Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

Troy Chapman said:
In addition to Travis Kelce having micro fracture surgery and coming back strong, a much bigger name revealed he had micro fracture surgery in 2012. Darrell Revis

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4155/darrelle-revis
Click to expand...

Jets CB Darrelle Revis considered retiring following 2012 knee injury

New York Jets cornerback Darrelle Revis was so distraught by a severe injury knee three years ago that he considered quitting football -- at the age of 27.

"I did think about retiring," Revis told Sports Illustrated in a cover story released this week. "I had never been seriously injured before, and I didn't know how to handle it."

Revis also revealed in the interview that he underwent microfracture surgery to repair the torn ACL. Previously, it was reported as reconstructive surgery. A microfracture procedure is more complicated than typical surgery and requires a longer recovery time.

His uncle, former NFL defensive lineman Sean Gilbert, convinced Revis to eliminate any thoughts of retirement.

Gilbert, one of the cornerback's closest confidantes, told the magazine, "Most every player is thinking about retirement while he's playing because [football is] a bona fide grind. I told him, 'You can think that. But you've got to get over it.'"

Darrelle Revis appears on this week's Sports Illustrated in a pose similar to Joe Namath on a 1965 cover. Courtesy Sports Illustrated
The knee injury, suffered in Week 3 of the 2012 season, was one of the factors that prompted the Jets to trade Revis to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Revis admitted he didn't feel 100 percent healthy until Week 4 or 5 last season, when he was playing for the New England Patriots. He still managed to make the All-Pro team, becoming a vital piece on the Patriots' Super Bowl championship team.

As expected, the Patriots didn't exercise a $20 million option, making him a free agent. Revis could've re-signed with the Patriots, but he signed a blockbuster contract to return to the Jets -- five years, $70 million, including $39 million fully guaranteed.

Revis enjoyed his one season in New England Patriots...​
 
Troy Chapman said:
In addition to Travis Kelce having micro fracture surgery and coming back strong, a much bigger name revealed he had micro fracture surgery in 2012. Darrell Revis

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4155/darrelle-revis
Click to expand...
After undergoing offseason microfracture surgery on his right knee, there was some degree of intrigue about whether KC Chiefs tight end Travis Kelce still had the explosiveness he flashed before the injury. His explosive 69-yard touchdown catch — and dance — in the second quarter of the Chiefs’ 41-39 victory in the preseason opener against the Cincinnati Bengals on Thursday

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article1169921.html#storylink=cpy
*****
Good find PO. I took the liberty of adding this link about the Chiefs Kelce.
Hey PO, this stuff is encouraging and gives one hope about a favorable or even very favorable recovery for Clowney, but I realizw nothing has happened yet and we got a long ways to go with JD. Still like I say, it offers a ray of hope.
 
IDEXAN said:
...
Hey PO, this stuff is encouraging and gives one hope about a favorable or even very favorable recovery for Clowney, but I realizw nothing has happened yet and we got a long ways to go with JD. Still like I say, it offers a ray of hope.
Click to expand...

Not to pee in anybody's Wheaties, but JD had the added lateral meniscus tear that compounds the odds against him. And at his size/strength and positional requirements, he will put a comparatively significantly higher load on his repaired knee. Hoping for the best.
 
Playoffs said:
Not to pee in anybody's Wheaties, but JD had the added lateral meniscus tear that compounds the odds against him. And at his size/strength and positional requirements, he will put a comparatively significantly higher load on his repaired knee. Hoping for the best.
Click to expand...

And to really be Debbie Downer, it's his right knee which for the position we want him to play is his primary cut knee.
 
the more i read up on microfracture, the less i think clowney will be what we expected him to be as the no 1 pick. he already didnt have any pass rush moves, and now a bum knee?
 
PUP list to start training camp.

Wouldn't be surprised if they were cautious and he misses first six games of season on PUP list also.
 
What does Clowney being on the PUP list now have to do with him being active week 1, other than squeezing an extra guy into camp to evaluate?
 
Off season pup list means at any time player can be ruled active, but if that designation occurs after a certain date then the earliest player could rejoin team would be week 7?

And team still doesn't address knee shredder turf at NRG. I wonder if JJ tore his knee up in a seam if they would do something then.
 
