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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

Marshall

Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Clowney in minimal 2014 exposure looked really good before injury with little prep time. My 2 cents is to hold him out until game one and then pick his spots to play for first few games .
If it were me and thank God it is not, I'd plan on keeping him on the roster, but inactive on game day until after the Bye. That way you preserve the IR/Return slot for the unexpected need as Clowney uses the first half of the season as his training camp. Only then would I work him into games as the opportunity presents itself. But I'm a cautious type by nature.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
lol! Takes one to know one. :neener:

I think Playoffs description of things is most likely what is happening inside team facilities as team doctors try to appease the concerns of their patients, as well as those of their employer.
 

infantrycak

Admin & Mod
If it were me and thank God it is not, I'd plan on keeping him on the roster, but inactive on game day until after the Bye.
Not really directed to you...

If it was you (i.e. as someone on the team), you'd have a ton more information. That includes CnD and he'd readily admit that. Folks are drawing a ton of bright lines which really make no sense. One thing which should have been learned from years of CnD posts (and common sense) is these things are always in ranges of time dependent on very personal circumstances.

There are a few instances where we have enough detail to say that was likely bad judgment - e.g. Newton. Most of the rest is just disappointment turning to anger which has to find a target. People have a very hard time saying "**** happens."

lol! Takes one to know one. :neener:

I think Playoffs description of things is most likely what is happening inside team facilities as team doctors try to appease the concerns of their patients, as well as those of their employer.
I think what it shows is (a) fan cynicism/myopia and (b) selective memory/attention. Every bad result is a mistake. Good results are ignored. No comparison is made to other teams to see if the Texans are doing better or worse.
 

Double Barrel

Moderator
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I think what it shows is (a) fan cynicism/myopia and (b) selective memory/attention. Every bad result is a mistake. Good results are ignored. No comparison is made to other teams to see if the Texans are doing better or worse.
Yep. And I'd bet that it is the same with 31 other teams, but we are not in those cities to be up-to-date on the day-to-day press releases and operations of those NFL franchises. I would not doubt that fans in those cities often feel the same way about their front offices as many Texans feel about Kirby.

My own attitude is fairly ambivalent. I do not expect truth from the front office. They are often playing a game of hide and seek, not necessarily with fans, but with other teams. And at the end of the day, I'm not a doctor and I have absolutely no qualification to make such judgement calls. Which is why so many of us appreciate CloakNNNdagger's perspectives. It gives us a little insight where normally there is none.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
If the April 3rd news release is accurate and the end of training camp is the target date for Clowney's return to the football field, what this means to me is that he won't be cleared for full contact until after the final pre-season game. But I would think it also means he might be cleared for many training camp activities short of full contact. Once cleared for full contact, I would give him a minimum of a full week of practice to see if there are any negative consequences. Maybe two weeks. So I would wait until the 2nd or 3rd game, if there is no pain or swelling resulting from practice, before easing him into games, with spot action. Then after the open date, cautiously increase his work load.
 

Mollywhopper

Facilitator
Staff member
My own attitude is fairly ambivalent. I do not expect truth from the front office. They are often playing a game of hide and seek, not necessarily with fans, but with other teams. And at the end of the day, I'm not a doctor and I have absolutely no qualification to make such judgement calls. Which is why so many of us appreciate CloakNNNdagger's perspectives. It gives us a little insight where normally there is none.
Nobody does sports as a metaphor for war quite like the NFL, from the field to the front office. McNair, Smith, and O'Brien are our government and military general, 31 other cities are our warring nations, Playoffs and CND are our media and technical advisor, we constantly want more and feel entitled to information while the leaders want to withhold info in the name of security. Meanwhile we argue and debate over policy and tactics ad infinitum.

Ain't war (football) hell (heaven)?
 
got a joke for you guys.

breaking news breaking news. my sources have confirmed jd clowney out the rest of ota's with bruised labia. more info to come.
 

