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The All Encompassing FIRE KUBIAK & REPLACEMENT thread II

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I didn't think these numbers deserved their own thread, and kind of belongs in this thread for discussion purposes, if anyone cares.

I've often thought that rating a defense or offense on the yards they've gained or given up is pointless. What will win or lose a game is points on the scoreboard, not yards. So below is a history of how the Texans were ranked in offensive scoring and defensive scoring allowed since 2002. Make of the numbers what you will.

Scoring - Offense
2002 32
2003 28
2004 21
2005 26
2006 28
2007 12
2008 17
2009 10
2010 9
2011 13
2012 8
2013 30

Defense Scoring allowed
2002 20
2003 27
2004 15
2005 32
2006 25
2007 22
2008 27
2009 17
2010 30
2011 4
2012 9
2013 26
 
Hey All, been here lurking for a couple of years and never set up a username until recently. I seen this on BleacherReport, regarding Sumlin and The Texans, so I thought I would post it.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...826/kevin-sumlin-texas-usc-houston-texans-nfl


In the article there is a tweet from Jason La Canfora:

"Along the college coaching lines, there has been plenty of chatter about Coach Sumlin as a potential fit with the Texans ...
Click to expand...

Sumlin would definitely be my choice for HC, but I would like to see them hire a strong OC to go with him.

The funny thing is if Sumlin is the choice, does that put Gary in College Station?

I would like to add that Rick Smith needs to leave as badly as Kubiak, that may be the reason that Kubiak isn't gone yet. Maybe Bob McNair wants to make Rick fire Gary since they seem to be associates in this crime.
Extending Schaub, Kubiak, and not replacing Marciano were only a few of Smiths many blunders.

Draft Failures:
Kareem Jackson
Amobi Okoye
Whitney Merciless
Sam Montgomery
Trevardo Williams
Derek Newton
Antwaun Moulden
Earl Mitchell
Sherrick McMannis
Brooks Reed
Brandon Harris
Rock Carmichael
Derek Newton
Brandon Brooks
Ben Jones

Free Agent Signings/Departure Failures
Ed Reed- Signing
Greg Jones-Signing

The Texans have only had a few significant FA signings (Joseph,Manning, Reed) Reed has been the only major failure but the fact that they lack significant free agent signings is an issue in its own. They also fail to make trades of any significance. They fail to move talent before they lose it, a la Ben Tate. They also fail to bring in players that may just need a change of scenery. They lack an eye for talent in general.

Free agent departures are sometimes a necessary evil in order to maintain a safe cap or to bring in free agent talent. Being that we rarely bring in free agent talent, our departures are typically just cap casualties. The front office must be more efficient with their spending in order to retain high quality football players.
Key areas we lack in like S, OL, LB, have all slipped through our grasp.

Glover Quin- Departure
Joel Dreesen- Departure
Eric Winston- Departure
Mike Brisiel- Departure
Vonta Leach- Departure
Demeco Ryans-Departure
Bernard Pollard-Departure

I often wonder when you see some of the waiver wire pickups, why the Texans aren't making these additions. This team has never had a lock down secondary yet these players are constantly being made available due to crowding in a secondary. How can so many teams have problems with too much talent when the Texans can never put two solid corners on the field at the same time. Instead guys like McCain, Harris, Carmichael are given chance after chance to blow a game.

As far as firing Gary now, there really is no point. You're not going to send a message to the players and other coaches. You will be acknowledging publicly that you are mailing it in for the rest of the season thus jeopardizing the "sell out" streak. As far as the other coaches go, they know that at this point there is no salvaging this season nor changing there reputation from whatever it currently has been tarnished to. It is likely that who ever the new coach is will bring in there replacements thus putting the current regime on cruise control.
 
SportsArsenal said:
Hey All, been here lurking for a couple of years and never set up a username until recently. I seen this on BleacherReport, regarding Sumlin and The Texans, so I thought I would post it.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-foo...826/kevin-sumlin-texas-usc-houston-texans-nfl


In the article there is a tweet from Jason La Canfora:



Sumlin would definitely be my choice for HC, but I would like to see them hire a strong OC to go with him.

