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Arian Foster reported to have serious groin injury

Dr. Chao seems to have locked into the "sports hernia" diagnosis, with his 4-6 week return. First of all, most sports hernia rehabs don't see the player return to game situations before 8 weeks without showing noticeable deficits. Dr. Choa has evidently concluded, as many on this board have concluded, that since Foster was evaluated and will be operated on by the nation's foremost "sports hernia" specialist, he must have a sports hernia and will be operated on as such. Well, being very familiar with Dr. William Meyers expertise, I assure you that it extends to all facets and classes of adductor tears/injuries.

Furthermore, the "pulled from the bone" scenario does not preclude that there could be associated additional "sports hernia" disruption (As I related to Playoffs, who included that information in one of his posts).
 
Texans must wait one month to place Arian Foster on IR designated to return

A procedural note for those wondering when roster moves involving Arian Foster can be made:

Though the Texans have to see where things are after he undergoes surgery to repair a torn groin, there's a chance they'll need to place him on injured reserve with a designation to return. That would mean Foster missed six weeks of practices and would be able to come back to play after eight weeks of the regular season.

If that's the path the Texans decide to take, they'll have to wait until Sept. 6 at 3 p.m. CT. That is when teams can begin to place players on their IR/designated to return list. Until then, Foster would count against the Texans' 90-man roster.

I was asked about placing him on the physically unable to perform list, where linebackers Jadeveon Clowney and Akeem Dent currently are. To be on that list a player has to begin training camp there. It's not an option for Foster.​
 
steelbtexan said:
Yep, and many called for a RB to be taken high. I wanted David Johnson because I thought he could also contribute from the slot.
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If you recall some of the draftnik threads, TPN and I went back and forth on whether or not it made sense to take a RB with our first pick. I was for it and was all in on Todd Gurley until Doc CNNND enlightened me regarding his knee issues. After the Rams snagged him I was silently hoping we'd get Gordon but SD snapped him up right before our pick.
No one else was worth a "first day" pick (rds 1-2) IMO.
 
Lambert said:
Dr Chao, apparently an experienced "Sports Dr." said:

  1. Will Arian Foster need groin MUSCLE repair surgery?
Unequivocally, no. He will not have groin muscle repair surgery. Even if the muscle is torn in two, it cannot be repaired. Healthy muscle tissue won’t hold suture; torn muscles can’t either. If he has a groin muscle tear it usually is referring to the adductor group. Undoubtedly such an injury will be allowed to heal without surgery. It is likely that platelet rich plasma (or even stem cell) injections could be used.

Ten minutes later, the report that Arian Foster would have surgery came out............:wacko:
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Read this like a lawyer. He is making a distinction between various injuries which are lumped together and called groin injuries. He is simply saying that a MUSCLE injuries do not need surgery since they are ineffective and have practical problems holding sutures. This refines the type of injury AF has to non muscle injuries if they determine surgery is needed. So we can deduce that it is neither a muscle nor one of those muscle related adducter injuries if neither makes one a candidate for surgery.

Don't assume Dr Chao is wrong. Rather use his knowledge to deduce what specific injury AF really has until it is revealed by a credible and knowledgeable source.
 
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CloakNNNdagger said:
If that happens, I'm going to take a vacation from this MB until I become rehabilitated. No way he comes back week 1 except as a spectator. I have my strong doubts that if he ends up IR with designation to return, it will not be a waste of the designation.
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Don't beat around the bush; are you saying you think he's done? ...for good?
 
What was BoB's line when talking about injuries last year? Nothing deadly...or something like that?
 
ObsiWan said:
If you recall some of the draftnik threads, TPN and I went back and forth on whether or not it made sense to take a RB with our first pick. I was for it and was all in on Todd Gurley until Doc CNNND enlightened me regarding his knee issues. After the Rams snagged him I was silently hoping we'd get Gordon but SD snapped him up right before our pick.
No one else was worth a "first day" pick (rds 1-2) IMO.
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Someone else mentioned that was the second time SD jumped ahead of us to take our RB.... Ryan Matthews (no big deal here) & Melvin Gordon (we'll see how that turns out).
 