Marshall

Not pretty, but ALIVE!
If the April 3rd news release is accurate and the end of training camp is the target date for Clowney's return to the football field, what this means to me is that he won't be cleared for full contact until after the final pre-season game. But I would think it also means he might be cleared for many training camp activities short of full contact. Once cleared for full contact, I would give him a minimum of a full week of practice to see if there are any negative consequences. Maybe two weeks. So I would wait until the 2nd or 3rd game, if there is no pain or swelling resulting from practice, before easing him into games, with spot action. Then after the open date, cautiously increase his work load.
?????????? How do you expect anyone to get in football shape in two weeks?

But the timing is the only place we're disagreeing. You're at two weeks and I'm at two months before getting him in a game at all.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
?????????? How do you expect anyone to get in football shape in two weeks?

But the timing is the only place we're disagreeing. You're at two weeks and I'm at two months before getting him in a game at all.
I wouldn't expect him to be in football shape. Early on, he would see only spot action, mainly rushing the QB on third downs. And this is assuming he'll get several weeks of non-contact training camp under his belt. Assuming he has no set backs, he'll be starting to round into shape the last half of the season. This is, IMO, a best case scenario.
 

Marshall

Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I wouldn't expect him to be in football shape. Early on, he would see only spot action, mainly rushing the QB on third downs. And this is assuming he'll get several weeks of non-contact training camp under his belt. Assuming he has no set backs, he'll be starting to round into shape the last half of the season. This is, IMO, a best case scenario.
I think the difference is in whether he'll need 2 weeks or two months of contact work in practice before getting in a game. Even at that point, he won't be in football shape.
 

amazing80

Fire Billy O
If we can keep Clowney rested and healthy and allow him to play spot duty the first half of the season, he would be a well rested animal come the second half, just in time for the playoff push. I am all for going slow with his progress. Our defense managed without him last year and we should be even better with Wilfork and a healthy Cushing.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
If the April 3rd news release is accurate and the end of training camp is the target date for Clowney's return to the football field, what this means to me is that he won't be cleared for full contact until after the final pre-season game. But I would think it also means he might be cleared for many training camp activities short of full contact. Once cleared for full contact, I would give him a minimum of a full week of practice to see if there are any negative consequences. Maybe two weeks. So I would wait until the 2nd or 3rd game, if there is no pain or swelling resulting from practice, before easing him into games, with spot action. Then after the open date, cautiously increase his work load.
I think the difference is in whether he'll need 2 weeks or two months of contact work in practice before getting in a game. Even at that point, he won't be in football shape.
He does not have to be in football shape to get on the field for a few plays. If full contact can begin after TC he has time prior to preseason games and the four weeks of preseason and then ten days before regular season. Six weeks of full contact should tell how he will perform.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
I think the difference is in whether he'll need 2 weeks or two months of contact work in practice before getting in a game. Even at that point, he won't be in football shape.
I'm more in line with your thinking, but I don't think the Texans will take this approach if he doesn't have any setbacks. I'm thinking they will have him in a game sooner, rather than later.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
There's a reason none of us are managing an NFL Football franchise in any format or fashion.
 

Bulls on Parade

2017 Astros: Earn It!
I'm ready to see Clowney and Cushing both dominating on the field. Our linebackers will once again become a strength on defense. People say we shouldn't expect much out of Clowney this season, and I'll tame my expectations for last year's number one overall pick even though our goals for him have to be set very high at some point. But Cushing says he is feeling as good as he has in a long time. That's a good sign for the former all pro.
 

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I don't want to see Clowney out there until he's ready to go full speed ahead.
And I sure do wish he'd gotten those bone spurs taken care of while he had to be off his feet anyway.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
Your assumption is incorrect.

Dr CND has actual knowledge of how it was, how it is done in the Texans org, and how it should be done. He is an expert.