Uncle Rico said:
Off season pup list means at any time player can be ruled active, but if that designation occurs after a certain date then the earliest player could rejoin team would be week 7?

And team still doesn't address knee shredder turf at NRG. I wonder if JJ tore his knee up in a seam if they would do something then.
Click to expand...

There is a whole thread about it, and the above conclusion is nowhere near a consensus. Plus, the fact that the team is not moving on from the turf at NRG should at least give you an indication that it isn't nearly the problem you think it is.
 
kingtexan said:
PUP list to start training camp.

Wouldn't be surprised if they were cautious and he misses first six games of season on PUP list also.
Click to expand...

Hmmm... I would be surprised. This was part of the plan all along. They told us he wouldn't be working out & practicing with the rest of the guys. They're hoping he can practice the week before the season starts.

If he doesn't, then I'll start to worry. If he's not practicing after the KC game, then I would think regular season PUP list is a possibility.

But then that would mean something went terribly, terribly wrong.
 
Mollywhopper said:
What does Clowney being on the PUP list now have to do with him being active week 1, other than squeezing an extra guy into camp to evaluate?
Click to expand...
I'd say it's just Billy managing expectations, except that would seem to be contradicted by him continuing to claim they are still shooting for the regular season opener vs. the Chiefs for Clowneys return to action on the field ?
 
Troy Chapman said:
Players on
PUP/Active count towards the 90 man roster count.
Click to expand...
Unless something has changed in the last 2 years, I don't think that's accurate:
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/8/22/4647088/nfl-roster-cut-deadlines-rules-preseason
Coming into training camp, each team is allowed to stock its
roster with 90 players. Anybody on the physically unable to perform
list or injured reserve doesn't count toward that number. However,
once they return, someone must be cut to make room.
Click to expand...
 
PapaL said:
Unless something has changed in the last 2 years, I don't think that's accurate:
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/8/22/4647088/nfl-roster-cut-deadlines-rules-preseason
Click to expand...

That article doesn't really clarify which PUP designation they are referring to. I know Reserve/PUP doesn't count, but I thought Active/PUP counted. Dent & Clowney both given the Active/PUP, and Quess & Bonner on Active/NFI. All 4 should count since given the Active designation. The official NFL waiver wire stated that the player counted towards the Active List.

I'll do some reading in the CBA to get clarification.
 
Last edited:
Playoffs said:
Fact check, Dr CND...

What does it mean when a player enters camp on PUP?

Articular cartilage is the Holy Grail

Am I reading these wrong, or is he inferring articular cartilage "regrowth"...? :thinking:
Click to expand...

Looks to me like Dr. Chao made a flip flop on the implication/start time of PUP for Clowney from the 1st article to the 2nd.

The articular growing procedure he is talking about is basically taking some articular cartilage from an nonessential area, then culturing it in a lab. This process of growing the culture in limited quantity takes ~ 5 weeks. It is then sent back to the surgeon for implantation. Depending on the size and location of the cartilage injury and rehabilitation, low impact activity will not be begun before 6 months following treatment......High impact sports at 8-9 months for smaller injuries or 9-12 months for larger injuries. High impact pivoting sports as what would be required by Clowney is not a good idea and should generally not occur before 12-18 months. Best success has been with 1 cm or less isolated lesions. The company presents success rates to be ~ 90%. But talking to many surgeons, this is grossly overinflated with success many times loosely defined, and are not specifically made up of professional athletes, let alone NFL players. Following this procedure, at least 50-60% of these patients require additional surgeries. It is only the occasional patient that will have long-lasting results. The one interesting fact is that this technique strongly depends on joint stability or the correction of such, for any semblance of success to be expected. One of the specific elements that ensures poor outcomes is the instability caused by loss of meniscus, which Clowney (as I have posted in the past also negatively affecting outcomes of microfracture surgery) has already undergone.
 
Troy Chapman said:
I know Reserve/PUP doesn't count, but I thought Active/PUP counted...
Click to expand...
Teams freely use the temporary PUP designation to get some future roster protection in case an injury lingers or regresses. There are actually two categories of PUP (active and reserve) with different implications.

Active/PUP is utilized in the preseason when a player doesn’t pass a physical from a football related injury. The player remains on the active 90-man roster during this time. He can pass a physical at any time and come off the list and start practicing.

