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"Is Obrien Really An NFL Caliber Head Coach"??

EVOLVIST said:
In all due respect (and I mean, in ALL due respect), we've already been over this point ad nauseum when Schaub and Keenum were in-house.

The backup can hear the playcall through his helmet. There's nothing to read between those lines.
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It was bullshit then, just like it's bullshit now. You'll see lots of NFL backups listening in on a radio without their helmets.

Schaub was being a goofy prick on the sideline with his helmet on. So was Hoyer.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
A scathing article:
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I may be in the minority, but I think there's way too much focus on the QB. Sunday's game should have opened our eyes, our QB situation is only a small part of the problem.

We had a back up QB who had not practiced with the team all week whoop our defense. We had a 32 year old Frank Gore look like the Bus.

QB is an issue. But drafting Teddy Bridgewater in 2014 wasn't going to stop Frank Gore, Matt Hasselbeck, & Andre Johnson.
 
Grams said:
You are correct, our defense sucks as much as the offense - maybe more. That's the sad part.
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The other sad part is most of our defenders are first round picks. Watt, Wilfork, Clowney, Cushing, JJo, KJackson, Kevin Johnson, Mercilus
 
thunderkyss said:
It was bullshit then, just like it's bullshit now. You'll see lots of NFL backups listening in on a radio without their helmets.

Schaub was being a goofy prick on the sideline with his helmet on. So was Hoyer.
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Don't be goofy. I call bullshit on you saying it's bullshit. While it's true that some backups have earpieces and such, haven't you seen sideline images of other backups doing the same thing as ours? I know I have. Seems like I saw Dan O do that in the last Lions game (he also wears #8). Break out your tin foil hats. :tinfoil:
 
EVOLVIST said:
Don't be goofy. I call bullshit on you saying it's bullshit. While it's true that some backups have earpieces and such, haven't you seen sideline images of other backups doing the same thing as ours? I know I have. Seems like I saw Dan O do that in the last Lions game (he also wears #8). Break out your tin foil hats. :tinfoil:
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I've seen them hold the helmet to their ear. About the only time I've seen them with the helmet on the entire game, is when they're butthurt.
 
thunderkyss said:
It was bullshit then, just like it's bullshit now. You'll see lots of NFL backups listening in on a radio without their helmets.

Schaub was being a goofy prick on the sideline with his helmet on. So was Hoyer.
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I agree, the defense is terrible too.

Having said that, I think as a team the concentration, effort and morale are affected by the mismanaged qb situation.

I think poor play there affects the team in less tangible ways in its own right....but when you have poor play AND the coach is jerking guys around there it kind of puts a dark cloud on the team.

That said, I'm with you. I don't even care who's at qb right now. This team is terrible as a whole. The entire team is poorly coached and lacks discipline.
 
Watching the All-22 right now and all I can say is our Run-D sucks and our running game sucks. Barring that last bone-headed play by Hoyer--and I have to assume we weren't actually going to get into the endzone anyway--we are getting killed in the trenches (including the LBs).
 
thunderkyss said:
I may be in the minority, but I think there's way too much focus on the QB. Sunday's game should have opened our eyes, our QB situation is only a small part of the problem.

We had a back up QB who had not practiced with the team all week whoop our defense. We had a 32 year old Frank Gore look like the Bus.

QB is an issue. But drafting Teddy Bridgewater in 2014 wasn't going to stop Frank Gore, Matt Hasselbeck, & Andre Johnson.
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You're right on all counts except for the "too much focus on the QB" part. 3 of the Texans 4 losses have been by 7 points. Yeah, the defense has been a disappointment but even with that, if you had just above average QB play, you probably win all 3 of those games and are sitting at 4-1 right now.

With the rules the way they are, geared greatly towards offense, I mean, damn near every defensive penalty comes with an automatic 1st down, you have to have a QB who can play if you want to win in this league. Yeah, you'll have those occasions where a Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson or Mark Sanchez don't have to do much and everything goes right for the "team", but you don't win consistently like that. You don't win year in and year out like New England, Indy and Green Bay do, because they have that QB.

You're right that Bridgewater, Carr, whoever, can't stop Gore, can't cover AJ, and can't sack a QB, but if you had better QB play than the crap we're running out there now, you probably win those games despite those defensive struggles.

