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Jared Goff

bah007 said:
Seems to me the disagreement was about Coker, not Goff.

Not sure where anyone was bullied or called names either. Apparently civil discussion these days is to get offended when people who disagree with you bring facts to the discussion.
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Going full martyr is the trendy thing to do in the face of disagreement ...
 
bah007 said:
Seems to me the disagreement was about Coker, not Goff.

Not sure where anyone was bullied or called names either. Apparently civil discussion these days is to get offended when people who disagree with you bring facts to the discussion.
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For more, accurate and real facts watch the Saban interview, some of your facts...they will be a changing.....there will be NO INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS.
 
Texian said:
For more, accurate and real facts watch the Saban interview, some of your facts...they will be a changing.....there will be NO INDEPENDENT CONTRACTORS.
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I made no mention of whether Lane Kiffin or Nick Saban is in charge of the offense, which is why you brought up the interview. It discredits nothing that I said.

I provided actual facts that discredit what you had to say about the performance of the offense as it transitioned from Blake Sims to Jake Coker.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Who's fallen madly in love with Goff? Where in the last few pages has that been shown?
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Start with Page 1, it doesn't take long to make a list.

bah007 said:
Seems to me the disagreement was about Coker, not Goff.

Not sure where anyone was bullied or called names either. Apparently civil discussion these days is to get offended when people who disagree with you bring facts to the discussion.
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I'm not sure how there can be this much discontented discussion because I said Coker was lump of coal that could be a diamond in the rough who could be worthy of consideration as a mid to late rd draft pick.
 
Texian said:
Start with Page 1, it doesn't take long to make a list.
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I'm not starting with page 1. Page 1 isn't where this conversation has become this current conversation.

So I'll try again, where in the last few pages, in this current conversation, has anyone shown to be madly fallen in love with Goff?
 
Texian said:
What we have here is I clearly have ruffled a few feathers with some of those who have fallen madly in love with Jared Goff. Thou shalt not speak ill of Jared Goff or you will be bullied and called names because they disagree. So it is in the draftnik world which we have chosen where not one opinion is worth a cup of coffee and it's only November folks.....so much for civil discussion.
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Come on man. The swerve in this discussion had nothing to do with Jared Goff.
 
Mollywhopper said:
I'm not starting with page 1. Page 1 isn't where this conversation has become this current conversation.

So I'll try again, where in the last few pages, in this current conversation, has anyone shown to be madly fallen in love with Goff?
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Page 1 is where you can begin to find the answers to your question. Whether you choose to start there is certainly your prerogative. If you want the answers you will.

WolverineFan said:
Come on man. The swerve in this discussion had nothing to do with Jared Goff.
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Maybe not for you, no, but for a few others, yes. It started with post #154, where I said I thought Goff disappointing, not to be a 1st rd pick and not ready for the NFL. My very last sentence was an oh by the way I am warming to idea that IF the Texans go day 2 or 3 QB, Jake Coker has peeked my interest.

Now I ask you, does that statement about peeking my interest, is it really strong enough to bring out such strong hate and vitriol for someone who would be a late rd draft pick. Usually not UNLESS of course there are underlying motives (my attacks on Goff) to cause the Coker attacks. It really isn't so much of an attack on Coker as it is an attack on me by those who became disgruntled by my attack on Goff and they took it personally. This is something that happened all the time with Teddy Bridgewater. I'm used to it. I will say that your posts have been an honest forthright discussions and debate with no underlying motives.
 
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Texian said:
Page 1 is where you can begin to find the answers to your question. Whether you choose to start there is certainly your prerogative. If you want the answers you will.
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No, the question I asked is relevant to the conversation that was taking place yesterday/today, not at the beginning of this thread, which had to do with whose feathers you think you currently ruffled of which were currently supposed to be so madly in love with Goff. I get that you're trying to deflect it, because you don't have a good answer because you grabbed that statement completely out of thin air to try and make some weak argument that doesn't really exist.

You can stop that now, you're better than that.
 
bah007 said:
False. Alabama's offense is averaging 50 less passing yards per game this year compared to what they did with noodle arm Blake Sims last year.
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Not endorsing Coker whatsoever. But losing Amari Cooper had to make a major impact on the offense.

Texian said:
My very last sentence was an oh by the way I am warming to idea that IF the Texans go day 2 or 3 QB, Jake Coker has peeked my interest.
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The Texans are way past being able to take another flyer on a late round project. They have to find a franchise QB. Be it Goff or someone else.
 
Mollywhopper said:
No, the question I asked is relevant to the conversation that was taking place yesterday/today, not at the beginning of this thread, which had to do with whose feathers you think you currently ruffled of which were currently supposed to be so madly in love with Goff. I get that you're trying to deflect it, because you don't have a good answer because you grabbed that statement completely out of thin air to try and make some weak argument that doesn't really exist.

