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Manziel
- Thread starter Wolf
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TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Happy feet much? Well blocked play. Could have just stood in there and made the throw it seems to me.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
And same play from a different angle where he has a wide open crossing pattern for a TD but got happy feet. Also, hugely busted coverage with two Bama defenders covering nothing out wide to the left.
Same deal here, happy feet.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Trap_Star
SiteContributor
lol his die hards argue that he DOES NOT throw it up for grabs, he's just that clutch.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
I don't think he does it quite as often as is portrayed, but he does it often enough to be atleast a little bit concerning.
Exactly. This is something I believe good coaching will fix. Didn't we just hire a QB guru?
I keep seeing this comparison and I just can't buy into it. He isn't near the runner that Dick was. He's a far superior passer. Vic did what he did because of his speed. Manziel does what he does cause of this elusiveness. Manziel reminds me of a young Randall Cunningham.
Stemp
Brew Master
Also mostly showing highlights from his freshman year. Anyone who pid attention would realize he improved immensely this year. I know of only one jump ball he threw and that was in the Alabama game
bah007
Hall of Fame
It's more style of play. Manziel is a far better passer. But he still uses his legs as his primary weapon instead of his arm. Vick was the same way. Explosive athlete with a great arm, but he couldn't play from the pocket. He had to moving at all times.
Manziel could be shaped into a Cunningham type player, but that isn't what he is at this point. He's shown that he is capable of making plays from the pocket, but he is uncomfortable sitting there. He wants to be on the move.
BullNation4Life
All Pro
Manziel reminds me of only one player...
Wore #4 in GB....
Almost identical to the T. Similar height, weight coming into the draft, similar styles, gun slinger mentality. Not sure how many saw Favre in college, I remember him playing against TAMU, used his legs as well. Not to the extend Manziel does, but could scramble around and sling a jump ball as well....
If Manziel has a game anywhere near what ol' #4 had, I take him in a heart beat. Only takes a creative mind and someone with some scrote to take the chance GB did with #4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbyA7lActIQ
Draft analysis on Favre: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB2M0xxX9Vw
Wore #4 in GB....
Almost identical to the T. Similar height, weight coming into the draft, similar styles, gun slinger mentality. Not sure how many saw Favre in college, I remember him playing against TAMU, used his legs as well. Not to the extend Manziel does, but could scramble around and sling a jump ball as well....
If Manziel has a game anywhere near what ol' #4 had, I take him in a heart beat. Only takes a creative mind and someone with some scrote to take the chance GB did with #4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbyA7lActIQ
Draft analysis on Favre: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MB2M0xxX9Vw
bah007
Hall of Fame
I'm not saying it can't happen. I'm just saying he isn't that yet. A Cunningham type player would be best case scenario.
And just for argument's sake, in 16 years Cunningham only played 16 games three times.
BullNation4Life
All Pro
It's not by much, especially coming out of college. Brett Favre was known to have an average arm strength before getting to GB. Holmgren helped fixed that by adjusting his throwing mechanics...That and Favre traded his 12 oz workout for a weight workout and built up his arm strength...
One of the reasons Atlanta traded him...
silvrhand
All Pro
10000% agree..
BullNation4Life
All Pro
then you would be 10000% wrong...
WolverineFan
Hall of Fame
Like I said before, I have major reservations about drafting a player if the plan is to "fix" his best quality once we draft him. If that's the plan then what does he bring to the table outside of that ability that makes him a better prospect than Bridgewater or Bortles?
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
I'm not talking about the Cunningham played 16 years and NFL. I'm talking about a young Randall Cunningham. Say his first 2 or three years. And until Manziel shows he has injury problems, I'm not too worried about that. The rules now are in favor of the QB and I believe he can be broke of his bad habits. I'm more concerned with Bridgewaters frail body not being able to take punishment than Manziels style of play.
BullNation4Life
All Pro
I think what I put in bold would be a better choice of words...
I disagree that is his best quality. His accuracy/ball placement is by far his best quality. He has made far more great throws than he has made great plays with his legs. Both those qualities are on pare with Bridgewater. To me he is only slightly below Bridgewater as a prospect only because of the offense he played in. Bridgewater is the more pro ready prospect at this point. However if Bridgewater is as frail as he looks in the weigh ins I would take Manziel without hesitation.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Rep! Excellent article. After reading it, I am even more impressed by Johnny Football.
I do not believe everyone that dislikes Johnny Football is a "hater". In fact, there have been plenty of people in this thread that have made great arguments against drafting Manziel. It's the uniformed posters (especially of the UT, VY lovin' variety) that simply hate Manziel because their coach was too stupid to make him an offer to play QB.
Anyway, here are some of the best points, IMO, from the article:
And although it has nothing to do with Manziel, I found this little nugget about Bridgewater incredible. He really does have the makings of a potentially special player:
bah007
Hall of Fame
My bad. I misunderstood your point. But I do believe that Randall Cunningham would be Manziel's peak potential. And that is not a bad thing, look up his stats when he was healthy.
Bridgewater is not any more frail than Manziel. They are both skinny guys. You can argue that Bridgewater is skinnier but the point is moot. Both need to get thicker.
