LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak can’t rely on ‘the system’ he has to f

[76Texan]

We all know that Schaub doesn't have the biggest arm, far from that.

But I know he overthrew Andre Davis a few times; I remembered wishing that he had put a little more air under those balls.

But why harping on the details, we all knew he's somewhere under/over average in that department.

He's getting paid for less than the norm (if you prorated the contracts out to cover a whole career), why would you expect him to be much better than what he's getting paid for?

 

[GP]

WTF are you talking about? He threw 5 long balls the entire game. & unless there's a play that i'm forgetting about, only 1 of them was underthrown.

1 was underthrown to Casey
1 was thrown perfectly to AJ in the end zone that he dropped
1 was overthrown to AJ in the end zone - int
1 was overthrown to Jean on the sideline- barely

the was another thrown deep but it was a pass interference on Davis

That's 1 damn clearly underthrown long pass of 5 on sunday.

& for the record, i never said any damn thing about it being a 1 game thing..He underthrows passes all the time...but so does every qb in the league...Just b/c the WR makes a play on it and comes down with it doesn't mean that they didn't have to slow down for it and adjust...or turn around to catch it doesn't mean it wasn't underthrown.

Someone listening to you would believe every single pass this dude threw was underthrown.

I sound ridiculous? you sound ridiculous...but i get it, that kinda stuff doesn't fit into your nice neat box...

There are certain throws of his that are always too short, mostly anything over 15 or 20 yards. Sometimes he overthrows, though. Rarely has this guy ever hit a WR in perfect stride on a DEEP pass.

The timing throws, like slants and seam routes and stuff...those that are pretty flat on their trajectory...he can handle. Throwing up a really deep pass, though, he gets it to the moon and even a guy like Kevin Walter (slow as molasses) has to slow down.

If Kevin Walter is slowing down for your deep passes, brother you got a problem at QB on those throws.

 

[Corrosion]

The strength of a QB's throw is primarily dependent on strength of chest muscles (mostly pec) AND strength of leg muscles transferred to the plant foot. That "repaired" back foot is what a QB relies on for that "umf" you speak of. Whether because of any residual instability of repair following the removal of his hardware, or stretching of the healed ligaments as the season has progressed, or simply from pain or tenderness (very common chronic progressive problem following repair of Lisfranc with fracture, just ask Marcus), any one of these will significantly affect velocity, distance and accuracy. All of these will be a major factor in maintaining "balance." If you are trying to compensate for any of the things I mentioned, you will try to avoid placing stress on the affected areas. This easily compromises the consistency of all aspects of a QB's passing game. When you lose the ability to fully balance in motion using your back foot as main support, you are forced to regain some of that balance with the increased use of that front foot rather than solely allowing it to work for aiming balance. This can easily account for the awkward final positions of his front foot, something I've coincidentally also discussed with several MB members in the past.

Schaub no doubt is wearing a nonyielding full-length orthotic shoe insert or sole to avoid undue stresses on the ball of his foot that would transmit those stresses to the Lisfranc area.......in other words, trying to avoid recreating the forces that led to the injury in the first place.





The fact that this orthotic does not allow the free bending of the ball of the foot joint area, should make it clear that "push off" with his plant foot would require in itself some adjustment to mechanics.

To make it more simple to understand. Fashion a plank of plywood. Stick it in your sneakers. Put a pair of socks on...............but before that, put a small pebble in it near the back end of your instep (arch) to replicate some "discomfort." Feel free to use a larger rock for greater "discomfort." Then tie your laces up tightly. Now go out there, run around, and try passing the football around. You may find that things don't work out too well for you.........and less and less as you are out there longer and longer.

To put it mildly , Schaub is damaged goods and isnt going to get any better over the long haul.
He'll have that plywood and rock in his shoe for the duration ....

 

[Say Watt]

To put it mildly , Schaub is damaged goods and isnt going to get any better over the long haul.
He'll have that plywood and rock in his shoe for the duration ....

And our front office was intelligent enough to give him an extension before the season...

 

[GuerillaBlack]

And our front office was intelligent enough to give him an extension before the season...

No, just one game. That was all they needed to see before giving him 24.5M guaranteed.

 

[GP]

No, just one game. That was all they needed to see before giving him 24.5M guaranteed.

Yep. Immediately after the game it was tweeted by various Houston sports media yayhoos that Rick and Bob gave Matt a new deal.

I mean, talk about premature ejaculation of cash and contract terms!

Sheesh, what a frigging dumb thing to do. It's as if they did that to quash the whole Peyton Manning situation whereby Kubiak told Matt (jokingly) to go get Manning at the airport. Yeah, he has a great game in Game 1 of a 16-game season and by gawd! let's get this awesome QB locked up.

"Look! LOOK! We got us a great QB too! We're juuuuust fine here in Houston!"

Reeks of P.R. move, to me. But hell, we were so high on our own fumes that we couldn't see it for that. Look back on it now, though.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Yep. Immediately after the game it was tweeted by various Houston sports media yayhoos that Rick and Bob gave Matt a new deal.

I mean, talk about premature ejaculation of cash and contract terms!