You're creating assumptions to fit your narrative.
It's not an assumption it's a fact. Its the reason why teams are so secretive with injury info in the days leading up to games. Their waiting to see how players feel before they scratch them. Guys want to play and they are willing to at the very least forfeit years of quality living after they retire to do so. Hell, You JUST watched the ENTIRE Seahawk secondary play throughout the playoffs and SB with injuries that more often than not are fixed with surgery where most docs would've recommended they not try to play with; Earl Thomas with a torn labrum, Chancellor a torn meniscus and Sherman with torn ligaments in his elbow....I'm sure their team docs recommended that they not try to play with those injuries and warned them of all the risks of potentially worsening their situation. And surely no orthopededic surgeon would be on board with a guy going out & playing a viscious contact sport like football with a bum shoulder. At the end of the day though, they were all out there playing weren't they? Are you viewing the Seahawks team docs the same way?

I just don't see how you can sit and watch these guys every sunday go out there with all kinds of knee, arm and shoulder braces on their bodies and think that team doctors have very much say in whether these guys get back on the field or not. & when you sit back & look at guys like RG3, Phillip Rivers & Jerry Rice's situation years ago, you can't possibly still believe what you wrote. I mean, ok yes, when these guys have grotesque Joe theisman-like injuries to where they clearly are unable to perform and/or are putting themselves in danger by going back out there, team docs step in, but at the point its pretty obvious to everyone they can't play. Most all other injuries and stuff though, its mostly the player and coach. Now, that's not to say that the player will in fact get back on the field, but ultimately it is up to them.

As far as JD, If he's got any kind of love for the game & professional pride, he's chomping at the bit to get back out there. He'll likely downplay the amount of pain, tightness (to a point) and lack of confidence he may have in his knee to do that as wel
 
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ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
It's not an assumption it's a fact. Its the reason why teams are so secretive with injury info in the days leading up to games. Their waiting to see how players feel before they scratch them. Guys want to play and they are willing to at the very least forfeit years of quality living after they retire to do so. Hell, You JUST watched the ENTIRE Seahawk secondary play throughout the playoffs and SB with injuries that more often than not are fixed with surgery where most docs would've recommended they not try to play with; Earl Thomas with a torn labrum, Chancellor a torn meniscus and Sherman with torn ligaments in his elbow....I'm sure their team docs recommended that they not try to play with those injuries and warned them of all the risks of potentially worsening their situation. And surely no orthopededic surgeon would be on board with a guy going out & playing a viscious contact sport like football with a bum shoulder. At the end of the day though, they were all out there playing weren't they? Are you viewing the Seahawks team docs the same way?

I just don't see how you can sit and watch these guys every sunday go out there with all kinds of knee, arm and shoulder braces on their bodies and think that team doctors have very much say in whether these guys get back on the field or not. & when you sit back & look at guys like RG3, Phillip Rivers & Jerry Rice's situation years ago, you can't possibly still believe what you wrote. I mean, ok yes, when these guys have grotesque Joe theisman-like injuries to where they clearly are unable to perform and/or are putting themselves in danger by going back out there, team docs step in, but at the point its pretty for everyone. Most all other injuries and stuff though, its mostly the player and coach. Now, that's not to say that the player will in fact get back on the field, but ultimately it is up to them.

As far as JD, If he's got any kind of love for the game & professional pride, he's chomping at the bit to get back out there. He'll likely downplay the amount of pain, tightness (to a point) and lack of confidence he may have in his knee to do that as wel
What you say is partially true. However, when it comes to getting their bell rung - meaning possible concussions - the team doc's word is law. The player can say all day long that "I'm fine, I'm fine" but if the doc thinks he had a possible concussion then player X has to sit until he passes all the concussion protocol stuff the NFLPA and the league has agreed to.
 

