I agree with this as long as OB doesn't do a Dom Capers/Chris Palmer number on the rookie QB. Let him hold a clipboard and learn how to be a pro and read a defense. Especially blitzes.
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What to do in 1st round?
- Thread starter Seegara
- Start date
I'd love nothing more for their to be a QB in this draft that the Texans would trade this draft & next to get. Well, I'd love it more if they got that guy without having to trade this draft & next to get... & more than that, I'd love it if they got that guy without having to trade this year's draft & next and he turns out to be everything they thought he could & more.
Like you said though, we most likely won't be happy with how they address the position. Just like they haven't ignored the position the last two years, we just don't like how they went about it.
Instead of drafting a QB in the first three rounds, they took a flyer on Mallett, a "first round talent who just needed an opportunity to prove what he could do. IMO, they botched that situation. The failure is as much on the coaches as it was on Mallett.
In 2015 Hoyer was "the answer." I can't explain or defend it, but no doubt in my mind, O'b thought Hoyer was going to solve the problem.
So we're looking to 2016. There's no Luck, no Winston... no prototypical prospect that checks all the boxes. Can Goff be the next Rogers? Maybe, but what are you willing to give up to get him? Because of the need & value of the position, most people believe he might go in the top 5. Paxton Lynch... most here hate him though he's highly rated.
Carson Wentz... I'm not very good at projecting QBs to the NFL, but I don't see much difference between him, Lynch, & Prescott. Prescott will probably be there outside of the 1st & if it weren't for the need, how many would be projecting Wentz in the first?
& I still like Cook & Hogan. To me, it looks like they've got everything you want, but nobody wants them.
Again, if we take a QB in the first round, I'll be thrilled. But I wouldn't have a problem if they get (& hit) on an OL, TE, RB, WR.. & get Cook, Hogan, Wentz, or Prescott in the 2nd or 3rd. It's not just the QB position that's been "ignored" it's been the offensive side of the ball.
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infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I understand and am not against sitting QBs for awhile but I wouldn't bench him just to bench him - individual assessment. Many QBs do just fine starting immediately.
I completely agree, but how many do just fine with back up or rookie LT's? That makes OT potentially GREAT BIG HOLE 1b with Brown's injury. No way does Newton translate to LT or Clarke provide the answer.
HTownandDown
Practice Squad
I agree. Take a stud tackle first round.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I want those attributes as well. WHO do you think fits the bill?
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I can't see Hack in the first and I think the fourth or lower is far more likely.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I think we just got through doing that with Fitz and Hoyer playing the role of veteran and Savage in the role of developmental pick.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I think when you're drafting at 22 like the texans and you have a qb rated from mid 1st to mid 2nd, you draft him at 22. Especially with qbs, you want that 5th yr. Maybe they move down a couple of spots, but if he rated from 16-48 you draft him.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
He's the classic looks great,looks terrible prospect. There are times when he looks like a top shelf passer, but there are times when he looks bad. I'm not a fan of hack, I think Lynch is going to be there close enough.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Hopefully, obrien's experience i. The past two years will give him insight to whether Hack has what is needed to succeed. If so, we will benefit. However, if he is naive enough to simply rely on the limited success they had in college, then we are in trouble.
Myself, i can not discern whether Hack has what is needed to succeed as an NFL qb. I have seen signs, but I have seen lots that I dont like- particularly, some very lazy footwork.
Not saying I want Hack to be the pick, but footwork is one of the easier things to improve.
Number19
Hall of Fame
Just going by memory without a link, I read that there were questions about his accuracy, compared with his peers. I seem to recall Hack was toward the bottom of the list.
You lose accuracy if your footwork isn;t correct. Watch Palmer tonight that's what Hack can become. Palmer has great footwork.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
From my perspective, in games where his line really breaks down, he starts to rush his footwork and his passes start to become inconsistent. There are times where he is hitting his back foot and is already being sacked, he needs to improve with pressure in his face, but the pressure he sustained some games was insurmountable
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I haven't seen much of hack and maybe there's a sample size elsewhere to prove me wrong but i saw a qb with...
-a poor supporting cast (by default maybe his fault)
-sloppy mechanics
- sloppier feet
- zero pocket presence
- limited command of the offense (as in a guy who couldn't get to his 3rd read on any given play)
-an above average arm but not a superior arm
-average accuracy
-he needs a clean pocket to succeed
-average mobility at best
-not a gamer who thrives when necessary to win a game.
He looked like a guy who needs other players to make him better. Not a qb who makes other players better. I'd give him a 3rd round grade at best...and that's pushing it in a qb driven league. I will not be happy if we draft him before the 4th round.
-a poor supporting cast (by default maybe his fault)
-sloppy mechanics
- sloppier feet
- zero pocket presence
- limited command of the offense (as in a guy who couldn't get to his 3rd read on any given play)
-an above average arm but not a superior arm
-average accuracy
-he needs a clean pocket to succeed
-average mobility at best
-not a gamer who thrives when necessary to win a game.