The funny thing is if Sumlin is the choice, does that put Gary in College Station?

I would like to add that Rick Smith needs to leave as badly as Kubiak, that may be the reason that Kubiak isn't gone yet. Maybe Bob McNair wants to make Rick fire Gary since they seem to be associates in this crime.
Extending Schaub, Kubiak, and not replacing Marciano were only a few of Smiths many blunders.

Draft Failures:
Kareem Jackson
Amobi Okoye
Whitney Merciless
Sam Montgomery
Trevardo Williams
Derek Newton
Antwaun Moulden
Earl Mitchell
Sherrick McMannis
Brooks Reed
Brandon Harris
Rock Carmichael
Derek Newton
Brandon Brooks
Ben Jones

Free Agent Signings/Departure Failures
Ed Reed- Signing
Greg Jones-Signing

The Texans have only had a few significant FA signings (Joseph,Manning, Reed) Reed has been the only major failure but the fact that they lack significant free agent signings is an issue in its own. They also fail to make trades of any significance. They fail to move talent before they lose it, a la Ben Tate. They also fail to bring in players that may just need a change of scenery. They lack an eye for talent in general.

Free agent departures are sometimes a necessary evil in order to maintain a safe cap or to bring in free agent talent. Being that we rarely bring in free agent talent, our departures are typically just cap casualties. The front office must be more efficient with their spending in order to retain high quality football players.
Key areas we lack in like S, OL, LB, have all slipped through our grasp.

Glover Quin- Departure
Joel Dreesen- Departure
Eric Winston- Departure
Mike Brisiel- Departure
Vonta Leach- Departure
Demeco Ryans-Departure
Bernard Pollard-Departure

I often wonder when you see some of the waiver wire pickups, why the Texans aren't making these additions. This team has never had a lock down secondary yet these players are constantly being made available due to crowding in a secondary. How can so many teams have problems with too much talent when the Texans can never put two solid corners on the field at the same time. Instead guys like McCain, Harris, Carmichael are given chance after chance to blow a game.

As far as firing Gary now, there really is no point. You're not going to send a message to the players and other coaches. You will be acknowledging publicly that you are mailing it in for the rest of the season thus jeopardizing the "sell out" streak. As far as the other coaches go, they know that at this point there is no salvaging this season nor changing there reputation from whatever it currently has been tarnished to. It is likely that who ever the new coach is will bring in there replacements thus putting the current regime on cruise control.
Click to expand...

Given the fact that the team has never been to an afc championship game, it is currently 2-9, and smith has been here for 7years, you could certainly make a strong case for smiths removal. However, if one applied your standard above to very nfl gm, all 32 would be unemployed at season'a end.

Calling the following draft failures is insane:
K Jackson
Mercilus
Emitchell
BBrooks
Bjones

Newton- he was a 7th round pick that started at RT for two years, including for a 12-4 team. I don't like him either but that is a good pick.

Same with the list of players let go... All teams let quality plays go. Regarding letting talent leave, the Demeco trade was very smart, and, other than Quin, that is a list of overpaid players... The issue I have with smith is why haven't those vacated holes been filled.
 
Yeah, the idea that a GM is a failure for not having Pro Bowl talent at every position is a little ridiculous. I'll take a few lumps and have a hit in the 1st round every time.
 
dalemurphy said:
No thanks on gruden or cowher.. They have been away too long and will struggle to put a strong staff together.
Click to expand...
So you think that Gruden or Cowher would have a more difficult time getting top assistants to work under them than a Greg Roman? 8 Cowher assistants have gone on to become NFL head coaches. 5 of Gruden's assistants became NFL head coaches. You don't think coaches are aware of this and would want to work under them?

Greg Roman??? He's on the hot seat in San Fran as the OC. THe Niners offense was ranked 29th heading into the MNF game. The guy has zero credentials to become a NFL head coach. In fact, he's never been a head coach at any level.
 
