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Arian Foster reported to have serious groin injury

Playoffs said:
If this is true, the more realistic return will be +\-8 weeks from surgery even though you'll hear 4-6.

But it's very unlikely that you'd see a "torn away from the bone" in an MRI -- as reported by multiple local media from a team source -- and not find same in surgery. So something doesn't really jive. We'll see.

Dr. CND was working with information I provided from our local media with a mole in the medical/training staff in his prior posts on this particular Foster injury.
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As I communicated to you, for someone to have mistaken "torn away from the bone" findings on MRI for findings of a run-of-the-mill "sports hernia, that would mean that the medical staff had to have had the equipment boy doing the reading.

Playoffs said:
Dr CND's skepticism of...

​

appears well founded:

PDS @PatDStat
His take is off, its not accurate.​
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Those "torn from the bone" reports coming from several of the local media still makes me strongly lean towards the major injury being the complete avulsion of the proximal adductor longus muscle tendon from the pubic bone. Until I see otherwise, reattachment with bone anchors is what I would suspect was the treatment. If so, to see Arian Foster in a game in 3-6 weeks would be unrealistic. Eight weeks would still be pretty iffy. Closer to around 12 weeks if you want to give him the best chance to perform, and see him stay on the field for at least awhile.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
The muscle/tendon involved has not be specifically reported. When you refer to a groin injury with muscle/tendon completely torn from the bone, this usually involves the adductor longus (labelled "al" below) as I've mentioned in previous posts. Another muscle tendon that can be torn, but is not usually referred to as "torn from the bone" is the rectus abdominis (labelled "ra" below) muscle/tendon. This tendon inserts on the pubic bone very close to the same area that the adductor tendon is attached, except coming from the opposite direction. The Bassini or modified Bassini repair is commonly performed on the classic run-of-the-mill male groin hernia (I have performed many of these myself). This technique can also be incorporated in repair of a localized rectus abdominis muscle or tendon tear. In a classic hernia or a typical sports hernia defect repair, recovery can be as quickly as 4-6 weeks, but many times closer to 8 weeks . When this technique is applied to the repair of the abdominis rectus tendon tear, you can expect the recovery to be closer to the 3 month period......performance at that period, of course, cannot be guaranteed. And that excludes the potential occurrence of inherent surgical complications, or set backs due to too hurried non-fully rehabbed return.
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CloakNNNdagger said:
images
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CloakNNNdagger said:
Those "torn from the bone" reports coming from several of the local media still makes me strongly lean towards the major injury being the complete avulsion of the proximal adductor longus muscle tendon from the pubic bone. Until I see otherwise, reattachment with bone anchors is what I would suspect was the treatment. If so, to see Arian Foster in a game in 3-6 weeks would be unrealistic. Eight weeks would still be pretty iffy. Closer to around 12 weeks if you want to give him the best chance to perform, and see him stay on the field for at least awhile.
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Just trying to keep up. Recovery Can be as quick as 4-6 weeks (week 4 of the preseason to week 2 of the regular season) many times closer to 8 weeks (week 4) but 12 weeks (week 8) is probably best long term. If it was in fact the less serious of the two "torn from bone" scenarios?
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
As I communicated to you, for someone to have mistaken "torn away from the bone" findings on MRI for findings of a run-of-the-mill "sports hernia, that would mean that the medical staff had to have had the equipment boy doing the reading.



Those "torn from the bone" reports coming from several of the local media still makes me strongly lean towards the major injury being the complete avulsion of the proximal adductor longus muscle tendon from the pubic bone. Until I see otherwise, reattachment with bone anchors is what I would suspect was the treatment. If so, to see Arian Foster in a game in 3-6 weeks would be unrealistic. Eight weeks would still be pretty iffy. Closer to around 12 weeks if you want to give him the best chance to perform, and see him stay on the field for at least awhile.
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so, 12 weeks for him to see the field again, or to begin rehab?
 
EllisUnit said:
Well that is good news, may be ready to start season then.
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You missed the, "His take is off, its not accurate."

Some JAG posing as "injury expert"... not a surgeon, not an MD.
thunderkyss said:
Just trying to keep up...
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8 weeks at the very minimum, 12 weeks would be prudent... but prudence has escaped Texan's medical/training staff in the past.
Malloy said:
so, 12 weeks for him to see the field again, or to begin rehab?
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Field. Can walk now, maybe jog in a week or so. But cutting is the test... ~5 weeks to even begin testing cutting. Then live action cutting with guys going at your feet will really tell the tale.
 
Playoffs said:
You missed the, "His take is off, its not accurate."

Some JAG posing as "injury expert"... not a surgeon, not an MD.

