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Arian Foster reported to have serious groin injury

Serious question, what is the test for hydration? A "pee in the cup" test? I've never heard of a hydration test before.

Only 1% of dehydration in an athlete can affect his performance significantly. Many sports organizations screen for dehydration using simple non-invasive techniques. The most common are:

Comparing urine color (from a sample container) with a urine color chart. A light “straw” color (1 or 2) is indicative of being well hydrated while a dark color (5 or 6) represents significant dehydration. The darker the color the more concentrated the urine, because the body is trying to retain water when hydration is not adequate.

Measuring urine "specific gravity" (measures the true concentration of the urine) with a refractometer or even with a specialty dipstick is less subjective than comparing urine color and is also commonly used. [For color analysis or specific gravity, midstream urine should be collected for consistency and accuracy.]

Monitoring daily weight at similar times of day under similar circumstances (meals, BMs, etc) also give us information re. the state of hydration. If a player has lost more than ~1 pound from the previous 24 hour measurement, it will be due to water deficiency, since it is virtually impossible for the human body to gain or lose more than ~1 pound of actual muscle/fat weight in a 24 hour period. Hence, if a player has weighed in with a 4 pound scale weight loss, ~3 pounds would have been secondary to water loss/deficiency (dehydration).
 
Question: do Texans employ sports science to prevent injury?

People wondered why Eagles sat DeMarco out of practice yesterday (hey I just do what I'm told was his response) when in fact it was revealed today they they test players for hydration before practices, he failed, which meant he couldn't practice because if not adequately hydrated it increases a players injury potential.
Was talking to Doc about this yesterday, but didn't know why he was held out then. I don't have a lot of faith in the medical/training staff. I hope OB gathers enough outside information to push for changes there. He's no doctor.

That being said, Dr CND has been predicting this. Best indicator for future injury is prior injury history, and Arian has that in spades... including a back surgery.
 
In all fairness to Foster, he had 3 seasons where we worked him to death, i mean he has had a crap ton of carries. I blame is recent nagging injuries on the coaching staff pre Kubiak, hell and even OB drove him into the ground last season.

:rolleyes: Well, I guess the cast-blaming bandwagon is up and running in high gear. If you want to climb on and take it on down the road to nowhere, go ahead. I think I'll walk.

If we're gonna play the finger-pointing game, I think I'll point mine at the person who hasn't had an injury free TC since he signed that big ass contract.
 
:rolleyes: Well, I guess the cast-blaming bandwagon is up and running in high gear. If you want to climb on and take it on down the road to nowhere, go ahead. I think I'll walk.

If we're gonna play the finger-pointing game, I think I'll point mine at the person who hasn't had an injury free TC since he signed that big ass contract.

No finger pointing, just go by the numbers the boy has been a work horse. But when healthy one of the best RBs in the game IMO.
 
Monitoring daily weight at similar times of day under similar circumstances (meals, BMs, etc) also give us information re. the state of hydration. If a player has lost more than ~1 pound from the previous 24 hour measurement, it will be due to water deficiency, since it is virtually impossible for the human body to gain or lose more than ~1 pound of actual muscle/fat weight in a 24 hour period. Hence, if a player has weighed in with a 4 pound scale weight loss, ~3 pounds would have been secondary to water loss/deficiency (dehydration).

This is how we did it when I played in college. It's amazing how much water weight OL/DL can loose in a single practice.
 
Serious question, what is the test for hydration? A "pee in the cup" test? I've never heard of a hydration test before.


This is from a mini-camp last year ...

That monitoring includes a urine sample, rookie receiver (and former Rutgers standout) Quron Pratt told NJ.com.

"Coach Chip Kelly puts a big importance on hydration," Pratt said. "We take a test every morning. You wake up, pee in a bottle and see what your hydration levels are. Coach Kelly harps on that every day: hydration, hydration, hydration.

"It shows on the field. You don't see anybody getting IVs. It's crazy when you think about all the running we do. People are out there flying around."

Such collections have become more common around the NFL. (The urine samples are only used to evaluate hydration, so it has nothing to do with the league's drug policy.) The test strips cost only a few cents.

http://www.nj.com/eagles/index.ssf/...ting_the_heat_in_minicamp_maybe_its_what.html
 
Well, isn't this the New England way? Running back by committee.