ObsiWan said:
Don't beat around the bush; are you saying you think he's done? ...for good?
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If his surgery has correctly been estimated as a 3-6 month recovery via McClain, someone with the Texans is expecting a potentially hard/less predictable return to play. They are hardly known for ever "overpredicting" recovery times. I gave it "at least 3-4 months" with the limited information given (surgery for reattachment of the adductor to the bone). Unless the information released is entirely unreliable, as I've stated before, "designated to return" status may end up a waste of that designation...........as if he does manage to return, I would not get too giddy about the performance level he manages to demonstrate. When and if he returns this year, I fully expect that poor mechanics (whether from natural guarding due to his recovery [compensatory] or due to other chronic injuries he has sustained throughout his career) will rear its ugly head once again, with blunted performance and continued high potential for significant injuries for the rest of his career.
 
I notice Arian Foster is only signed through the 2016 season and is due to become an unrestricted free agent after next season. Surely by then we'd be moving on to a younger back going into 2017? Is it possible to release Arian next off-season or is it best to hope he stays healthy and just try to get one more big year out of him?

I notice the dead cap space money is only $2.5 million if we release him next year (before his final season). Not nearly as bad as the $5 million in dead money if we released him now, or the $7 million and $13 million in dead money had he been released the past two off-seasons.

Going into next off-season we can finally make some easier decisions without money being too much of a factor. Sort of the same thing goes for Brian Cushing but we all expect him to perform at an All Pro level in 2015.

I love me some Arian Foster as much as the next Texans fan but his body is breaking down way too much. I'm trying to find some peace of mind and just assuming the worst and parting ways with him next year could definitely be an affordable option.

Going into 2017 we're going to have some pretty good cap space. We could be major players in free agency during that off-season. I hope we can build a Super Bowl contender during J.J. Watt's prime years. As some of you have said already this 2015 season may already be a lost cause. But I think our defense will be special and we can still compete for an AFC wild card spot. I think 10-6, looking at our schedule, is possible even without a so-called franchise quarterback or running back on the roster.
 
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Bulls on Parade said:
I notice Arian Foster is only signed through the 2016 season and is due to become an unrestricted free agent after next season. Surely by then we'd be moving on to a younger back going into 2017? Is it possible to release Arian next off-season or is it best to hope he stays healthy and just try to get one more big year out of him?

I notice the dead cap space money is only $2.5 million if we release him next year (before his final season). Not nearly as bad as the $5 million in dead money if we released him now, or the $7 million and $13 million in dead money had he been released the past two off-seasons.

Going into next off-season we can finally make some easier decisions without money being too much of a factor. Sort of the same thing goes for Brian Cushing but we all expect him to perform at an All Pro level in 2015.

I love me some Arian Foster as much as the next Texans fan but his body is breaking down way too much. I'm trying to find some peace of mind and just assuming the worst and parting ways with him next year could definitely be an affordable option.

Going into 2017 we're going to have some pretty good cap space. We could be major players in free agency during that off-season. I hope we can build a Super Bowl contender during J.J. Watt's prime years. As some of you have said already this 2015 season may already be a lost cause. But I think our defense will be special and we can still compete for an AFC wild card spot. I think 10-6, looking at our schedule, is possible even without a so-called franchise quarterback or running back on the roster.
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Releasing Foster after the 2015 season would create a $2.3m cap hit via dead money. I think it is very possible this is the last year we see Foster in a Houston uniform.
 
Wow McNair sounding off:

via McClain
"Can't say I'm surprised. It seems like every year he's had a soft tissue injury. We keep our fingers crossed."
 
Troy Chapman said:
Wow McNair sounding off:

via McClain
"Can't say I'm surprised. It seems like every year he's had a soft tissue injury. We keep our fingers crossed."
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"So we gave him a multi-year deal knowing this and expecting him to get injured. Oh well! You win some you lose some!"

Sometimes this franchise can be so frustrating in their approach.
 
Troy Chapman said:
Releasing Foster after the 2015 season would create a $2.3m cap hit via dead money. I think it is very possible this is the last year we see Foster in a Houston uniform.
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Yeah that's not bad at all. It works for sure. I was worried he was signed for another three or four years with those bigger dead money cap penalties. He is signed through 2016 but if he's released after this season the Texans are still in a great spot with their salary cap. We will probably invest a high draft pick (rounds 1, 2 or 3) on a running back in the 2016 draft to be in a better position to move on without Arian Foster.

