LOL.....most definitely.....this ain't rocket science....it's just football.....and these morons get paid millions of $$.....for doing a lousy job!! I'm a barber.... If I give lousy haircuts everyday I'm not gonna get paid ....Dudes are gonna want their money back. But our current lousy coaches not only get paid.....they don't have to give a single dollar back even though they sucked at their job!! Unbelievable
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What Mallett brings as a (full-time) Starter
- Thread starter sandman
- Start date
Brisco_County
Apples and roadmaps
My dad had made the observation that Jaelen Strong has not responded well to O'Brien's style of motivation. That makes some sense when you compare what Strong's previous coach, Todd Graham, said about him ("Jaelen Strong is the best player I have ever coached.") to O'Brien's quotes ("Strong is going down the wrong road.")
And when it comes to QB's -- Wow! If I'm Mallett, I'm no longer playing for O'Brien; I'm playing for highlight tape to send other coaches. Maybe Mallett didn't handle the benching well, but O'Brien had just torpedoed any possibility of a future NFL starting job for him. O'Brien may have been doing what he thought best to win the game, but the price was his integrity, credibility, and character -- which you need in order for the other players to buy in.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
10 overall games to 7 overall games may seem as "barely more time", but Keenum was THE starter with no one looking over his shoulder for 8 games in 2013. That is a half season as the entrenched starter to prove that he had what it took to keep the job.
Mallett played in two games then was on IR for the rest of the season in 2014. This year he has had 6 minutes against KC, played the whole game against Carolina and TB, was replaced one series after the half against the Falcons and in the 2nd quarter against the Colts.
Without making any commentary on Mallett's play or potential, you simply cannot compare the opportunity that Keenum got to the opportunity that Mallett has gotten so far. Apples and wrenches.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Would you have drafted Tyler Wilson at #1?
bah007
Hall of Fame
I don't even disagree with any of this and I never have. I have never once advocated that Hoyer finish out the season over Mallett. In fact, I have said many times that I think Mallett should start.
I do not know why every single response to my evaluation of Mallett is taken back to Hoyer. I haven't said anything about Hoyer. I do believe that this team would win more games with Hoyer. But not enough to mean anything, so no reason to switch back.
I am very open to discussing my evaluation of Mallett and why I'm certain he will never be a good NFL starter. But that conversation is apparently impossible to have here. Because I am not allowed to talk about why I think Mallett won't make it without people responding to me backing Hoyer for the starting job, which I have never done.
I do not want Hoyer to start. I have no problem with Mallett finishing the season. At the end of the season you guys will see exactly what I see now.
It's not really the opportunity that I'm commenting on. It's the fan reaction and thought process to the opportunity.
How many games did TJ Yates get? Why not a full season as the starter? Does Zac Dysert or Tom Savage get a full season to see what they have?
The only point I have ever tried to make around here is that this board wants to give Mallett a predetermined amount of time regardless of results to "see what he has" because he has "potential". But there has not been one single hint of evidence that this supposed potential even exists.
What is the difference between Mallett and those guys? What has he ever done that makes the fan base think he deserves that amount of time but others do not?
And it's not even about me thinking he shouldn't get the time. I'd rather him get the time than Hoyer. It's about this idea around here that a 27 year old QB cannot even be evaluated until he's received a full season's amount of starts. And yet we have had guys come through this franchise that received less and were kicked to the curb with no second thought to what their "potential" could be.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Were you really not around this MB for the Case Keenum lovefest? You joined in 2006 but maybe were on hiatus that season. People around here were saying that he deserved to go into TC last year as the #1 because he didn't get that benefit the season before when he went 0-8. He sucked during that 0-8 and there was never, ever a thought that he would get replaced. The vast majority who want Mallett to have more than 2 full games each season as an opportunity are much more objective about Mallett and his warts than the Houston homers were about Keenum.
You might be the only person I know who thinks 6 minutes, 2 full games, 1 half and 1 quarter are enough to determine if someone has the ability to fulfill their potential.
Nitrofish
Let The Big Fish Eat!
This is why no one can take you seriously. There is mounds of evidence that he can be a good starting NFL QB. I have posted videos that demonstrate the skills Mallett has, as have people "in the biz" have also praised him, his skills and potential. All have also said he needs to work on some things like touch and accuracy, which is why he needs game experience.
