Maybe, but most backup QBs are not perpetual practice squad players like Keenum.
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Ryan Mallett
- Thread starter Trouble
- Start date
Maybe, but most backup QBs are not perpetual practice squad players like Keenum.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You're right, most are failed starters like Hoyer except paid less.
lol! yep. I'm trying to keep a 'happy face' about 2015, but the trend of recycled backup QBs is one that NFL history shows is usually fruitless.
IMO, Hoyer was favored over Fitz due to more physical talent; stronger arm, etc. I think there will be a true QB competition this year and the better QB will start, regardless of contract. Is Hoyer's contract significantly higher than what Fitz would've earned? I don't think so and I also see a higher upside with Hoyer, if he can stay consistent.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
I'm just going by what I saw of Mallett last preseason plus what I saw of him playing for us: I like him. I think he could be very good for us and I think he could be a quality starter.
The fact that Hoyer came in and is making more money than Mallett is problematic. I don't think it means that OB prefers Hoyer or that Hoyer is going to get the better opportunity to start. But I could be wrong. Hoyer is not a good QB but he's an OK backup.
I think the reason Mallett is making less money is because of his "I wanted to come back at any cost" frame of mind. I think he did a really bad job of negotiating and let the Texans know they could have him for cheap. So he's got the smaller contract just because the Texans knew they could get away with it.
I'm expecting Mallett to take control of the team pretty quickly and our offense to be light-years better than it was last year (as long as we can figure out the OL situation.)
But I could be seriously wrong about all of that. And that's scary. But scary is why we're fans.
The fact that Hoyer came in and is making more money than Mallett is problematic. I don't think it means that OB prefers Hoyer or that Hoyer is going to get the better opportunity to start. But I could be wrong. Hoyer is not a good QB but he's an OK backup.
I think the reason Mallett is making less money is because of his "I wanted to come back at any cost" frame of mind. I think he did a really bad job of negotiating and let the Texans know they could have him for cheap. So he's got the smaller contract just because the Texans knew they could get away with it.
I'm expecting Mallett to take control of the team pretty quickly and our offense to be light-years better than it was last year (as long as we can figure out the OL situation.)
But I could be seriously wrong about all of that. And that's scary. But scary is why we're fans.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
Well, in this case I think there's still reason for hope. Mallett is of course getting his first chance to start somewhere so there's that. Hoyer has started but it was in Cleveland which makes it hard to tell exactly how much was on him and how much was on "Cleveland".
I think there's at least a chance to stay hopeful here.
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I'm just going by what I saw of Mallett last preseason plus what I saw of him playing for us: I like him. I think he could be very good for us and I think he could be a quality starter.
The fact that Hoyer came in and is making more money than Mallett is problematic. I don't think it means that OB prefers Hoyer or that Hoyer is going to get the better opportunity to start. But I could be wrong. Hoyer is not a good QB but he's an OK backup.
I think the reason Mallett is making less money is because of his "I wanted to come back at any cost" frame of mind. I think he did a really bad job of negotiating and let the Texans know they could have him for cheap. So he's got the smaller contract just because the Texans knew they could get away with it.
I'm expecting Mallett to take control of the team pretty quickly and our offense to be light-years better than it was last year (as long as we can figure out the OL situation.)
But I could be seriously wrong about all of that. And that's scary. But scary is why we're fans.
I think Hoyer is making that money because that's what it took to get him here (or at least that's what he was able to convince the Texans that he required) and OB didn't want to go into the season with questions at QB. With Mallett and Hoyer he knows he has two guys who can run this system. I'm convinced that if Mallett wins the competition then Hoyer is traded next year about this time. If Hoyer wins then Mallett may have a chance of sticking around since he's cheaper but he just might find himself getting the "Case Keenum/Ryan Fitzpatrick 7th round special treatment" right out of town too.
What nobody is really focusing on is "What happens if Savage wins the job?"
I don't think it's impossible. Sure it's not likely but I wonder what Savage would have to do to win it. If it did happen then things would be getting really interesting around here.
I'm just going by what I saw of Mallett last preseason plus what I saw of him playing for us: I like him. I think he could be very good for us and I think he could be a quality starter.
The fact that Hoyer came in and is making more money than Mallett is problematic. I don't think it means that OB prefers Hoyer or that Hoyer is going to get the better opportunity to start. But I could be wrong. Hoyer is not a good QB but he's an OK backup.
I think the reason Mallett is making less money is because of his "I wanted to come back at any cost" frame of mind. I think he did a really bad job of negotiating and let the Texans know they could have him for cheap. So he's got the smaller contract just because the Texans knew they could get away with it.
I'm expecting Mallett to take control of the team pretty quickly and our offense to be light-years better than it was last year (as long as we can figure out the OL situation.)
But I could be seriously wrong about all of that. And that's scary. But scary is why we're fans.
Mallett is either crazy dumb or is so confident in his abilities to get the job done that he's willing to gamble on one year. If he ends up being the starter that we are all hoping for, I have little doubt that the Texans will lock him up in a long term contract. We should have a much better idea of which one he is by this time next year.