We can see what Alfred Blue has to offer us in 2015. He seems like he's ready to receive the bulk of the carries. Maybe Chris Polk can put that 5'11, 225-pound body to good use as well and surprise us. I'm actually excited about the future of the Texans. Regardless of what our record is in 2015 it's going to be fun watching. This is probably the first time in years that I'm not too stressed about the Houston Texans going into a season. I just feel more calm about them for some reason.
 
House of Pain said:
"So we gave him a multi-year deal knowing this and expecting him to get injured. Oh well! You win some you lose some!"

Sometimes this franchise can be so frustrating in their approach.
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We signed him back in Mar. 2012 after he'd had a grand total of one injury causing him to miss the last 3 games of 2011. 90% of his injuries have been post contract.

Sometimes fans can be so frustrating in their approach.
 
It's pretty clear that the Foster era is just about over. He's about to turn 29, has averaged 311 touches per year over the last 5 seasons, and consistently acquires injuries to his lower body. He's wearing down and we need to find a replacement ASAP.
 
This is how it works. It's almost time for Arian Foster to head off into the sunset and join Andre Johnson and Matt Schaub as "former Texans". It sucks but that's how things work. They had a little-bitty run of success but it didn't really come together like we wanted so years wasted, careers faded, and time to move on.

Maybe, just maybe if we're lucky this year (very lucky) Mallet, Savage, (or Hoyer, stop laughing!) will step up and become the QB we need and the one we deserve. That's where my crazy optimistic hopes are resting right now. We often think in terms of "Triplets" and those fall apart one piece at a time. Arguably our first attempt at a set was Carr/AJ/DD (Dominick Davis) but Carr didn't work out, DD didn't last very long, and AJ was left hanging. Version 2.0 was Schaub/AJ/Foster and they had some limited brief success but now the last one left is on his way out. If one of our potential QB's works out then we're on Mallet-Hoyer-Savage/Hopkins/______ and we need to fill that blank in soon.

on the subject of our potential QB's I'm thinking that of course we keep all three this year and the Mallet/Hoyer runner up is #2 but I'm thinking that if Savage isn't making Hoyer (or Mallet) at least look expendable by the start of this season then I don't see the point in a 3 year project. Next year I expect him to be the #2 and pushing the starter hard unless one of these guys transforms into a no-question franchise QB unexpectedly. Savage is a nice project but projects need to reach their conclusion and either succeed or it's time to move on to the next project.

But if we got a QB on our roster and Hopkins stays on track we're really only missing the part of the Triplet equation that a) is easiest to find, b) takes the most contact/abuse, and c) because of that should be added last to the equation. Foster is really the last holdover from the previous group so it's not like he was going to be in our long term plans anyway.
 
Troy Chapman said:
Releasing Foster after the 2015 season would create a $2.3m cap hit via dead money. I think it is very possible this is the last year we see Foster in a Houston uniform.
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Agreed. It also frees up $7M against the cap. He's gone.
 
Playoffs said:
I'm curious, what happens if we release him this year?
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Post 152 this thread Troy responding to my comment:

"Actually team would save $6.4m this year, and take on $2.3m in '16"

I think I'd be all over that as it opens a roster spot and it appears from what Doc says Foster will basically be no help.
 
badboy said:
Post 152 this thread Troy responding to my comment:

"Actually team would save $6.4m this year, and take on $2.3m in '16"

I think I'd be all over that as it opens a roster spot and it appears from what Doc says Foster will basically be no help.
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Needs to be done before 53 man roster cut down if they choose to do it.
But based on what the team is saying, I would be shocked if that happened.
 
badboy said:
Even if he does not play significantly this season?
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Salary becomes guaranteed if on the roster Week 1 of the season.

Putting him on IR-Return opens up a roster spot on the 53 man roster. Is there a player out there that you could get by having the extra $6.4m in cap space? Probably not. No reason to release him just for cap savings/roster spot this year. The dead money cost will still be there in 2016 if you release today or the day after the Superbowl in 2016. Keep him on the roster and hope you get 5-6 games out of him.
 