I understand that you value your own opinion highly, and it's your right to do so. But the only way we are going to find out if you are right or not is for the coach to stop playing games with the QB's. Everyone knows what Brian Hoyer's ceiling is. We have seen in in it's full glory. Despite your assurances that Mallett is not worthy, --and you very well could be right-- I think all people are asking for is for him to prove it one way or the other, which he cannot do sitting on the bench, or getting yanked out every few quarters when he was playing just fine.
You keep asking about other QB's and whether they also deserve a full season. First, Keenum is no longer a Texan, so stop bringing him up. That ship has sailed. 2nd if Savage has potential, --and I think it's fair to say he has shown some-- he should get a fair shot if things are not working out with Mallett. He was drafted for a reason, and I don't think it was just to take up a roster spot. Perhaps Savage is the bridge to some other franchise QB, and perhaps he is the franchise QB. One thing I am certain of is that we are not going to find out based off of your gut feelings about them. They have to play in real games and acquire real experience.
If you want to lay your case out there regarding Mallett and his lack of NFL talent, go ahead and do it. Provide some tangible video evidence that illustrates your points. Because as of right now, you have failed to produce anything but your opinions with no evidence. We are just all supposed to believe in your ability to evaluate talent by watching games on TV and then coming to conclusions that effect someones career? Someone who has worked their whole life to get their shot at their dream. If pro football teams only knew it was as easy as checking your opinions on this message board, think of how that would revolutionize the game.
I'll try to dig up some videos... but maybe.
I can't speak for anyone else here, but I have advocated Mallett get the season, and mostly because there's nothing else to go to. If Savage were healthy that may be completely different. If someone better than Hoyer were the alternative than that may be completely different. There was a better altenative than to give Yates 2012. There will hopefully be better alternatives than to give Dysert or Savage 2016.
We have Mallett now and poopoo for an alternative. Even if Mallett turns out less than poopoo I'd rather just go ahead and take a shot. At least it's not known poopoo. Again, not to speak for other folk, but it's not so much a lovefest with Mallett as just the specifics of the hand we've been dealt this season.
I see what you're saying, but "this board" has been all over the place on all those guys. There were guys who were wanting to start Yates over Schaub, they "knew" Schaub wasn't going to win the big game.
Then anyone who supported Case got shot down... but there were plenty of people who argued for Case.
Next to Jj Watt, everyone's favorite Texans is the back up QB.
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
I don't think Keenum is that bad. And yeah I'd have rather had him here competing with savage to be the back up behind Mallet than Hoyer.
Keenum had some huge weaknesses, but he made plays too.
And last year he came from another teams PS out of a deer stand to win two games in a row here. Not great stats, but considering the circumstances under which Keenum played in both seasons he played here, he wasn't "terrible" IMO.
At the very least I enjoyed watching him play.
Keenum had some huge weaknesses, but he made plays too.
And last year he came from another teams PS out of a deer stand to win two games in a row here. Not great stats, but considering the circumstances under which Keenum played in both seasons he played here, he wasn't "terrible" IMO.
At the very least I enjoyed watching him play.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Gotta jump in here and say bah's track record of opinions is very good, actually excellent. And while I appreciate you, 76Texan and others who break down tape, that's not the only way to go about it. IMO he's being a tad hasty on this one although it should be noted he would go ahead and start Mallett.
Now to bah, for every person you think is some excuse making fan boy for Mallett there are folks who won't acknowledge one thing he does right. Discussions about the extreme MB members and throwing anyone vaguely similar into these stupid homer hater piles doesn't benefit anyone. Normally you don't go there.
PDS @PatDStat 5h5 hours ago
Also on the INT for Hoyer. Panicked waiting for CJF to come open. Look at Strong, never sees him.
That play is the mission statement of any dissertation on Brian Hoyer.
Well said, man. That's it in a nutshell.
My lowering opinion of O'Brien as a head coach is not knee-jerk, although it has been quicker than ever anticipated. What you said here nails my attitude about it.
His apparent inability to analyze, obtain, and develop a young QB reveals a lot about him. In my own perception, there is an arrogance that nobody is good enough for him to invest in.
And his apparent inability to lead the perennial backup QBs that he's chosen, as well as the haphazard coaching style that he's employed to undermine them, indicates to me that he's in over his head with this job.
bah007
Hall of Fame
You're right. I'm just going to end the conversation right here. It's going nowhere and doing nobody any good. Nothing anybody says in here is going to change my mind. I'm sure that's hubris on my part but it is what it is.
There are a lot of very good posters here who I consider to be very knowledgeable about football. There are people in this thread that I am disagreeing with that I don't think I have ever disagreed with before.