Sheesh, what a frigging dumb thing to do. It's as if they did that to quash the whole Peyton Manning situation whereby Kubiak told Matt (jokingly) to go get Manning at the airport. Yeah, he has a great game in Game 1 of a 16-game season and by gawd! let's get this awesome QB locked up.

"Look! LOOK! We got us a great QB too! We're juuuuust fine here in Houston!"

Reeks of P.R. move, to me. But hell, we were so high on our own fumes that we couldn't see it for that. Look back on it now, though.

msr

 

[steelbtexan]

msr

LOL

Got him

 

[GP]

Makes one wonder if this "meltdown" we're having is due to Schaub's premature contract.

You think any of those guys don't sit there from time to time and second-guess Matt's potential, too?

I think Foster earned his. Myers earned his. Brown, as well.

But when guys like 'Meco and Winston and Brisiel and Dressen are walking (for various reasons) and then this organization gives MATT SCHAUB a guaranteed deal after the very first game???

Sometimes people are not as loyal as old Gary Don Kubiak. That is a plausible reason that this team, its core leaders, are barely treading water. You gotta dig deep into the suitcase of courage at this time of year in the NFL. These guys are barely flinching that they got smoked in two HFA-clinching attempts. Andre is, to me, the only one who's like "Goddammit! My time is almost up! YOU HEAR ME?" Everyone else is almost really just coasting. WHY? It's not just fluke loss of momentum. There's deeper stuff. Think about the Ben Tate episodes too. I don't think guys appreciated how Gary treated Ben in the media. I think Gary's a SMALL person when the curtains are pulled back. IMO.

The Broncos are showing that they 100% will lay down their lives and do whatever it takes. Why? Leadership. Consistent, reliable, quantifiable leadership from their QB. Period.

That knowledge that you, as a defense or any other player out there, can literally fly like there's no tomorrow because your QB is ready to go. He got you. Do what you do. Forehead GOT you. At the endo f the day, I have to respect that as a fan of football. I have to absolutely stand up, clap my hands at the TV, and congratulate any of these teams who went out on limbs to do WHATEVER it took.

Carroll choosing unknown Wilson over Flynn, and sticking by him.

Harbaugh for benching Smith and trying Kap. For signing a damn KICKER today to compete against the veteran Akers. Right before the playoffs!

Shanahan for trusting RGIII and that Baylor system he ran so well.

Colts for tanking in 2011 and then not only getting Luck but letting him run the Stanford system more or less.

Patriots for taking chances on castaways and teaching us all that every "would be star" just wants a chance to play for a winner.

The list is long. Teams are shaking things up out there. Like DB said, we're getting passed by but hell..we were never "there" anyways. That's why so many in the media wouldn't give us that "love" we wanted, btw. We see why. Now.

 

[GP]

The Texans were wise, P.R. wise.

They got out ahead of Peyton's progressively better performances as the season was wearing on.

By signing Schaub early, and running wreck over teams--even Peyton's Broncos--you felt like, "Man! We DID make the right choice!" You didn't want a Schitty Schaub at the end of the season and UH-OH! what.in.the.hell? you mean Peyton's team has a bye and looks way better than Schaub???

This way, Schaub is forced upon you. Locked up. Now we gots cap ramifications, too, so..uhh.umm..well...we can't move him NOW!

This might be my best conspiracy theory YET!

 

[Corrosion]

The Texans were wise, P.R. wise.

They got out ahead of Peyton's progressively better performances as the season was wearing on.

By signing Schaub early, and running wreck over teams--even Peyton's Broncos--you felt like, "Man! We DID make the right choice!" You didn't want a Schitty Schaub at the end of the season and UH-OH! what.in.the.hell? you mean Peyton's team has a bye and looks way better than Schaub???

This way, Schaub is forced upon you. Locked up. Now we gots cap ramifications, too, so..uhh.umm..well...we can't move him NOW!

This might be my best conspiracy theory YET!

Schaub isnt forced upon us .... they can cut him after next season with minimal cap damage. As Badboy pointed out in one of the mock threads .... Smith gave him a very team friendly contract.


Dont know why you bring Pey-Me-A-Ton into the conversation again .... dude was far more expensive than the Texans could afford due to the cap .... and he was damaged goods. No one really knew if he could return from that neck injury.

The Bronco's were in perfect position to take the gamble ..... They had a zero at QB along with the cap space to get a deal done.

 

[DX-TEX]

Schaub isnt forced upon us .... they can cut him after next season with minimal cap damage. As Badboy pointed out in one of the mock threads .... Smith gave him a very team friendly contract.


Dont know why you bring Pey-Me-A-Ton into the conversation again .... dude was far more expensive than the Texans could afford due to the cap .... and he was damaged goods. No one really knew if he could return from that neck injury.

The Bronco's were in perfect position to take the gamble ..... They had a zero at QB along with the cap space to get a deal done.

There was talk that Peyton would have taken less from Houston. It was the only spot he REALLY wanted to go to so he could stick it to Irsay twice a year. After we rejected him he moved on and the bidding commenced. None of this will ever be confirmed until after he retires Im sure.

 

[Texecutioner]

I think the future of the NFL is in small, mobile QBs who have big fast WRs.

Russell Wilson and the Seahawks is the prime example.

