LZ: The offense is very much broken and Kubiak can’t rely on ‘the system’ he has to f

[klockWork]

Schaub int on that Casey play was a timing throw that was thrown a second too late. People is blaming Kubiak too much for his play calling when most pass execution on passing plays requires perfect timing. Schaub should've known his window have past on that route and needs to look elsewhere because a faster db was trailing Casey.

Schaub have been blasted by you guys for having a weak arm when that is totally false. Most of his under thrown passes that have occurred during his career have resulted from tardiness of his throw. The other factor is Schaub footwork in the pocket is atrocious. Other than rollout pa you never see Schaub step into a throw from a straight drop back pocket.

You watch a Manning or Brady highlights throwing the ball and compare that to Schaub. The disparity is disturbing.

I posted a bounty somewhere in this forum challenging anyone to post a video of Schaub stepping into a throw. The reward was 100 dollar thru PayPal. The closest someone got was a posted video of the Redskins game from two years ago when Schaub scramble up the pocket and threw a desperation pass on fourth down to AJ to win the game.

You have to go back over two years to find out the last time Schaub making a proper fundamental throw in the pocket. I'm utterly dumbfounded that this guy has had this many 4000 yard seasons.

 

[infantrycak]

Schaub have been blasted by you guys for having a weak arm when that is totally false. Most of his under thrown passes that have occurred during his career have resulted from tardiness of his throw.

Timing is certainly an issue at times.

The other factor is Schaub footwork in the pocket is atrocious. Other than rollout pa you never see Schaub step into a throw from a straight drop back pocket.

I posted a bounty somewhere in this forum challenging anyone to post a video of Schaub stepping into a throw. The reward was 100 dollar thru PayPal. The closest someone got was a posted video of the Redskins game from two years ago when Schaub scramble up the pocket and threw a desperation pass on fourth down to AJ to win the game.

You have to go back over two years to find out the last time Schaub making a proper fundamental throw in the pocket. I'm utterly dumbfounded that this guy has had this many 4000 yard seasons.

As I understood your bounty it was for scrambling inside the pocket and then making the throw. It wasn't having to go back two years to find it but that play was easy to remember.

You're exaggerating on never steps into his throws while in the pocket - there are several examples in this video.

And I wouldn't want your bounty even if you did admit there are examples.

Maybe if you are dumbfounded you should reconsider some of your observations. Schaub has been at a 250+ ypg pace every year except for his 1st here.

For the record, I am all for upgrading Schaub if the opportunity presents itself. I am not in desperation mode anything is better.

 

[Pantherstang84]

Timing is certainly an issue at times.



As I understood your bounty it was for scrambling inside the pocket and then making the throw. It wasn't having to go back two years to find it but that play was easy to remember.

You're exaggerating on never steps into his throws while in the pocket - there are several examples in this video.

And I wouldn't want your bounty even if you did admit there are examples.

Maybe if you are dumbfounded you should reconsider some of your observations. Schaub has been at a 250+ ypg pace every year except for his 1st here.

For the record, I am all for upgrading Schaub if the opportunity presents itself. I am not in desperation mode anything is better.

So your video link shows Schaub doing all the things he hasn't been doing lately. Hitting receivers in stride, throwing into double and triple coverage, moving in and stepping out of the,pocket to make plays. Which begs these questions.

Is the curtain starting to close on Matt Schaub's career? Have the injuries taken their toll? Is he still suffering ill effects from the Fat Albert injury?

One thing is apparent. The 2011 highlight video Matt Schaub looks far better than the 2012 Matt Schaub.

 

[Uncle Rico]

LZ isnt really going out on a limb with his 'analysis' is he?

anybody can see that (as my son puts it) "the fat guys on the right are no good", but Arian has also been misused by Kubiak. The flare pass is almost non-existent after a year when it was a lethal weapon for this offense. forcefeeding inside handoffs for the sake of some inivisible balance is a sign of a stubborn coach. Kubiak must adapt and improvise to what the strengths of this team currently are. Tunnel vision by Schaub on Dre is not going to get it done.

Its really a complete team implosion at this point, but i've seen this offense perform substantially better against greater competition and i just dont understand what the matter is, something internally? are the texans that predictable? didnt belichick say that wade's defense wasnt anything special, and our 'special' teams are anything but. saving grace is really this team cant play any worse, or can they?