Reserve/PUP is saved for the regular season. Here the player does not count towards the then 53-man roster. This designation requires missing a minimum of six but a maximum of 12 weeks. Once activated, there is up to a three-week grace period for practice before being the roster spot counts.​
 
OK so what is benefit to player or team? If he counts and no player can be added, why not just sit Clowney as he heals?
 
I wonder if being on the PUP list results in him being off-limits to Hard Knocks. :D

Going by Doc's criteria for recovery times, (and I can't think of the last time he's been wrong) bringing Clowney back at anytime during this season would be bringing back too early. They should just PUP him for the rest of the season and be done with it.

I can't figure out why they keep making statements, by OB in particular, that infers differently, (unless the purpose behind them is just to keep Clowney motivated) but if there is one thing that's irritating me about OB, it's that.
 
badboy said:
OK so what is benefit to player or team? If he counts and no player can be added, why not just sit Clowney as he heals?
Click to expand...

That's what this does. Active/PUP keeps the player from practicing but still on the active list; with this he can resuming practicing at any point when cleared by the team. If he was placed on Reserve/PUP during camp, he would not be allowed to practice for the remainder of preseason.
 
Troy Chapman said:
That's what this does. Active/PUP keeps the player from practicing but still on the active list; with this he can resuming practicing at any point when cleared by the team. If he was placed on Reserve/PUP during camp, he would not be allowed to practice for the remainder of preseason.
Click to expand...
let me clarify my question..there seems to be no difference in Clowney not practicing either way. If not, then why PUP him now? If not on PUP and told not to practice he still is on active list.
 
badboy said:
let me clarify my question..there seems to be no difference in Clowney not practicing either way. If not, then why PUP him now? If not on PUP and told not to practice he still is on active list.
Click to expand...

I see what you asking now, fair question. I'll have to ask around.

*Update* When a player fails the team physical, the team must designate the player as PUP or NFI (Active or Reserve).
 
Last edited:
infantrycak said:
Doc didn't say that.
Click to expand...

Well then Doc, if you're reading this, let me ask your opinion straight up. With all things considered, are you concerned that the team is risking his overall recovery by activating him at anytime this season?
 
Marcus said:
Well then Doc, if you're reading this, let me ask your opinion straight up. With all things considered, are you concerned that the team is risking his overall recovery by activating him at anytime this season?
Click to expand...

Here's the summation. Write Clowney off. He might come back for a mediocre season or two but he's toast.
 
infantrycak said:
Here's the summation. Write Clowney off. He might come back for a mediocre season or two but he's toast.
Click to expand...
I sure hope you are wrong, but that may be how it turns out and gosh it could even be worse than that, far worse.
I was actually encouraged by the report about Darrel Revis, though I do appreciate that he does play a much different position than Clowney and he's also a substantially smaller man.
 
Marcus said:
Well then Doc, if you're reading this, let me ask your opinion straight up. With all things considered, are you concerned that the team is risking his overall recovery by activating him at anytime this season?
Click to expand...

I've posted on this subject numerous times, so will not go into detail. But, the way I see it, despite his surgeon's advocacy, Clowney does not seem ready for TC and therefore will not be ready for the first regular season game. If he is thrown into the mix and he is not ready, he is likely to create a worse situation for himself than not. If he is PUPped/Reserve, he cannot practice with the team until after the 6th week. Typically, a player in this type of situation of solely from not having practiced (and then, of course, he will not have practiced with the team at all in 2015) whether uninjured or from a lesser injury, does not become productive until week 10 (if even played in an earlier game).

Once Clowney sees the field he may not look like the athlete we expected pre 2014 surgeries, or he may show a spirt, then peter out over time.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I've posted on this subject numerous times, so will not go into detail. But, the way I see it, despite his surgeon's advocacy, Clowney does not seem ready for TC and therefore will not be ready for the first regular season game. If he is thrown into the mix and he is not ready, he is likely to create a worse situation for himself than not. If he is PUPped/Reserve, he cannot practice with the team until after the 6th week. Typically, a player in this type of situation of solely from not having practiced (and then, of course, he will not have practiced with the team at all in 2015) whether uninjured or from a lesser injury, does not become productive until week 10 (if even played in an earlier game).