Pete Carroll might have just become the next Bill Belichick in terms of finally learning what it takes to win in the NFL. Bill struggled multiple times before landing in N.E. and then stumbling upon Tom Brady...and even then, he had not employed the spread offense that eventually Tom Brady led into great success.

Pete should have started Matt Flynn, based on the standard "rules" of what happens when you pay a Qb a starter's salary. Pete, though, decided to go with a gut instinct. And I think the Seahawks might just play in the SB because of it.

They're legitimately dangerous now.

You have to go on gut instincts, and Kubiak and Smith just can't do that. It's still very old school to them. Loyalty and methodical plodding is the order of the day. Kubiak would never go for a fake punt when he's up on a team by 3 or 4 scores...Pete has learned what Bill learned: Eff 'em.

We're nice, as if we're to believe that the football gods prefer gentlemen and scholars. Look what it gets us.

Lets see if Pete Carroll can win a few playoff games and then a few SB's before anyone even remotely calls him the potentially the next BB of the NFL. BB has won 3 out of 5 SB's as a HC and won 2 SB's as a DC.

Carroll doesn't even have anything to be mentioned in the same breath as BB as of now. He has a great college career, but he hasn't built anything to compare him to BB as of yet. He's got at least 3 SB appearances before that takes place.

 

[Corrosion]

There was talk that Peyton would have taken less from Houston. It was the only spot he REALLY wanted to go to so he could stick it to Irsay twice a year. After we rejected him he moved on and the bidding commenced. None of this will ever be confirmed until after he retires Im sure.

Its already been refuted .... Just put on your and wait a decade or so.


Point blank , Bob Allen gave bad information. Just the media being the media trying to make a mountian out of a molehill .... Do you really believe Pey-Me-A-Ton would leave $10m on the table ?! (thats the difference between Schaub and Manning this year roughly.)


Never waste a controversy.

 

[playa465]

The Good
The Bad
and
The Ugly

 

[Texecutioner]

Its already been refuted .... Just put on your and wait a decade or so.


Point blank , Bob Allen gave bad information. Just the media being the media trying to make a mountian out of a molehill .... Do you really believe Pey-Me-A-Ton would leave $10m on the table ?! (thats the difference between Schaub and Manning this year roughly.)


Never waste a controversy.

I was just as frustrated as anybody that we didn't at least "try" to get Manning, but I know that we didn't have the chance financially, so it's a moot point really. Way to many moves they would have been able to make personel wise to free up the cap space. Also, Rick Smith is incapable of being able to accomplish that regardless of how hard he could try. When it comes to blockbuster moves, Rick Smith is way to conservative to ever go after a blockbuster deal like that with full force.

I don't know why people keep bringing up Manning. It doesn't matter now any way. We have what we have. Might as well discuss what we can do going forward as opposed to these mental masturbation arguments of how we could have landed Manning.

 

[gtexan02]

Remember in 2009 when we always had guys open in the middle of the field for 15 yard gains plus YAC? What happened to that?


The difference is not Schaub so much as it is play call and separation. I don't see guys open like I did 3 years ago. Is it because we don't have the personnel? Is it because we don't have the playcalls? That's not on Schaub

 

[Texan_Bill]

There was talk that Peyton would have taken less from Houston. It was the only spot he REALLY wanted to go to so he could stick it to Irsay twice a year. After we rejected him he moved on and the bidding commenced. None of this will ever be confirmed until after he retires Im sure.

Not 'that' much less from Houston. The Texans still couldn't have afforded him. Admitting anything less is simply disingenous.


**********

At the end of the day, Schaub's lack of production lately comes down to what DocJean (aka CnD) predicted based on his knowledge of Schaub's Linsfranc fracture...

**********

I guess the Texans will have to figure out a way to win in other ways. For example: How about the Texans "D" getting off the field. As I understand it (and I have not re-watched the Colts game), The Colts got the ball with (9:46 left in the 4th). That said, the Texans used their timeouts, but never got the ball back.

Seriously? The Colts got the ball with 9:46 left in the 4th and the Texans never touched the ball again? BTW, the Colts ran out 9:46 of the clock and they're not a prolific rushing team.

I'm not defending Schaub, but at the same time, yeah..... this team has issues!

This team has just as big problems in other phases of the game.

 

[Textan]

In a nutshell; Schaub's not an all-star QB. Kubiak keeps trying the same magic even after our opponents have made adjustments/homework to those very same plays he keeps calling over and over again.
That gigantic plastic, laminated play card is just a prop in an effort to try and intimidate, but other teams know only five or so plays are ever used from it.

 

[dalemurphy]

In a nutshell; Schaub's not an all-star QB. Kubiak keeps trying the same magic even after our opponents have made adjustments/homework to those very same plays he keeps calling over and over again.
That gigantic plastic, laminated play card is just a prop in an effort to try and intimidate, but other teams know only five or so plays are ever used from it.

Kubiak is not the quickest to change and adapt. He does, though. I think we are looking at a painful lesson this year and a quick exit from the playoffs. I believe Kubiak will assess the season and realize he failed to adjust after the Cushing injury and redirect the offense to an aggressive and attacking offense that used the pass to set up the run (2008, 2009 and 2010). Moving forward, he won't make that mistake again. Unfortunately, that doesn't help us this year. Fortunately, though, the team is set up for continued success and some of the pain we experienced this year will be addressed with personnel additions... We should have 11 or 12 draft picks and very little dead money eating away at our cap.