 

[Runner]

Can't rely on the system and a limited qb. Schaubs better days behind him. Need three new starters on oline with no cap space? Man did the Texans peak last year? Do we fight off indi next year? Just rambling sorry

I thought when all those salary cap forced moves were made the Texans got worse. So yes, I think they peaked last year. Their record went up a bit, but with a weaker schedule and healthier team. It will be tough for the Texans to win the division next year.

 

[Mr teX]

LZ isnt really going out on a limb with his 'analysis' is he?

anybody can see that (as my son puts it) "the fat guys on the right are no good", but Arian has also been misused by Kubiak. The flare pass is almost non-existent after a year when it was a lethal weapon for this offense. forcefeeding inside handoffs for the sake of some inivisible balance is a sign of a stubborn coach. Kubiak must adapt and improvise to what the strengths of this team currently are. Tunnel vision by Schaub on Dre is not going to get it done.

Its really a complete team implosion at this point, but i've seen this offense perform substantially better against greater competition and i just dont understand what the matter is, something internally? are the texans that predictable? didnt belichick say that wade's defense wasnt anything special, and our 'special' teams are anything but. saving grace is really this team cant play any worse, or can they?

I just finished rewatching the colts game...the gameplan really is predictable and conservative as hell.

2nd/3rd and short we're running it 90% of the time

2nd/3rd and long we're passing 90% of the time

And AJ's not being force fed the ball....At least 1/2 the time its just only him and another WR out in a route...that's it....that makes for easy defending.

The other 1/2 of the time when they send 3 or more out they're 1 read quick hitters b/c schaubs only taking 3 step drops.

They almost never challenge deeper than 15 yards unless its off play-action or when they have to......which is usually when the score's getting a little out of hand and they're running out of time...by then the defense knows this.


Kubiak has got to open the playbook and become more aggressive

 

[Grungo_Taco]

I just finished rewatching the colts game...the gameplan really is predictable and conservative as hell.

2nd/3rd and short we're running it 90% of the time

2nd/3rd and long we're passing 90% of the time

And AJ's not being force fed the ball....At least 1/2 the time its just only him and another WR out in a route...that's it....that makes for easy defending.

The other 1/2 of the time when they send 3 or more out they're 1 read quick hitters b/c schaubs only taking 3 step drops.

They almost never challenge deeper than 15 yards unless its off play-action or when they have to......which is usually when the score's getting a little out of hand and they're running out of time...by then the defense knows this.


Kubiak has got to open the playbook and become more aggressive

Kubiak makes Ronald Reagen look Liberal. Conservatism is in Kube's bones.

 

[DocBar]

It pretty much falls on Kubes to make the offense work. Cinci has one helluva pass rush and a very good D.

It wouldn't hurt for Phillips' D to come up with a few turnovers and quit making OK, or bad, QB's look like superstars.

 

[dream_team]

I just finished rewatching the colts game...the gameplan really is predictable and conservative as hell.

2nd/3rd and short we're running it 90% of the time

2nd/3rd and long we're passing 90% of the time

You have to compare this to the rest of the NFL. I would say most teams are doing that.

And AJ's not being force fed the ball....At least 1/2 the time its just only him and another WR out in a route...that's it....that makes for easy defending.

Are you sure about that? That would mean we're keeping three extra guys back to help protect. I heard of max protect, but that's a bit much.

The other 1/2 of the time when they send 3 or more out they're 1 read quick hitters b/c schaubs only taking 3 step drops.

They almost never challenge deeper than 15 yards unless its off play-action or when they have to......which is usually when the score's getting a little out of hand and they're running out of time...by then the defense knows this.

You just pretty much explained a West Coast Offense.

 

[thunderkyss]

In 2011 Eric Winston was rated 10/76 overall against all Tackles and 6th against Right Tackles. Pass Block 10th, Run Bock 3rd.
In 2010 Eric Winston was rated 12/78 overall against all Tackles and 5th against Right Tackles. Pass Block 10th, Run Block 19th.