You notice the shannys are crapping the bed too even with a good qb in rg3. The system is old, slow and outdated. You can put lipstick on a pig (like they did last season) but at the end of the day, its just a hunk of pork. Bottom line, the system they run is outdated, pack it up and send them on their way, no qb will make them look good anymore. The NFL has passed them by.
 
amazing80 said:
You notice the shannys are crapping the bed too even with a good qb in rg3. The system is old, slow and outdated. You can put lipstick on a pig (like they did last season) but at the end of the day, its just a hunk of pork. Bottom line, the system they run is outdated, pack it up and send them on their way, no qb will make them look good anymore. The NFL has passed them by.
Click to expand...

They said that the Skins had the lightest OL in the league and it showed . The 9ers LBs were killing the redskins mainly because the skins couldn't get to the 2nd level .

The Redskins are #2 in the NFL in rushing but #19 in scoring . That sounds kinda familiar .
 
amazing80 said:
You notice the shannys are crapping the bed too even with a good qb in rg3. The system is old, slow and outdated. You can put lipstick on a pig (like they did last season) but at the end of the day, its just a hunk of pork. Bottom line, the system they run is outdated, pack it up and send them on their way, no qb will make them look good anymore. The NFL has passed them by.
Click to expand...

Yep. I messaged a friend in Washington, D.C. last night: "It's time for Kubiak and Shanahan to admit that their system is tired."
 
Tolar's Ghost said:
What's the difference?

McNair judgment - as it relates to football - has been clouded for a long time.

At times I think he's just a younger version of Bud Adams...pretty clueless.
Click to expand...



Bob Allen asked last night (Mon) on Ch 11 " Where has McNair been all this time?"
"He hasn't been heard from since before Kubiak had his stroke"


Think maybe he is jetting around asking questions, visiting prospects for GM or coach, both? Doubt it though, todays media would be all over it.

:coffee:
 
houstonspartan said:
..said the Chiefs.

...and the Seahawks.

...and the 49ers.

...and the Broncos.

...and the Colts.

...and the...


You're right, Dale; Change NEVER works.

Shaking my freaking head.
Click to expand...
Meh-the point he's making is that change doesn't ALWAYS work. We could change to everyone's favorite coaches and GM, draft a "franchise QB" and end up in the same situation 3-4 years from now. Fire everyone again in 4 years and be back in the same situation 3-4 years later. Stability is better but you have to evaluate at the end of each season if it's better to remain on course or roll the dice.

A lot of people won't like this statement but - I think Kubiak could win a Superbowl as a HC. I just don't think he's good enough to do it on his own. He's not a top 5-10 coach. He's just a middle of the pack coach. He needs a top 5 QB to do it with and he's been stuck with (his fault) a top 20 QB. His 2 biggest mistakes have been choosing rookie DCs and sticking with Schaub without bringing in true competition. He has a laundry list of other reasons he should lose his job after the season is over.

A franchise QB makes a good head coach great. A middle of the pack QB makes a good head coach look bad.

That said - time to replace Kubiak and everyone else. Roll the dice McNair.
 
bhsman said:
Yeah, the idea that a GM is a failure for not having Pro Bowl talent at every position is a little ridiculous. I'll take a few lumps and have a hit in the 1st round every time.
Click to expand...

The question should be, do you want a guy with Rick's draft background having the power to handpick his HC?

I dont, this will ensure another 5-10 yr period of the current Texans futility. IMHO Rick is/was nothing more than Gary's yes man. He will probably keep his job because of one thing, He has saved Uncle BoB alot of $$$$ during his tenure. Remember BoB looked up to and admired how Bud did business. It looks like BoB's franchise is headed down the same path. Hiring people like Rick Smith will help ensure ths. IMHO

Rick Smith is to BoB what Ladd Herzeg was to Bud. Only difference is Rick has more class than Ladd could've ever dreamed of having. But make no mistake, they both share the same roles in the org. (Henchmen) See: Ryans/Winston/Reed etc.... anybody that speaks out against the Texans way Losiing ways) will be let go. Speaking out against the Texans way is bad for the brand and BoB doesn't want to kill that golden goose. (Not that I blame him.)
 
houstonspartan said:
..said the Chiefs.