There CAN be a certain advantage to that.

The problem is that we have QB by committee, too.

The pessimism comes from the fact that the Texans are 2-12 the last 4 seasons in games AF doesn't have a carry, as opposed to 33-21 when he does.

yeah, I do not get how folks do not comprehend pessimism when our superstar RB goes down for half a season.

According to NFLN, Foster has been the most productive RB from scrimmage since 2010. He is second in rushing TDs since 2010. And then there is the win/loss record that you mentioned, as well.

You don't just *magically* replace that kind of production with some hope-for scrub off the bench. It just doesn't work that way in the NFL. Losing Foster is huge when we are already weak at QB.

Every year fans hope their team could win a championship. We know that's not going to happen with the 2015 Texans. It's just not. So, do we hope for a playoff contender? Just hope that they can secure a wildcard? Is that what we are optimistic for now? Hope that they might be able to squeak into the playoffs and that's our big payoff?

I'm not advocating staying pessimistic, but c'mon, it should be understandable within 24-48 hours of hearing the bad news. It comes from caring about the team. If I was apathetic, the bad news would not mean a damn thing to me.
 
This may sound like it runs counter to my appreciation of Foster, but it really isn't. This is a practical observation: If the success of your team is going to be dependent on a superstar, you really don't want it to be a running back. He's the guy who absorbs the most punishment, and has the shortest career in the game.

But they're also the easiest to replace too right? Hardly anyone wants to take them in the first round anymore & it's only the best of the best that are getting big contracts.

Unless we're changing our opinion on that.... again.
 
The problem is that we have QB by committee, too.

yeah, I do not get how folks do not comprehend pessimism when our superstar RB goes down for half a season.

According to NFLN, Foster has been the most productive RB from scrimmage since 2010. He is second in rushing TDs since 2010. And then there is the win/loss record that you mentioned, as well.

You don't just *magically* replace that kind of production with some hope-for scrub off the bench. It just doesn't work that way in the NFL. Losing Foster is huge when we are already weak at QB.


Every year fans hope their team could win a championship. We know that's not going to happen with the 2015 Texans. It's just not. So, do we hope for a playoff contender? Just hope that they can secure a wildcard? Is that what we are optimistic for now? Hope that they might be able to squeak into the playoffs and that's our big payoff?

I'm not advocating staying pessimistic, but c'mon, it should be understandable within 24-48 hours of hearing the bad news. It comes from caring about the team. If I was apathetic, the bad news would not mean a damn thing to me.

Now DB, don't be like that now. You just need close your eyes, take a deep breath, and say the words "next man up" ten times, and then everything will be fat, dumb, and happy again. :rolleyes:

They haven't even made it to first preseason game and it's already shaping up to one long, long, long season. There will be no running game, it will one dimensional with questionable QBs, it will be constant 3 and outs, the punter will wear out his leg from kicking it 20 times a game, and the defense will get worn out from being on the field all the time, and the injuries will pile up because of it.

And yet every loss, you'll have the same usual suspect dickheads that will come on here, and say "We lost the game because of the bad play-calling".

F'ck me.
 
Reason for the cloudiness from the Texans on Foster today is Arian is seeking a second opinion (2011 CBA allows this, didn't before) and the team is really out of the loop until he informs them of how he's going to handle this.
 
But they're also the easiest to replace too right? Hardly anyone wants to take them in the first round anymore & it's only the best of the best that are getting big contracts.

Unless we're changing our opinion on that.... again.

A great running back should not be undervalued. That whole narrative has been spun out of control, from trend to cliche to now just being silly.

Every team wants a great running back. Teams with outstanding QB's don't sweat it as much. Teams with outstanding QB's don't sweat a whole lot.
 
A great running back should not be undervalued. That whole narrative has been spun out of control, from trend to cliche to now just being silly.

Every team wants a great running back. Teams with outstanding QB's don't sweat it as much. Teams with outstanding QB's don't sweat a whole lot.

I agree. My last post was tongue & cheek. 3 down multipurpose workhorses aren't a dime a dozen. They're worth first round picks & big contracts.
 
