I, for one, didn't want Hakeem to play anywhere else either. I'm a fan. I'm selfish (or I was). I want homegrown boys to retire at hoome.
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
How much is Andre worth to you?
- Thread starter thunderkyss
- Start date
I, for one, didn't want Hakeem to play anywhere else either. I'm a fan. I'm selfish (or I was). I want homegrown boys to retire at hoome.
You know this how?
Bottom line is there will be younger better WR's in FA that can be signed and will be a better fit in BOB's offense.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
If AJ was at Randy Moss end of his career #s i could understand this, but he is not. HE did have a down year last season no one is denying that BUT like he showed the last 2 games of the season the man still has a lot left in the tank.
Oh yeah cause we all know the Texans have always been big players in FA
And this is a huge part of the problem. It's much cheaper to draft a WR than it is to sign one in FA. Meanwhile, Houston's own LaFell/Amendola are playing in the SB today. (Pats FA signing)
We've got different definitions of the word a lot, Especially for 14 mil.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Drafting a WR should be a priority this season anyways. BUT drafting a guy does not mean he will be good, nor does it mean he will put up AJ like #s.
And who cares if some of our old players are playing on SB teams, you could be 3rd string never see the field and get a SB ring.
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
PHILLYTEXANFAN
Saddle Up Partner
Damn i can't believe we let that guy go..............
Hahahahaha
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Lol. So loyalty to where some player grew up is supposed to count for something?
And what a seller example. Amendola is a bust FA signing who in two years with the Pats hasn't totalled what AJ did last season.
not the point
Scooter
Funky
I have a problem with Earl and Bum in a Saints uniform, it's a contributing factor towards the overwhelming hate of Bud Adams. Biggio and Bagwell have been retired 5+ years and under a different owner (just after a World Series), they couldn't have less to do with the current workings.
Yes, seeing Biggio in a HOF cap matters. I take pride in my team and the players who create it. I show up on Sundays and look at the American flag, the Texas flag, and 2 Division banners. I want all types of team banners flying, but I want "80 Johnson" plastered on the wall as well, and it would mean a great deal if he spent his career here. We're new, we don't have history. Andre Johnson is the first as a Texan to be that guy, OUR GUY.
You want change ... and change ... and change ... and for good measure, change. I hear the Browns are hiring. Forgive me if I want to establish something and take pride in our own.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
How is that not the point, neither player did much of anything to help their teams get to the SB.
As stated earlier David Carr has a SB ring and what did he do to help the Giants win that year ? Nothing besides stand on the sideline fixing his hair wearing one glove.
Scooter
Funky
You assume he's gone how?
Bottom line is you're losing a player who's worst full season was 930+ yards on assumptions of cheaper and better players that 31 other teams are competing for.
What gives you the idea that the Texans are in cap hell?
TheMatrix31
Hall of Fame
I don't give a **** about those other players. I'm a Houston Texans fan. I don't want him playing anywhere else.
How does Aj not being on this team make us better? How does it make us more likely to win a championship?
Jerry Rice could have stayed with the 49ers, he proved there were several years left in him. The 49ers were knee deep in bad decisions at that time & letting Rice go was one of them. Damn near 10 years since they'd seen the play offs after Rice left.
Emmit was done. He proved in Arizona what Jerrah was trying to tell him.
Aj is in the Jerry Rice group. The man can still play at a high level.
We can fix the cap without losing Andre. Cutting him in & of itself does not fix the cap.
AJ does not still play at a consistently high level. Certaily not at a level his salary would suggest. I'm all for the Texans keeping him, bu not at anything lose to his current salary.
There are several FA's that I'd rather see the Texans and this draft is pretty deep at WR.
Scooter
Funky
AJ's a year away from 100+ receptions and 1400+ yards. Ability isn't a question - I would hope none are so foolish to doubt that. Those results aren't available in free agency at any price or the draft with the first overall pick. Andre didn't like our direction, obviously. Being older and with naturally hard hands, he's not someone who can take a moment off. He can't coast through games, because he's not a natural ... what he is is hard work and effort as a physical specimen. AJ's all or nothing. Case came in and Andre got excited again - to 16 receptions, 199 yards and 1 touchdown across the biggest two games of the season.