Mr teX

Hall of Fame
What you say is partially true. However, when it comes to getting their bell rung - meaning possible concussions - the team doc's word is law. The player can say all day long that "I'm fine, I'm fine" but if the doc thinks he had a possible concussion then player X has to sit until he passes all the concussion protocol stuff the NFLPA and the league has agreed to.
This is correct, But it's really the only instance a team doc has the authority over the HC & player to sit a guy. All other situations are either obvious to everyone that a guy can't go, or is primarily a situation where the player has to be "convinced" by the doc that its not a good idea to try to play. Good luck with that. Jerry Rice literally sawed his cast off a full 2 weeks ahead of schedule and began working out against his doctors orders/wishes (& promptly cracked his knee cap the next year). RG3 hasn't looked the same since he finished off ripping up his knee against Seattle in the playoffs & Phillip Rivers was even more of a sitting duck in the pocket playing with a torn ACL in the playoffs against NE. No doctor worth his weight in salt would've allowed any of these guys to go back out & play given their individual situations.
 

Playoffs

Hall of Fame
Second-year pass rusher Jadeveon Clowney's struggle to return from last December's microfracture surgery on his right knee. There has been speculation that Clowney, the No. 1 overall pick of the 2014 draft, might not be the same player following the surgery, but O'Brien was surprisingly optimistic.

"I think he's gonna be there for the opening game (of the regular season) against Kansas City," O'Brien said. "I think he's going to make it back, and I'm really looking forward to that. He's working very hard to get back."
OB on JD from Mike Silver's profile.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Second-year pass rusher Jadeveon Clowney's struggle to return from last December's microfracture surgery on his right knee. There has been speculation that Clowney, the No. 1 overall pick of the 2014 draft, might not be the same player following the surgery, but O'Brien was surprisingly optimistic.

"I think he's gonna be there for the opening game (of the regular season) against Kansas City," O'Brien said. "I think he's going to make it back, and I'm really looking forward to that. He's working very hard to get back."
I'm not worried about Clowney coming back, I expect him back on the field but certainly dunno when. He could be back for the Chiefs games the season opener or perhaps it will be later. My concern is how long does he remain on the field before he's hurt again or reinjures that knee ? That' what I'm worried about. If after the first several games back and he's able to function and perform and make a contribution to the defense I'm gonna be elated ! That would a significant achievement, but it'll be a real long season for JD. But let's not kid ourselves here, it's gonna be real dicey all the way.
 
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Marshall

Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I'm not worried about Clowney coming back, I expect him back on the field but certainly dunno when. He could be back for the Chiefs games the season opener or perhaps it will be later. My concern is how long does he remain on the field before he's hurt again or reinjures that knee ? That' what I'm worried about. If after the first several games back and he's able to function and perform and make a contribution to the defense I'm gonna be elated ! That would a significant achievement, but it'll be a real long season for JD. But let's not kid ourselves here, it's gonna be real dicey all the way.
If he goes straight to starting after getting cleared for full contact, then it really strains credulity when the coaches talk about the importance of Training Camp. Being cleared for full contact for the opener should not be confused with being ready and able to start or even play more than mop up minutes.

I hope there is at least a four week full contact period in practice prior to his getting significant time in a game. I'd much rather wait just a little longer to maximize his chances of being the playmaker for the longer haul we hoped he would be when we drafted him.
 

Playoffs

Hall of Fame
Tania Ganguli ‏@taniaganguli

That positivity on Clowney is nothing new, but I always take note when Cushing praises someone. He doesn't do it lightly.

Brian Cushing sounded confident Clowney would live up to his potential. Was complimentary of how he's attacked his rehab.​
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
If he goes straight to starting after getting cleared for full contact, then it really strains credulity when the coaches talk about the importance of Training Camp. Being cleared for full contact for the opener should not be confused with being ready and able to start or even play more than mop up minutes.

I hope there is at least a four week full contact period in practice prior to his getting significant time in a game. I'd much rather wait just a little longer to maximize his chances of being the playmaker for the longer haul we hoped he would be when we drafted him.
The other big news in Silver's piece: With regard to how the first overall pick of the 2014 NFL Draft is doing as he attempts to come back from microfracture surgery, O'Brien doesn't think Jadeveon Clowney will miss much, if any, of the 2015 season.