In 2011 Mike Brisiel was rated 32/78 overall against all Guards. Pass Block 32nd, Run Bock 14th.
In 2010 Mike Brisiel was rated 15/82 overall against all Guards. Pass Block 20th, Run Bock 12th.

Both had tougher years -- expected/bad teams -- in 2012. Winston was 25/80 Tackles and Brisiel was 74/82 Guards.

*ratings from ProFootballFocus, minumum 25% of team snaps.

How did Schaub rate amongst QBs during that time?

& keep in mind, I'm not saying that they weren't good, in fact, I said they had their strong points. It's only a matter of time, I think, before Newton & Jones are equally as good.

 

[thunderkyss]

What we are doing isnt working and you have to adapt. But Kubiak is just too damn stubborn or stupid.

eh.... again, there was a lot of good stuff happening Sunday. Andre, Matt, Arian, Kj, Jj.... all had pretty good days. We just need to find a way to make the score board reflect that.

 

[thunderkyss]

So your video link shows Schaub doing all the things he hasn't been doing lately. Hitting receivers in stride, throwing into double and triple coverage, moving in and stepping out of the,pocket to make plays. Which begs these questions.

Is the curtain starting to close on Matt Schaub's career? Have the injuries taken their toll? Is he still suffering ill effects from the Fat Albert injury?

One thing is apparent. The 2011 highlight video Matt Schaub looks far better than the 2012 Matt Schaub.

I don't know why Schaub is in such a slump. But I think his "demise" is a bit overstated. To me, there is nothing wrong with him physically. I think it's all mental. He's been having a great season, poor couple of games.

I think he's going to surprise many of us. His contract is going to look like a bargain.

 

[Rey]

You can make up for arm issues by getting the ball out sooner, but an underthrow is an underthrow. You didn't put it out far enough. You saw your receiver and your pass came up short.

All this timing stuff is just more excise making. Kind of like bringing up his freaking stats. He's not and never has been some borderline elite qb. He was and is John kitna in a better system. And btw, 4,000 yards is not some magical mark in today's NFL. Matt schaub is like 10th in passing yardage and everyone behind him had less attempts except bradford who barely had less.

 

[Mr teX]

You can make up for arm issues by getting the ball out sooner, but an underthrow is an underthrow. You didn't put it out far enough. You saw your receiver and your pass came up short.

All this timing stuff is just more excise making. Kind of like bringing up his freaking stats. He's not and never has been some borderline elite qb. He was and is John kitna in a better system. And btw, 4,000 yards is not some magical mark in today's NFL. Matt schaub is like 10th in passing yardage and everyone behind him had less attempts except bradford who barely had less.

it's not excuse making dude...nobody's saying that the int he threw sunday wasn't on him...

But you guys act like other qb's don't underthrow/otherthrow the ball. Just b/c you get to see every pass he underthrows, doesn't mean that all the other qb's aren't doing.......it happens.

 

[Craig.]

Just b/c you get to see every pass he underthrows, doesn't mean that all the other qb's aren't doing.......it happens.

Never seems to happen when they play us lol

 

[Hervoyel]

Sometimes the league just passes you by and it doesn't come with a big warning sign in neon lights. It happens when you start to be less and less effective doing things that used to form the core of your offense (or defense). Sure, there is definitely a talent shortage on the OL this year. QB play is poor after falling off from outstanding but in the end doesn't this offense, this system feel to you guys like it's just not working the way we all expected? Even the way it did a few years ago?

Think of how long we've been running this exact same offense. Granted we've got some rookies over there on the right side of the line but Foster's getting hit 3 yards in the backfield on the left side too. Guys who have been playing in this system for years and who were hand picked to run it are having trouble making it work against good defenses. Sure the scrubs are still getting rolled up with it but the teams we will be facing in the postseason aren't in the least bit baffled by what we're doing.

I think the problem our offense poses to defenses has been solved and we will begin seeing declining results that vary as our schedules difficulty varies. Chuck Noll didn't know when the game had passed him by and neither did Tom Landry. Shanahan in Washington seems to have been more than willing to change his offense to incorporate what RGIII had been doing and lets be honest, it's not like he was accomplishing much the last few years in Denver or the first few in Washington.

It's time to reinvent the wheel or it will be soon.