I agree, and I've stated that case many times in the forum. I do not usually stick my neck out with such wild optimism, but something about Mallett, his history with NE/Brady/O'Brien/scheme, and how he looked vs. the Browns makes me feel good about his potential. It's a little nerve-wracking, but such is the life of a football fan.
That said, when I step waaaaay back into cosmic objectivity and take off the fan glasses, it is what it is: a roster with a bunch of back up QBs on it until they prove otherwise.
Number19
Hall of Fame
I don't understand this comment.
Keenum was an undrafted FA in 2012 and did spend his first season on the PS. But he was on the 53 man roster for all of 2013 with the Texans. In 2014, he was also on the Ram's 53 man roster through week 8, on their PS weeks 9-14 and was then signed to the Texans' 53 man roster for weeks 15 and 16.
So by my calculations, he's spent 22 games on a PS, all but 6 his rookie year, and 26 games on a 53 man roster since then, over the course of his first three seasons.
This makes him a "perpetual practice squad player"? I guess we'll find out this year with St Louis.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Against common opponents last season (Oak, Buf, Ind, Pit, Ten, Jac);
Hoyer - 53% completions, 221 YPG, 7.3 Y/A, 6 TD, 6 INT, 74.3 QBR.
Fitz - 66% completions, 228 YPG, 8.1 Y/A, 13 TD, 3 INT, 106.4 QBR.
And OB replaced Fitz with Mallett.
Three seasons and 22 games on the practices squads of two different teams. It's not that complicated to comprehend.
I like Case and wish him the best, but it's not disrespectful to honestly discuss his NFL career.
Good thing Fitz was playing for the Texans' offense and not the Browns'.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Sorry, but those games Hoyer had against Pittsburgh (twice) Oakland and Tennessee were some of his BEST games of the season. And he still put up crap numbers like that.
I don't care what offense he's in, Hoyer couldn't hit the water if he fell out of a boat, and it's going to be a long disappointing season if OB goes with Hoyer, or Mallett can't beat out Hoyer.
I get what you're saying, but (honest question) how many guys go back to the practice squad after getting 8 starts? How many QBs?
My vote:
I think OB may be leaning towards Hoyer, but he has no idea how screwed up he got in the last three years, so he's going to have an "honest" competition. If Hoyer hadn't forgotten too much, & hadn't picked up any bad habits, he'll be our starting QB. Otherwise, we Mallett gets his shot... again.
QuiGonGinNTonic
Waterboy
people should start talking about what the lottery numbers are going to be. they seem to know the future 
Well, O'Brien evaluates the two as competitive for the starting job. I'm guessing you don't think much of Mallett either, or is it O'Brien's skill at judging quarterbacks in question here?
I pose this question because I see lots of posters who claim Mallett is good because he has O'Brien's endorsement, but then claim Hoyer is bad even though he has the same endorsement - maybe even more if money is an indicator.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Wasn't there a rule change that made that even possible?
I have no problem with this, but if OB declares Hoyer a starter right before TC, I may lose it.
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I think it's because he didn't want to sign a longterm deal. If OB sees what you see & what I hope (because I want this QB search to be over), then it's in our best interest to lock him up right now for as little as possible. Two years of playing like we think he can, he's going to cost a boatload in the future.
Hopefully the next two years is our "cheap contract/great contract" years.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
people should start talking about what the lottery numbers are going to be. they seem to know the future
I'm done with most of my chores and I predict I''l have a beer or two .
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Hoyer was 9-3 as a starter after his 2nd game last season , then injuries and suspensions killed them .
And I don't know about you, but I thought the Fitzpatrick led offense was excruciatingly painful to watch.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
What the hell kind of thing is after the 2nd game? Case was 2-0 last year. Anyway...
Hoyer
7-6 with 9th D
Case
0-8 with 24th D
2-0 with 7th D
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
Agreed. I think Gordon's actions at the end of the year screwed them
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
You're right. It was. And he still put up MUCH better numbers than Hoyer against the same teams.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I've watched several of Hoyer's games and thought he was ok . He's not the next Montana , he's a bit above average .
Fitz, Hoyer, and Keenum is splitting some pretty coarse hairs for what should turn out to be the backup role.
Bottom line is OB felt like Hoyer has more of the tools he needs from a qb. And he felt like a 1.875M+ cap hit over Fitz for this year would be worth it as an insurance against something going wrong with Mallett. Doesn't sound all that out of bounds.
Bottom line is OB felt like Hoyer has more of the tools he needs from a qb. And he felt like a 1.875M+ cap hit over Fitz for this year would be worth it as an insurance against something going wrong with Mallett. Doesn't sound all that out of bounds.
OK. I'll put you firmly in the camp of those who don't trust O'Brien's ability to judge quarterbacks.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
There's no conflict in having competition IN camp and naming a starter AFTER Camp (or near the end after the competition is over)
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
How many teams need a roster spot for a mid season replacement?