...and the Seahawks.

...and the 49ers.

...and the Broncos.

...and the Colts.

...and the...


You're right, Dale; Change NEVER works.

Shaking my freaking head.
Click to expand...

SO, are your comprehension skills this poor or is this an intentional tactic to distort what I said?

If you look at my post, I said that I believe replacing Kubiak is necessary. I was responding to someone who said "anyone would be better" and questioned why I was so focused on who the replacement would be.

My point is that change, in itself, does not improve create growth/improvement. Most of the historically bad organizations have a history of frequent organizational change. Why a Texan fan would argue with me for suggesting that I want the organization to carefully and thoughtfully select the next head coach is baffling to me and illustrates how much you are motivated by hate and anger towards Kubiak and company rather than genuine affinity for the team.
 
dalemurphy said:
SO, are your comprehension skills this poor or is this an intentional tactic to distort what I said?

If you look at my post, I said that I believe replacing Kubiak is necessary. I was responding to someone who said "anyone would be better" and questioned why I was so focused on who the replacement would be.

My point is that change, in itself, does not improve create growth/improvement. Most of the historically bad organizations have a history of frequent organizational change. Why a Texan fan would argue with me for suggesting that I want the organization to carefully and thoughtfully select the next head coach is baffling to me and illustrates how much you are motivated by hate and anger towards Kubiak and company rather than genuine affinity for the team.
Click to expand...

LOL. You're questioning my affinity for this team? I'm not even going to dignify that nonsense with a response.

I will say this: There are Houston Texans fans, and there are Gary Kubiak fans. You are not a Houston Texans fan. You are a Gary Kubiak fan. That's cool. I respect that. Just OWN it, already and stop pretending that you want what's best for the team.

As Jerome Solomon said yesterday, the "Who else better can we get?" is the lamest, most absurd excuse in all of sports.
 
houstonspartan said:
LOL. You're questioning my affinity for this team? I'm not even going to dignify that nonsense with a response.

I will say this: There are Houston Texans fans, and there are Gary Kubiak fans. You are not a Houston Texans fan. You are a Gary Kubiak fan. That's cool. I respect that. Just OWN it, already and stop pretending that you want what's best for the team.

As Jerome Solomon said yesterday, the "Who else better can we get?" is the lamest, most absurd excuse in all of sports.
Click to expand...

I am both. I am a Texan fan and also a Kubiak fan. I was a Texan fan before Kubiak arrived, and I will be one after he exits. I will also continue to root for him, because I like to see good people succeed. I'm not sure why this upsets people. I have enjoyed the ride the past eight years. I am disappointed that it did not work out better than it has.

I'm not sure what excuse you are referring to? I did not even hint that we shouldn't fire Kubiak. I said it needs to be done, but his removal does not solve any of the team's problems until/unless he is replaced by the right guy. Who could possibly disagree with this?

It appears to me that your rooting interests are much more tied to Kubiak than mine are. I'm wanting to discuss who could come in and coach the Texans to greater success and you are simply fixating on Kubiak and getting rid of him. He's gone. Whether we follow him up with a Bobby Petrino or a Jim Harbaugh is what I care about.
 
Exascor said:
I've never heard that before. How has Smith saved McNair money?
Click to expand...

Thru letting guys like Winston/Ryans go and replacing them with 7th rd picks like Newton/James/Mays. Also the total build thru the draft philosophy is cheaper. It's OK to have that philosophy, but you need to be much... much .... beter at your job than Rick has been if you have that philosophy.

Do you really want the guy (Rick) who signed off on the Schaub extention (C_N_D told us how it was going to end with Schaub) Foster (RB's with over 300 touches always breakdown) making decisions that will impact this franchise for the next decade? I think I will pass on that. BoB should think about the Schaub deal every time he thinks about handing the keys over to Rick Smith.
 
dalemurphy said:
I am both. I am a Texan fan and also a Kubiak fan. I was a Texan fan before Kubiak arrived, and I will be one after he exits. I will also continue to root for him, because I like to see good people succeed. I'm not sure why this upsets people. I have enjoyed the ride the past eight years. I am disappointed that it did not work out better than it has.