I am a football coach by trade. That is my job. Granted, I coach at the high school level. Not the NFL. But because of my background and experience, it is very hard for me to defer to others on football opinions. I do not mean that in a derogatory way. I am not implying that I am any more knowledgeable than anyone else. I am not bringing that up to try to make people listen to me, just simply to show where I am coming from. I'm sure that is a character flaw on my part, but there it is. I know the game of football, and when I am sure of something there is no changing my mind outside of outright evidence, which Mallett has not provided.
I am absolutely certain that Mallett is not going to be the QB we are looking for. I have seen all that I need to see to feel confident saying that. But I accept that some of you need more time and more evidence before you are ready to say that. I come here to discuss football with other intelligent fans, not to get into petty arguments. And that is what has happened here. Suffice it to say, I'm dropping my gloves. I will just mute myself on this subject from now on.
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You are exactly right.... And it's a shame.....and I just don't get it w/Obrien
Au contraire. You said the following very well; I should have muted myself on the subject too.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I would like to believe that this can happen, but I fully expect the first "wish" not to translate very well into reality.
powda
The bridge between stupid and useless is short.
I think you'd be doing us a disservice by not revisiting the topic after a few more games (or the next one.) As you say, some people need to see a bit more to be swayed.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I'll come back to it down the road. We'll just let it play out a little while longer.
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Well said. I dropped the gloves last week as well. Just not worth the effort. I see what I see, I believe what I believe. I could be wrong, I could be right. But I'm done trying to convince anyone. The season will play out and we will go from there.
However, I will say this to the rest of the board, there are people here taking shots at other posters (it's coming from both sides) and it's complete BS. We can disagree and still have a cordial conversation doing so. You don't need to get personal just because you don't like where the other guys stands on an issue. It's petty and it's pathetic. Don't be that guy.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Not that it means much, but you're good with me 007. I've been around here a while now and lately I've found myself scanning through threads rather than reading every post. A lot of posters on the board these days tend to trend the same, so I scroll right past them most of the time. Without sounding like a nuthugger, you're one of the several I stop to read.
I've stated before how much I appreciated all the draft analysis. Same goes for TT topics.
*Wipes mouth*
I'm done
sandman
Brexit Advisor
I'm pretty much convinced that Mallett is no more the guy than Hoyer, and I know Hoyer ain't the guy. Might have a sliver of hope left but that's it. I've been more upset about how OB has handled the QB situation more than anything else.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Exactly this.
AMEN
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
For me, that's it.
I could be wrong. We could all be wrong.
But to me it made much more sense that if you were going to go with these clearance rack qb's to just roll with mallett. Even if you wanted Hoyer he shouldve been a fall back plan just in case Mal was a complete and utter disaster.
I think that is just one aspect of how OB has handled that position which I just found.....upsetting.
I never liked his qb "competition".
And as much as I would like to see Hoyer cut, I have to admit that he hasn't really done that guy any favors either.
And then the one guy who he drafted....he 1) didn't even have him in the running for starter or back up 2) IRd him when he probably could have come back this season.
The posts above about OB undermining his qb's is spot on. Those guys are supposed to be the leaders and OB is basically sending the message to the team that you shouldn't trust either of them for this year.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
IR - no.
Thanks for some reason I couldn't remember.
Sprained right shoulder.... Last preseason game....projected 4 - 6 weeks to recover
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
He's on IR. No return this season.
Entire season....that sucks....damn, when things go bad it seems like a domino effect.....
I basically agree with these posts.
Now lets have an honest evaluation of Mallett. Mallett is probably too inaccurate to be a top 10 QB in the NFL and apparently the owner/coaches think he has maturity issues like Carr did. Last to show up and the first to leave.
It's the McNair's/BOB's perrogative to feel this way. They've seen much more of Mallett than you or I have. However going with Hoyer is not only predictable because of its shortsightedness, it's is the wrong thing in the long term for the Texans as a franchise.
Would people on this MB be OK with a 3-13, 6-10 season if it meant drafting a Goff/Cook/Hack/ Texian's guy Wentz etc...?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Before you create this narrative do you have anything to support Mallett is a 9-5 player?
Nope
But if BOB doesn't like him it's probably because he isn't being a good teammate.
I'm with you on this. I've never been quick to call for a coach to be fired. I was not a fan of OB before he was hired, because he got way too much credit for "coaching Brady (well after Brady was "Brady") and for coaching Penn St. after that debacle. After last season, I was all in for him. I bought into the "start Mallett after the bye because he was traded to the Texans so late" theme. That made sense to me. It seemed logical and decisive. OB has been anything but since then. How well has any QB OB coached, not named Tom Brady, fared in the NFL?