Though our head coach and QB are not elite, they are good and they are committed. Furthermore, we have a very good coaching staff and wealth of young talent, high character and committed players, an owner who wants to win, lots of draft picks, JJ Watt, Cushing, Joseph, ASmith, Quin, KJackson, DBrown, Foster, Tate, AJ, OD, Myers... We will have a good shot again next year. We are now one of the elite organizations and we are experiencing what they all experience most seasons. New England has gone how many years since they won a Superbowl?... with Tom Brady and Belichek in place. McNair's philosophy and willingness to stick with Kubiak and Smith after 2010 has paid off. We can expect to win double-digits again next year and playoff success will ultimately come down to variables like health, playoff matchups, and whether the team is peaking at the right time.

This season is not going to end well, but the team is positioned well and one disappointing finish should not be over-analyzed. Remember, the same head coach won the division and a playoff game with a 3rd string, rookie QB last season and threatened advancing to the AFC Championship game. It is not as though he has not shown the ability to win big games or get a lot out of limited talent in high pressure situations.

 

[DX-TEX]

Its already been refuted .... Just put on your and wait a decade or so.


Point blank , Bob Allen gave bad information. Just the media being the media trying to make a mountian out of a molehill .... Do you really believe Pey-Me-A-Ton would leave $10m on the table ?! (thats the difference between Schaub and Manning this year roughly.)


Never waste a controversy.

What I read was from a Denver Broncose beat writer, I just cant remember who but it wasnt Allen. I trust no Houston media types.

 

[Corrosion]

What I read was from a Denver Broncose beat writer, I just cant remember who but it wasnt Allen. I trust no Houston media types.

Hearsay.


Unadmissible.


If it didnt come from the Texans brass ... or Pey-Me-A-Ton .... its worthless.

 

[76Texan]

There was talk that Peyton would have taken less from Houston. It was the only spot he REALLY wanted to go to so he could stick it to Irsay twice a year. After we rejected him he moved on and the bidding commenced. None of this will ever be confirmed until after he retires Im sure.

Its already been refuted .... Just put on your and wait a decade or so.


Point blank , Bob Allen gave bad information. Just the media being the media trying to make a mountian out of a molehill .... Do you really believe Pey-Me-A-Ton would leave $10m on the table ?! (thats the difference between Schaub and Manning this year roughly.)


Never waste a controversy.

What I read was from a Denver Broncose beat writer, I just cant remember who but it wasnt Allen. I trust no Houston media types.

So Payless got rejected by the Texans even though he offered himself for cheap.
He then sign with the Broncos for beaucoup money; then he goes on and spill it all to a Broncos beat writer. You know, the Texans could have me for less. I didn't entertain a single offer. I was saving my cherry just for them, but they sent Schaub to chase me away. Next thing I know I'm in Denver with a big check in my hand. You know I don't care for it; the Texans could have had me for less.

Yeah, that sounds about right!
I know I can trust that beat writer better than Bob Allen; I don't even need to know who he is, as long as he's not affiliated with anybody from the Houston media.

 

[Corrosion]

So Payless got rejected by the Texans even though he offered himself for cheap.
He then sign with the Broncos for beaucoup money; then he goes on and spill it all to a Broncos beat writer. You know, the Texans could have me for less. I didn't entertain a single offer. I was saving my cherry just for them, but they sent Schaub to chase me away. Next thing I know I'm in Denver with a big check in my hand. You know I don't care for it; the Texans could have had me for less.

Yeah, that sounds about right!
I know I can trust that beat writer better than Bob Allen; I don't even need to know who he is, as long as he's not affiliated with anybody from the Houston media.

:vincepalm:


One of these days , you'll all know the absolute truth.


I need some absolute vodka in the mean time. Man I hate Vodka and Russians about as much as Reagan did.

 

[TejasTom]

Kubiak is not the quickest to change and adapt...

Snails slowing down for speed bumps pass him.

 

[Textan]

Kubiak is not the quickest to change and adapt. He does, though. I think we are looking at a painful lesson this year and a quick exit from the playoffs. I believe Kubiak will assess the season and realize he failed to adjust after the Cushing injury and redirect the offense to an aggressive and attacking offense that used the pass to set up the run (2008, 2009 and 2010). Moving forward, he won't make that mistake again. Unfortunately, that doesn't help us this year. Fortunately, though, the team is set up for continued success and some of the pain we experienced this year will be addressed with personnel additions... We should have 11 or 12 draft picks and very little dead money eating away at our cap.

Though our head coach and QB are not elite, they are good and they are committed. Furthermore, we have a very good coaching staff and wealth of young talent, high character and committed players, an owner who wants to win, lots of draft picks, JJ Watt, Cushing, Joseph, ASmith, Quin, KJackson, DBrown, Foster, Tate, AJ, OD, Myers... We will have a good shot again next year. We are now one of the elite organizations and we are experiencing what they all experience most seasons. New England has gone how many years since they won a Superbowl?... with Tom Brady and Belichek in place. McNair's philosophy and willingness to stick with Kubiak and Smith after 2010 has paid off. We can expect to win double-digits again next year and playoff success will ultimately come down to variables like health, playoff matchups, and whether the team is peaking at the right time.