I'm not sure what excuse you are referring to? I did not even hint that we shouldn't fire Kubiak. I said it needs to be done, but his removal does not solve any of the team's problems until/unless he is replaced by the right guy. Who could possibly disagree with this?

It appears to me that your rooting interests are much more tied to Kubiak than mine are. I'm wanting to discuss who could come in and coach the Texans to greater success and you are simply fixating on Kubiak and getting rid of him. He's gone. Whether we follow him up with a Bobby Petrino or a Jim Harbaugh is what I care about.
Click to expand...

Kubiak is great people. Many great people that aren't very good at their jobs get fired everyday. Fact is that the Texans would be in much better shape if they had gone out and hired a new regime with a good track record after the 2010 season. But BoB didn't want to do anything traumatic and here we sit today looking at the #1 draft pick for the 3rd time in a 12 yr span. That screams of ineptness and it's time to bring in a whole new regime. If BoB doesn't it will show the fanbase how much he really cares about winning vs making $$$$.

BTW, Give me Gruden, Jay Gruden that is. He's got the same fire that Jon used to have and this org would get some much needed accountability/discipline. Which is why BoB will never hire a coach like Gruden. He wont fit in with the Texans way.
 
steelbtexan said:
Thru letting guys like Winston/Ryans go and replacing them with 7th rd picks like Newton/James/Mays. Also the total build thru the draft philosophy is cheaper. It's OK to have that philosophy, but you need to be much... much .... beter at your job than Rick has been if you have that philosophy.

Do you really want the guy (Rick) who signed off on the Schaub extention (C_N_D told us how it was going to end with Schaub) Foster (RB's with over 300 touches always breakdown) making decisions that will impact this franchise for the next decade? I think I will pass on that. BoB should think about the Schaub deal every time he thinks about handing the keys over to Rick Smith.
Click to expand...
I want Smith gone but your logic is flawed. Smith has spent the full salary cap each year. That's not saving McNair money. This isn't MLB. I thought you meant that Smith was getting paid way less than other GMs. hehe

Back to the anti-Kubiak talk.
 
steelbtexan said:
]Kubiak is great people. Many great people that aren't very good at their jobs get fired everyday. Fact is that the Texans would be in much better shape if they had gone out and hired a new regime with a good track record after the 2010 season. But BoB didn't want to do anything traumatic and here we sit today looking at the #1 draft pick for the 3rd time in a 12 yr span. That screams of ineptness and it's time to bring in a whole new regime. If BoB doesn't it will show the fanbase how much he really cares about winning vs making $$$$.[/B]

BTW, Give me Gruden, Jay Gruden that is. He's got the same fire that Jon used to have and this org would get some much needed accountability/discipline. Which is why BoB will never hire a coach like Gruden. He wont fit in with the Texans way.
Click to expand...

Correct. I would give Gary Kubiak - a perfect stranger - the keys to my house, the pin number to my checking account, my wallet and every other asset I own. He's simply a good dude.

I will not, however, give him the head coaching position of a billion dollar franchise (if I owned one).

And, yes, had we made the right move in 2010 and replaced him, we would be in much better shape.

Also, there's this: McNair did Kubiak more harm by keeping him after 2010. If he'd been fired after 2010, Kubiak's record wouldn't be so glaring. Now, three years later, when you look at the big picture of Kubiak's head coaching tenure, all you see is a big line of fail. That will prevent him from getting a head coaching job again, I'm guessing.

Sometimes you do people a favor by firing them.
 
houstonspartan said:
Correct. I would give Gary Kubiak - a perfect stranger - the keys to my house, the pin number to my checking account, my wallet and every other asset I own. He's simply a good dude.

I will not, however, give him the head coaching position of a billion dollar franchise (if I owned one).

And, yes, had we made the right move in 2010 and replaced him, we would be in much better shape.