Hopkins has one obstacle to being a pro bowler or even and all-pro. That will be decided by whether Andre wants to be a Texan next year. He didn't last year and phoned it in. After 9 wins and more familiarity, we'll find out early in the off-season if AJ's committed or not ... if he is, a healthy Andre will be a top 5 NFL receiver in spite of what Hopkins does.
edit: posts should not be made on alcohol sun .... err superbowl sunday.
Last edited:
We'll just have to agree to disagree.
Well, I agree with the salary part of it. They need to get that right & if they do, there isn't another receiver I'd rather have. Many I'd like to have in addition to, but not in lieu of.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
I wouldn't assume that he can't play at a high level after one down season. Lets see what a real QB and him can do together and then go from there. He proved the last game of the season (IF TARGETED WITH QUALITY THROWN BALLS) he can still be a 1300-1400 yard a season guy.
^^^^
This
I don't get people who put what's best for the player above what's best for the team. Andre aint worth 14 mil next season.
BTW, LaFell and Amendola looked pretty good yesterday.
I don't get why you have such a hard time getting that people have differing opinions. And they may not think that keeping AJ means putting one player above the team.
Their opinion is just that... not necessarily better or worse than yours, just an opinion as yours is.
None of it matters since the Texans aren't going to take our advice regardless of what it is or how passionate we are about it
I'm basing my opinion off of age, injury history and degraded ability based on said injury history. I'm specifically worried about AJ's hammies and ankles. Cast your mind back to some quotes from CnD about those injuries.
It's the cumulative effect of the injuries that really worry me. I also didn't like what I saw from AJ in single coverage last year. He just didn't seem to be able to get consistently good separation in man coverage or settle down in the holes in zone coverage. If any of that resulted from his heart not being in it, then shame on him.
I understand people having different opinions. I just didn't think that AJ is more important than the team, especially at 14 per yr. Now I understand why the fanbase is what it is and they don't deserve a championship quality on the field product.
You're right none of our opinions matter if they did Rick Smith wouldn't have a job. Isn't a MB a place to exchange opinions? If not maybe I'm on the wrong MB.
Of course it is, you just seem to denigrate those with differing opinions from yours.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I don't think there is denigrating, I think he just is perplexed by that mindset. Seems like typical disagreement, no denigration.
IT's kinda hard for me to keep everyone in order, who's arguing what & things like that.
If you don't mind, could you participate in the poll above so I'd have a better idea of your stance, before I argue your opinion. Keep in mind, though I didn't write it in the choices, if we cut or trade Andre, or if he elects to retire, we save $8M unless he's designated a June 1st cut.
Really? That surprises me.
I'm in the 6 mil and the Texans can sign a vet WR club. Preferably Cobb.
Draft David Cobb, Sign Randall Cobb with the AJ savings and draft an OT and I'm very happy with this offseason.
Why does this surprise you.
I have stong opinions just you do. Take your opinin of the Texans QB situation for example. Even though we disagree I certainly don't mean to denigrate you or your opinions.
I look at it as carrying on a conversation of 2 differing opinions. Please point out where I've denigrated any of yours or others opinions.
Here's one, unless I just missed the complimentary nature of the post.
I thought the statement was especially humorous coming from a message board draftnik.
So you're saying that you have enough knowledge on Savage/Mallett after 1 game of Mallett and 2 qtrs. of Savage? I didn't mean to denigrate your opinion but truthfully nobody knows how they will turn out at this point and to say that you know they will fail is being disingenuous at best. I certainly didn't mean too/feel I didn't denigrate your opinion with that statement and I am truly sorry if you took it that way.
That was a Bill Walsh philosophy. I did not realize that until a recent "A Football Life" documentary on Walsh. His attitude was that he only wanted a player's best years. Loyalty was never an option to him when trying to maintain a consistently winning franchise. It reminds me very much of Belichick with the obvious exception of Brady (who happens to still play at a high level, but then again, Belichick doesn't have a Steve Young ready to take over).