But they're also the easiest to replace too right? Hardly anyone wants to take them in the first round anymore & it's only the best of the best that are getting big contracts.

Unless we're changing our opinion on that.... again.

EDIT: I just realized this is smartassery. Carry on.
 
:fostering:

Unless Doc or someone else in the medical field wishes to elaborate on this subject matter, just like the Texans, we're in the dark. Other than Clowney's post op treatments to stimulate muscle recovery these are all treatments post injury. I'm talking about preventive sports medicine advances (my son is going to Oregon in this field) to reduce risks of injury. Foster has a history of them stemming back to College & reason why he was UDFA.

Why some teams approach this issue more aggressively than others, when data suggests it's warranted is beyond me
If it is shown to be helpful, then I suspect it will get a lot of attention. But most fads are more smoke and mirrors than science (snake oil, magnets, copper, etc.). Recognizing a need to prevent injuries is far different than finding measures that actually work. But I sincerely hope they are successful.
 
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This tweet confirms what we(outside of Chao) already knew, see bolded red...

John McClain ‏@McClain_on_NFL
Foster seeing Dr. William Meyers, a foremost expert on severe groin injuries, in Philadelphia. Needs surgery.

Arian Foster groin injury: Top 10 questions answered
Dr. David Chao

What is going on with Arian Foster? How does a premiere NFL running back make one cut in the first practice of training camp and end up needing potential surgery?

First of all, let me be clear that I have not examined Foster or seen his MRI. As many of you know, I often opine on diagnosis off of injury video. In this case, I have not seen and I am not aware of any available film (maybe HBO will have it when Hard Knocks debuts next week).

I am purely going off of limited media reports, history of the player and my two decades of NFL experience as a team physician. I call it “insider knowledge” of professional football sports medicine, but it certainly is not “insider information”. I do know the Texans medical staff well, like I do most of the medical personnel in the league; however, I would not insult a medical professional’s integrity by asking for injury specifics on a player. As a practicing orthopedic surgeon, when I am consulted on a NFL athlete, I no longer tweet or write on his injury as that would be unfair, unethical and against HIPAA rules. Enough of the disclaimers.

What is Arian Foster’s injury?
Reports say groin, but what does groin mean? It can mean one of several adductor muscles/tendons, hip injuries, the rectus abdominis or associated core muscle. Most commonly it is the adductor group that is injured. This affects the ability to accelerate and cut, two obvious key requirements for a running back.

Will Arian Foster need groin MUSCLE repair surgery?
Unequivocally, no. He will not have groin muscle repair surgery. Even if the muscle is torn in two, it cannot be repaired. Healthy muscle tissue won’t hold suture; torn muscles can’t either. If he has a groin muscle tear it usually is referring to the adductor group. Undoubtedly such an injury will be allowed to heal without surgery. It is likely that platelet rich plasma (or even stem cell) injections could be used.

Will Arian Foster need groin TENDON repair surgery?
Highly unlikely that a groin tendon torn on one cut would ever need suturing. As I tweeted initially, it is very unusual to need to repair any acute adductor tear. Unlike muscle, tendon can be repaired as it is hearty enough to hold stitches. However, there usually is little reason to sew it. The adductor longus tendon is the most common one to rupture. Even when this is retracted (pulled away) by several centimeters it usually scars in and heals well on its own. I have treated NFL running backs non-surgically with this injury and they have gone on to full recovery. The only scenario of a groin tendon repair is in the case of a complete avulsion where multiple adductor tendons pull off the pelvis usually with a piece of bone attached. This just doesn’t happen very often. In fact, I do not recall a case of it happening to me in 20 years of NFL experience.

Are the early reports of Arian Foster needing groin surgery incorrect?
Not necessarily as I am not saying he definitely won’t need surgery. I am only saying he won’t need groin/adductor muscle repair surgery. He is very unlikely to need groin/adductor tendon repair surgery. He could need other types of groin surgery or he could go with conservative care.

What is the most common surgery performed on an adductor?
Believe it or not, the procedure most often performed on the groin is a release or lengthening surgery where the adductor is too tight. In some ways, a chronic groin problem is self-treated by a tear. It would not typically make sense to repair a chronic adductor tendon that has torn.