8 weeks at the very minimum, 12 weeks would be prudent... but prudence has escaped Texan's medical/training staff in the past.

Field. Can walk now, maybe jog in a week or so. But cutting is the test... ~5 weeks to even begin testing cutting. Then live action cutting with guys going at your feet will really tell the tale.
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Gotya, I'll keep my scepticism up, but at first I thought he would be out for the season. :)
 
Playoffs said:
You missed the, "His take is off, its not accurate."

Some JAG posing as "injury expert"... not a surgeon, not an MD.

8 weeks at the very minimum, 12 weeks would be prudent... but prudence has escaped Texan's medical/training staff in the past.

Field. Can walk now, maybe jog in a week or so. But cutting is the test... ~5 weeks to even begin testing cutting. Then live action cutting with guys going at your feet will really tell the tale.
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& this is the main reason I want to get this straight in my head. Eventually it will be reported as close, or the Texans will throw out a date he's expected to return. & inevitably "some of us" will want to add a couple to a few more weeks to whatever the Texans say, "Just to be safe."

So if recovery can be as quick 4 weeks... but we shouldn't expect him to start cutting until 5 weeks (week 1 of the regular season) any return to practice before week 2 should be seen as "rushing"?

However, he'll be doing rehab daily with a trained physical therapist, who will be rationing his activity & monitoring his progress. If they determine he is ready to begin cutting at week 4 are they rushing, or are they letting the body decide?
 
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Playoffs said:
You missed the, "His take is off, its not accurate."

Some JAG posing as "injury expert"... not a surgeon, not an MD.

8 weeks at the very minimum, 12 weeks would be prudent... but prudence has escaped Texan's medical/training staff in the past.

Field. Can walk now, maybe jog in a week or so. But cutting is the test... ~5 weeks to even begin testing cutting. Then live action cutting with guys going at your feet will really tell the tale.
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Well **** that sucks. Well I guess we'll soon find out how good mallett/Hoyer really is....
 
If CnD is right (and he usually is) it means Arian wil miss the first 8 regular season games and hopefully return after the bye. That will be too late. The situation is exacerbated by our not getting Thomas. The season is toast.
 
Seegara said:
If CnD is right (and he usually is) it means Arian wil miss the first 8 regular season games and hopefully return after the bye. That will be too late. The situation is exacerbated by our not getting Thomas. The season is toast.
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Does that mean you're done with the Texans and TexansTalk until next season?
 
Seegara said:
If CnD is right (and he usually is) it means Arian wil miss the first 8 regular season games and hopefully return after the bye. That will be too late. The situation is exacerbated by our not getting Thomas. The season is toast.
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Wow! How many millions have you made from sports betting? Does your information come from the spirit realm, from time travel, or are you simply smarter than everyone else?
 
dalemurphy said:
Wow! How many millions have you made from sports betting? Does your information come from the spirit realm, from time travel, or are you simply smarter than everyone else?
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I'm betting on none, none of the above and no
 
thunderkyss said:
& this is the main reason I want to get this straight in my head. Eventually it will be reported as close, or the Texans will throw out a date he's expected to return. & inevitably "some of us" will want to add a couple to a few more weeks to whatever the Texans say, "Just to be safe."

So if recovery can be as quick 4 weeks... but we shouldn't expect him to start cutting until 5 weeks (week 1 of the regular season) any return to practice before week 2 should be seen as "rushing"?

However, he'll be doing rehab daily with a trained physical therapist, who will be rationing his activity & monitoring his progress. If they determine he is ready to begin cutting at week 4 are they rushing, or are they letting the body decide?
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Take the first report of any return date as Unrealistic Optimism so you don't get your hopes up too quickly.
 
Marshall said:
Take the first report of any return date as Unrealistic Optimism so you don't get your hopes up too quickly.
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My angle is a little different from unwarded optimism. The thing I'm trying to stave of is the, "Give him a few more weeks" thing. Like Clowney. He was originally supposed to take 9 months to recover. He had surgery Dec 8. OB said we're hoping to get him in practice August 17.

Jan 8 = 1 month
Feb 8 = 2 months
March 8 = 3 months
April 8 = 4 months
May 8 = 5 months
June 8 = 6 months
July 8 = 7 months
August 8 = 8 months
August 17 = 8.5 months

Now, I don't know what "return to practice" means, but it most likely would be limited... giving him 3 weeks to get to 100% participation, which would conclude the 9 month recovery.

But we've got guys who want to put him on the PUP list "just to be safe."
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
As I communicated to you, for someone to have mistaken "torn away from the bone" findings on MRI for findings of a run-of-the-mill "sports hernia, that would mean that the medical staff had to have had the equipment boy doing the reading.