This season is not going to end well, but the team is positioned well and one disappointing finish should not be over-analyzed. Remember, the same head coach won the division and a playoff game with a 3rd string, rookie QB last season and threatened advancing to the AFC Championship game. It is not as though he has not shown the ability to win big games or get a lot out of limited talent in high pressure situations.

I appreciate your opinion, so please don't be offended by some of my counter-arguments.
Coaches and players study film. They do it excessively, hours on end. To me a coach who can't see the writing on the wall after one game, maybe two at the most, is living in a state of denial I'd hate to witness, but I guess I am while watching these games. If this is indeed the case "Kubiak" failed the team and the fans.
I'm sure you know the definition of insanity, well Kubiak's coaching this year is a perfect example.
Sure, I can see why he'd try the same scheme maybe a game or two, but this is freaking ridiculous.
To me Kubiak's ability to lead a team Captained by a 3rd string QB as far as he did last year, and this monumental collapse this year "barring some incredible heroics these coming weeks" tells me he's digressed as a coach, not learned or moved forward.
Seriously, how stubborn do you have to be?
And, I'm a conservative for the most part, but Kubiak's giving that ideology a bad name lately.
Schaub, Schaub is decent when no pressure threatens his comfort zone. I was once comfortable saying that, but seeing him under-throw, or just plain miss wide open receivers lately has me questioning even his ability to do that.
He can't scramble, improvise, or just basically run at greater than a Sloth's pace.
I see this team going nowhere anytime soon with Schaub at the helm. Again, unless some unforeseen Schaub rears his head these coming weeks, he will have been outplayed by a 3rd string QB with zilch experience.
How can you over-analyze something so horribly wrong as this teams monumental collapse?

 

[TheMatrix31]

lol @ people acting like we gave Schaub an extension just because of one game.

Yeah, I'm really sure they drew up that deal in the 15 minutes from the end of the game to when it was announced, bro. And I'm REALLY sure it was just because of that one game. Yeah, okay.

Jiminy Christmas.

 

[thunderkyss]

Kubiak is not the quickest to change and adapt. He does, though. I think we are looking at a painful lesson this year and a quick exit from the playoffs. I believe Kubiak will assess the season and realize he failed to adjust after the Cushing injury and redirect the offense to an aggressive and attacking offense that used the pass to set up the run (2008, 2009 and 2010).

I think we would like to pin Kubiak into a corner where being "aggressive" is the only answer. But I don't think he looks at it as being aggressive/conservative. He puts his best plays in the game & it's up to his players to execute.

You know that every play has multiple receivers, usually there's a deep, intermediate, short/checkdown. If Matt is going to his check down, or continually checking to a run play, we look at that & call it "conservative" & blame Kubiak. When it may be a Matt Schaub "confidence" issue.

Kubiak didn't call a 4 yard dump off to Andre on 3rd & a mile.

Even the third & long draws... Kubiak straight up said that one in particular a play was called to get Casey wide open, but Schaub didn't like what he saw & checked to a run. He said he tried to get that play in 3 times, we only saw it once. The other two times, Schaub checked out.

 

[GuerillaBlack]

lol @ people acting like we gave Schaub an extension just because of one game.

Yeah, I'm really sure they drew up that deal in the 15 minutes from the end of the game to when it was announced, bro. And I'm REALLY sure it was just because of that one game. Yeah, okay.

Jiminy Christmas.

Well obviously it wasn't written in 15 minutes. Everyone knows that. The problem is the Texans giving him the deal after one game, as if one good game was all they needed to see in order to give him the deal. His injury (and past injuries) be damned. Schaub is an elite QB after this one game. We don't need to see him string together a couple of performances first.

 

[Mr teX]

Well obviously it wasn't written in 15 minutes. Everyone knows that. The problem is the Texans giving him the deal after one game, as if one good game was all they needed to see in order to give him the deal. His injury (and past injuries) be damned. Schaub is an elite QB after this one game. We don't need to see him string together a couple of performances first.

Then the 1 game had zero effect...In all likelihood is that the contract was being drawn up before he even played that 1 game everyone is talking about...meaning it was going to happen regardless.

 

[TexanSam]

Yep. Immediately after the game it was tweeted by various Houston sports media yayhoos that Rick and Bob gave Matt a new deal.

I mean, talk about premature ejaculation of cash and contract terms!

Sheesh, what a frigging dumb thing to do. It's as if they did that to quash the whole Peyton Manning situation whereby Kubiak told Matt (jokingly) to go get Manning at the airport. Yeah, he has a great game in Game 1 of a 16-game season and by gawd! let's get this awesome QB locked up.

"Look! LOOK! We got us a great QB too! We're juuuuust fine here in Houston!"

Reeks of P.R. move, to me. But hell, we were so high on our own fumes that we couldn't see it for that. Look back on it now, though.

You don't really believe that they just magically worked out a $24 million contract after one game, do you?