Will Arian Foster need surgery of any kind?
If he does need surgery, it will likely be sports hernia surgery. This is sometimes referred to as groin surgery or core muscle repair, but it is much different than adductor repair surgery described above. This procedure gives quicker recovery as one typically is not waiting for structural healing. If surgery is needed, this is the one that Texans fans want to hope for.

Didn’t Arian Foster have groin issues last season?
Yes, and this is why he might need sport hernia type surgery to treat his chronic groin issues. He was injured in a Week 9 loss to the Eagles that subsequently limited him last season. The current groin injury may be a continuation of last year’s issues which may lead the Texans to consider sports hernia surgery now. It may be smarter to cut their losses now, as opposed to dealing with groin issues all season long.

When will Arian Foster return to play?
He could return as early as 4-6 weeks; however, the Texans might play it safe with their bell cow running back and wait an extra week or two to avoid season long re-aggravation. This estimate is applicable to non-operative groin treatment as well as sports hernia surgery. If he truly needed groin tendon repair surgery, Foster would miss at least three months and the season would be in some jeopardy. This is unlikely and would be the worst-case scenario.

Will Arian Foster return to be 100%?
I believe he will. The only question is when. Fortunately, this injury is not likely to end his career. However, this injury may be part of the wear and tear that eventually catches up to all NFL running backs.

Didn’t teammate Jadeveon Clowney have surgery on his groin too?
Yes. Prior to his rookie year, the number one overall pick had mid-June sports hernia surgery. He made it back for the first training camp practice five weeks later, though his rehab continued. His subsequent knee injury requiring microfracture surgery was not directly related to the groin injury.

In no way am I second-guessing the quality Texans medical staff. If anything I am first-guessing, as we have yet to hear the treating doctors chime in. In fact, I have utmost confidence that his team doctors will make the right decision for the player and the team. Here, I am only giving general parameters based on my medical experience. Only his treating physicians know the full story right now.
 
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WELL IT LOOKS LIKE IT MIGHT NOT BE AS BAD AS INITIALLY THOUGHT. IF HE HAS SURGERY FOR A SPORTS HERNIA HE WILL BE CLOSE TO READY TO GO WEEK 1 ACCORDING TO DOC.
 
Dr William Meyers: I'm sorry Arian, your groin requires surgery and you will require substial rehabilitation.

Arian Foster: I'd like a second opinion

Meyers: Okay, your poetry lacks emotional intensity.
 
This is such a downer and it's why I was really high on Todd Gurley in rd 1. I never thought Foster would be healthy all year and I wanted a very good complimentary back that could easily take over... but I didn't expect this either. Of course, not the Texans fault they didn't grab Gurley. St. Louis picked him up right before us, but in hindsight that was a cruel twist of fate.

On this particular team, Foster is probably the most important player on the team as far as directly impacting wins and losses. Even more important that JJ just because of the number of touches and how he impacts the entire offense.

I think this is the Foster death knell. They are paying him way too much to be injured a good part of the time. They will hopefully get him back later in the season and ride him until he craps out again and then my guess is he's gone.

This team was primed to give the Colts at least a run for their money. I don't see that happening now. Kinda bummed. I mean I couldn't even go into pre-season game one without having my optimism entirely drained. I also wonder how much the offense changes, if any?
 
Dianna Marie Russini ‏@diannaESPN · 2h2 hours ago
Before Philly removed the tender on Chris Polk, Texans had interest in trading. When Philly finally released him-Texans were all over him

Dianna Marie Russini ‏@diannaESPN · 2h2 hours ago
Look for him to be the first one to see if he can hold down the fort while Foster is out. #Texans


Did now know that. (first tweet)
 
WELL IT LOOKS LIKE IT MIGHT NOT BE AS BAD AS INITIALLY THOUGHT. IF HE HAS SURGERY FOR A SPORTS HERNIA HE WILL BE CLOSE TO READY TO GO WEEK 1 ACCORDING TO DOC.

No, Chao is off base. My guess trying to earn some $$$ from local radio talk shows by pumping sunshine. (he tweeted his article to every Texans media member :thinking:)

It's surgery.
 