You have to have a good QB to win consistently year in and year out. That's just the way it is. If you don't you're going to have those 9-7 seasons followed by 5-11 the next. You're going to be up and down like that, inconsistent. And until you get that QB, a team full of JJ Watt's aren't going to matter much.
 
dream_team said:
And the other sad part is they were an excellent defense just last season! WTH happened!?
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Well, JJ Watt may have had the best year ever, by a large margin, for a defensive lineman. His two year stretch at that level his might be even more amazing. Expecting sustained performance year after year at that level is unrealistic. If he has receded to merely playing at a great level it could have a negative impact on the defense.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I'm beginning to wonder about the philosophy that O'Brien brought to the Texans......."We will game plan differently [uniquely] for each team and each game." This instead of trying to approach each game in a similar manner/scheme to challenge the opposition to beat OUR scheme. Our players evidently have difficulties now with even the basics that would be involved in single scheme repetitions. How can we expect any semblance of success when we expect THEM to change their schemes, with each player having to basically learn anew each game on both sides of the line, without ever gaining the confidence which focused and exhaustive repetition brings?
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This is exactly what I've been saying. Where is this change scheme plan we had shoved down our throats?
 
So what's the plan for the rest of this season?
If we lose out and finish 1-15 and get the #1 overall pick.
I suppose Bill O'Brien will have a big influence on who we draft.
It's not like he's going to be fired with an awful 2015 season.
Rick Smith on the other hand. How do you justify him staying?
 
infantrycak said:
It's not?
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Why would any head coach be fired after only their second season? Especially Bill O'Brien, who had a successful 9-7 rookie campaign. Even if they go 1-15 this season I'll bet you anything he's not fired. He's going to coach a third year in Houston regardless of what people want or think.
 
gary said:
I would not rule out O'Brien or any or any other head coach ever being fired.
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Agreed in most cases. But we're not about to go on to head coach number four in franchise history this early in the process. Bill O'Brien has job security for at least another season. Now talk to me next season at this time then I'll buy that he's on the hot seat if we're still struggling and off to another 1-4 or 0-5 start.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
Why would any head coach be fired after only their second season? Especially Bill O'Brien, who had a successful 9-7 rookie campaign. Even if they go 1-15 this season I'll bet you anything he's not fired. He's going to coach a third year in Houston regardless of what people want or think.
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Why ??

That's simple.

He has done nothing but try to plug in stop gap garbage at the most important position in sports rather than fixing the problem when he had the chance in year one.

Even if he addresses the position next offseason with a premium pick we will still be waiting 1-3 years for that draft pick to develop into a competent NFL QB. So .... because he didn't do anything about it in year one , we're now 2 years behind where we should be in the process.

I think setting a franchise back two years (or more) is grounds for firing.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
Why would any head coach be fired after only their second season? Especially Bill O'Brien, who had a successful 9-7 rookie campaign. Even if they go 1-15 this season I'll bet you anything he's not fired. He's going to coach a third year in Houston regardless of what people want or think.
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Don't make it right.

But I agree with you. O'Brien will be back for year three with his QB Brian Hoyer (who we should be proud of) & Tom Savage as his back up.

We'll probably draft the next Jankowski with a top 10 pick.
 
It's depressing to think that O'Brien might be back next year just because McNair may feel he needs to justify his hiring, or actually believes there's sunnier days. If you've lost the locker room by your second year, you're in over your head. If Rex Ryan is laughing at how you're handling quarterbacks, you're in over your head. When your most consistent draft pick is a 6th round fullback, you're in over your head. I'll restrain myself there, but this list is dang near endless.

This should've been obvious (I'm trying really hard not to curse here) when hiring a New England coach who's experience is Tom Brady's towel boy, and declining college programs. Who really thought this was a good hire ... except maybe Robert Kraft, who after talking to McNair smirks as he walks away. The 35 year old Shanahan has more NFL experience.
 
If there's any reason not to fire OB before next year it's that it sets a pretty crummy example for any prospective new HC's.

HC's were turning down offers from Cleveland after the coaching turnstile they've become. That's not to say we're there right now, but we also didn't think we were Browns-like at all before this season. Doesn't take too many missteps before you look up and realise you done stepped in it.
 
Scooter said:
This should've been obvious (I'm trying really hard not to curse here) when hiring a New England coach who's experience is Tom Brady's towel boy, and declining college programs. Who really thought this was a good hire ... except maybe Robert Kraft, who after talking to McNair smirks as he walks away. The 35 year old Shanahan has more NFL experience.
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Based on what was known, O'Brien was a good hire. What he did at Penn State was highly admirable. No one could've foreseen his blind spots and delusions in the NFL

Mollywhopper said:
If there's any reason not to fire OB before next year it's that it sets a pretty crummy example for any prospective new HC's.

HC's were turning down offers from Cleveland after the coaching turnstile they've become. That's not to say we're there right now, but we also didn't think we were Browns-like at all before this season. Doesn't take too many missteps before you look up and realise you done stepped in it.
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I think every future coaching prospect will sympathize with an organization that had to cut bait on a guy who didn't respect the need for true QB talent.
 