 

[76Texan]

Well obviously it wasn't written in 15 minutes. Everyone knows that. The problem is the Texans giving him the deal after one game, as if one good game was all they needed to see in order to give him the deal. His injury (and past injuries) be damned. Schaub is an elite QB after this one game. We don't need to see him string together a couple of performances first.

Would it make you feel better if they had waited for two games, three games, or four games. It would have been the same anyway.

If I remember correctly, the Texans don't talk contract during the season.
Seems perfectly clear to me that they were just wrapping things up there with Schaub's agent.

 

[playa465]

Well obviously it wasn't written in 15 minutes. Everyone knows that. The problem is the Texans giving him the deal after one game, as if one good game was all they needed to see in order to give him the deal. His injury (and past injuries) be damned. Schaub is an elite QB after this one game. We don't need to see him string together a couple of performances first.

I think he means that the contract workings had been going on a while prior to the game. The media put that idea out there that the Texans would probably wait til after the season possibly due to the injury. I'm sure Matt was identified as part of the core group the Texans wanted to build around so they got it done. He was compensated based on what he had proven to the organization and what they think he could do in the future. The fact that it took place after the first game means what? That the Texans wanted to see him post injury? I think they took care of that by only guaranteeing 2yrs of the contact and the signing bonus. I know he's been playing like poo, but let's see how he does in his first playoffs.

 

[dalemurphy]

I appreciate your opinion, so please don't be offended by some of my counter-arguments.
Coaches and players study film. They do it excessively, hours on end. To me a coach who can't see the writing on the wall after one game, maybe two at the most, is living in a state of denial I'd hate to witness, but I guess I am while watching these games. If this is indeed the case "Kubiak" failed the team and the fans.
I'm sure you know the definition of insanity, well Kubiak's coaching this year is a perfect example.
Sure, I can see why he'd try the same scheme maybe a game or two, but this is freaking ridiculous.
To me Kubiak's ability to lead a team Captained by a 3rd string QB as far as he did last year, and this monumental collapse this year "barring some incredible heroics these coming weeks" tells me he's digressed as a coach, not learned or moved forward.
Seriously, how stubborn do you have to be?
And, I'm a conservative for the most part, but Kubiak's giving that ideology a bad name lately.
Schaub, Schaub is decent when no pressure threatens his comfort zone. I was once comfortable saying that, but seeing him under-throw, or just plain miss wide open receivers lately has me questioning even his ability to do that.
He can't scramble, improvise, or just basically run at greater than a Sloth's pace.
I see this team going nowhere anytime soon with Schaub at the helm. Again, unless some unforeseen Schaub rears his head these coming weeks, he will have been outplayed by a 3rd string QB with zilch experience.
How can you over-analyze something so horribly wrong as this teams monumental collapse?

I would argue that the overanalysis would be that the team's struggles in December this year means that Kubiak and Schaub are overall failures. I disagree. Kubiak was very successful last year during this time of the year. You think he's regressed. I simply think a set of variables arrived that he struggled to respond to well this winter. Last year, he handled more difficult situations much better. Next year, I think it is likely this late season failure won't repeat.

 

[ObsiWan]

And Kubiak was pretty damn pissed after that one. Face red and was most likely cussing up a storm. I can only imagine what he was saying. Schaub set his feet and launched that. With the way he threw it, I felt that we were about to get a big reception for a TD. Instead, it was an INT.

I was wondering if I was the only one who saw that. And he was like that during the Vikings game too. He ain't happy with what he's been getting out of Schaub.

We know that Kubiak won't throw his guys under the bus in public and in the press but you have to know the post-game review between he and Schaub was ..."testy".

A lot of you have said he and Schaub are "joined at the hip"; and that is definitely true. But I'm beginning to wonder if some sort of separation surgery is on the horizon. Not this year obviously, but I will be watching the draft and free agency with great interest to see who, if anyone, gets brought in to challenge Schaub for his job in 2014. If the S.S. Schaub is sinking - meaning he continues to slump in this upcoming playoff game - I'd bet good money that Kubiak won't go down with that ship in the coming seasons.

 

[thunderkyss]

Would it make you feel better if they had waited for two games, three games, or four games. It would have been the same anyway.

I originally thought all this Schaub bashing was knee-jerk. But it continues today. Schaub's been having an excellent year, throwing for 4000 yards even though we led in most of our games.

The guy's not perfect. He's got flaws & we've talked about these flaws before. Last year, at this time, we were wishing we had a healthy Matt Schaub.

I know the "popular" opinion is to say he's not the same after his injury, but I'm not seeing it. He's the same guy he's always been & who he's always been was a guy that could get us deep into the play-offs.

He's not underthrowing guys because of his foot. After he underthrew Casey, he overthrew everyone else, including Andre, in the same game.

Some people are panicking, because they lost faith. I get that. However, I've never been a "Schaub guy" so I can say with complete honesty. If you ever thought Matt Schaub could get us to the Super Bowl..... nothing should have changed.

He underthrew Casey... he usually doesn't hit guys in stride. Big Whup. He never has, yet he usually finds a way to get his team into the red zone & they usually walk away with a TD.

He's lost some of his mojo. I don't know why. But I think these high character guys they built this team around, these professionals will find a way to get it done.

