, I can't see a glaring weakness in any of the Vikings units.
It's a really solid team, even with all the injuries.
And guys like Laquon Threadwell and Jarius Wright don't even get to see the field.
The Texans need their A game to have a chance, not impossible, but likely not probable.
Here's hoping for a good game.
JamTex
Hall Of Fame Texans Fan!
Dude. I appreciate your comment, but the Vikings defense is for real.
Their head coach, Mike Zimmer is for real as well. Norv Turner is their offensive coordinator. He's definitely for real. Their defensive coordinator, George Edwards, has been outstanding in his coaching and play calling. Their 4-3 defense is going to be a monumental challenge. Mike Priefer, their special teams coordinator, has really gotten allot out of those special teams. These guys take the ball away.
The one thing that is certain is that this team is good from top to bottom.
It's going to take a great effort from the players, outstanding coaching, no turnovers by the Texans and allot of hoping the ball bounces the Texans way to get a win.
I'm not going to say it's impossible, but the task ahead of the Texans is a very tough one.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
The question is when is the last time Bradford made it through a season without a major injury? How long does the shoulder stand up? And how long until the Vikings make it without having to look for another last-minute QB substitute?..........Maybe not for a long time.........But by past history more realistically some "next Sunday" on the schedule.
2015 NFL Shoulder Bradford sprained shoulder in week 10 and missed two games
2015 NFL Head Bradford went down hard dislocating his shoulder and suffering a concussion in week 10. He missed 3 games
2014 NFL Knee Bradford reinjured his ACL in week 3 of the preseason and is done for the 2014 season
2013 NFL Knee Bradford tore his left ACL in week 7 versus the Panthers. He was put on IR and had to have reconstructive surgery
2011 NFL Ankle Sam Bradford suffered a high ankle sprain on his left ankle. The injury was severe and resulted in him missing the next 5 games.
2009 College Shoulder Sam Bradford upon his return, he reinjured the same shoulder in his first game back and had season-ending surgery on his grade III A/C joint tear resulting in him missing ten games that season.
2009 College Shoulder Sam Bradford injured his right (throwing) shoulder in the season opener and missed three weeks.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
I don't know man, they shut down some top offenses, some elite players, and you still think they're overrated? Tough crowd apparently.
If their schedule to this point consisted of Chicago, Tennessee and KC, maybe you'd have an argument for them being overrated, but they've shut down Aaron Rodgers, Cam Newton and OBJ. If anyone is overrated it's probably the Texans. I mean, shutting down Cutler, Alex Smith, Mariota and Jacoby Brissett is huge right? Oh wait, yeah, they gave up 27 points to an offense led by that 3rd string rookie.
Now, with all of that said, this is the NFL where what you did yesterday means nothing today. See Pittsburgh the last 2 weeks, the Patriots the last 2 weeks, KCs 1-5 start last year, hell, the Texans 1-4 start last year for that matter. It's any given Sunday in this league. Minnesota isn't going to go undefeated....probably. But to say the Vikes D is overrated after the teams and players they've shut down to this point is pretty silly.
That koolaid makes people see strange stuff... like walls melting
sandman
Brexit Advisor
After watching each of the 4 games a couple of times, I can't see a glaring weakness in any of the Vikings units.
It's a really solid team, even with all the injuries.
And guys like Laquon Threadwell and Jarius Wright don't even get to see the field.
The Texans need their A game to have a chance, not impossible, but likely not probable.
Here's hoping for a good game.
How do you not consider their running game a weakness:
@ Titans - 65 yards, 2.3 average
Packers - 30 yards, 1.4 average
@ Panthers - 58 yards, 2.4 average
Giants - 104 yards, 3.2 average
Take away one 25 yard run in the Giants game, and they were 79 yards, 2.5 average
Their overall offense is 2nd to last in the league, and their rushing offense is dead last. Total yards, yards per carry, # of rushing first downs. It's bad.
TheRealJoker
Hall of Fame
Vikings win by not turning the ball over, playing great defense and winning the field position battle on special teams.
If the Texans win the turnover battle and turn them into a team playing from behind they win.
If the Texans win the turnover battle and turn them into a team playing from behind they win.
We're going into week 5.
There's a reason we don't crown the World Champs until after week 17... four weeks after week 17.
If that were the Texans they'd let you know about it. probably even predict they'd never win another game.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Nobody's crowning jack after 4 freaking weeks. Are you serious? And no one is saying jack about anybody being World Champs after 4 weeks. Get ahold of yourself.