He looked like a guy who needs other players to make him better. Not a qb who makes other players better. I'd give him a 3rd round grade at best...and that's pushing it in a qb driven league. I will not be happy if we draft him before the 4th round.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Not pretending to know the exact outcome of his potential return...........but there is no way we will have any better idea of what his future may hold by the time the Draft comes around.
I guess this puts OT near the top of the draft wish list. It was near the top of mine before Brown's injury.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Fair enough doc. Your opinion is gold with me so i'll put more value on the tackle position then i did. still doesn't outweigh qb for me.
While I wouldn't be terribly upset if we took an OT first round again, I don't know if I would have the 5th or 6th OT rated higher than the #3 or 4 QB or the #1 RB. Surely we have to use our 1st at one of the 3 spots. That is picking at #22, a trade up to get the #1 or 2 QB would be preferable
kingtexan
All Pro
In this draft yes. There isnt one QB that you know will pan out. If we hit on one of the two its worth it. If we miss on two its a bad draft. If we hit on both we have trade bait. You think the Redskins were wrong to draft Cousins after drafting RGIII? We need to find that Brady needle in a haystack and we have additional picks this year from trades. Rick and BoB have proven not to be able to judge talent, so drafting two isnt a far fetched idea. Maybe, just maybe those two gimps get lucky.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
We do not have additional picks. We have different ones.
Seegara
Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
I see something I don't like in his delivery.
Looked like a pretty good delivery to me. Maybe you're just posting stuff to make it look like you know anything at all about anything at all and, as usual, it's a fail fest. You should consider being more of a reader than a poster. It just makes sense.
Such as? Expand on that and impart your wisdom (or lack thereof)
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Agreed. When I have watched him play, he tends to be lazy with his feet... Which leads to a whole host of accuracy and timing issues in the pocket. It is something quite fixable, but it is alarming to see sloppiness like that from a college junior. I coach middle school and high school football (6 man), and I expect my quarterbacks to be much more consistent with their base than what I see from Hack.
ROO
Tweak the offense already!
Being new to posting here, I certainly don't want to upset the regulars here, but when I watched the Hackenberg video, I too noticed that his throwing motion wasn't exactly textbook. That doesn't mean that he can't be a good NFL quarterback, and if the Texans draft him, I will certainly be excited and hoping that he has many great years here.
What I noticed is that he seems to open up his upper body too soon as his arm is coming forward. This makes it seem like his upper body is staying back too far upon release. Now, I am certainly not a quarterback throwing motion expert, so take the above with a grain of salt.
I googled "Hackenberg throwing motion" and ran across lots of conflicting opinions. I took the liberty of posting some of the comments, both good and bad. I didn't take the time to post all the sources, my point being that some other folks have certainly seen some issues with Hackenberg's motion. On the other hand, plenty of folks have praised his throwing motion too.
and problems with his throwing mechanics
He throws with such effortless motion
making at times, poor mechanics with a tendency to throw flat footed
nobody should complain about his throwing motion
doesn’t step into the throw or follow through.
he has a great arm, and his mechanics are solid as well
Most notably, he showed frequent release issues (letting go of the ball late in his motion), a lack of weight transfer when throwing deep and the tendency to land harshly at the top of his drop, leading to disruption in his coordinated movement
Overall, he has a good and easy throwing motion that has no wasted movement.
and he doesn't follow through completely on his throwing motion.
His large and powerful frame and his natural throwing motion
released the ball early in his throwing motion.
you can see the fluidity and ease of his throwing motion
His throwing motion isn't ideal, and his footwork is iffy.
Has a pretty good release and doesn't look like he labors too much with his throwing motion
He’s falling off the throw, not towards his target.
His throwing motion is quick and efficient, with little windup or opportunity to be disrupted
What I noticed is that he seems to open up his upper body too soon as his arm is coming forward. This makes it seem like his upper body is staying back too far upon release. Now, I am certainly not a quarterback throwing motion expert, so take the above with a grain of salt.
I googled "Hackenberg throwing motion" and ran across lots of conflicting opinions. I took the liberty of posting some of the comments, both good and bad. I didn't take the time to post all the sources, my point being that some other folks have certainly seen some issues with Hackenberg's motion. On the other hand, plenty of folks have praised his throwing motion too.
and problems with his throwing mechanics
He throws with such effortless motion
making at times, poor mechanics with a tendency to throw flat footed
nobody should complain about his throwing motion
doesn’t step into the throw or follow through.
he has a great arm, and his mechanics are solid as well
Most notably, he showed frequent release issues (letting go of the ball late in his motion), a lack of weight transfer when throwing deep and the tendency to land harshly at the top of his drop, leading to disruption in his coordinated movement
Overall, he has a good and easy throwing motion that has no wasted movement.
and he doesn't follow through completely on his throwing motion.