And style of play is important. Manziel's style opens him up to being affected by more injuries than Teddy. A torn ACL or even an ankle sprain doesn't change who Teddy is. It possibly changes Manziel a great deal. I'm not saying he is more likely to suffer one. I'm saying that the effects of injury will affect him more. These are legitimate concerns. Not necessarily deal breakers, but legitimate.
I agree with the first part. The second not so much. To say that it would change who he is is selling his passing ability short IMO. I guess I have a higher opinion of his football IQ and his QB passing skills than other people.
bah007
Hall of Fame
I agree with the first part. The second not so much. To say that it would change who he is is selling his passing ability short IMO. I guess I have a higher opinion of his football IQ and his QB passing skills than other people.
I think the last sentence is true. But we all have different thoughts about every prospect.
I don't hold him in poor regard concerning his passing abilities, but his legs make him who he is. I don't think that's even debatable. I'm not saying he can't alter his game and play solely from the pocket. But without his running ability he is a totally different player. The more you have to change, the harder it is to project how he will end up.
Maybe he could adapt, maybe he couldn't. To me, it's not worth the risk with Bridgewater sitting right there. His biggest weapon is his mind, which I think is the one similarity that every great QB has.
htownfan32
Hall of Fame
Almost all the highlights two pages back were from his freshman year. Let's do more recent stuff. The only egregious jump ball was the one during the Alabama game.
I'm not pushing JF, (my drafts indicate I'm very much a Bridgewater guy) but let's be honest with our appraisal of him.
These are examples of plays he's made all year, and it's obvious that he has shown progression from last year's constant scrambling.
I'm not pushing JF, (my drafts indicate I'm very much a Bridgewater guy) but let's be honest with our appraisal of him.
These are examples of plays he's made all year, and it's obvious that he has shown progression from last year's constant scrambling.
I wish someone would post non running/scraming highlights. That's the problem, his scrambling highlights are so exciting that people tend to ignore the rest of his abilities.
Stemp
Brew Master
Yup.
Manziel stayed in the pocket much more this year and made some amazing throws, with much fewer jump-ball throws. Had he stayed another year and continued improving, I think he'd still be the #1 or #2 QB taken, even with Mariotta and the other guys.
And Manziel's "running ability" isn't really his greatest asset, it's really his quickness and "escape-ability" that comes with a 6th sense of knowing where the pressure is coming from, slipping away or extending the play and still making a good throw.
I just hope for his sake he doesn't get drafted by the Browns. That organization is a great place to kill a promising career.
The thing about Manziel for me is that his "wow" plays cover up so many of his flaws and bad habits when you are watching his games and highlight reels. He is a playmaker no doubt, but can all these crazy plays translate to the next level? Not likely.
Take his most recent performance in the Chick fil A bowl, the play where he jumped over a downline man for no apparent reason, and and the darts back out of the mess to lob a wide open pass to Labhart. It was an incredible play, almost as incredible as the Alabama half fumble TD to Swope play, and as an Aggie I scream and cheer every time he does something like that...but as a sensible football fan I know these type of plays will not work in the NFL.
First off, he panics for no reason. He he had a huge, clean pocket to stay in and go through all his reads to try and find an open man. Instead he decides to take off with out ever scanning the left half of the field, in which he had two guys very open. The whole jumping over the D lineman and bouncing back was exciting, but come on it's a one in a million play. The he runs back out and makes a easy as cake throw to Labhart for the TD. First off he had Walker open on left, he put a double move on his man off the LOS and was open and streaking into the end zone. If Manziel would have seen this, the whole wacky running play would have never been necessary. Plus, he even had Labhart wide open in the flat, in which Johnny saw because Labhart jumped up and down with his hands up and Johnny looked right at him...but instead ignore the smart decision and took of.
I know of course this is just one play, but it is the most recent wow play in memory and is the perfect example of why Johnny will have to change his game a lot to translate into the next level. He improved greatly as a pocket passer from 12 to 13, but he is still a ways away from being ready to do it in the NFL in my opinion, and that is why I don't believe he is worthy of the #1 overall pick.
Take his most recent performance in the Chick fil A bowl, the play where he jumped over a downline man for no apparent reason, and and the darts back out of the mess to lob a wide open pass to Labhart. It was an incredible play, almost as incredible as the Alabama half fumble TD to Swope play, and as an Aggie I scream and cheer every time he does something like that...but as a sensible football fan I know these type of plays will not work in the NFL.
First off, he panics for no reason. He he had a huge, clean pocket to stay in and go through all his reads to try and find an open man. Instead he decides to take off with out ever scanning the left half of the field, in which he had two guys very open. The whole jumping over the D lineman and bouncing back was exciting, but come on it's a one in a million play. The he runs back out and makes a easy as cake throw to Labhart for the TD. First off he had Walker open on left, he put a double move on his man off the LOS and was open and streaking into the end zone. If Manziel would have seen this, the whole wacky running play would have never been necessary. Plus, he even had Labhart wide open in the flat, in which Johnny saw because Labhart jumped up and down with his hands up and Johnny looked right at him...but instead ignore the smart decision and took of.