Nobody has a crystal ball that sees the future. We're talking about what's already taken place on the field and to say the Vikes D is overrated shows an inability to comprehend what's going on on that field.
The Texans could win 36-3 Sunday but it doesn't mean what the Vikings have done THUS FAR, is them being overrated. They are a top end D that has shut down some top offenses and elite players.
austins23
Hall of Fame
Far from it. The Vikings Defense is why the team is 4-0, not that offense.
And having said that and watching the Texans forever, the Vikings offense will drop 450+ yds and 4 TDs on the Texans D Sunday! ugh...
Defenses are always ahead of Offenses in the NFL early in the season. The Vikings defense, the Broncos defense... they're going to make many offenses look really bad early in the season. Let's see how Greenbay's offense looks in December against that defense.
Offenses will get better over the next 8 weeks, they may figure out the Vikings defense. We don't know.
1 injury may change their defense. The turnover thing may totally flip on them where they aren't getting any & the offense becomes turnover prone.
By the end of the year, New England may have the #1 offense in the league.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
The Eagles offense looks really good with a rookie quarterback - the Carson Wentz wagon has taken off - that doesn't seem to turn the ball over. A lot like Sam Bradford but with a much bigger upside. That Bradford trade was a good deal for both the Eagles and Vikings.
You look at what the Dallas Cowboys are doing with a rookie quarterback in Dak Prescott and it's pretty remarkable in itself. Even the rookie Paxton Lynch looked pretty good in his brief playing time last week with the Broncos.
I know it takes time to grasp an offense but we should start seeing Brock Osweiler playing better football. He should be mentally and physically ahead of some of the talented rookies we're seeing around the league. It's not like the old age of football when young quarterbacks needed a lot of time to improve. You can find rookies these days who have instant success. I'm tired of using "he has to learn" as an excuse. I expect to see good results. Especially for the big money we invested into him!
I thought Brock had looked outstanding early in that game against the Titans. He threw some beautiful passes, big plays to our tight ends and a couple of perfect spirals on our Touchdown drives. But 5 TDs and 6 INTs in 4 games isn't what I was expecting.
I'm hoping to see Brock Osweiler have a great game against a talented Vikings defense on the road inside a very hostile environment (a new stadium we haven't even played in yet). A Vikings defense, which as Speedy alluded to, has shut down some elite players and offense this season. Including the past two league MVPs in Aaron Rogers and Cam Newton.
This will be Osweiler's biggest test up to this point. He failed miserably against a pretty good Patriots defense on the road so I'm a little concerned going into this game. But if the Houston Texans want to become a legitimate Super Bowl contender one day they have to figure out how to beat good teams on the road!!!!
You look at what the Dallas Cowboys are doing with a rookie quarterback in Dak Prescott and it's pretty remarkable in itself. Even the rookie Paxton Lynch looked pretty good in his brief playing time last week with the Broncos.
I know it takes time to grasp an offense but we should start seeing Brock Osweiler playing better football. He should be mentally and physically ahead of some of the talented rookies we're seeing around the league. It's not like the old age of football when young quarterbacks needed a lot of time to improve. You can find rookies these days who have instant success. I'm tired of using "he has to learn" as an excuse. I expect to see good results. Especially for the big money we invested into him!
I thought Brock had looked outstanding early in that game against the Titans. He threw some beautiful passes, big plays to our tight ends and a couple of perfect spirals on our Touchdown drives. But 5 TDs and 6 INTs in 4 games isn't what I was expecting.
I'm hoping to see Brock Osweiler have a great game against a talented Vikings defense on the road inside a very hostile environment (a new stadium we haven't even played in yet). A Vikings defense, which as Speedy alluded to, has shut down some elite players and offense this season. Including the past two league MVPs in Aaron Rogers and Cam Newton.
This will be Osweiler's biggest test up to this point. He failed miserably against a pretty good Patriots defense on the road so I'm a little concerned going into this game. But if the Houston Texans want to become a legitimate Super Bowl contender one day they have to figure out how to beat good teams on the road!!!!
Vikings defense is overrated? One of the best defense minds ever in Mike Zimmer. Top 5 "NT" in Linval Joseph (technically not a nose tackle, but it's essentially what he plays). Top tier defensive end rotation, 2 outstanding linebackers, and really good depth at corner. Oh and a top 3 safety in the league.
They aren't overrated at all. They haven't allowed more than 17 points in the last 8 games going back to last year.