 

[thunderkyss]

I think the problem our offense poses to defenses has been solved and we will begin seeing declining results that vary as our schedules difficulty varies.

It's time to reinvent the wheel or it will be soon.

FYI, Andre had 12 catches for 141 yards. Arian had 96 yards on 16 carries. Schaub was 24/36 for 275 yards (66% @ 7.6 ypc)

I don't think defenses have the problem solved yet. We're going to blow some minds through the play-offs.

 

[GP]

I think the future of the NFL is in small, mobile QBs who have big fast WRs.

Russell Wilson and the Seahawks is the prime example.

Pete Carroll might have just become the next Bill Belichick in terms of finally learning what it takes to win in the NFL. Bill struggled multiple times before landing in N.E. and then stumbling upon Tom Brady...and even then, he had not employed the spread offense that eventually Tom Brady led into great success.

Pete should have started Matt Flynn, based on the standard "rules" of what happens when you pay a Qb a starter's salary. Pete, though, decided to go with a gut instinct. And I think the Seahawks might just play in the SB because of it.

They're legitimately dangerous now.

You have to go on gut instincts, and Kubiak and Smith just can't do that. It's still very old school to them. Loyalty and methodical plodding is the order of the day. Kubiak would never go for a fake punt when he's up on a team by 3 or 4 scores...Pete has learned what Bill learned: Eff 'em.

We're nice, as if we're to believe that the football gods prefer gentlemen and scholars. Look what it gets us.

 

[Mr teX]

Sometimes the league just passes you by and it doesn't come with a big warning sign in neon lights. It happens when you start to be less and less effective doing things that used to form the core of your offense (or defense). Sure, there is definitely a talent shortage on the OL this year. QB play is poor after falling off from outstanding but in the end doesn't this offense, this system feel to you guys like it's just not working the way we all expected? Even the way it did a few years ago?

Think of how long we've been running this exact same offense. Granted we've got some rookies over there on the right side of the line but Foster's getting hit 3 yards in the backfield on the left side too. Guys who have been playing in this system for years and who were hand picked to run it are having trouble making it work against good defenses. Sure the scrubs are still getting rolled up with it but the teams we will be facing in the postseason aren't in the least bit baffled by what we're doing.

I think the problem our offense poses to defenses has been solved and we will begin seeing declining results that vary as our schedules difficulty varies. Chuck Noll didn't know when the game had passed him by and neither did Tom Landry. Shanahan in Washington seems to have been more than willing to change his offense to incorporate what RGIII had been doing and lets be honest, it's not like he was accomplishing much the last few years in Denver or the first few in Washington.

It's time to reinvent the wheel or it will be soon.

For this particular season, i think this is the thing that needs to happen more than anything..He just needs to change his philosophy...drop back and sling it...let the chips fall where they may.

 

[GuerillaBlack]

I think the future of the NFL is in small, mobile QBs who have big fast WRs.

Russell Wilson and the Seahawks is the prime example.

Pete Carroll might have just become the next Bill Belichick in terms of finally learning what it takes to win in the NFL. Bill struggled multiple times before landing in N.E. and then stumbling upon Tom Brady...and even then, he had not employed the spread offense that eventually Tom Brady led into great success.

Pete should have started Matt Flynn, based on the standard "rules" of what happens when you pay a Qb a starter's salary. Pete, though, decided to go with a gut instinct. And I think the Seahawks might just play in the SB because of it.

They're legitimately dangerous now.

You have to go on gut instincts, and Kubiak and Smith just can't do that. It's still very old school to them. Loyalty and methodical plodding is the order of the day.

I don't know about small, mobile QBs being the future of the NFL. Just mobile/more athletic QBs. The days of statues are pretty much done. A QB needs to be able to move around, evade tacklers, scramble a few yards for a first down and maybe more, throw on the run, etc. Harbaugh also went with his gut in picking Kaepernick over Alex Smith. He saw his team becoming stagnant with Smith, and realized that putting in Kaepernick would open up the playbook more and allow for more big plays.

 

[Corrosion]

To fix this offense , the passing game has to get verticle .... all this horozontal sh!t .... is going backwards. Problem is , the QB doesnt have the arm to get verticle.