No, Chao is wrong. My guess trying to earn some $$$ from local radio talk shows by pumping sunshine.

It's surgery.
Not all surgeries are created equal. A return to play in 2015 has not been in doubt in any story based on actual information. The question seems to be whether recovery will take long enough to place him on IR/R or just keep him inactive on gameday to start the season. I have no reason to doubt Chang, particularly since he is dealing with general matters concerning groin injuries and not specifics of AFs particular case. Sometimes, and I hope this is the case, a severe injury is easier to treat than a minor nagging injury. I don't know if that is the case here, but there is good reason to be optimistic.
 
I think the Texans can go 5-3 through the first 8 games and still be in an AFC wild card race hunt without Arian Foster. Our defense is going to keep us in a lot of games where our offense may only need to score 13 or 17 points to win. Making the playoffs will be tough but we should still be in the mix going into the second half of the season.
 
I wonder if his second opinion is in conjunction with a pre-op visit. I had that happen once when I was diagnosed with a severed tendon while at A&M and my doctor in Orange, much more experienced, said I just had loose joints and told me to go home. I never had another problem.
 
Can I make up stories like the national press and the Chronicle?

An anonymous androgynous source has informed me that JJ Watt has been secretly taking snaps at RB and is expected to be a three threat runner, blocker and receiver out of the backfield. But this will not reduce his play numbers on Defense or Special Teams. It is believed he agreed to do anything he could to help the team. He's a good team player!

He will also be an integral part of the new 5 TE formation when he moves out to a slot position to mimmick the 5 WR sets of the west coast offense.
 
No, Chao is off base. My guess trying to earn some $$$ from local radio talk shows by pumping sunshine. (he tweeted his article to every Texans media member :thinking:)

It's surgery.

Well hopefully it's just hernia surgery, that would be good. But we are Texans fans and we know we never get lucky...
 
I hear people talking about him being out 8 games and would not return until after the break. Is that just the IR/Drt? Has that designation been given yet?
 
Can I make up stories like the national press and the Chronicle?

An anonymous androgynous source has informed me that JJ Watt has been secretly taking snaps at RB and is expected to be a three threat runner, blocker and receiver out of the backfield. But this will not reduce his play numbers on Defense or Special Teams. It is believed he agreed to do anything he could to help the team. He's a good team player!

He will also be an integral part of the new 5 TE formation when he moves out to a slot position to mimmick the 5 WR sets of the west coast offense.
yes you can make up anything you want but you should try to create sources like I have to make your fiction..er facts more creditable
 
I hear people talking about him being out 8 games and would not return until after the break. Is that just the IR/Drt? Has that designation been given yet?

I DONT THINK ANYONE TO THIS POINT IS SURE EXACTLY WHAT KIND OF SURGERY HE IS HAVING. COULD BE HERNIA WHICH WOULD BE GOOD, WOULD BE GOOD TO GO NEAR WEEK 1.
 
I DONT THINK ANYONE TO THIS POINT IS SURE EXACTLY WHAT KIND OF SURGERY HE IS HAVING. COULD BE HERNIA WHICH WOULD BE GOOD, WOULD BE GOOD TO GO NEAR WEEK 1.


I don't think he has a "Hernia"--a bit of gut pushing through the muscle wall. He has what is referred to as a "Sports Hernia". A rupture, strain or tear of one of 4 adductor muscles (Usually the Adductor Longus) that attach the Femur to the Pubic bone, and serve to bring the legs together. Recovery from "Sports Hernia" surgery can take up to 3 months.
 
Was talking to Doc about this yesterday, but didn't know why he was held out then. I don't have a lot of faith in the medical/training staff. I hope OB gathers enough outside information to push for changes there. He's no doctor.

That being said, Dr CND has been predicting this. Best indicator for future injury is prior injury history, and Arian has that in spades... including a back surgery.

Which is why Rick should've been forward thinking and drafted a RB higher. Fat chance
 
Which is why Rick should've been forward thinking and drafted a RB higher. Fat chance

Wouldn't it have been great if XSF took over at LG & just dominated so much that guys like Blue & Hilliard could rush for 4 or 5 yards a pop?
 