All that said... if OB can get this team in the play offs & Arian can get back on the field in December, I like our chances.
 
Troy Chapman said:
Salary becomes guaranteed if on the roster Week 1 of the season.

Putting him on IR-Return opens up a roster spot on the 53 man roster. Is there a player out there that you could get by having the extra $6.4m in cap space? Probably not. No reason to release him just for cap savings/roster spot this year. The dead money cost will still be there in 2016 if you release today or the day after the Superbowl in 2016. Keep him on the roster and hope you get 5-6 games out of him.
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Understand your point but I would sign Thomas leaving $4.4 and use that to deepen roster with players like Pierre Thomas that teams cut this next month. You don't have to look for a $6.4 m RB.
 
Troy Chapman said:
Salary becomes guaranteed if on the roster Week 1 of the season.

Putting him on IR-Return opens up a roster spot on the 53 man roster. Is there a player out there that you could get by having the extra $6.4m in cap space? Probably not. No reason to release him just for cap savings/roster spot this year. The dead money cost will still be there in 2016 if you release today or the day after the Superbowl in 2016. Keep him on the roster and hope you get 5-6 games out of him.
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Two questions for you:

1. If they released him prior to the season, wouldn't there have to be an injury settlement representing the estimated # of weeks of the 2015 regular season he'd miss due to the injury, and wouldn't that amount be counted against the cap?

2. IF I'm wrong about the injury settlement in question #1, and there is no injury settlement, wouldn't they be better off (strictly from a cap standpoint) going ahead and cutting him now? Granted, the dead money doesn't change, but wouldn't the 2015 base salary savings ($6 Million per Overthecap.com) simply be rolled into the 2016 cap amount if not spent this season?
 
ChampionTexan said:
Two questions for you:
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Link

When a player gets hurt on the field or off the field, is his contract guaranteed? When so many players get hurt in training camp, are they then paid for the rest of the season?

Farmer: An injured player gets paid for as long as he's unable to play, no matter what his contract says. A team can't release an injured player until he's cleared. ...

There are also injury settlements, which must be agreed to within five days of a player being placed on injured reserve.
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markn said:
Bob McNair's comments today really annoy me. Admission that you know this is likely, yet refusal to do anything to mitigate. It's outright negligence and in other businesses people would be fired for such mismanagement.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...n-foster-has-a-soft-tissue-injury-every-year/
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I think they have made attempts, remember Tate was here until last year and Blue (looks like Foster physically but..) was drafted too and we brought in Polk to mix it up. I too feel the pain as we're going to have a new starting QB, lost our star RB (hopefully temporarily) and still don't know the effects of no more AJ. But all that can be focused on now is moving forward with the options.
 
playa465 said:
I think they have made attempts, remember Tate was here until last year and Blue (looks like Foster physically but..) was drafted too and we brought in Polk to mix it up. I too feel the pain as we're going to have a new starting QB, lost our star RB (hopefully temporarily) and still don't know the effects of no more AJ. But all that can be focused on now is moving forward with the options.
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That's fine, but if you don't examine the mistakes and learn from them then how will you ever improve? I'm not suggesting everyone mopes around going "woe is me", but "next man up" should just be a front. If the management of this club are not asking themselves "how did we let ourselves get into this mess" then they don't deserve to run our club. This city deserves better and should demand better.
 
markn said:
That's fine, but if you don't examine the mistakes and learn from them then how will you ever improve? I'm not suggesting everyone mopes around going "woe is me", but "next man up" should just be a front. If the management of this club are not asking themselves "how did we let ourselves get into this mess" then they don't deserve to run our club. This city deserves better and should demand better.
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What was the mistake? What lesson should have been learned? What is the mess they are in? What actions should have been taken to mitigate?
 
sandman said:
What was the mistake? What lesson should have been learned? What is the mess they are in? What actions should have been taken to mitigate?
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Do you deny that we're in a bad position, and one that could have been avoided?
 