You can stop that now, you're better than that.
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Here is the question you asked, "Who's fallen madly in love with Goff?" You can find those answers beginning on page one.
 
Lucky said:
Not endorsing Coker whatsoever. But losing Amari Cooper had to make a major impact on the offense.


The Texans are way past being able to take another flyer on a late round project. They have to find a franchise QB. Be it Goff or someone else.
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I couldn't agree with you more about finding a franchise QB.

You also you make a very good point about Amari Cooper. I wonder how much better Coker might be if he did have Cooper's 124 receptions, 1700 yds and his 16 TDs from last year???? also worth mentioning, Alabama started this year with 9 NEW starters on offense.

And for the record Coker has peeked my interest. Since the Tenn game I will be following his progress more closely.
 
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Mollywhopper said:
There are 10,880 scholarship athletes every year in the FBS alone. There are maybe 500 job openings in the NFL every year. So no, most aren't there to play football. Most realize it's the last time they will in fact play football and they are there to get a degree, with football as the grease to the wheels of that opportunity.
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There are scholarship athletes and then there are football players for high profile teams. It does get confusing and I do need to narrow the target to those.
 
Lucky said:
Not endorsing Coker whatsoever. But losing Amari Cooper had to make a major impact on the offense....
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I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I also didn't mean to imply that Coker is solely at fault for the drop in production.

I was only commenting on the assertion that "Alabama's offense has been able to do more this year because of Coker's arm".

Regardless of where the blame lies, that statement is patently false. That's why I addressed it. I don't even dislike Coker. I think he definitely has a NFL arm, but I do question his other tools.
 
bah007 said:
I didn't mean to imply otherwise. I also didn't mean to imply that Coker is solely at fault for the drop in production.

I was only commenting on the assertion that "Alabama's offense has been able to do more this year because of Coker's arm".

Regardless of where the blame lies, that statement is patently false. That's why I addressed it. I don't even dislike Coker. I think he definitely has a NFL arm, but I do question his other tools.
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How is Coker different than Savage?

BTW, I like Coker alot, but with where the Texans are as a franchise I dont think I would spend more than a late rd pick on him.
 
steelbtexan said:
How is Coker different than Savage?

BTW, I like Coker alot, but with where the Texans are as a franchise I dont think I would spend more than a late rd pick on him.
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I'm not sure he's much different at all really. He has better pocket awareness and takes less sacks, but Savage is more precise with his throws.

If I'm the Texans I wouldn't waste my time on him. I think it's time to hit QB with a high pick.
 
Texian said:
Page 1 is where you can begin to find the answers to your question. Whether you choose to start there is certainly your prerogative. If you want the answers you will.



Maybe not for you, no, but for a few others, yes. It started with post #154, where I said I thought Goff disappointing, not to be a 1st rd pick and not ready for the NFL. My very last sentence was an oh by the way I am warming to idea that IF the Texans go day 2 or 3 QB, Jake Coker has peeked my interest.

Now I ask you, does that statement about peeking my interest, is it really strong enough to bring out such strong hate and vitriol for someone would be a late rd draft pick. Usually not UNLESS of course there are underlying motives (my attacks on Goff) to cause the Coker attacks. It really isn't so much of an attack on Coker as it is an attack on me by those who became disgruntled by my attack on Goff and they took it personally. This is something that happened all the time with Teddy Bridgewater. I'm used to it. I will say that your posts have been an honest and forthright discussions and debate with no underlying motives.
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late round draft pick or not, The Texans are severely lacking depth across the board & I wouldn't consider Coker even if he were there on the 2nd or 3rd day. We already have a project qb in Savage, we don't need anymore, we need immediate contributors and depth...........with speed.....plus it is my opinion that he's garbage.
 
Coker is not garbage, he's unseasoned. He left FSU in pursuit of a starting position, but in the long run, it may not have helped him. He would have started for FSU this year and probably been better coached in the meantime. He's not at all ready for the NFL. This guy was an option QB in high school. I wouldn't touch him with a draft pick in 2016.
 
bah007 said:
I'm not sure he's much different at all really. He has better pocket awareness and takes less sacks, but Savage is more precise with his throws.

If I'm the Texans I wouldn't waste my time on him. I think it's time to hit QB with a high pick.
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^^^^
This

Although I admit I've only seen Coker play in 2 games and can see the potential that is there.
 
Goff had a huge game last night against lowly Oregon St. I didn't get to see or record it, don't get Pac12 Network. The good news is this may be just enough to get Cal to a Bowl game and we get to see Goff in Bowl Season.