His large and powerful frame and his natural throwing motion
released the ball early in his throwing motion.
you can see the fluidity and ease of his throwing motion
His throwing motion isn't ideal, and his footwork is iffy.
Has a pretty good release and doesn't look like he labors too much with his throwing motion
He’s falling off the throw, not towards his target.
His throwing motion is quick and efficient, with little windup or opportunity to be disrupted
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
Yup i see it to. It's not as obvious on short throws but there's a hitch. His passing motion is a whiplash and his elbow is tucked into his body awkwardly. For a guy his height he throws like a 6 footer. Definitely not a traditional over the top motion.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
What I do like, though, is that he is very calm inside the pocket, even when he feels pressure and he instinctively tries to step up or slide away from the pressure instead of bailing out.
The thought of those options makes me ill.
If they don't believe in this crop of QB's ....
Well ... Do we really trust these clowns to make that decision.
Same dudes that tried to sell us on the idea that Fitz & Hoyer were what we needed ?!
Same clowns that drafted Clowney & passed on some good QB's in that draft when the need was dire at that point?
Seegara
Guitar Picker, Dog Lover, Woodworker
(Of course, she never watches the games now.)Is this bad? I mean do you really want her in your man cave
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
If anyone questions doing whatever it takes to get their QB in the first round or via trade.....go watch the first 2 INTs Hoyer threw vs the Chiefs. The pick on the goal line was bad, but the first one had me puzzled. I rewound a couple times after and couldn't, for the life of me, figure out wtf he was trying to do.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/0ap3000000619895/Eric-Berry-intercepts-Brian-Hoyer
http://www.nfl.com/videos/kansas-city-chiefs/0ap3000000619895/Eric-Berry-intercepts-Brian-Hoyer
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Here is the thing, though. Drafting a QB high doesn't make him good. There are entire drafts that come and go without any QBs developing into quality NFL starters (but you won't find any drafts without a handful of QBs drafted in rounds 1 and 2.
Because the NFL has turned into such a QB-centric league, teams are desperate to find the next great one. That desperation (not to mention pressure from the fan base, ownership, etc..) pushes QBs up draftboards. So, while I certainly want the Texans to be focused on upgrading the QB position, I don't want them throwing draft picks and time into a player they shouldn't. I would rather see them being aggressive and creative in the free agent and/or trade market this year (unless there is someone they identify, legitimately in the draft).
Is there a way to get Kurt Cousins? (Washington may franchise him... even if they do, a sign and trade could be discussed if the Texans want him and believe in him)?
What about Osweiler? His fate is likely tied to things that will happen the next three weeks.
Is Sam Bradford worth a relatively short but expensive deal?
Are one of these flawed but very talented athletes primed for redemption/reclamation?: Kaepernick, RGIII, Manziel.
What about Tannehill? He could be traded for.
Is there a potential trade deal worth exploring for: Phillip Rivers, Matt Stafford, or Drew Brees?
How about diamond in the rough candidates? EJ Manuel, Gabbert, Glennon
Would Cincinnati take the 22nd overall pick for AJ McCarron?
I fully recognize that a number of those options listed above might make you throw up in your mouth a little. Me too. However, my point is still valid. The free agent/trade market for quarterbacks this off-season is as close to flooded as it will ever be. Therefore, much like with Schaub in 2007, there will be opportunities for a couple discerning teams to exploit it. The worst case scenario for the Texans this off-season would be to ignore this market, determined to draft their future QB, and then discover there isn't a QB in this draft class they can reach that is worth drafting in the first round or two.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Agreed. I am very excited about the state this organization is in, at this moment, if they are as determined as it appears to solve the quarterback issue... They have the following things working for them:
1. A lot of cap flexibility (after cutting some dead weight, they will likely be somewhere around $35 - $50 million below the cap): So, we can take on a high QB salary... it also means that we can fill a number of positional needs with quality free agents, allowing the team the option of trading away 2016 draft picks.
2. Significant combination of talent, youth, and depth throughout much of the defense. The defense has a few holes to fill, but it doesn't require an infusion of talent. Therefore, primary resources can be spent on offense: QB.
3. We still have all of our early round future draft picks.
4. In addition to a potentially rich free agent market for QBs (depending on what happens with Osweiler, Cousins, RGIII, Kap), teams with quality QBs are likely to be in the mood to listen to trade talks.
Grams
Veteran
Thorsson
Waterboy
Hoyer looked like a washed-up boxer with shot reflexes, and BOB looked like a horrible trainer who didn't know when to throw in the towel and take his fighter out of there.
1. True
2. I see the youth but you're overestimating the depth.
3. True
4. Hope you're right
Texans 2016 1st and 2nd
Texans 2017 2nd
Texans 2017 2nd
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I want a franchise QB right damn now. Will you take a Pringle for him?