markn said:
Do you deny that we're in a bad position, and one that could have been avoided?
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Injuries happen (often with AF), but you can't necessarily bank on them. IMHO, the Texans should bring in another back (I'm all for Ray Rice) but I have faith that the coaching staff will game plan according to the strengths of the players they have at their disposal and put the team in a position to win. When healthy (yeah, I know...big when), AF is one of the most dynamic players in the league. You don't just walk away from a player like that
I guess I don't understand what the problem. Are you Rick Smith bashing and saying this is all his fault? I think they brought in good help at RB in Chris Polk, so he wasn't completely oblivious to AF's injury history. I would add Hilliard, but I'm on the fence with him. Been reading good and bad on his TC so far.
 
markn said:
Do you deny that we're in a bad position, and one that could have been avoided?
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I'm pretty sure he just gave some examples of the team attempting to find a future replacement for Foster that just didn't work out (or haven't developed yet).

After all, Foster wasn't Foster until he replaced an injured Steve Slaton in 2010 (In 2009 he only got 50 carries or so). Steve Slaton had a preseason injury and Foster ended up stepping up that year
 
Yeah, I'm probably just Rick Smith bashing. I wanted a feature back in the draft, and I thought we should have drafted Bridgewater. He didn't go the way I wanted and it's all turned to **** (IMO).

I'm just dooming.
 
markn said:
Do you deny that we're in a bad position, and one that could have been avoided?
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Injuries happen (often with AF), but you can't necessarily bank on them. IMHO, the Texans should bring in another back (I'm all for Ray Rice) but I have faith that the coaching staff will game plan according to the strengths of the players they have at their disposal and put the team in a position to win. When healthy (yeah, I know...big when), AF is one of the most dynamic players in the league. You don't just walk away from a player like that
I guess I don't understand what the problem. Are you Rick Smith bashing and saying this is all his fault? I think they brought in good help at RB in Chris Polk, so he wasn't completely oblivious to AF's injury history. I would add Hilliard, but I'm on the fence with him. Been reading good and bad on his TC so far.
 
I think markn is suggesting that he wanted an all-pro backup RB for when Foster inevitably went down.
 
A lot of us feel like the Texans get their season wrecked every year when someone goes down hurt but that happens to all but a handful of teams every year. Every single year some teams have a guy or guys go down hurt and they either overcome it or they don't. Every year somebody is trying to overcome a busting draft pick or a departed veteran star/superstar. Every season some teams have a star or key player they depend on struggle and hit the wall never to return as the guy they thought had position locked down.

We're far from unique and until we can take the adveristy and overcome it we're just not there yet.
 
PapaL said:
I think markn is suggesting that he wanted an all-pro backup RB for when Foster inevitably went down.
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Pre-salary cap, that was doable. LOL I think he nailed it in post 238. It hurts to lose AF and I think a lot of fans are seeing doom and gloom now. I just don't see the point in blaming Rick Smith.
 
PapaL said:
I think markn is suggesting that he wanted an all-pro backup RB for when Foster inevitably went down.
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Our best bet is to invest a high round draft choice on a running back in the 2016 NFL Draft. First, second or third round, in particular. We should have probably done that in this past draft but hopefully we take drafting that position more seriously in the next one.

Alex Collins, RB from Arkansas is a guy I'd like to select. He's likely going to be a late first-round pick, to anywhere in the second round. I doubt he'll drop to the third round.

North and south guy with some speed and power. I like him a lot.
I'll be scouting this guy very closely for the Texans this year.

 
PapaL said:
I think markn is suggesting that he wanted an all-pro backup RB for when Foster inevitably went down.
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Yeah, baby I want it all!

Look, I'm on record in here as wanting to select Bridgewater in the draft before last, and I'm on record as wanting to spend a high pick on a back this time. We've done neither and have a hot mess at QB and now a (predictably) decimated RB situation. Does this mean I know better than the club's brain trust? Of course not, but when a naive fan like me can see these glaring holes, I struggle to comprehend why management cannot. Or can, but choose to sit on their hands.

I feel miserable about our chances for the upcoming season now and am undoubtedly overreacting. I'm suffering chronic frustration and an acute bout of itoldyousoitis. Props to you for seeing the future in a positive light.
 
markn said:
Yeah, baby I want it all!