Also, there's this: McNair did Kubiak more harm by keeping him after 2010. If he'd been fired after 2010, Kubiak's record wouldn't be so glaring. Now, three years later, when you look at the big picture of Kubiak's head coaching tenure, all you see is a big line of fail. That will prevent him from getting a head coaching job again, I'm guessing.

Sometimes you do people a favor by firing them.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to argue the point that he needs to go. The perfect flush happened in the AFC South that allowed the Texans to hang two banners. I'm sure Kubiak had something to do with that but I'm not here to defend him. I agree at this point he's toast and needs to start cleaning out his office probably around December 28th because I'm sure he's accumulated alot of stuff in 8 years. He'll need every bit of those two days.

My main point here and a few other threads is: Where is the empirical evidence that "we would be in much better shape."? There's no way you can guarantee that. Nowhere close even. We could have and may still have a replacement that looks really great on paper that wilts like dead weeds and has no success in righting the ship. As several others have stated, it could get worse. I hope like hell it gets us to the show but my point is, there's no guarantee. For every 'good time, great turn-around story' that's been spewed my bet is an astute Googler can find twice as many, probably more, that imploded.

That's all I'm saying.

Carry on.
 
cuppacoffee said:
Bob Allen asked last night (Mon) on Ch 11 " Where has McNair been all this time?"
"He hasn't been heard from since before Kubiak had his stroke"


Think maybe he is jetting around asking questions, visiting prospects for GM or coach, both? Doubt it though, todays media would be all over it.

:coffee:
Click to expand...

Not saying he's definitely doing it of anything but with his wealth and lack of celebrity it's possible he could move around all stealthy and that.

Don't assume the work isn't being done just because we don't know about it, it would be very out of character if we were to know.

On a seperate note, I really don't disagree all that much with the decision to stick with Kubiak after 2010, although I wanted him gone at the time. I think the guy ended up working against his normal MO in spending big money on FAs.

Now JoJo and Manning have both played their part on this team and overall been good additions in isolation, but if you want to build through the draft and then you begin letting your depth/solid starters walk because you don't have the mid-range money available because you spend over $10M a season on your FA CB plus whatever Manning is costing, then it's going to lead to the wheels falling off at some point.

Kubes wasn't looking likely to get us over the top without that money spent, he almost did for a while because of it, but then lost a lost of the mid-range talent because of it too.

Had we continued to draft well then the point would be moot.

It was the right thing to do to give him the shot though and we got our most successful couple of years since inception off the back of it.

I think the new coach is going to have more top talent to work with now than he would've had in 2011, I think if we cut the chord on Schaub, and knock some money off antonio Smith's cap hit, suddenly the coach has a bit of wiggle room until the watt contract is up which he can use to give time to prepare a few guys on rookie contracts over the next few years.

Things could be good again very soon. Especially with the rookie QB discount spent wisely.
 
drs23 said:
My main point here and a few other threads is: Where is the empirical evidence that "we would be in much better shape."? There's no way you can guarantee that. Nowhere close even. We could have and may still have a replacement that looks really great on paper that wilts like dead weeds and has no success in righting the ship. As several others have stated, it could get worse. I hope like hell it gets us to the show but my point is, there's no guarantee. For every 'good time, great turn-around story' that's been spewed my bet is an astute Googler can find twice as many, probably more, that imploded.
Click to expand...

Variations of this argument have been used to defend keeping Kubiak for years. Of course there is no guarantee that the next coach will be better. However, given that Kubiak's teams have under-achieved for about six of his eight years, I think it is more certain that things aren't going to get better with Kubiak than with a new coach.

I've read for years that keeping Kubiak and staying the course would guarantee a decade of playoff appearances. I never joined the enlightened on that, no matter how many stories about the 60s and 70s Cowboys and Steelers were passed about. There was obviously no guarantee then, and there isn't one now.

However, there is enough data to predict how the Texans will perform if this regime maintains control for a few more years. Change is necessary and overdue.
 