We're not going to be one & done & an AFC Championship game is the low bar.

 

[Mr teX]

I would argue that the overanalysis would be that the team's struggles in December this year means that Kubiak and Schaub are overall failures. I disagree. Kubiak was very successful last year during this time of the year. You think he's regressed. I simply think a set of variables arrived that he struggled to respond to well this winter. Last year, he handled more difficult situations much better. Next year, I think it is likely this late season failure won't repeat.

Don't count on it Dale...short of drastic changes in the way that he calls plays or talent, he doesn't seem to really adjust until it's too late. We've seen the same issues scheme wise since 2009 when the Cowboys and Giants came to town and thoroughly dominated us in much the same fashion we have been dominated in these last 4 games.

From game to game, he simply refuses to abandon the run or go away from it enough on a temporary basis when it's not working....until it's too late that is...By then, the defense knows that you need to pass to get back in the game & they either go into dime/nickel packages to make it more difficult for you to pass...or they pin their ears back & get after you. Sometimes, you have to step out of your comfort zone to break tendencies.....Kubiak does it, but he does it too late and we almost never come out on top b/c of it...This season more than any other has shown me this.

 

[ObsiWan]

I think we would like to pin Kubiak into a corner where being "aggressive" is the only answer. But I don't think he looks at it as being aggressive/conservative. He puts his best plays in the game & it's up to his players to execute.

It's like we hear in all those NFL films shots on the Patriots sidelines where Belichick is yelling at his players...
DO.
YOUR.
JOB!!

You know that every play has multiple receivers, usually there's a deep, intermediate, short/checkdown. If Matt is going to his check down, or continually checking to a run play, we look at that & call it "conservative" & blame Kubiak. When it may be a Matt Schaub "confidence" issue.

Kubiak didn't call a 4 yard dump off to Andre on 3rd & a mile.

Even the third & long draws... Kubiak straight up said that one in particular a play was called to get Casey wide open, but Schaub didn't like what he saw & checked to a run. He said he tried to get that play in 3 times, we only saw it once. The other two times, Schaub checked out.

So it's Schaub that's over conservative, more so than Kubiak. Makes one wonder, just how much leeway to change the play Schaub really DOES have but doesn't have the confidence to go all out and take the higher risk/higher reward option.

If this keeps up, a Kubiak/Schaub divorce could be in the future.

 

[thunderkyss]

So it's Schaub that's over conservative, more so than Kubiak. Makes one wonder, just how much leeway to change the play Schaub really DOES have but doesn't have the confidence to go all out and take the higher risk/higher reward option.

If this keeps up, a Kubiak/Schaub divorce could be in the future.

I think it's a matter of Matt being able to turn it on & off at will.

I think about a guy like Jake Plummer. That guy was a gunslinger & Kubiak/Shanahan had to put chains on him to real him in. But he could turn it on naturally, because that was truly his nature.

I think Schaub is 10x smarter (cautious) than Jake. But it isn't his personality to push. Jake would throw first then think about it. Matt thinks, then throws...... looks slower & I think that's what has hurt us more than anything.

He needs to learn to trust what he sees & stop thinking so much, but being he's a 10 year vet, it probably isn't going to happen.

But there isn't going to be a divorce of any kind. Kubiak is happy with what he's got. We've won a lot of games with Schaub.. including a game against New England, a game against GreenBay..... we didn't beat them this year & people are just over reacting.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

He's not underthrowing guys because of his foot. After he underthrew Casey, he overthrew everyone else, including Andre, in the same game.

Not so fast. Anyone who has ever played or coached QBs would tell you, not having a "healthy" back foot goes to overall ACCURACY...........BOTH as pertains to the tendency to underthrow AS WELL as to overthrow, due to the variability of the pressure/stress he is able or willing to apply to that back foot.

 

[thunderkyss]

Not so fast. Anyone who has ever played or coached QBs would tell you, not having a "healthy" back foot goes to overall ACCURACY...........BOTH as pertains to the tendency to underthrow AS WELL as to overthrow, due to the variability of the pressure/stress he is able or willing to apply to that back foot.

What I'm saying is that he's never been particularly accurate on his deep throws. I've been complaining about that well before his LisFranc.

Yes, people can point to a throw here or there to "demonstrate" his accuracy, & they are there, I'm not saying they aren't. But they are far & between.

'cak found an article one time (or referenced a radio show) where Matt admits he underthrows on purpose.

Matt looks good to me (health wise). As good as he ever has.

Whatever issue he is having, I don't think it's physical.

 

[steelbtexan]

I would argue that the overanalysis would be that the team's struggles in December this year means that Kubiak and Schaub are overall failures. I disagree. Kubiak was very successful last year during this time of the year. You think he's regressed. I simply think a set of variables arrived that he struggled to respond to well this winter. Last year, he handled more difficult situations much better. Next year, I think it is likely this late season failure won't repeat.

Gary is and has been playing it very conservative since the Rosencopter debacle. That one play ruined Gary as a HC.

That said, Gary has been playing the entire yr masking OL problems and Shaubs foot injury that doesn't allow Shaub to be the type of QB Gary would like to have. Unfortunately with a limited playbook defenses have caught on to how Gary has been covering for Schaub.