I know of course this is just one play, but it is the most recent wow play in memory and is the perfect example of why Johnny will have to change his game a lot to translate into the next level. He improved greatly as a pocket passer from 12 to 13, but he is still a ways away from being ready to do it in the NFL in my opinion, and that is why I don't believe he is worthy of the #1 overall pick.
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The thing about Manziel for me is that his "wow" plays cover up so many of his flaws and bad habits when you are watching his games and highlight reels. He is a playmaker no doubt, but can all these crazy plays translate to the next level? Not likely.
Take his most recent performance in the Chick fil A bowl, the play where he jumped over a downline man for no apparent reason, and and the darts back out of the mess to lob a wide open pass to Labhart. It was an incredible play, almost as incredible as the Alabama half fumble TD to Swope play, and as an Aggie I scream and cheer every time he does something like that...but as a sensible football fan I know these type of plays will not work in the NFL.
First off, he panics for no reason. He he had a huge, clean pocket to stay in and go through all his reads to try and find an open man. Instead he decides to take off with out ever scanning the left half of the field, in which he had two guys very open. The whole jumping over the D lineman and bouncing back was exciting, but come on it's a one in a million play. The he runs back out and makes a easy as cake throw to Labhart for the TD. First off he had Kennedy open on left, he put a double move on his man off the LOS and was open and streaking into the end zone. If Manziel would have seen this, the whole wacky running play would have never been necessary. Plus, he even had Labhart wide open in the flat, in which Johnny saw because Labhart jumped up and down with his hands up and Johnny looked right at him...but instead ignore the smart decision and took of.
I know of course this is just one play, but it is the most recent wow play in memory and is the perfect example of why Johnny will have to change his game a lot to translate into the next level. He improved greatly as a pocket passer from 12 to 13, but he is still a ways away from being ready to do it in the NFL in my opinion, and that is why I don't believe he is worthy of the #1 overall pick.
I guess it would of been better IYO if he had just thrown an incomplete pass. Dam him for turning nothing into something.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Haha I agree that it's silly that Manziel's playmaking ability is being turned into such a negative attribute. I think it's a great attribute. I just think he relies on it too often.
I think matts290 is right on this one. When I watch that play, Labhart looks open the whole time. In the NFL, Manziel takes a sack on that play, because he should have seen Labhart much sooner.
Except it wasn't nothing, he had two guys wide open. Sure if everyone was covered and the pressure was bearing down on him. But he he two guys wide open to his left and plenty of time left in the pocket, his O lineman were holding all their blocks. Cedric was stonewalling number #93 and Malena layed a huge block on the blitzing LB.
Not bashing him on making a play, I spilled my beer after if happened I was so excited...just wasn't a play that would have been the right decision in the NFL, much less have worked out that way it did.
drs23
Veteran
That's not at all what I got from 290's post. He pointed out 2 very viable options that Manziel had from the git go instead decided to go all circus, hop over a downed lineman, run into another one's butt then run around before getting rid of the ball. That kinda stuff just ain't gonna fly in the Big Boy League.
bOODRO87
Time Consumer
That's what you got out of that?
Yeh sorry was just being a smart ass. I understand your point. He does do this too much. I believe it can be controlled so I'm not as worried about it as others. Also I think when the game is on the line having someone that can do make these type of plays is invaluable. Look what Wilson did to us this year. Look at what Kapreneck did last week. If it can be regulated it can be the difference between winning and loosing a close game.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Well the point that you, myself, and others in this thread are trying to make is he has shown some serious improvements from last year to this year, and I can only imagine that when he starts receiving pro coaching he will improve even more. If he can learn to taper down a little bit, stay in the pocket a little more (which anyone that watched any of Johnny Football last year and this year will tell you he has improved markedly on), then that playmaking ability of his becomes a serious benefit for his team. He has to continue learning not to rely on it so much and after this last season, I very much believe he will continue to learn to hang in the pocket longer and only bolt to use his playmaking ability as a last resort.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
I also love the fact that none of the anti-Manziel crowd have been willing to engage me on my prior post. Manziel's deep ball numbers are astounding and when combined with the fact that his numbers from the pocket are almost identical to his overall numbers, you really start to see that the arguments used against him about "constantly relying on his playmaking abilities" really are grasping at straws. It is what leads myself and others to conclude that people choose to hate on Johnny Football either because they just don't like him and/or don't like Texas A&M.
Almost all the highlights two pages back were from his freshman year. Let's do more recent stuff. The only egregious jump ball was the one during the Alabama game.
I'm not pushing JF, (my drafts indicate I'm very much a Bridgewater guy) but let's be honest with our appraisal of him.
These are examples of plays he's made all year, and it's obvious that he has shown progression from last year's constant scrambling.
Uh-oh. Weren't the Manziel haters claiming that jump balls to Evans made Manziel?
Hitting his receivers on long bombs perfectly in stride, when the receiver had a step on the defender. Surely better than checkdowns all game long like bridgewater.
Fify!
Errant Hothy
Hypermediocrity
Manziel threw more screens and passes less than 5 yards then Bridgewater did last season.
But it's draft season so the facts, logic and reason all take a back seat.
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