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How much is Andre worth to you?
- Thread starter thunderkyss
- Start date
badboy
Hall of Fame
Seemed like a good article for the "was" and not the "is". Looking at the game from a coach aspect not interested in the dollars, I think AJ showing up at all OTAs and preseason will do okay with Mallett. I am more concerned about what we do for WRs 3 and 4.
Troy Chapman
Rookie
zero
Troy Chapman
Rookie
Yea that seemed more like a bio. Then the last paragraph gets into 2014 and if he will take a paycut.
badboy
Hall of Fame
while I agree, it is fun to consider what Gary could offer for a player that could push him into Super Bowl.
why? And get what? And the owner that said he wanted him to retire here has no say? Is there a no trade clause in his contract?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Why worry about him going AFC since he's done?
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
By far probably the dumbest arguments in this thread. We get it. THe players are your heroes and winning isn't important to you.
But to turn around and act like it is a Cleveland Browns type of move is beyond stupid. You may want some guy to be around for your entire life because he makes you feel good in your precious heart, but to suggest that improving a roster and a cap situation in a sport where that happens every season is only something that a Browns type of team would do is beyond ridiculous. Go watch Little League or something. This is a professional sport where guys are paid Millions and all types of jobs are on the line to perform.
I have yet to see any realistic trade scenario posed by any of the "trade AJ" camp; i.e., who is the trading partner? What do we get for him? And now that he's, theoretically gone, we need to fill that void and get a #1/2 WR of his experience, so what WR are ya gonna sign, that's AJ caliber, that isn't going to gobble up the cash that we'd - supposedly - save?
For YEARS folks have been b!tchin' that we need to get a legit #2 to take the double teams away from AJ. Now that we've got one, you guys want to trade AJ and leave Hopkins in that same - no-help/always double teamed - situation.
I swear, it boggles the mind.
What we need is a QB that can get either of them the ball.
For YEARS folks have been b!tchin' that we need to get a legit #2 to take the double teams away from AJ. Now that we've got one, you guys want to trade AJ and leave Hopkins in that same - no-help/always double teamed - situation.
I swear, it boggles the mind.
What we need is a QB that can get either of them the ball.
well said.
We wouldn't get value for him considering what we have to give up to replace him. I don't understand what the big deal is about paying him what he's due. He agreed to a contract friendly to us and signed numerous adjustments to it over his career. He wants to take this team to the Super Bowl.
He may agree to a restructure again, but if not, pay the man and let's continue to build this team. We're not in cap hell anymore. Some people just think we should have $30 million every year.
Andre is the exception to your rule. He is to the Texans what Ray Lewis was to the Ravens. There are intangibles pertaining to leadership qualities and inspiration to his teammates that should not be underestimated. And he still produces. What needs to happen is for his salary to be team friendly and accordance to his current level of potential production on the field.
Besides, you act as if us fans have any impact on influencing the decision, which could not be further from the truth. We know how this owner feels about Andre, so fans have a choice to accept it or bitch about it. Scooter appears to have chosen the former while you tend to take the latter route.
silvrhand
All Pro
See Demeco Ryans, and as much as I hated to lose him, we still managed to survive.
I'm in the get a top tier FA WR then cut AJ and get Hopkins help that way.
I just didn't like how AJ looked last season. $16M is a ton of money to pay for a #2 WR.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I must have missed DeMeco being on par with Ray Lewis or AJ - and I'm a huge DeMeco fan who hated seeing him go. Notice how DeMeco brought leadership to the Eagles.
It's $10 mil. The rest is accounting - money already spent and you ain't getting rid of it. Gotta examine contracts as a whole and the circumstances for cap hits. When AJ punched out 1600 yds in 2012 he was $7.5 mil on the cap so dramatically underpaid if you look at that year's cap hit in isolation. You got that "discount" by pushing accounting to now.
For a little perspective here: AJ (2010) is on a contract that averages $9.7. CJ (2012) and Fitz (2011) are both on contracts that average over $16.
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And just how much do you expect to pay for a "top tier" WR?
Here is SporTrac's list of the top F/A WRs. The dollar amt is their 2014 cap hit.
The older guys aren't an upgrade over AJ and the younger guys will most likely be retained by their current teams. So, who again, is this top tier guy that we'll get at a bargain?
Mr. McNair obviously disagrees with your assessment. He never referred to DeMeco as "legacy player" for the Texans.
I hated seeing Ryans let go, as well, but he clearly did not have the same value to this team as A.J. has had all these years. You can implement different offensive schemes and A.J. fits all of them. Just look at how may OC's he's had in his career and he has thrived in spite of changes.
DeMeco, on the other hand, was perceived as primarily a 4-3 LB, even though most of us thought he could play any scheme.
I get what you're saying, but my comments are generally 'big picture' and includes what we know about the owner and his publicly stated thoughts.
And the younger guys that could come in and have a chance to be at least a decent #2 are coming off rookie contracts and will want to be paid. Not gonna save a lot of money going that route
Trolling now gary??
gary
Hall of Fame
Just a thought. Why it has to be trolling?
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
The same reason we got Mallett in a trade instead of waiting for him to go on waivers. Exclusive rights, at least for a short while. And there is no certainty that AJ would be cut, even if he was uncooperative and tried to force our hand.
And don't forget that almost half the Cap number is dead money and would not be freed up by releasing AJ, not to mention the cost of his replacement. It's not as clear cut as you might think.