They've got to find a QB in this yrs draft and let him sit behind Schaub and learn next yr so that the new QB will be ready for the 2014 season. If you're of this mindset Then the Texans should use this yrs draft to shore up the offense and gain the young OL/WR's and QB experience. Then in the 2014 draft draft defense because rookie LB's/DL can come in and contribute more quickly. That is if you dont believe Shaub is the QB to win the Texans a SB.

BTW, with the injuries/holes on this team, I think Gary has done his best job of coaching this yr more than any other yr. To win 12 games with those players is simply amazing and believe me I'm no fan of Garys coaching ability.

 

[steelbtexan]

What I'm saying is that he's never been particularly accurate on his deep throws. I've been complaining about that well before his LisFranc.

Yes, people can point to a throw here or there to "demonstrate" his accuracy, & they are there, I'm not saying they aren't. But they are far & between.

'cak found an article one time (or referenced a radio show) where Matt admits he underthrows on purpose.

Matt looks good to me (health wise). As good as he ever has.

Whatever issue he is having, I don't think it's physical.

Look at the types of plays Gary has been calling, then if you go back and look at the plays Gary called during the 2009 sason. I think you will see the difference. Schaubs injury has tied Garys hands this season. IMHO

 

[thunderkyss]

Look at the types of plays Gary has been calling, then if you go back and look at the plays Gary called during the 2009 sason. I think you will see the difference. Schaubs injury has tied Garys hands this season. IMHO

He completed 66% of his passes for 275 yards while he looked like scht???

I'm good with that. His hands are tied....... whatever. He found Andre 12 times for 145 yards.

whoops....

 

[steelbtexan]

He completed 66% of his passes for 275 yards while he looked like scht???

I'm good with that. His hands are tied....... whatever. He found Andre 12 times for 145 yards.

whoops....

Great stats, but if you watched the game would you say Schaub looked Good/bad/terrible overall. Those stats lie.

 

[GP]

Great stats, but if you watched the game would you say Schaub looked Good/bad/terrible overall. Those stats lie.

Funny how he left off the two interceptions and all the sacks that killed about 4 drives (or more).

Yeah, but damn almighty! He got Andre that ball for hella' yards!

Some people get sentimental about this stuff, but it's either win or lose with players and teams in the NFL. You're either helping or you're hurting. And Schaub has been hurting this team, and his coach Gary Kubiak is a big reason for that, as well.

I'd say that Gary has even significantly retarded or stunted Schaubs growth. Schaub is wanting to please that guy so badly, and here Kubiak is...a coach who won't let Matt make pass play adjustments based on potential mismatches. Nope, run the pass play called or switch to a run ONLY.

How can you operate like that in today's NFL? It's so frustrating. I would understand if Matt was a rookie, but the guy is multiple years not only into the NFL itself but then multiple years into Gary's offense.

It's catching up with Gary Kubiak.

 

[Mr teX]

Look at the types of plays Gary has been calling, then if you go back and look at the plays Gary called during the 2009 sason. I think you will see the difference. Schaubs injury has tied Garys hands this season. IMHO

I don't think it's schaub's injury so much as it is him falling too in love with Arian and the running game and him knowing that they were most likely going to have a few OL issues with the whole right side of the line shipped off...Then you factor in he's now got a defense to rely on...Those things on their own are enough to curtail any aggressiveness.

i think the only thing he couldn't have anticipated was how much Tate's injury would hurt us as he seemed a little PO'ed about Tate's inability to get on the field earlier this year....and noone in the WR core outside of AJ really stepping up and taking over for Jacoby.

 

[thunderkyss]

Great stats, but if you watched the game would you say Schaub looked Good/bad/terrible overall. Those stats lie.

That's what I'm saying. He looked as good as he ever has. They're not lying here.

I started another thread here titled, "They don't know" the gist was that the Texans look like they are getting frustrated because they don't know what's wrong, otherwise they would have fixed it.

I've watched this game three times now & If I were the Texans, I would have thought everything was going our way. Sure we got down early. But we fought our way back into it & we took the lead playing Gary-ball.

They were probably feeling pretty good, that things were going the way they planned.

Then they lost the game.

I think things are trending up. We'll probably blow the Bengals out & most people will think it came out of nowhere. That the Texans flipped a switch. But it started in this game.

 

[thunderkyss]

Some people get sentimental about this stuff, but it's either win or lose with players and teams in the NFL. You're either helping or you're hurting. And Schaub has been hurting this team, and his coach Gary Kubiak is a big reason for that, as well.

If we're going there & the only thing that matters is the Ws & Ls..... we're 12-4. Schaub has helped this team more than he's hurt it.


I also addressed the 2 ints in another post.

& My post is about how Matt is playing in relation to his foot injury. He doesn't look slowed by it.

 

[76Texan]

The Int to AJ was just a mis-communication between receiver and QB.
AJ released to the outside but then cut back to the inside; by then the ball was already gone.

Of all the sacks, there might be one that you can put on Schaub.
He was sacked around the 3-sec mark when he tried to escape up the middle.
The end man who got around Newton caught up to him from behind and barely got to Schaub.

I would have liked for him to keep his feet chopping there in the pocket though; it would help him move quicker.