I get a sense that OB is in over his head because he is over-thinking everything. He's also trying to imitate Belichick in all the wrong ways. Try doing a good Belichick imitation by making a decision and sticking with it. Don't worry about what the media is saying. He seems to be coaching job-scared and that's a recipe for what we've seen this season.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
That would be the expected recovery IF if were an uncomplicated Type II A-C joint sprain/tear. However, immediately after he underwent a 2nd MRI (likely an MRI arthrogram to look at the labrum), they shut him down with no expectation for return this season. As you can read in my contemporary post below, labral tears occur in 2/3rds of Type II A-C joint sprains. Even though not all labral tears will go to surgery, it would not surprise me one bit that with a tear in a throwing shoulder of a QB, if next year we hear that he had undergone shoulder surgery sometime in 2015.
If you've never suffered an A-C joint/rotator cuff injury, then it's hard to describe. I spent nearly 15 years not being able to lift my right arm straight out to my right. My wife would tell me of cradling my arm, in my sleep and crying. Post-op, I spent three months in a sling and sleeping up-right. The cure was as painful as the injury, if not more so. I'm disappointed that Savage was IR'd, but optimistic for his future.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
My doc said "torn rotator cuff. You're not a professional athlete so we recommend leaving it alone." I can't throw a football, baseball, anything with velocity. My kids come by, "make it do those noises." Thanks doc.
The saving grace is for whatever reason it doesn't impair my bow pull.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I guess I should have included that. Constant ache is the base line, flares from there.
It's been 25 years. Kind of used to it.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
I wish I had shoulder problems at this point
, I destroyed my left elbow, forearm, wrist and still dealing with it. 3 surgeries later and one to go, yay me!!!!! :/
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Funny (ha) thing is busted up my shoulder on something nobody gives you a hard time about - skiing. I get crap constantly for riding a sportbike. Hell ive been hit 7 times on it and nothing permanent like this stupid shoulder.
Any hunters out there? Freaking shoulder is hanging on by a string to begin with if you've ever tore down a deer.
Any hunters out there? Freaking shoulder is hanging on by a string to begin with if you've ever tore down a deer.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Skiing killed Sonny Bono. It' a dangerous sport and even more dangerous pastime.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Y
Yep. 28 years ago. First month of freshman year, not even 18 yet. Playing flag football and some meathead decides to rip my arm off. Torn labrum. Had to redshirt freshman year. Somehow got through it without surgery because the weak point (straight out to the side) didn't impact playing basketball for some reason. Think It popped out 2-3 times in 4 seasons. Can't throw a football or baseball without looking like Dan Quissenberry. Never had it fixed. Got the noises all the kids love. I can skip stones like a sumbitch though.
Yep. 28 years ago. First month of freshman year, not even 18 yet. Playing flag football and some meathead decides to rip my arm off. Torn labrum. Had to redshirt freshman year. Somehow got through it without surgery because the weak point (straight out to the side) didn't impact playing basketball for some reason. Think It popped out 2-3 times in 4 seasons. Can't throw a football or baseball without looking like Dan Quissenberry. Never had it fixed. Got the noises all the kids love. I can skip stones like a sumbitch though.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
No you don't. I think Cloak knows some of the shoulder issues I've had in the past. I'll just leave it at this, I've now had a total of 4 surgeries on both shoulders. I can't lift weights anymore, can't throw a ball at all, can't play golf, etc. The last scope I had was basically to clean up the amount of arthritis that has formed. I've been told they do not wish to do anymore surgeries unless it's to replace the shoulders. He's hoping I can get to 50 before beginning the replacement of the 1st. We'll see. I've had about everything you could think of repaired between the both of themI wish I had shoulder problems at this point
BUT, the worst part about all of these surgeries isn't the actual surgeries, it's the rehab. The range of motion "exercises" alone about brought me to tears.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
Cloak knows my injuries as well lol. The resident Dr! My injury is only 2 years old, so arthritis is still to come. I'm not gonna compare who's injury are worse, because they are probably both terrible, I just wished I had shoulder pain because the rest of my arm hurts so bad lol, it was more tongue in cheek.
Rehab is shitty. I can't straighten my arm past 40 degrees and just had a surgery to clean scar tissue out of the elbow region and now I have a machine I stick my arm into and it forces my arm straight. I do that 4-5 HOURS a day plus another handful of "stretches" throughout the day. Its like a full time job just rehabbing. It definitely sucks.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I feel bad complaining now.