Troy Chapman
Rookie
Reports today that Arizona and Fitzgerald are close to a contract extension. Keep a close eye on this one, might provide the blueprint for what could be done with Andre Johnson.
Troy Chapman
Rookie
Well that just killed Houston. They negotiated a two year deal with $22m in GTD money. They will add one more year to his deal but the 2017, 2018, 2019 years will void after 2016. They will eat almost $9m in the void year.
If they didn't touch Andre's deal, he would get $23.5m (but not GTD) through 2016.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
Edit - nevermind
Troy Chapman
Rookie
The large difference in total earnings is from Andre not using a real agent for contract negotiations...no fault of Houston.
However the Fitzgerald restructure from last week will likely keep Andre from redoing his deal for Houston....hopefully I am wrong.
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HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
Yeah, but the fact he'll have a 16+ cap hit is, no?
Troy Chapman
Rookie
Yes that part is, 3 restructures. The Tweet you quoted was on the career earnings, sorry didn't catch the cap part of the post.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Well yes in one respect you are and it could make a huge difference. The Cards didn't do an extension, they effectively shortened his contract. He was signed through 2018. Now he is signed through 2016. It's still technically 2018 but it voids after 2016 and they are going to carry $9.7 mil in dead money after that.
AJ is in the opposite position. He's signed through 2016. He could be extended through 2018 to much more modest cap numbers throughout with the key being guaranteed money.
Lots of ways to do similar things as this but for example...AJ if he plays out his contract is due $23.5 mil in new money (and a mountain of MB, radio and personal angst about his cap hits/getting cut). Make that into $24 mil fully guaranteed in salaries (throw in some performance bonus potential) such as:
2015 salary $4 mil, current cap hit $16.1 mil, new cap hit $8.6 mil, cap savings $7.5 mil
2016 salary $6 mil, current cap hit $14.7 mil, new cap hit $8.7, cap savings $6 mil
2017 salary $7 mil, cap hit $7 mil
2018 salary $7 mil, cap hit $7 mil
Cap hits reasonable, AJ's uncertainty over the future gone, AJ retires a Texan, bonuses protect AJ for performance beyond expectations based on age. And no dead money if he retires at any point after 2016.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
That looks like a very good plan! Have you called RS yet and told him about it?
One of y'all with media contacts call pancakes and get him to present it as his idea.
Troy Chapman
Rookie
Sorry extension was a typo, essentially same length as Andre's current deal. I don't anticipate anything to happen.
That type of extension is all well and nice, but I am not convinced McNair is ready to cut a check for $24m to put in escrow; and be locked in for 4 years. Instead of having the flexibility to make a change next offseason with little consequence.
That looks like a very good plan! Have you called RS yet and told him about it?
Not that he would understand,
Looks like they are going to ride out AJ's contract for the last 2 yrs as is. Not the way I would do it, but if McNair is one thing it's loyal to a fault. Fans need to hope AJ finds the fountain of youth.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I think McNair is a whole lot more interested in finding a way to keep AJ until he retires than he is getting rid of him next off-season, especially if it can be done in a way that makes his cap v. play a minimized issue.
Other than escrow, an almost inconsequential issue, what's the problem?
Troy Chapman
Rookie
Being locked down for $24m over 4 years vs. being able to release after the 2015 season. That would be the problem for me. I was fine with giving Johnson maybe $10-$12m guaranteed, but no way I am going to commit $24m guaranteed.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
And why would AJ be interested in that?
Deals get done when both parties benefit. AJ gets $11.5 mil for being on the team this year. He'd laugh at that proposal, rightfully.
It's time for Rick to pay the piper (AJ) for all of the kicking the can into the future.
Yep, I think if you could extend him for 2 years/$24M fully guaranteed, both sides would be happy campers
Troy Chapman
Rookie
I think he would have been interested three weeks ago, but after the crazy Fitzgerald extension I would not expect him to take it either. Obviously a difference of opinion, I am against offering a 2 year $24million fully guaranteed extension to Johnson.
I am fine with an extension, just not at the $24m fully guaranteed amount.
It appears to me that the idea Icak put forth offers much more flexibility than the current contract/cap hit and it only adds $500K over what AJ will be getting anyway. Add to that the fact that AJ retires as a Texan, it looks like a win-win situation to me.
It appears to me that the idea Icak put forth offers much more flexibility than the current contract/cap hit and it only adds $500K over what AJ will be getting anyway. Add to that the fact that AJ retires as a Texan, it looks like a win-win situation to me.
If you decide that putting AJ retiring with the Texans being the only team he plays for. Kicking the can even further down the road is putting AJ ahead of the team even more.
I propose that the Texans pay AJ for the next 2 yrs (If they must) take their medicine and add young talent in the meantime. Hopefully making themselves playoff contenders and using AJ's cap room when he retires on impact FA's that can put them over the top. That would be my plan since I cant see the Texans winning the SB in the next 2 yrs.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I'm just trying to figure out how/why you think AJ would ever have contemplated a deal with no more guaranteed than he will get paid this year anyway? It makes no sense regardless of the Fitz deal.
Maybe you should pay attention to the details and not just go into brain freeze at the word extension. There's zero can kicking in what I proposed.
Troy Chapman
Rookie
There was nothing on the market that would indicate he wouldn't take such a deal. He has zero guaranteed money at the moment, prospect of another $10 million might have been interesting for Johnson's camp.