They aren't overrated at all. They haven't allowed more than 17 points in the last 8 games going back to last year.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
Having an All-Pro left tackle can greatly help any offense. I'm very excited to have Duane Brown back on Sunday against the Vikings. The Texans offensive line is about to get a lot better, and they should make huge strides offensively moving forward.
Brock Osweiler now has a lot of offensive talent around him. He has all the tools around him to greatly succeed at the quarterback position. I honestly believe the Texans offense is more than capable of becoming one of the better ones in the entire league. I'm patiently waiting for them to take off. I hate being stuck in quicksand. Bill O'Brien feels the same way. Which is why he took it upon himself to take over the play-calling duties prior to the last game. O'Brien is holding himself accountable for how good our offense can become moving forward.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
I sort of feel bad for Mike Zimmer and the way his once promising career as a coach has evolved. He tasted a lot of success early on but as of these days I don't think he's been part of a playoff win in years. It seems like he is very under-appreciated around the league. I grew up idolizing Mike Zimmer when he coached for the Dallas Cowboys from 1994 to 2006. He won a Super Bowl ring in 1995 when the Cowboys defeated the Steelers in Super Bowl 30 on that coaching staff.
I was a hardcore Dallas Cowboys fan when the Oilers had left Houston from 1997 to 2001. So I did follow him closely for those five seasons, in particular. He was a defensive backs coach early on and then the Cowboys defensive coordinator his last handful of years there.
He is a great defensive mind, no doubt, but he hasn't won a playoff game in like FOREVER! That is why I sort of feel he doesn't get the credit he deserves. It doesn't help that he was coaching the Bengals defense for so many years. They haven't won a playoff game since 1991. But even last year with the Vikings his defense was outstanding but they still coughed up that playoff game against Russell Wllson and the Seahawks because their special teams is so unreliable. Their kicker Blair Walsh can't make a chip shot field goal. He's also missed a lot of extra points, so far this season and also last season.
His last year as the Cowboys defensive coordinator he was also part of that infamous playoff game that was on the cusp of being a big playoff win but turned into a heartbreaking loss because of that "Tony Romo botched snap" on another chip shot field goal attempt that lost a wild-card game against the same Seattle Seahawks a decade earlier. LOL, it's so mind-boggling and frustrating. And I'm sure Mike Zimmer hasn't forgotten about those playoff losses, that I can't help but laugh it off these days. None of that is even in his control (special teams).
Mike Zimmer is a guy I've been watching for a long time. He is the one calling the Vikings defensive plays during the game. It's going to be a real treat watching Bill O'Brien call the offensive plays against him. We rarely see opposing head coaches directly calling plays against each other.
Mike Zimmer, man, I respect that guy so much. He's been one of my favorite coaches in the game for a long time. I just feel bad for the way his career has turned out. His defenses can rank #1 in the league and produce all the great stats. But people judge a great defense by playoff success. When we think great defenses we think 2015 Broncos, 2000 Ravens, 1985 Bears. All of them had won Super Bowls.
A guy like Mike Zimmer, I tend to associate with a lot of bad luck in the playoffs. Not just because he was stuck on a Bengals team which couldn't win a playoff game (lost two wild-card games to the Houston Texans for that matter) but coaching the Vikings and Cowboys, like I had mentioned, his special teams let him down! We're talking about short-distance field goals that are shorter than extra point distance.
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Texansballer74
The Marine
So the Rookie scored all the Patriots points? The man barely had over 100 yards passing. So please let's stop using that narrative that a rookie beat us. The Patriots beat us because they were well prepared and they didn't turn the ball over like our special teams did.
Now to your premises, yes the Viking defense is a beast. There is a very good chance we will struggle to move the ball on them. But on any given Sunday anything can happen.
It all depends on the organization's philosophy.
Some put winning now above winning long term.
Take Andrew Luck & RGIII for example. Instead of teaching them to play the pro game, their organizations focused on winning "now." Going into year five, neither of them know how to run an NFL offense. They've been getting by on their athleticism & conforming their offenses to them.
The NFL isn't going to allow that to be successful for too long. It becomes increasingly difficult for that talent to beat NFL defenses. You're playing two man... maybe three against eleven. Odds are against you.
So, imo, that's what we're seeing with Philly & Dallas.
May have been what we saw in the first qtr against the Titans. Bill O'Brien grabbed the plays Osweiler was most comfortable with & scripted the first three series.
But overall, it's clear that Osweiler & Bradford have been trying to learn an offense. Where the young guns have just been playing football.
If that makes any sense.