Where's VY ?! (no , not really , that was a joke)

 

[Hervoyel]

FYI, Andre had 12 catches for 141 yards. Arian had 96 yards on 16 carries. Schaub was 24/36 for 275 yards (66% @ 7.6 ypc)

I don't think defenses have the problem solved yet. We're going to blow some minds through the play-offs.

Sure they do. You ever heard the expression "_____________ is gonna get his, you just can't let him beat you".

Well, good defenses know how to make that happen against the Houston Texans. They have for a couple of years.

You're rattling off a bunch of statistics that all together amount to nothing but an "L". All day long the Colts were in control despite this wealth of statistics.

 

[thunderkyss]

You're rattling off a bunch of statistics that all together amount to nothing but an "L". All day long the Colts were in control despite this wealth of statistics.

It means they're getting their scht together & are going to blow the doors off the play-offs.

Indy didn't stop us. We did.

 

[GuerillaBlack]

It means they're getting their scht together & are going to blow the doors off the play-offs.

Indy didn't stop us. We did.

So, they give away the number one seed in the playoffs in order to "get their **** together"? That doesn't make much sense.

 

[steelbtexan]

It means they're getting their scht together & are going to blow the doors off the play-offs.

Indy didn't stop us. We did.

What game were you watching? The Texans were soundly beaten in all three phases of the game. To think otherwise is, well delusional. IMHO

 

[deucetx]

What game were you watching? The Texans were soundly beaten in all three phases of the game. To think otherwise is, well delusional. IMHO

I believe what he is meaning is it wasn't the Colts that dominated us but mental lapses. The touchdown on the deep seam pattern was a mental lapse by the safety. Not a mano y mano situation. The touchdown on the kickoff return where the guy wasn't even touched because folks didn't maintain their lanes is another mental lapse. On top of this you got the silly penalties as well.

So basically 14 points right there where guys forgot about the mental part of their job. They weren't beat, they beat themselves. It was nothing clever or that took amazing effort on the Colts part. Just took bonehead moments.

In the end, it matters little. Colts won and deserved it since they played like they wanted to win where the Texans looked to be going through the motions as if they 'expected' to win instead of fighting for it.

 

[Rey]

it's not excuse making dude...nobody's saying that the int he threw sunday wasn't on him...

But you guys act like other qb's don't underthrow/otherthrow the ball. Just b/c you get to see every pass he underthrows, doesn't mean that all the other qb's aren't doing.......it happens.

All QB's don't underthrow WRs like Schaub. He underthrows more than he overthrows or puts the ball where the WR can catch it in stride. I've watched plenty of football and good QB's aren't consistently underthrowing WR's.... More excuse making...par for the course.

 

[GP]

I don't know about small, mobile QBs being the future of the NFL. Just mobile/more athletic QBs. The days of statues are pretty much done. A QB needs to be able to move around, evade tacklers, scramble a few yards for a first down and maybe more, throw on the run, etc. Harbaugh also went with his gut in picking Kaepernick over Alex Smith. He saw his team becoming stagnant with Smith, and realized that putting in Kaepernick would open up the playbook more and allow for more big plays.

Drew Brees is small, he's done OK.

The bigger guys tend to get hit harder, IMO. I think guys like Brees and Wilson will play longer than guys like Cam and RGIII because of height issues. The smaller guys tend to find ways to avoid the hits when running, and the taller guys tend to not protect themselves as much.

Goodell, for better or for worse, is basically making the NFL into the Arena League but with the pageantry of the NFL. Sling the ball all day long.

 

[Hervoyel]

It means they're getting their scht together & are going to blow the doors off the play-offs.

Indy didn't stop us. We did.

No, sorry. Indy stopped us. It's a nice take on things and I wish I could share it with you but Indy played hard, flew to the ball, and blasted through our line most of the day.

 

[Mr teX]

To fix this offense , the passing game has to get verticle .... all this horozontal sh!t .... is going backwards. Problem is , the QB doesnt have the arm to get verticle.


Where's VY ?! (no , not really , that was a joke)

His arm strength isn't really the issue imo... he's got enough to get it where it needs to be. There were and have been more than a few throws that he made in the colts game and in all of these games that you wouldn't think he could make if his arm strength was the chief issue.