Brisco_County said:
I think every future coaching prospect will sympathize with an organization that had to cut bait on a guy who didn't respect the need for true QB talent.
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Or they think they'll be the bait cut next if the turnover isn't fast enough.

And I was just throwing that out there as any idea for why OB may see a third season if this keeps on it's current trajectory.
 
Brisco_County said:
Based on what was known, O'Brien was a good hire. What he did at Penn State was highly admirable.
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What was known is that he spent 1 season as an Offensive coordinator with a team that barely identifies an offensive coordinator. He had 5 years of total NFL experience, all with 1 team. None of his college teams performed well. What did he do at Penn State other than bridge the gap against a pretty weak big 10 towards the inevitable fall? No. This was fail from the get-go.
 
Mollywhopper said:
Or they think they'll be the bait cut next if the turnover isn't fast enough.

And I was just throwing that out there as any idea for why OB may see a third season if this keeps on it's current trajectory.
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Most coaches are pretty arrogant/self-confident. Unless you get into a Browns situation - 3 2 year HCs plus a 1 year HC in recent history, I don't think a single 2 and done will factor.
 
Bulls on Parade said:
Why would any head coach be fired after only their second season? Especially Bill O'Brien, who had a successful 9-7 rookie campaign. Even if they go 1-15 this season I'll bet you anything he's not fired. He's going to coach a third year in Houston regardless of what people want or think.
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Josh McDaniels, 8-8 after his first year and didn't make it through his 2nd season. Broncos couldn't get rid of him fast enough, players completely turned on Josh.
 
Corrosion said:
Why ??

That's simple.

He has done nothing but try to plug in stop gap garbage at the most important position in sports rather than fixing the problem when he had the chance in year one.
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Sure, but none of this happened in a vacuum. Bob McNair let him go down this path. McNair LET him.

Now, either McNair reads coachspeak like braille, or he's as dumb as a daisey. Either one is pretty dull. The fact of the matter, though, is that a real owner of an NFL franchise should know enough about football to be able to communicate his vision of the franchise to the coach and staff, and not the other way around. This need not be a Jerry Jones or Al Davis circle jerk to get the job done, but let's be a little less passive, huh, Bob?

So, to me, it doesn't so much boil down to whether OB stays or not; it's more of how much McNair learns from this situation, and how much he's willing to put his fingerprints on the franchise. If that means OB takes a powder, great! If not, that's fine, too, as long as Dickey Smith beats feet.

Otherwise, if Bob McNair remains the team's ostrich it won't matter if Bill Cowher spreads his gospel to Houston, we're screwed.
 
EVOLVIST said:
Sure, but none of this happened in a vacuum. Bob McNair let him go down this path. McNair LET him.

Now, either McNair reads coachspeak like braille, or he's as dumb as a daisey. Either one is pretty dull. The fact of the matter, though, is that a real owner of an NFL franchise should know enough about football to be able to communicate his vision of the franchise to the coach and staff, and not the other way around. This need not be a Jerry Jones or Al Davis circle jerk to get the job done, but let's be a little less passive, huh, Bob?

So, to me, it doesn't so much boil down to whether OB stays or not; it's more of how much McNair learns from this situation, and how much he's willing to put his fingerprints on the franchise. If that means OB takes a powder, great! If not, that's fine, too, as long as Dickey Smith beats feet.

Otherwise, if Bob McNair remains the team's ostrich it won't matter if Bill Cowher spreads his gospel to Houston, we're screwed.
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No no no no ... NO. McNair needs to stay his happy ass OUT of operations. He and his GM mouthpiece have been screwing us for too long already. His job is to hire (and fire) people who have proven aptitude in their stations. NO MORE THAN THAT. His job as owner is to do what got him where he is in life - find the most efficient path to success by shrewd negotiations with enemies and hiring/promoting exceptional talent. He's blinded by trying to join the cool kids owners club and taking advice from enemies and kiss-ass underlings. Hell he turned a kiss-ass underling into family for ****'s sake. Bob McNair the business man needs to show up if we're going to have any success.
 
Scooter said:
No no no no ... NO. McNair needs to stay his happy ass OUT of operations. He and his GM mouthpiece have been screwing us for too long already. His job is to hire (and fire) people who have proven aptitude in their stations. NO MORE THAN THAT. His job as owner is to do what got him where he is in life - find the most efficient path to success by shrewd negotiations with enemies and hiring/promoting exceptional talent. He's blinded by trying to join the cool kids owners club and taking advice from enemies and kiss-ass underlings. Hell he turned a kiss-ass underling into family for ****'s sake. Bob McNair the business man needs to show up if we're going to have any success.
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That's what I'm saying, yo. McNair needs to know the business of football in order to run the business of football.