Those "torn from the bone" reports coming from several of the local media still makes me strongly lean towards the major injury being the complete avulsion of the proximal adductor longus muscle tendon from the pubic bone. Until I see otherwise, reattachment with bone anchors is what I would suspect was the treatment. If so, to see Arian Foster in a game in 3-6 weeks would be unrealistic. Eight weeks would still be pretty iffy. Closer to around 12 weeks if you want to give him the best chance to perform, and see him stay on the field for at least awhile.
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Equipment personnel reading MRI's?!?! Yikes!! #groingate, here we come!!?
CnD, thanks for your patience with us moerons. Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Some of you guys amaze me with the doom and gloom already. "The season is toast" - the season has not even started yet.
I might be a little pessimistic if Kubiak was still coaching. But as we saw last year, OB is not Kubiak. How far we came last year with having to use 4 different QBs, the players actually playing a full 60 minutes and not just one half of a game, the changes they now make during a game when something was not working.

Give the team a chance. They may just surprise you.

After all it is just entertainment, not life or death.
 
Where are the people that said me and a couple of others were STUPID for wanting to trade him this offseason? They were probably the same ones that were saying RB shouldn't be high up on the list during the draft.
 
mussop said:
Where are the people that said me and a couple of others were STUPID for wanting to trade him this offseason? They were probably the same ones that were saying RB shouldn't be high up on the list during the draft.
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It's still stupid.

We'll have to see how the season plays out. He can still come back & play 8 games & lead us on a pretty good play off run. Arian has carried this offense for the last four or five years, unless you think you've got someone to take his place... QB or RB... you don't trade him.

Had we drafted Melvin Gordon... then I could see trading Arian, though Gordon isn't proven.
 
Grams said:
Some of you guys amaze me with the doom and gloom already. "The season is toast" - the season has not even started yet.
I might be a little pessimistic if Kubiak was still coaching. But as we saw last year, OB is not Kubiak. How far we came last year with having to use 4 different QBs, the players actually playing a full 60 minutes and not just one half of a game, the changes they now make during a game when something was not working.

Give the team a chance. They may just surprise you.

After all it is just entertainment, not life or death.
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I appreciate your position and while not yet a D&G fan, I think many of those are not willing to accept that just because the 3 or more likely 2 QBs are better that the offense will be better. There is the higher concern of not having Foster for 13 games as last season. Another concern is we thought LG would belong to a much improved Sua'fila but that does not appear to be the case..so far.

Many expected a WR to step in for AJ and although I believe Washington will be very good and the overall corps will be sufficient, I am still a mite twitchy.
 
mussop said:
Where are the people that said me and a couple of others were STUPID for wanting to trade him this offseason? They were probably the same ones that were saying RB shouldn't be high up on the list during the draft.
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3030529-slide-wufrozj.png


You posting on a message board about trading Foster had nothing to do with him getting hurt. Correlation doesn't equal Causation.
 
mussop said:
Where are the people that said me and a couple of others were STUPID for wanting to trade him this offseason? They were probably the same ones that were saying RB shouldn't be high up on the list during the draft.
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I don't recall whether I said it was stupid. I think it was a bad and unrealistic idea. We weren't going to get anything and I think it's a bad idea to count on a rookie.

But no, I thought both your camp and don't draft a RB high were bad ideas. I wanted a RB drafted on a 1 year overlap with Foster.
 
mussop said:
Where are the people that said me and a couple of others were STUPID for wanting to trade him this offseason? They were probably the same ones that were saying RB shouldn't be high up on the list during the draft.
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Healthy Foster is one of the best in the NFL, no one could of saw a half season ending injury before the season started coming. Yes he always has some little nagging issues, but that's expected with a work horse like him. Still think it would of been dumb to trade him. So here's one you can point at.
 
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Let's take a close look at Clowney and his reported routine sports hernia surgery.:

6/13/14 sports hernia surgery

7/27/14 very limited participation in 1st day of TC

8/2/14 left limited practice with ice on upper thigh/groin/hip area ( likely postoperative groin aggravation; local media speculated "hip pointer" which would most likely have been secodary to continued early postoperatively affected core mechanics)

8/9/14 1st preseason game, handful of snaps could not turn and struggled turning in coverage or when having to change direction/cut on rush.

8/16/14 2nd preseason game, 9 snaps, looked decent straight line, could not change direction/cut or move against OL resistance

9/21/14 leaves a limited participation practice after a few minutes with concussion

8/23/14 3rd preseason game, did not play (coincidentally affording additional postoperative rehab time)

8/25/14 4th preseason game, did not play (coincidentally affording additional postoperative rehab time)

9/4/14 1st regular season game, left in 2nd quarter with knee injury after limited snaps still showing the same post-surgical limitations (outside of in unobstructed rushes) when he encountered resistance from an OL or when trying to bend the edge as noted in preseason; his only stat was 1 assisted tackle (did his altered mechanics contribute to his knee injury?)