It's his footwork that's the main issue imo. When you're throwing a ball of any kind, that front foot/toe should always be pointed directly at your target..or where you're throwing. with both his ints, his foot placement was off. If you watch guys like Brady and Manning, they're front foot/toe is always pointed straight forward to their target. Another thing he also tends to do is overstride when he throws deep. Mark Sanchez has this issue...Donovan Mcnabb had this issue too.

In any event, Both of these things effect accuracy and can also affect how much "umf" you can get on the ball...

his 1st int, it looks to me he overstrided a little..& looking at the replay of it..i don't think his foot was placed where it should've been either..it wasn't pointed forward to his target that's for sure.

His 2nd int, while he didn't overstride, his front foot just kinda goes off to the side when he's moving forward on the balance-weight transfer..

 

[Mr teX]

All QB's don't underthrow WRs like Schaub. He underthrows more than he overthrows or puts the ball where the WR can catch it in stride. I've watched plenty of football and good QB's aren't consistently underthrowing WR's.... More excuse making...par for the course.

Lol, he underthrew a whole 2 passes this sunday...yeah most qb's aren't consistently doing that...overstate the guys flaws, minimize what he does well..par for the course indeed.

 

[GP]

His arm strength isn't really the issue imo... he's got enough to get it where it needs to be. There were and have been more than a few throws that he made in the colts game and in all of these games that you wouldn't think he could make if his arm strength was the chief issue.

It's his footwork that's the main issue imo. When you're throwing a ball of any kind, that front foot/toe should always be pointed directly at your target..or where you're throwing. with both his ints, his foot placement was off. If you watch guys like Brady and Manning, they're front foot/toe is always pointed straight forward to their target. Another thing he also tends to do is overstride when he throws deep. Mark Sanchez has this issue...Donovan Mcnabb had this issue too.

In any event, Both of these things effect accuracy and can also affect how much "umf" you can get on the ball...

his 1st int, it looks to me he overstrided a little..& looking at the replay of it..i don't think his foot was placed where it should've been either..it wasn't pointed forward to his target that's for sure.

His 2nd int, while he didn't overstride, his front foot just kinda goes off to the side when he's moving forward on the balance-weight transfer..

Where have you been?

The guy has been under throwing long passes since Day 1. DAY ONE.

Long before his injury from Albert Haynesworth, I might add.

He doesn't have the feel for the deep pass. It's always on target (never wide right or wide left), don't get me wrong, but the length of those passes is more often short than anything. Or he has that rare throw that is too far beyond the WR. Rarely has Schaub hit a player in stride. Most of the time, his receivers are slowing down for it.

When Kevin Walter is having to slow down for a deep pass, that's REALLY bad news. Slow WRs having to slow down on deep passes is a very bad thing.

There seems to be a range where Schaub is just unable to gauge how much mustard to put on the pass. He hits those post patterns to OD just fine. Anything with extreme loft under it, and it's like a damn moon shot.

 

[Double Barrel]

All QB's don't underthrow WRs like Schaub. He underthrows more than he overthrows or puts the ball where the WR can catch it in stride. I've watched plenty of football and good QB's aren't consistently underthrowing WR's.... More excuse making...par for the course.

That first INT last game really highlights some serious issues with Schaub. He rolled out, felt absolutely NO pressure, had plenty of time, and under-threw the ball for an easy INT.

There is no excuse for a starting NFL QB to not make that throw to a receiver in stride. It should have been a huge gain, even a TD, but instead, it was a clear example that Schaub either made a horrible decision and/or cannot consistently make long throws in stride. Either way, it's a bad sign.

 

[steelbtexan]

His arm strength isn't really the issue imo... he's got enough to get it where it needs to be. There were and have been more than a few throws that he made in the colts game and in all of these games that you wouldn't think he could make if his arm strength was the chief issue.

It's his footwork that's the main issue imo. When you're throwing a ball of any kind, that front foot/toe should always be pointed directly at your target..or where you're throwing. with both his ints, his foot placement was off. If you watch guys like Brady and Manning, they're front foot/toe is always pointed straight forward to their target. Another thing he also tends to do is overstride when he throws deep. Mark Sanchez has this issue...Donovan Mcnabb had this issue too.