"I think he's gonna be there for the opening game (of the regular season) against Kansas City," O'Brien said. "I think he's going to make it back, and I'm really looking forward to that. He's working very hard to get back."http://www.battleredblog.com/2015/6/11/8767085/bill-obrien-decision-on-texans-starting-qb-may-be-made-before
***** Billy is optimistic or atleast hopeful that Clowney starts the season vs KC, but how Silver gets from that to this: " O'Brien doesn't think Jadeveon Clowney will miss much, if any, of the 2015 season." I see nothing said by the HC that even implies that Clowney goes thru 2015 without missing much of the season ? That's why cocachs like O'Brien are reluctant to give the media or let their players give the media much of anything because they often take it and turn it into wildly exaggerated comments.
But whenever Clowney first gets on the field be it TC or later I only hope he completes the year playing the games at the end of the season.
 

PapaL

Loose Screw
I'm usually pretty negative about players coming back from injury but for some reason, I believe in Clowney. I don't know why but the little voice in my head has said he's going to be fine and he's going to be special. Hopefully it's right.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Here's the latest on what OB had to say about Clowney. It seems to be pretty much in line with the approach on bringing him back that has been discussed here - a cautious approach. At least I hope so.

High expectations. I think the guy has worked hard. When I say high expectations, I mean for him coming back and being on schedule to start the season. Now, when he comes back to be able to practice in training camp, we don’t really know that yet. Obviously, he would have to practice some to be able to be ready to play in the Kansas City game, even if it was on a limited basis. But he’s worked extremely hard. I think he’s moving well. I think he feels better. We’ll be looking forward to seeing where he is at once we get back here at the end of July...we’re not going to rush him back and if he does come back and earn playing time all of a sudden play him 75 plays in a game. I think we’d have to be very smart about how much we play him early on.
 
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IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Wonder what the extent of his running and where his rehab is at at this point ? Last I heard he was basically just jogging on the sidelines. So I would hope by now he's running in full stride or maybe even doing wind sprints ? We are 6 months post surgery, right ?
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13066474/houston-texans-hope-jadeveon-clowney-play-week-1
***
Check out what former Broncos guard Mike Scharla has to say about Clownesys recovery. How would he know ? : he's had close to 20 knee ops including six (6) microfracture surgeries. That's right 6 !
He says, and I'm paraphrasing here, even if Clowney is cleared to play in 6 to 8 months it's going to be an 18 month project. He says the Texans should work Clowney into the linbeup gradaually as a role player and maybe he can get back o normal or close to it in 2016 because it's going to be an 18 month process if he can do it.
 

ObsiWan

Hall of Fame
Contributor's Club
I think most of us agree that, at least initially, Clowney should be on a "pitch count".
And I don't doubt it will take longer than this off-season for Clowney to play without this knee bugging him somewhat.
I just hope they don't rush him back.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Here's the latest on what OB had to say about Clowney. It seems to be pretty much in line with the approach on bringing him back that has been discussed here - a cautious approach. At least I hope so.
High expectations. I think the guy has worked hard. When I say high expectations, I mean for him coming back and being on schedule to start the season. Now, when he comes back to be able to practice in training camp, we don’t really know that yet. Obviously, he would have to practice some to be able to be ready to play in the Kansas City game, even if it was on a limited basis. But he’s worked extremely hard. I think he’s moving well. I think he feels better. We’ll be looking forward to seeing where he is at once we get back here at the end of July...we’re not going to rush him back and if he does come back and earn playing time all of a sudden play him 75 plays in a game. I think we’d have to be very smart about how much we play him early on.