OLB does not continually place as much a stress on a sports hernia repair as does a running back for reasons that should be obvious.


In the case that Arian's reports are significantly "tainted" and IF this ends up being a "routine" sport hernia, he could see the field in 1 week (tongue in cheek)..........because anyone can be thrown out there after any injury at any time. Would this be considered an intelligent approach to his rehab? Then 3-6 weeks for a running back? With a long history of core problems (back surgery) and significant recurrent soft tissue injuries? Eight weeks may be more prudent to ease ANY player into a full blown environment following this type of surgery. But a hard driving running back.........especially one with Foster's history?........it's unlikely to see what you would want to see from him at that time or for some time after. Push too hard if mechanics are still too compromised, and you relegate him back to spectator status.
 
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thunderkyss said:
It's still stupid.

We'll have to see how the season plays out. He can still come back & play 8 games & lead us on a pretty good play off run. Arian has carried this offense for the last four or five years, unless you think you've got someone to take his place... QB or RB... you don't trade him.

Had we drafted Melvin Gordon... then I could see trading Arian, though Gordon isn't proven.
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Well obviously if you trade him RB becomes a priority in the offseason and the draft. Duh!
 
EllisUnit said:
Healthy Foster is one of the best in the NFL, no one could of saw a half season ending injury before the season started coming. Yes he always has some little nagging issues, but that's expected with a work horse like him. Still think it would of been dumb to trade him. So here's one you can point at.
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Well considering his health was the main reason we wanted to trade him I would say you're wrong and we did see it coming. And lol according to you he is an elite talent and others say we couldn't of gotten anything from him. This board is all over the place.
 
mussop said:
Well considering his health was the main reason we wanted to trade him I would say you're wrong and we did see it coming. And lol according to you he is an elite talent and others say we couldn't of gotten anything from him. This board is all over the place.
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I didnt say you couldn't get anything for him, and hard to deny that when he is healthy he is one of the best RBs in the NFL.
 
Grams said:
Some of you guys amaze me with the doom and gloom already. "The season is toast" - the season has not even started yet.
I might be a little pessimistic if Kubiak was still coaching. But as we saw last year, OB is not Kubiak. How far we came last year with having to use 4 different QBs, the players actually playing a full 60 minutes and not just one half of a game, the changes they now make during a game when something was not working.

Give the team a chance. They may just surprise you.

After all it is just entertainment, not life or death.
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Ummm... check your history dude.

The last time used four different QBs (Schaub, Delhomme, Leinart, and T.J. Yates), we won the division, for the first time ever - Under Kubiak.

So actually O'Brien failed to do as well as Kubiak did with basically the same core squad.
 
False Start said:
I haven't read through the whole thread, but has the subject of Ray Rice been brought up?
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Yeah it's been talked about. I personally wouldn't mind bringing him in for a season or two, and he will be pretty cheap since no one is willing to give the man a 2nd chance. Come on i mean what man hasn't smacked his wife around a little bit :fostering:

"I HAVEN'T"
 
EllisUnit said:
Yeah it's been talked about. I personally wouldn't mind bringing him in for a season or two, and he will be pretty cheap since no one is willing to give the man a 2nd chance. Come on i mean what man hasn't smacked his wife around a little bit :fostering:
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I'd bring him in because I think he's super motivated to show he can still play. And from what I've heard he's learned his lesson and his wife and her fam have forgiven him. This would be a good opportunity for the Texans to show they can give a reformed guy a second chance.

And I've never laid a hand on a woman in my life.
Well.... not counting spankings that were requested
:)
 
All reports are Rice isn't happening here. I'm looking for him possibly in Cleveland to reunite with his old RB coach Wilbert Montgomery. They've had injuries at the position and aren't happy at all with West.
 
ObsiWan said:
Ummm... check your history dude.

The last time used four different QBs (Schaub, Delhomme, Leinart, and T.J. Yates), we won the division, for the first time ever - Under Kubiak.

So actually O'Brien failed to do as well as Kubiak did with basically the same core squad.
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:um: I don't see the comparison, can you elaborate please?
 
playa465 said:
:um: I don't see the comparison, can you elaborate please?
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You might want to ask the person who made the comparison in the first place. Grams said last year wouldn't have happened under Kubiak and then illustrated with 'how far they went using 4 QBs.' Implication being OB had done something Kubiak hadn't/wouldn't have done - win with 4 QBs. Problem is Texans & Kubiak, with 4 QBs, went to the playoffs and won a game in 2011.
 
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