Look, I'm on record in here as wanting to select Bridgewater in the draft before last, and I'm on record as wanting to spend a high pick on a back this time. We've done neither and have a hot mess at QB and now a (predictably) decimated RB situation. Does this mean I know better than the club's brain trust? Of course not, but when a naive fan like me can see these glaring holes, I struggle to comprehend why management cannot. Or can, but choose to sit on their hands.

I feel miserable about our chances for the upcoming season now and am undoubtedly overreacting. I'm suffering chronic frustration and an acute bout of itoldyousoitis. Props to you for seeing the future in a positive light.
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I'm curious as to how you know that the Texans have a hot mess at QB and how you know that none of the current RB's on the roster can't pick up the slack? Do you have inside info you aren't sharing? For all any of us know, Mallett or Hoyer could be HOF caliber QB's just looking for the right situation, The same could be said for the RB situation. Unknowns don't mean failures. See Tom Brady, for an example.
 
DocBar said:
I'm curious as to how you know that the Texans have a hot mess at QB and how you know that none of the current RB's on the roster can't pick up the slack? Do you have inside info you aren't sharing? For all any of us know, Mallett or Hoyer could be HOF caliber QB's just looking for the right situation, The same could be said for the RB situation. Unknowns don't mean failures. See Tom Brady, for an example.
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No, no inside info. I don't "know" anything, just stating an opinion. One, incidentally, I desperately hope is wrong.
 
markn said:
No, no inside info. I don't "know" anything, just stating an opinion. One, incidentally, I desperately hope is wrong.
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This is a crappy time of the season for fans. It's all up and down every day, based on TC reports. Let's just see how the season plays out. I, for one, have a lot of faith in OB. I'm loving this game plan concept after so many years of "yawn, I know the next play" Kubiak teams.
 
markn said:
Yeah, baby I want it all!

Look, I'm on record in here as wanting to select Bridgewater in the draft before last, and I'm on record as wanting to spend a high pick on a back this time. We've done neither and have a hot mess at QB and now a (predictably) decimated RB situation. Does this mean I know better than the club's brain trust? Of course not, but when a naive fan like me can see these glaring holes, I struggle to comprehend why management cannot. Or can, but choose to sit on their hands.

I feel miserable about our chances for the upcoming season now and am undoubtedly overreacting. I'm suffering chronic frustration and an acute bout of itoldyousoitis. Props to you for seeing the future in a positive light.
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I hear you. Sort of. I mean this time after Foster's rookie season the RB situation looked bleak. Then Arian breaks out on game one, goes on to lead the league in rushing...

& the team goes 6-10.

Who knows how it's going to turn out? It's not like Adrian Peterson took last year off to polish his Super Bowl rings... or Demarco Murray, or Jamal Charles, or Shady McCoy.

& blaming the Texans for spending money on Arian instead of whatever... when Rick Smith lands a big name FA, then I'll complain about spending money on the best players this team has ever had.
 
thunderkyss said:
I hear you. Sort of. I mean this time after Foster's rookie season the RB situation looked bleak. Then Arian breaks out on game one, goes on to lead the league in rushing...

& the team goes 6-10.

Who knows how it's going to turn out? It's not like Adrian Peterson took last year off to polish his Super Bowl rings... or Demarco Murray, or Jamal Charles, or Shady McCoy.

& blaming the Texans for spending money on Arian instead of whatever... when Rick Smith lands a big name FA, then I'll complain about spending money on the best players this team has ever had.
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I agree, i don;t understand why so many keep saying this and that about Fosters contract. He was one of the top RBs in the NFL for 4 seasons, and still a top RB when healthy. Maybe surgery will take care of this groin problem for good. He still has 2-3 good production years IMO.
 
I am reading this as I should. A muscle always has a tendon and ligaments. When the good Dr. Chao says he will not have groin muscle surgery, I take that to mean the muscle itself, the ligaments, and the tendons that attach the muscle to a bone. When someone has a torn bicepts or a torn Pect, and surgery is performed, they are performing torn muscle surgery. Don't equivocate just to kiss az with Chao.

A "sports hernia" is damage to the adductor muscles.
 
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