In any event, Both of these things effect accuracy and can also affect how much "umf" you can get on the ball...

his 1st int, it looks to me he overstrided a little..& looking at the replay of it..i don't think his foot was placed where it should've been either..it wasn't pointed forward to his target that's for sure.

His 2nd int, while he didn't overstride, his front foot just kinda goes off to the side when he's moving forward on the balance-weight transfer..

The foot injury is what's causing his inaccuracy problems. Along with his inability to avoid the rush. Schaub never has been accurate on deep passes.

 

[Mr teX]

Where have you been?

The guy has been under throwing long passes since Day 1. DAY ONE.

Long before his injury from Albert Haynesworth, I might add.

He doesn't have the feel for the deep pass. It's always on target (never wide right or wide left), don't get me wrong, but the length of those passes is more often short than anything. Or he has that rare throw that is too far beyond the WR. Rarely has Schaub hit a player in stride. Most of the time, his receivers are slowing down for it.

When Kevin Walter is having to slow down for a deep pass, that's REALLY bad news. Slow WRs having to slow down on deep passes is a very bad thing.

There seems to be a range where Schaub is just unable to gauge how much mustard to put on the pass. He hits those post patterns to OD just fine. Anything with extreme loft under it, and it's like a damn moon shot.

i'm not disputing that..what i'm saying is that his arm strength probably hasn't been the chief cause of these underthrows/overthrows/accuracy issues b/c he's making those same types of throws and other types of throws that make it there just fine... in the same game nonetheless...

The missed TD pass to AJ was about the same length as the 43 yd pass he underthrew to Casey that was intercepted....So was his 2nd int.. 1 was an overthrow, 1 was an underthrow, the other was right on target...

So you have to ask yourself why can't he be consistent with his deep throws? Footwork and throwing mechanics...

that's all im saying.

 

[GuerillaBlack]

That first INT last game really highlights some serious issues with Schaub. He rolled out, felt absolutely NO pressure, had plenty of time, and under-threw the ball for an easy INT.

There is no excuse for a starting NFL QB to not make that throw to a receiver in stride. It should have been a huge gain, even a TD, but instead, it was a clear example that Schaub either made a horrible decision and/or cannot consistently make long throws in stride. Either way, it's a bad sign.

And Kubiak was pretty damn pissed after that one. Face red and was most likely cussing up a storm. I can only imagine what he was saying. Schaub set his feet and launched that. With the way he threw it, I felt that we were about to get a big reception for a TD. Instead, it was an INT.

 

[GP]

i'm not disputing that..what i'm saying is that his arm strength probably hasn't been the chief cause of these underthrows/overthrows/accuracy issues b/c he's making those same types of throws and other types of throws that make it there just fine... in the same game nonetheless...

The missed TD pass to AJ was about the same length as the 43 yd pass he underthrew to Casey that was intercepted....So was his 2nd int.. 1 was an overthrow, 1 was an underthrow, the other was right on target...

So you have to ask yourself why can't he be consistent with his deep throws? Footwork and throwing mechanics...

that's all im saying.

Which begs the question: Why did the front office feel the need to give Matt a new deal only ONE GAME into the 2012 season?

This franchise is goo-goo ga-ga for their QBs. They gave Carr an unbelievable $8 million if for no other reason than to be a nice parting gift on his way out of here. I firmly believe that Bob McNair is trying to run an NFL franchise in ways that are not fiscally sound as it relates to how we damn sure know that normal businesses are operated.

Not at any time would a Bob McNair overpay such an underperforming person in a normal business setting. It almost makes one wonder if he's getting a damn tax write-off for having paid Carr that money. Am I right?

So here we are, AGAIN, watching him do the same thing: Watching him tie the salary cap noose tighter around our team's neck by giving Schaub a new deal so quickly. What a bad, bad mistake. Terrible. Sure, at the time he looked phenomenal and it might have made sense. But geez, it's just 1 game into a 16-game season. And then the post-season awaits too. Why do that? I don't get it.

Bob goes out, gets a proven d-coord for his HC...drafts a whale of a player in JJ Watt...trims the fat by cutting Winston, letting Dreessen and Brisiel walk (bigger paydays elsewhere), re-signs his LT and his RB and his C. And then promptly goes and re-signs an unproven QB who is now tanking hard. HARD.