If Bob McNair says we don't need a superb talent at QB that not only shows me that he doesn't know the game, but also that he's bought into something that's detached from reality. Who runs a successful business with their balls locked in somebody else's safety deposit box?

And this is why it's going to take McNair to get his head out of the sand, because the ability to make these shrewed business decisions has heretofore been in absentia in every way imaginable.

As I said before, we don't need any Jerry Jones' parlor tricks in H-Town, Texas. But we do need a modicum of football savvy not to be wooed like a schoolgirl, by anyone who will promise the world if only she spread your legs.

Hence, it's all going to depend on what Bob McNair learns NOW... because if not (and the first step is getting rid of Rick Smith), we're going to be football chumps forever in this town.
 
Showtime100 said:
Let's see it for what it is, friends. McNair.

Screw the Texans. At least Bud Adams cared.
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You're old enough to know better. McNair is stupid and ignorant and sucks up to owners who want to see him fail - which makes him infinitely frustrating, but he DOES care. Bud only cared about his station in life and who could improve it. Have you forgotten what he did to every player who cost too much or his endless threats to leave? And the Shitmonkey DID leave ... to say he cared ends there. McNair cares about himself and his home - he's just so poorly equipped to handle his position that it seems otherwise. Doubly frustrating is he landed 'IT' ... and as all leadership failures do, McNair assumed others' success as his own. Fueled by that failure of confidence, a manager becomes a micro manager - destroying progress and blaming it on the subordinates that he stepped on.
 
Showtime100 said:
Bud Adams cared, but was too stupid in other ways.

(Old enough to know better.....lol)
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Do we really need to get into how explicitly Bud screwed players, coaches and the city? Either I'm missing a sarcasm smiley, or this is exceptionally poor taste.
 
Ok. Let's take Hugh Campbell. Can you see McNair pulling such BS in order to get a QB? We'll start there.

Was Bud Adams good for the city? Hell no. Was he a good person? OH HHHEEELLL no. Was he better than McNair. You bet your ass. Because McNair doesn't do **** for this team.

Keep in mind I'm saying this to a guy who has a Clorox avatar in protest of his coach.
 
EVOLVIST said:
Sure, but none of this happened in a vacuum. Bob McNair let him go down this path. McNair LET him.
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The man answered Bob McNair's question.. "Can you build a Super Bowl competitor out of my franchise?" with Ryan Fitzpatrick & Ryan Mallett. "Are you sure?" McNair asked & O'Brien corrected himself with Brian Hoyer & Ryan Mallett.

"Are you f'kn kidding me?" He said & O'Brien said... Hoyer is our starting QB.

After three quarters of some of the most inept play from the QB position I had ever seen, O'Brien admitted he was wrong. He was not good at evaluating player performance & moved on to demonstrate his ability to develop young talent.

Three games later, he showed he wasn't good at that either.

So he's not a scout. He's not a coach. & I think it's safe to say he isn't much of a motivational speaker.

The only HC trait he appears to posses is the ability to cuss like a sailor.

McNair can get off this ride at anytime & no one would blame him. In fact, the "McNair let him" narrative gets worse from this point forward.
 
infantrycak said:
Not that I think you will listen, but it's written on his face during games.

And for the cynical, he's made some money on paper. He'd make even more with a consistent winner.
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I wonder how McNair felt after being convinced that Andre needed to go (or however it went down) and then seeing him come in here wearing a colts uniform and tear up the Texans.

Maybe overall he still feels it was the right move.....but watching that at the time couldn't have gone over too well.
 
xtruroyaltyx said:
I wonder how McNair felt after being convinced that Andre needed to go (or however it went down) and then seeing him come in here wearing a colts uniform and tear up the Texans.

Maybe overall he still feels it was the right move.....but watching that at the time couldn't have gone over too well.
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In 2014 McNair was adamant the Texans were a playoff team and why Bob refused to trade Andre when there were legitimate fair offers on the table. After 2014 it was clear the Texans were more of a rebuilding team than a playoff team. When it became clear that cutting Andre offered up $3 million + in Salary Cap savings that the Texans desperately needed it was a much easier decision. Seeing Andre as a Colt is a reminder of all the other bad decisions that have made the Texans who they're today. Also could dredge up "Buyers Remorse" on O'Brien and more disappointment knowing that is just another situation that will have to be dealt with and not having an answer of what to do to remedy the situation.
 
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