I think Andrew Luck would be nigh unstoppable had they spent more time teaching him how to direct an offense, instead of maximizing his natural ability.
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Cloak... aren't the first two things on your list from the same play?? Crunched his shoulder and banged his head on the same tackle.
Are we padding the list?
Anyway, thing is, Bradford is healthy now.
What happens to him after this week isn't our concern. How well a currently healthy Bradford will play this coming Sunday is.
And I still say it made sense for the Vikes to make that move with the season opener little more than a week away. E'erbody say "they paid too much". Nobody ever offers up what they should have done - at that point in the year - that would have been better. ....unless you think they stood pat with Shaun Hill.
And I still say it made sense for the Vikes to make that move with the season opener little more than a week away. E'erbody say "they paid too much". Nobody ever offers up what they should have done - at that point in the year - that would have been better. ....unless you think they stood pat with Shaun Hill.
Why are you still arguing this with yourself?
Nothing against you or your team.
My overrated comment is just about this game & it's directed more at our fans.
The Vikings have a good defense. We do too. The difference will be our offenses penchant for turn overs & your teams ability to take care of the football.
If we can win the turnover battle, get some short fields & take care of the football, we can win this game.
Right now, the points, yards, third down defensive stats of both teams are too close to differentiate who's "better" with only four games played. That's all I'm saying.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
I agree. Hopefully we can keep it a close game on Sunday where one or two big plays is enough for the Texans to win this game. Not turning the ball over will be our best chance to keep this game close because the Vikings are +10 in turnover differential this season. A big reason they are 4-0.
If it's a close game in the fourth quarter that will put all the pressure on their unreliable kicking game. I think Blair Walsh is more than capable of missing a costly field goal and extra point in this game, but that won't matter if it's a blowout game for the Vikings. We have to be in a one score game going into the fourth quarter for us to steal this tough road game.
We better not come out flat like we did in that road game against the Patriots. I don't want to lose to another good team on the road, 27-0. I'm hoping to see a damn good football game on Sunday between a 4-0 Vikings team and a 3-1 Texans team.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Good catch, Obsiwan. I hurriedly put together the list and I forgot to delete one of the two statements at the top.Cloak... aren't the first two things on your list from the same play?? Crunched his shoulder and banged his head on the same tackle.
Are we padding the list?
Anyway, thing is, Bradford is healthy now.
What happens to him after this week isn't our concern. How well a currently healthy Bradford will play this coming Sunday is.
And I still say it made sense for the Vikes to make that move with the season opener little more than a week away. E'erbody say "they paid too much". Nobody ever offers up what they should have done - at that point in the year - that would have been better. ....unless you think they stood pat with Shaun Hill.
I am not disagreeing with the Vikings' decision to obtain Bradford under the "emergency" situation they found themselves in.
But his shoulders and his knee(s) are a concern even in the short term. As relates to ACL injuries, re-injury to the same ACL-repaired knee is ~5-10% (he's already suffered one re-injury)........and contralateral ACL injuries occur in ~15% of those suffering an ACL injury............within 22 months.................and these are not statistics for professional athletes, let alone NFL players.
So we should knock him around a bit....?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Take him down to ground.........should help his shoulder issues.....So we should knock him around a bit....?
Make him run around should help his ACL issues........
Well Denver's offense as quite a bit ahead of Carolina's offense in the SuperB Owl last yr.
Somebody tell big Vince that Bradford said his barbeque sucks.Take him down to ground.........should help his shoulder issues.....
Make him run around should help his ACL issues........
Yes, Denver's offense against Carolina's defense was better than Carolina's offense against Denver's defence.
Why does the spell checker let me get away with typing defense... but not defence?
It's american and not english
Matt HammondVerified account@MattHammondShowlosses by 17 points or more (since 2014):
Texans: 4
Vikings: 5
Matt HammondVerified account@MattHammondShowBill O'Brien hasn't been blown out more than Mike Zimmer either
Matt HammondVerified account@MattHammondShowaverage penalties, yards, (average NFL rank in each), since 2014:
Texans: 6.1, 53.7 (9, 11)
Vikings: 6.2, 55.2 (10, 12)
Matt HammondVerified account@MattHammondShowrecord vs. playoff teams (2014 to 2016):
Texans: 2-8
Vikings: 3-9
record vs. teams over .500 (2014 to 2016):
Texans: 4-10
Vikings: 3-10
I've been saying 2016 is too small a sample size to say how "good" either team is. Or how "good" the Vikings defense is.