I tend to be like you. Never liked Earl in a Saint uni. I understand that it's a business, so I'm still a fan in spite of not liking certain aspects of things.
I personally would like to see A.J. retire as a Texan, but understand if they have to part ways due to financial constraints. I think he'll stay a Texan because of McNair's "legacy players" comments, but time will tell.
Bill Walsh is on the Mount Rushmore of coaches.
If this philosophy is good enough for him it should be good enough for Texans fans if they really want a winner.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
This is what I was trying to get at in another thread that got jumped into it by one of my trolls. For example:
I have no problem at all with your saying AJ is no longer worth his cap hit (wish you would distinguish salary but ...) or that you would attempt to sign Cobb for even $9 mil. That's a totally defensible/arguable position. It's that you say anyone who disagrees falls into a comment like the above or is putting player above team. Some folks just differ with you and think the team is still better served with AJ as is, or extended, etc. Look back at the 1st quote above. We all (and McNair) want to win. Just different assessments of how to get there.
When you're making a poll, you can make it public or private.
You "bet" that if the Texans had won the Indy game that my opinion of Savage would have changed:
My response was that if Savage played with the same skill level in a (hypothetical) win as he did in the (reality) loss, my opinion of his play in that game wouldn't have changed:
And because of that statement you extrapolate that I am stating the fact that Mallet and Savage will both bust. Hardly. As I've said, Mallett is promising but there is too little data to proclaim him the franchise quarterback. I think the Texans should be looking at other avenues to acquire a franchise level quarterback in case Mallett does not pan out.
I think Savage is unlikely to be a franchise quarterback because he got passed up by professional evaluators several times the last draft, and historically late round quarterbacks like that usually don't succeed. That is an opinion based on information - just not the "film study" and "grading" some like to hang their hats on.
=====================
I also can't help but point out that there seems to plenty of "tape" to crown Mallett and Savage as brilliant acquisitions, although you were quick to twist things around and then point out I didn't know what I was talking about since I didn't share that opinion.
Didn't mean to twist things around. I still stick by my statement that there isn't enough evidence to say that Mallett or for that matter Savage cant be a franchise QB. In fact I like Mallett better than any QB in this class besides Winston and we know there's no way Winston will ever be a Texan.
Lets just say I think the best way to build a consistent SB contender is the Walsh/Belicheck way. Rather than the Texan way.
You do know the difference between "can't" and "unlikely", right? I say the latter, not the former. There are no guarantees, but a team has to play the odds. In my opinion the Texans are a franchise quarterback away from being true contenders. I'd like to see them make every effort to get one.
I am glad you have the right to make that judgement, given the limited amount of film available. Grant the same consideration to others and everything should be copacetic.
We will have to disagree about being a QB away from being a true title contender. Very far away from the Seahawks/Pats game yesterday. IMHO
I've studied quite a bit of Mallett while at Arkansas and I think he can be a more talented, less injured Schaub. You're right you are entitled to your opinion. But the only opinion that truly matters is /McNairs/Smith/Gaine/BOB's opinion.
All of this is just healthy MB talk. IMHO
Man, there is a solid case to be made for this strategy. Many winning NFL coaches have held this same philosophy about players. As Lombardi said, "winning isn't everything, it's the only thing". And in that perspective, tough choices have to be made for the team in any given season, whereas the franchise could have different goals as it relates to fans and such.
With A.J. and the Texans, as a fan, it feels like a battle between the head and the heart.
I agreed and it should be a really easy decision. However I do believe that the front office types including the McNair's have other goals rather than consistently putting the best product on the field as possible. AJ is a symptom of the dysfunction between the front office and the on the field product.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I'm curious what examples there are for carrying out this under Walsh? Rice and Montana both departed under Siefert as did Craig, Lott, Carter, Wright and Haley.
steelb, feel free to jump in with an answer on that.
AJ looked pretty darn productive with ONE of our QB's. I guess you would call him 'unreal'
Which is why I asked him to participate in said public poll.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
He did within a few days of it being started.
By public I mean it will display everyone who has voted for each not just the total.