No, I'm talking in OTA's. Problem I had last year is that OB made up his mind before Training Camp started. To me it doesn't seem like it was a competition.
Number19
Hall of Fame
You have to understand the circumstances.
Keenum, after spending all of 2013 on the Texans active roster, still had PS eligibility. OB was not going to carry 4 QB's on the roster, so after the signing of Mallett in 2014, Case was let go rather than Savage. I don't disagree with this decision.
The Rams immediately picked him up based on their evaluation of his tape. Keenum had no knowledge of the Ram's offense, yet was carried on their 53 man roster as their 4th QB, presumably based on his potential. Mid-season the Rams had injuries which required a roster spot to be opened up. A forth string QB was the logical choice. As soon as he cleared waivers, the Rams sign Keenum to their PS, indicating an interest in keeping the young QB under contract.
Now, jump forward to 2015 and the Texans sign Mallett, and they sign Keenum. They have Fitz and Savage under contract. And there's rumors the Texans are interested in Hoyer.
The Rams contact the Texans to see if Keenum is available. The Texans make the trade and Case will now have the opportunity to go through the Rams OTA's and training camp. With an unstable QB situation in St Louis, Case will have an excellent opportunity to make their roster.
Considering that he was an undrafted FA QB, Case's professional career has been encouraging. After all, he's only entering his forth season. How many undrafted FA QB's have done better?
xtruroyaltyx
Hall of Fame
Well it's a fairly new rule that allowed him to go back to practice squad.
That said sometimes "different" is just different.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
And I'll put you in the camp of thinking you can Vulcan mind meld OBs brain thinking it gives you a clue as to what he's thinking.
Trusting his ability to judge QBs? Sure, I'll weigh what he says a little more than anyone on this board, including myself, but that doesn't mean it's right. He signed Ryan Fitzpatrick for crying out loud. Coaches, scouts, they do get it wrong, a lot. That's why the draft is such a crapshoot.
And sure, Fitzy may have had his best season ever as a pro under OB, but he was still painful to watch on Sundays (you admitted so yourself) and this team missed the playoffs because of it. And this is a guy who played significantly better against the same competition Hoyer played against.
Ryan Mallett has been the backup to Tom Brady for 3 years. I don't think there's any chance in hell that Mallett re-signs with Houston to be the backup to Brian freaking Hoyer.
No mind meld. Just trying to read the tea leaves like everyone else. I'm just looking for a coherent theory; not one where he is a great judge of QBs on one hand and a bad one on the other.
TexanBacker93
Veteran
Fitz might have played much better than Hoyer last season, but he was playing with NFL talent and for a real organization. Fitz did have his best season ever in OB's offense. There's no reason to think Hoyer won't as well, if he's the starter. I personally think it's Mallett's job to lose.
I think so too. And I think he'll do better than his showing in Cleveland because he's back in the system he "grew up in" back in NE.
We'll all find out together.
That said, when I step waaaaay back into cosmic objectivity and take off the fan glasses, it is what it is: a roster with a bunch of back up QBs on it until they prove otherwise.
This, my friend, is our true reality. Anything else, until shown otherwise, is fan optimism/pessimism.
We are all wondering:
Is Mallett The One?
Do you really think that OB signed Fitz to become the Texans franchise QB, or do you think he might've signed Fitz as a 1-2 yr. stop-gap that could grasp his offense better than the trio he inherited?
The Texans have signed the 2 best QB's available, that are very familiar to OB and his system, to very reasonable "prove it" contracts.
I don't see what all the complaining is about. I feel a lot better about the QB situation this year than I did last year. I also think that OB will start whichever QB performs the best, regardless of contract. Even if that's Savage. I doubt OB thinks he has "his" franchise QB on the roster right now, but he's going to give these guys a chance to change his mind.
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Now THAT is an interesting point.
I think the money diff is probably because Hoyer has more starting experience (or Mallett has a worse agent than AJ) than Big Tex.
The money difference is because Hoyer is in the "get it while you can" phase of his career & Mallett is at the tail end of the "build value" portion of his career. Hoyer signed a three year contract because he knows, with relative certainty, what his value will be three years from now & the Texans probably over shot it. If Mallett plays his cards right, there's no telling what his value will be three seasons from now & he's not going to settle for some low ball offer.
paycheck71
Hall of Fame
Hoyer signed a 2 year deal even though it was first reported that a 3 year deal was agreed to.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
With zero dead money if the Texans cut him after a year (per Spotrac).
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
Starts = $
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
It's absolutely market value.
I don't think it signals Hoyer as the starter. Mallett 'won' the job last year and will have to play his way out of it. And yet this begs the question why spend that on a backup. Really, really hope we are patient and don't play QB carrossel.
Jimmy Johnson brought his woobie to town and then wisely left him on the bench.
X-Files? That's a kickass nickname for Su'a-Filo. Is that already in use, or did Norg just coin that?
I didn't know you spoke Norg...