Once Clowney sees the field he may not look like the athlete we expected pre 2014 surgeries, or he may show a spirt, then peter out over time.
Click to expand...
I really hope they PUP him. I'm in crazy, overprotective mode with JDC.
 
All $22 million guaranteed. If decided he is not going to be 90% regardless of time table, why not play him? If he cannot play cut him.
 
badboy said:
All $22 million guaranteed. If decided he is not going to be 90% regardless of time table, why not play him? If he cannot play cut him.
Click to expand...

Because even if he isn't 90% now, the long term goal would be to have him be ready. Clowney has a future with us beyond 2015, no reason to rush him. We did just fine without him last season, we can manage another season without him if needed. Why risk is future because a few were impatient?
 
Troy Chapman said:
That article doesn't really clarify which PUP designation they are referring to. I know Reserve/PUP doesn't count, but I thought Active/PUP counted. Dent & Clowney both given the Active/PUP, and Quess & Bonner on Active/NFI. All 4 should count since given the Active designation. The official NFL waiver wire stated that the player counted towards the Active List.

I'll do some reading in the CBA to get clarification.
Click to expand...

I didn't think there was a difference until final cuts but who knows. I'm sure the CBA is a mess to read.
 
amazing80 said:
Because even if he isn't 90% now, the long term goal would be to have him be ready. Clowney has a future with us beyond 2015, no reason to rush him. We did just fine without him last season, we can manage another season without him if needed. Why risk is future because a few were impatient?
Click to expand...
Clearly you disregarded "If decided he is not going to be 90% regardless of time table.." in my post. In other words he will never get to much better than he is now. There seems to be more evidence suggesting this than him healing to become a starter. You saying he has a future with us is not based on any medical fact.
 
thunderkyss said:
Hmmm... I would be surprised. This was part of the plan all along. They told us he wouldn't be working out & practicing with the rest of the guys. They're hoping he can practice the week before the season starts.

If he doesn't, then I'll start to worry. If he's not practicing after the KC game, then I would think regular season PUP list is a possibility.

But then that would mean something went terribly, terribly wrong.
Click to expand...

I would rather see him miss six games and go on to have a great career, and not be rushed back a little too soon and get injured again. No way of knowing his true status, just saying.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
I've posted on this subject numerous times, so will not go into detail. But, the way I see it, despite his surgeon's advocacy, Clowney does not seem ready for TC...
Click to expand...

When you say,"the way I see it.. " & "Clowney does not seem..."

Are you going by what's been publicly shared through the media or have you laid your own eyes on him as he worked out?

He had surgery in December. Then it was estimated it would take 9 months for his recovery.

9 months from December. Would that be end of August or beginning of September?

Weren't we expecting him to not be able to work out with the team during training camp since it starts 7 months (give or take) into a 9 month rehab?
 
kingtexan said:
I would rather see him miss six games and go on to have a great career, and not be rushed back a little too soon and get injured again. No way of knowing his true status, just saying.
Click to expand...

Just out of curiosity, why would six games be safe? Why not eight, or ten? What if 2 is more than sufficient, or one?

How do you determine how many is required versus rushing him back?

Eight months ago they said it would take nine months to recover. Everything we've heard says he's right on track, there have been no set backs. If he stays on schedule & is able to practice with the team after the nine month recovery period is over, OB says he will play week 1, but he will be on a pitch count. Maybe that's 10 snaps. Maybe 20. Maybe seven.

So it sounds like they plan on easing him back when he's ready.

Personally I'm like 'cak. I'm not expecting anything at all from him. He's like Connor Baring his rookie season. A pass rush specialist. We'll see him on third downs every now & again depending on down & distance. He'll earn playing time as we go. I doubt he'll ever earn a starting role.
 
PapaL said:
I didn't think there was a difference until final cuts but who knows. I'm sure the CBA is a mess to read.
Click to expand...

There is that's why there is the Active/PUP & Reserve/PUP designations. The CBA isn't that bad once you know which sections to look at. I've read through most of it multiple times.
 
thunderkyss said:
When you say,"the way I see it.. " & "Clowney does not seem..."

Are you going by what's been publicly shared through the media or have you laid your own eyes on him as he worked out?