Even if the Texans suck under a new head coach at least we'll have something new to b*tch about.
 
drs23 said:
There's no way you can guarantee that. Nowhere close even. We could have and may still have a replacement that looks really great on paper that wilts like dead weeds and has no success in righting the ship. As several others have stated, it could get worse. I hope like hell it gets us to the show but my point is, there's no guarantee. For every 'good time, great turn-around story' that's been spewed my bet is an astute Googler can find twice as many, probably more, that imploded.

That's all I'm saying.

Carry on.
Click to expand...

You can use that as a reason not to hire anyone.

Where is this heaven sent head coach that will descend upon our fair city and lead us to the promise land? What coach is not going to have question marks? What coach is out there where everyone would agree that he was the guy to do it?

Patriots could fire belichick tommorrow and people would say, he's nothing without Brady. He hasn't won since he stopped cheating. Folks would find a reason that he wouldn't be successful here.

Lombardi could crawl out his grave and people would say he's too old, been away from the game too long....and undead HC's are creepy...

Probably all legit criticisms. But that's the point....there is no perfect solution. If there was, then this wouldn't be real life where tough decisions are par for the course.

Either way, we know what we have hasn't worked.
 
Last edited:
Rey said:
Lombardi could crawl out his grave and people would say he's too old, been away from the game too long....and undead HC's are creepy...
Click to expand...
Every undead coach I've seen is creepy. Not sure they are Texans worthy anyways.

Nice touch Rey. MSR
 
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Rey said:
You can use that as a reason not to hire anyone.

Where is this heaven sent head coach that will descend upon our fair city and lead us to the promise land? What coach is not going to have question marks? What coach is out there where everyone would agree that he was the guy to do it?

Patriots could fire belichick tommorrow and people would say, he's nit hung without Brady. He hasn't won since he stopped cheating. Folks would find a reason that he wouldn't be successful here.

Lombardi could crawl out his grave and people would say he's too old, been away from the game too long....and undead HC's are creepy...

Probably all legit criticisms. But that's the point....there is no perfect solution. If there was, then this wouldn't be real life where tough decisions are par for the course.

Either way, we know what we haven't hasn't worked.
Click to expand...

The guy .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKOBqH8pQaQ
 
Quote:
Greg Koch ‏@gregkoch1 1h

Just got report from source, Jon Gruden at IAH......hmm, sightseeing day after Thanksgiving?.....

Please, say IT AIN'T SO! No Chucky here. Please...
 
drs23 said:
Quote:
Greg Koch ‏@gregkoch1 1h

Just got report from source, Jon Gruden at IAH......hmm, sightseeing day after Thanksgiving?.....

Please, say IT AIN'T SO! No Chucky here. Please...
Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm not a big "Chucky" fan BUT and "I like big BUTTS and can not lie" we gotta change this thing up, man.

I like Kubiak and really wanted him to be successful. It's run it's course - time to move on. Time to go along with Rick Smith.
 
I'm not sure I understand people's issues with Gruden, he's a great coach. I wonder if the naysayers have watched him coach much. I have followed the Raiders as well since the 80s ( it's been really tough the last decade) so I've seen all his Raider games and I watched all his games in Tampa as well. He runs the WCO offense so there would be little transition time offensively. He's tough and demands accountability from his players. In my opinion, signing him would be great. I'd keep Wade and give him one more chance to clean up the D otherwise he's gone next season as well.

Oh, and for those that say he won with Dungys guys, tell me who he beat in the SB that year... His old guys in OAK.
 
otisbean said:
Oh, and for those that say he won with Dungys guys, tell me who he beat in the SB that year... His old guys in OAK.
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Why do Gruden fans act like this helps him?

I guess Callahan was a better coach than Gruden since he got Gruden's team further than Gruden.
 
Texan_Bill said:
Yeah, I'm not a big "Chucky" fan BUT and "I like big BUTTS and can not lie" we gotta change this thing up, man.

I like Kubiak and really wanted him to be successful. It's run it's course - time to move on. Time to go along with Rick Smith.
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I've got no argument with any of that at all TB. It's time to blow this thing up. It's just that Gruden wouldn't be my choice.
 
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