I DONT THINK ANYONE TO THIS POINT IS SURE EXACTLY WHAT KIND OF SURGERY HE IS HAVING. COULD BE HERNIA WHICH WOULD BE GOOD, WOULD BE GOOD TO GO NEAR WEEK 1.

If that happens, I'm going to take a vacation from this MB until I become rehabilitated. No way he comes back week 1 except as a spectator. I have my strong doubts that if he ends up IR with designation to return, it will not be a waste of the designation.
 
I hear people talking about him being out 8 games and would not return until after the break. Is that just the IR/Drt? Has that designation been given yet?
Yes, the 8 games refers to the IR-DTR. No, he has not been designated as such yet.
 
If that happens, I'm going to take a vacation from this MB until I become rehabilitated. No way he comes back week 1 except as a spectator. I have my strong doubts that if he ends up IR with designation to return, it will not be a waste of the designation.

What people need to consider is that if he does return, he still needs to get back into football shape. If we see the old Arian at all in 2015, it would likely be after game 13. On the bright side, it's still in time for post season.
 
What people need to consider is that if he does return, he still needs to get back into football shape. If we see the old Arian at all in 2015, it would likely be after game 13. On the bright side, it's still in time for post season.
Yes, there's plenty of time for him to become re-injured.
 
If that happens, I'm going to take a vacation from this MB until I become rehabilitated. No way he comes back week 1 except as a spectator. I have my strong doubts that if he ends up IR with designation to return, it will not be a waste of the designation.

I think this is in reference to Dr. Chao interview posted earlier in the thread. Any thoughts on it?
 
I heard on Sirius/xm that the surgery is to reattach tendon to bone. Designated IR/R. Any thoughts, CnD?
 
Any thoughts on it?

Any thoughts, CnD?

I think this still rules from Dr CND, pulling it forward...

Foster had been dealing with significant "groin" problems last year. I believe that most that have followed my posts know that I have been pointing out Foster's progressive inability to stay on the field and that I have been even more dubious of Foster's ability to stay on the field this year, following his long history of recurrent soft tissue(hamstring, calf, groin) injuries.

If this "groin problem stems from multiple adductor muscle tears, repair will require at least a 3-4 month rehab. Surgery is quite rare for this injury unless recurrent. Conservative treatment is the rule..........but if unrelenting pain occurs, surgery becomes a reluctant option in that it commonly will not resolve the problem.

If this "groin" problem stems from a sports hernia, full rehab may span anywhere from ~2-3 months.

And let's not forget that "groin" injury can be felt in the groin, but be a reflection of a hip joint injury, such as a labrum tear.

I guess we will all have to wait until an MRI results or the type of surgery is ever disclosed.

It is quite obvious to me that his multiple and recurrent injuries have led him to problems with ongoing body mechanics problems and compensatory injuries.
 
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Dr Chao, apparently an experienced "Sports Dr." said:

  1. Will Arian Foster need groin MUSCLE repair surgery?
Unequivocally, no. He will not have groin muscle repair surgery. Even if the muscle is torn in two, it cannot be repaired. Healthy muscle tissue won’t hold suture; torn muscles can’t either. If he has a groin muscle tear it usually is referring to the adductor group. Undoubtedly such an injury will be allowed to heal without surgery. It is likely that platelet rich plasma (or even stem cell) injections could be used.

Ten minutes later, the report that Arian Foster would have surgery came out............:wacko:
 
Dr Chao, apparently an experienced "Sports Dr." said:

  1. Will Arian Foster need groin MUSCLE repair surgery?
Unequivocally, no. He will not have groin muscle repair surgery. Even if the muscle is torn in two, it cannot be repaired. Healthy muscle tissue won’t hold suture; torn muscles can’t either. If he has a groin muscle tear it usually is referring to the adductor group. Undoubtedly such an injury will be allowed to heal without surgery. It is likely that platelet rich plasma (or even stem cell) injections could be used.

Ten minutes later, the report that Arian Foster would have surgery came out............:wacko:

Notice that is on the muscle itself. Later he left open the possibility of ligament or sports hernia surgery.
 
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