Trying to pick apart my posts word-for-word hardly serves any useful purpose. I believe you know full well that I have made it clear I have no specific access to Texans players. I put together all that is available (sometimes with things not readily available), then apply it to previous personal surgical experience, contact with various appropriate surgeons, with review of established studies and papers in the related surgical literature. Seldom are my conclusions based on only one of the aforementioned.

He had surgery in December. Then it was estimated it would take 9 months for his recovery.

9 months from December. Would that be end of August or beginning of September?


Nine months is an estimate given for when a player following microfracture may be able to see the field again . This does not address player-to-player progression, level of preparedness or expected level of performance. Surgery is not an exact science that gives consistent answers. If it were, there would never be any need for your or anyone else's questions. Due to the fact that surgery, in fact, is not an exact science, one would need to purchase that very sophisticated surgical Crystal Ball, which has remained financially out of reach for me to date.

Weren't we expecting him to not be able to work out with the team during training camp since it starts 7 months (give or take) into a 9 month rehab?

I have posted numerous times that I was skeptical about Clowney's "expected" timeline, specifically due to the surgery that preceded the microfracture surgery.........the one that removed meniscus tissue, and by its very nature contributes to potential instability of the knee joint.......something that would be a negative in his rehab (not to even mention some of the lower limb mechanics problems that he was dealing with way before his first surgery that have never been addressed)
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
CloakNNNdagger said:
thunderkyss said:
When you say,"the way I see it.. " & "Clowney does not seem..."

Are you going by what's been publicly shared through the media or have you laid your own eyes on him as he worked out?
Click to expand...

Trying to pick apart my posts word-for-word hardly serves any useful purpose. I believe you know full well that I have made it clear I have no specific access to Texans players. I put together all that is available (sometimes with things not readily available), then apply it to previous personal surgical experience, contact with various appropriate surgeons, with review of established studies and papers in the related surgical literature. Seldom are my conclusions based on only one of the aforementioned.
Click to expand...

I meant no offense. I was actually hoping you happened into him at the Y or something.

CloakNNNdagger said:
thunderkyss said:
He had surgery in December. Then it was estimated it would take 9 months for his recovery.

9 months from December. Would that be end of August or beginning of September?
Click to expand...

Nine months is an estimate given for when a player following microfracture may be able to see the field again . This does not address player-to-player progression, level of preparedness or expected level of performance. Surgery is not an exact science...
Click to expand...

Again I apologize. Just trying to re-affirm the original timeline. I can't believe anyone is "surprised" that Clowney was put on the PUP list when we all knew his availability for week one is questionable. Maybe I'm looking at something wrong. I'm just looking for enlightenment.


CloakNNNdagger said:
thunderkyss said:
Weren't we expecting him to not be able to work out with the team during training camp since it starts 7 months (give or take) into a 9 month rehab?
Click to expand...

I have posted numerous times that I was skeptical about Clowney's "expected" timeline, specifically due to the surgery that preceded the microfracture surgery.........the one that removed meniscus tissue, and by its very nature contributes to potential instability of the knee joint.......something that would be a negative in his rehab (not to even mention some of the lower limb mechanics problems that he was dealing with way before his first surgery that have never been addressed)
Click to expand...


I understand. I'm right there with you, because of your previous posts.
 
thunderkyss said:
I meant no offense. I was actually hoping you happened into him at the Y or something.



Again I apologize. Just trying to re-affirm the original timeline. I can't believe anyone is "surprised" that Clowney was put on the PUP list when we all knew his availability for week one is questionable. Maybe I'm looking at something wrong. I'm just looking for enlightenment.





I understand. I'm right there with you, because of your previous posts.
Click to expand...

We're good.

In general here on the board, I simply try to put all the available pieces of the puzzles together the best I can......and try to make some sense of them that can be presented and understood on a more lay level.
 
CloakNNNdagger said:
We're good.

In general here on the board, I simply try to put all the available pieces of the puzzles together the best I can......and try to make some sense of them that can be presented and understood on a more lay level.
Click to expand...
You do remember the old EF Hutton TV commercial, right C&D ? Well whenever you say something about the injuries of key players like Cushing or Clowney, I have aa EF Hutton moment. My impression was that you felt this preseason PUP status decision for Clowney was a
real ominous event, and it represented a significant pull back from the Texans being mostly of late being very positive about Clowney.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top