Cal vs Oregon St W54-24; 26 Comp, 37 ATT 453 YDs 70.3% 54 Long 6 TDs 1 INT 221.2 QB Rating

Cal ends four-game skid with 54-24 win over Oregon State
http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?id=400757078
 
Goff looked much more poised with much better footwork and posture in his loss to Stanford. Goff looked to be auditioning for NFL. Consistency still is a problem and many of his passes are not of the NFL variety. Goff throws some great NFL passes but his ball placement and accuracy can also be equally not as great. When given time Goff can be deadly. When pressured or a situation becomes more dire Goff often disappoints. About half of Goff's passes are behind the line of scrimmage to allow WR to be moving forward on the catch (extension of running game). A Sonny Dykes system design. Also Goff is limited in reading defenses and audibles, mostly a one look or check down game plan. This is not Goff's fault, part of the Dyke's Air Raid system. Goff still shows difficulty capitalizing in the red zone and late in the game when the team needs him most (dire situations). Now if you listened to Todd McShay, he couldn't blow enough smoke up Jared Goff's hiney. McShay is truly in love with Jared Goff and is the case now with over 100 ESPN producers and they will follow and promote the McShay thinking. That's what ESPN does. Draftniks Beware! Also, as is often the case I expect NFL scouts to see it much differently than Todd McShay.

11/21 @Stanford L 35-22 37 Comp 54 ATT 386 YDs 68.5% 31 Long 2 TDs 0 INTs 140.8 QB Rating

Jared Goff solid vs. Stanford with Browns GM scouting game
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...olid-vs-stanford-with-browns-gm-scouting-game
 
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Texian said:
Jared Goff vs Stanford (2015)
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/jared-goff-vs-stanford-2015/
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After watching that video I come away with several impressions:

1. The O-line for Cal sucks. The fact that he's as good as he is behind that line says alot for Goff.
2. The Cal WR's are ehhhhh at best, several dropped passes that should have been completions.
3. Goff makes good decisions with the ball, when he gets in trouble he throws the ball away instead of forcing a bad situation that usually leads to interceptions. No he doesn't step up into the pocket and make a Tom Brady throw downfield for a 40 yd. strike to save the play, there's no pocket for him to step into.
4. I like his constantly moving feet, always adjusting for angles as he reads his progressions. Reminds me of Peyton Manning.
5. I like his quick release, not alot of wasted motion and doesn't have to wind up his body to throw downfield. Also Peyton Manning.
6. The Cal Offensive Coordinator needs to come up with some better plays. He needs to make adjustments like a RB in the backfield for blitz protection or 6 down linemen if 5 aren't getting the job done. Also some of those plays look like high school plays.

In summary, I'd have no problem if the Texans took him in the 1st round though we may have to trade up to do so. Yes there would be an adjustment period as he learns his new city, new team, new NFL system, speed of the game etc... but all college prospects have to adjust to the NFL, it's a huge step up. We must be patient.
 
Texian said:
Jared Goff vs Stanford (2015)
http://draftbreakdown.com/video/jared-goff-vs-stanford-2015/
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Great video!

But I really don't see the hype over him. MANY of his throws (even his completions) are routinely savaged if made in the NFL. His decision making appears above average and he makes SOME good throws. But the inconsistency with poor throws, many of which will be intercepted at the next level, are there as well.

This is also with nary a snap under center that I saw. While he has potential, I wouldn't want him over any of our current QBs who have less potential but more experienced with NFL caliber QB requirements. He will be a project and the fans are impatient.

But if he's still there when we draft in the mid 20s, perhaps we take the shot. But I wouldn't break the bank moving up to get him.
 
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One thing I've noticed while studying Goff is that Cal's coaching staff tries really, really hard to get WR Kenny Lawler involved in the passing game. And I'm not sure why. He looks to me to be their 4th best WR. But he's the only guy that they design plays specifically for. Goff likes to spread the ball around a lot, and when he is allowed to the offense runs very smoothly. But there are certain games where the plan seems to be to feed Lawler.
As I'm watching Goff I feel like every time there is a dropped pass or a bad route the intended receiver is Lawler. This happens so frequently that I decided to dive into the stats to see if this was really happening or if I was imagining it.

Here's what I found:
-In the six games that Lawler was targeted at least five times Goff had a 17/8 TD to INT ratio.
-In the six games that Lawler was targeted less than five times that ratio was 20/5.
-Also of note, in the games that Lawler was targeted less than five times Goff's QBR jumps up by 7 points per game, which is a pretty radical jump. That means he statistically improves by almost 10% in those games. That is doubly interesting because most of those games came against the tougher defenses that Cal faced this year.