Yeah, it sounds like they know what they're doing.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/13066474/houston-texans-hope-jadeveon-clowney-play-week-1
***
Check out what former Broncos guard Mike Scharla has to say about Clownesys recovery. How would he know ? : he's had close to 20 knee ops including six (6) microfracture surgeries. That's right 6 !
He says, and I'm paraphrasing here, even if Clowney is cleared to play in 6 to 8 months it's going to be an 18 month project. He says the Texans should work Clowney into the linbeup gradaually as a role player and maybe he can get back o normal or close to it in 2016 because it's going to be an 18 month process if he can do it.
Wow... six. I wonder where they were in relation to his HOF career.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Sounds to me like somebody needs to put O'Brien on the phone with Schlereth. He seems to me to be raising expectations while Stink is lowering them... from experience.
Really? Sounds like they're saying the same thing. OB is saying they hope Jadeveon will be able to practice with the team before week one or he won't play week one. & when he does come back, don't expect him to have a full load all of a sudden.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Read the Cushing thread and the low opinions some have of Cushing's performance last season, following his surgeries. Expect the same for Clowney. He'll come back and play at some point this next season, but at a level that will be a disappointment to those who don't understand the length of time it takes to fully recover. I agree with the interview that it will be 2016 before Clowney will be capable of maximizing his post operative potential.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
Read the Cushing thread and the low opinions some have of Cushing's performance last season, following his surgeries. Expect the same for Clowney. He'll come back and play at some point this next season, but at a level that will be a disappointment to those who don't understand the length of time it takes to fully recover. I agree with the interview that it will be 2016 before Clowney will be capable of maximizing his post operative potential.
I'm good with all of that. I expect him back at some point this year, but it might in a PS game, or it might be vs KC in the RS opener, but it may also not be until after 6 weeks into the RS if they need to PUP him. And when he gets back his service may be very spotty, just limited duty as a nickel edge-ruser role player, and he may not start a single game all year in the 2015 season. If that's what his year turns out to be, so be it, I can live with that. I want them to carefully manage JDs return to action for this season, just as all of us should learn to manage our personal expectations for his 2015 season.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
As long as we don't hear about his knee swelling up & having to drain fluid... I'll be happy.
 

badboy

Hall of Fame
Read the Cushing thread and the low opinions some have of Cushing's performance last season, following his surgeries. Expect the same for Clowney. He'll come back and play at some point this next season, but at a level that will be a disappointment to those who don't understand the length of time it takes to fully recover. I agree with the interview that it will be 2016 before Clowney will be capable of maximizing his post operative potential.
I will be ecstatic if Clowney equals Cush's 72 tackles, a sack and a forced fumble
 

Marshall

Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Really? Sounds like they're saying the same thing. OB is saying they hope Jadeveon will be able to practice with the team before week one or he won't play week one. & when he does come back, don't expect him to have a full load all of a sudden.
I know the surgeries are different; but, the comments on Cushing this spring, a year away from initially playing, seem to parallel Clowney's. Now as I write this, I see the parallel is not lost on others as I see the later posts just above my response screen making the same comparison.
 

thunderkyss

It's good to be me... again.
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I know the surgeries are different; but, the comments on Cushing this spring, a year away from initially playing, seem to parallel Clowney's. Now as I write this, I see the parallel is not lost on others as I see the later posts just above my response screen making the same comparison.
Has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.
 

Marshall

Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.
Except that it spurred thoughts of Cushing. But if you want only specific responses to ONLY your thought rather than a general conversation, I will stop responding to you altogether.
 

IDEXAN

Hall of Fame
As long as we don't hear about his knee swelling up & having to drain fluid... I'll be happy.
So if that happens, and gosh most of us sure hope it doesn't. But if it does does would that mean (A) it's what Scharla would call a 2-step back situation, and we need to rest Clowney for a game or so then have him resume his efforts to play this season, or is it much worse than that and likely (B) means at the very least he's gonna be very soon if not immediately IR'd for the 2015 season ?
 

texanhead08

All Pro
I am going to be surprised if he starts the season on the active roster. This is probably the worst kind of knee surgery a player can have and being cautious is the only way to go on his return to the field.
 

Thorn

Dirty Old Man
I don't think Clowny will ever be the same. But a Clowny at 3/4 ability is still better than most at full capabilities.
 


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