2016 is a different animal, I agree with you, but it hasn't played out. Looking at a bigger sample size, these two coaches the past two years with these two teams.... they're more alike than not.
I think there's some truth to that, but I also think 4 games is a pretty decent sample size especially considering who the teams have played. I know Carolina is 1-3, but they looked pretty darn good against the 49ers. Packers will be a playoff team and the Giants aren't exactly awful.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
So why even watch the 1st half of the season if nothing means anything?
Don't get caught up in the stats.
They can be skewed for various reasons.
What if I tell you that the Vikings had A.P. and the starting LT Kalil in the first two games and their rushing stats looked awful?
You will probably assume that their stats would look worse in the next two games, when they lost those two key guys.
That wasn't exactly the case.
Their rushing attack should be worse, but it wasn't.
So does that mean AP was a terrible RB and Kalil was terrible at run blocking?
NO and No.
AP was just trying to do much.
Kalil wasn't great, but he wasn't terrible.
There are several reasons besides AP trying to do too much that bring down their rushing average.
1. They were playing teams that are good against the run or stacking the box to defend the run.
The Vikings don't mind losing some yards in the running game to set up their play action pass.
2. They have had situations in each game where they were ahead and looked to kill the clock in the second half.
(Runs at the end of the first half shouldn't "count" in the stats either.)
3. They have had short yardage situations where all they need is to convert against a stacked box.
4. They have been using different combinations on the Oline with a new RT and a new OG, then a new LT with Kalil down after two games.
They move their Oline around on unbalanced lines, employing double-teaming often. When guys haven't been working together on the double-team block, they aren't in sync right off the bat.
Also, remember that I only said no "GLARING" weakness.
A glaring weakness is when the offensive line continues not to open hole with the same body count near the LOS .
It's not the case here.
A glaring weakness is a guy not named AP trying to do too much or can't find the proper hole.
(These guys would be benched or cut.)
Unless they run into more injuries, their line will only get better.
AP's number was the worst among their RBs; don't forget that.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Not sure I've ever seen you put that much effort into defending a bad stat/perceived weakness of the Texans. Literally the Vikings are perfect. Why are we even playing this game on Sunday?
It seems some here (not pointing fingers at anyone) want to get their "I told you so" in ahead of the fact
Look up threads on Chris Myers, Kareem Jackson, and Arian Foster for a start.
And I never said the Vikings are perfect.
It's annoying when people want to put words in my mouth to prove whatever the point they try to make.
JamTex
Hall Of Fame Texans Fan!
Texans set to face a challenge in Vikings defense
The Texans face a stiff challenge this Sunday in the Minnesota defense.....
The Texans face a stiff challenge this Sunday in the Minnesota defense.....
JWLCASPER
Waterboy
We as fans have built in information to NFL seasons and sometimes have a hard time adjusting our view of certain teams on a year to year basis. Carolina 2016 gets whipped by 2015 Carolina. 2016 Green Bay gets handled by 2012-2014 Green Bay and tosses up with 2015. Oakland should always lose to Baltimore when coming east. The only constants I've seen really is the suckitude of Cleveland, and the Patriots because of the genius head coach and top 3 quarterback of all time. But as football fans we have these risidual images of teams. The Vikings are very good, and I am not trying to take away their 4-0 start which with no Teddy and no AP is very impressive. But Green Bay and Rodgers aren't peak Green Bay/Rodgers we all remember, Carolina is far worse this year, Tennessee was right with Minnesota until mistakes killed them just like they were with us, and New York is possibly the worst team in the NFC East. 4-0 is impressive and all the credit to Zimmer and his staff. But to act like we are about to play the 85 Bears defense with the 1998 Vikings offense is absurd. The Vikings are in the same tier as the Texans until proven otherwise, and that is Playoff Bound team who needs to figure out how to show up when it counts. And no matter what happens in this game a non conference non divisional game in October isn't make or break time for either squad. I stand by my earlier prediction of 24-14 Houston.
There's a big difference between "don't mean anything" & "too early to say"
Remember the Falcons last season? They started much differently than they finished. How many times did it look like the Raiders or Lions were on pace to get to 8-8 only to end up 4-12 or 5-11? Bengals beat the Ravens twice in the regular season, beat the Steelers, win the division, but lose to us in the play offs, so it means nothing.
+2 turn over differential per game is not likely to be sustained. Will the Vikings be able to maintain that effort when their offense goes 3 & out? We don't know. They've been able to score off turnovers.
Our defense hasn't given up any points when our offense turns over the ball.