Now I can't truly discern whether this is a scheme issue or whether Goff just really likes to lock in on Lawler. Maybe both are true. But I do see definite tendencies by the offense to run plays that are specifically designed for Lawler. And I don't see them do that with any other receiver on the team.
 
bah007 said:
One thing I've noticed while studying Goff is that Cal's coaching staff tries really, really hard to get WR Kenny Lawler involved in the passing game. And I'm not sure why. He looks to me to be their 4th best WR. But he's the only guy that they design plays specifically for. Goff likes to spread the ball around a lot, and when he is allowed to the offense runs very smoothly. But there are certain games where the plan seems to be to feed Lawler.
As I'm watching Goff I feel like every time there is a dropped pass or a bad route the intended receiver is Lawler. This happens so frequently that I decided to dive into the stats to see if this was really happening or if I was imagining it.

Here's what I found:
-In the six games that Lawler was targeted at least five times Goff had a 17/8 TD to INT ratio.
-In the six games that Lawler was targeted less than five times that ratio was 20/5.
-Also of note, in the games that Lawler was targeted less than five times Goff's QBR jumps up by 7 points per game, which is a pretty radical jump. That means he statistically improves by almost 10% in those games. That is doubly interesting because most of those games came against the tougher defenses that Cal faced this year.

Now I can't truly discern whether this is a scheme issue or whether Goff just really likes to lock in on Lawler. Maybe both are true. But I do see definite tendencies by the offense to run plays that are specifically designed for Lawler. And I don't see them do that with any other receiver on the team.
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Great stuff, will be looking for this now.
 
bah007 said:
Lol there's a great quote down in the comments section. "Just ask a Browns scout and then draft the other guy."

As for the article, I hope everybody has Lynch that high. I'd love to see a bidding war for him and then we somehow sneak up for Goff without trading away an entire draft.
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So you think Goff is the real deal ? Lynch has the potential tag and Wentz is the mysterious small school guy so where does Cook fit in ?
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
So you think Goff is the real deal ? Lynch has the potential tag and Wentz is the mysterious small school guy so where does Cook fit in ?
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I know this post wasn't directed to me. But Cook reminds me of Andy Dalton/Sam Bradford before the injuries.
 
Honoring Earl 34 said:
So you think Goff is the real deal ? Lynch has the potential tag and Wentz is the mysterious small school guy so where does Cook fit in ?
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Yes, I think Goff is a franchise QB. The kind of guy who can win you Super Bowls.

I don't like Cook's accuracy at all. I like everything else, but you can't be a successful NFL QB without consistent accuracy. Right now, to me he's some mixture of Mark Sanchez and Chad Henne.
 
15/22 for 277 and 4 TDs at the half. And that's with two other throws that should have been TDs but one was dropped and the other the WR couldn't locate the ball.
 
Air Force is not a defensive juggernaut by any stretch but I think this game still proved why Goff is so highly rated. He was throwing pinpoint accurate darts 25 yards downfield into coverage. He clearly has all the tools physically. The questions are mental. Can he handle an NFL offense? It's a complete projection because there's just no way to know until you get him into an NFL training camp.

Still say the best case scenario would be for him to get drafted by a team like Dallas (who would at least try to sit him) instead of a team like Cleveland (who will throw him into the fire immediately).
 
WolverineFan said:
Air Force is not a defensive juggernaut by any stretch but I think this game still proved why Goff is so highly rated. He was throwing pinpoint accurate darts 25 yards downfield into coverage. He clearly has all the tools physically. The questions are mental. Can he handle an NFL offense? It's a complete projection because there's just no way to know until you get him into an NFL training camp.
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He was throwing pinpoint accurate darts into AIR FORCE coverage 25 yards downfield. My doubts about Goff have to do with how he performed against the better schools on his schedule this year. On Sundays, he'll face average DBs that are way better than anything Air Force trotted out there. They're faster, more athletic, and have recognition skills, and they're coached by the best defensive coordinators in the game.

Of all the QBs coming out this year, Goff is the one I'm most intrigued with, but I do have doubts.
 
eriadoc said:
He was throwing pinpoint accurate darts into AIR FORCE coverage 25 yards downfield. My doubts about Goff have to do with how he performed against the better schools on his schedule this year. On Sundays, he'll face average DBs that are way better than anything Air Force trotted out there. They're faster, more athletic, and have recognition skills, and they're coached by the best defensive coordinators in the game.

Of all the QBs coming out this year, Goff is the one I'm most intrigued with, but I do have doubts.
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I share your concerns about Goff. The one drawback I have against Goff is against the better defenses and when pressured Goff performed average or worse. Also against those same defenses when his team needed him to deliver when it counted the most he never delivered. Unlike Carson Wentz who has delivered multiple 4th quarter comebacks and game winning drives with the cool calm demeanor of an Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady. (FYI - I've watched a min of 8 Goff games this year in their entirety.)
 
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