The Kubiak deal and the Schaub deal are the dual threat to this franchise. Bob still hasn't grown a solid pair of NFL Owner Testicles yet. He let 2011 go to his head, excuse me...no, he let it go to his HEART. And now we're screwed for the next 2 or possibly even 3 years.

It's maddening. The heart will betray you. It doesn't think or compute, and Bob's heart has betrayed him. Again. And we get to feel the residual impact of it. Does he even know this? Does he bother reconciling the books on this issue? I doubt it. It's status quo with those guys. Everything is fine. Nobody is in the paper today for a bad crime. We're in the playoffs! Good guys always end up on top. Blah blah blah.

 

[Double Barrel]

And Kubiak was pretty damn pissed after that one. Face red and was most likely cussing up a storm. I can only imagine what he was saying. Schaub set his feet and launched that. With the way he threw it, I felt that we were about to get a big reception for a TD. Instead, it was an INT.

yeah, Kubiak looked pissed and disgusted.

I've seen the replay at least a dozen times, and I just don't get it. Overthrow the receiver, but to have all that time and under-throw when a defender is trailing is just a plain stupid decision in a clutch situation.

That play has absolutely nothing to do with Kubiak (it was a good call) and everything to do with Schaub and his failure to execute the play.

What is really depressing is the continuous highlights of other QBs last weekend hitting guys in stride for scores.

 

[thunderkyss]

I believe what he is meaning is it wasn't the Colts that dominated us but mental lapses. The touchdown on the deep seam pattern was a mental lapse by the safety. Not a mano y mano situation. The touchdown on the kickoff return where the guy wasn't even touched because folks didn't maintain their lanes is another mental lapse. On top of this you got the silly penalties as well.

So basically 14 points right there where guys forgot about the mental part of their job. They weren't beat, they beat themselves. It was nothing clever or that took amazing effort on the Colts part. Just took bonehead moments.

Not to mention the two bad throws by Schaub that went to the other team. One was "definitely" a touchdown..... that's another 7 points.

In the end, it matters little. Colts won and deserved it since they played like they wanted to win where the Texans looked to be going through the motions as if they 'expected' to win instead of fighting for it.

Absolutely & I don't mean to take anything away from the Colts, or Luck. That kid, for the first time, impressed the Fk out of me. Think about it, all the things we tried to do that didn't work, worked for them. The bubble screen to Andre that went for a -3 yards, Luck & Hilton busted a 15 yard play on the same thing. We tried to catch them with a quick snap to pick up a first down.... didn't set long enough, still didn't get the first down. Luck picked up the first down on one play & punked us getting off the field on another. His inflections on his snap count. 3 or more offsides.

But to win at this level, you've got to capitalize on the mistakes of the other team..... they did that. You also have to minimize the mistakes of your own team. They did that as well. They won the game. If we'd have cleaned up our own mistakes, we'd have made it more difficult for them but as it stands, they won it.

 

[thunderkyss]

I've seen the replay at least a dozen times, and I just don't get it. Overthrow the receiver, but to have all that time and under-throw when a defender is trailing..

Doesn't really matter, but Davis wasn't trailing Casey. Casey was being covered by a LB. He lost him somewhere in the middle of the field. That corner came off his man & had time to cut under Casey to pick that ball.

In other words, not only did he underthrow it, but he put way to much air under it... or threw it way to late. Had he thrown it earlier, or with less air under it, it would have been a different story. That was a bad throw for many reasons.

 

[Uncle Rico]

Shaub puts too much air/arc on his deep passes.

 

[Rey]

Shaub puts too much air/arc on his deep passes.

He does that because he doesn't have the arm to take the air off of his passes.

When you can put velocity on the ball you don't have to put as much air under the ball. It gets to the target faster and it's usually more accurate of a pass...

The weaker your arm the more air you have to put under the ball.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

His arm strength isn't really the issue imo... he's got enough to get it where it needs to be. There were and have been more than a few throws that he made in the colts game and in all of these games that you wouldn't think he could make if his arm strength was the chief issue.

It's his footwork that's the main issue imo. When you're throwing a ball of any kind, that front foot/toe should always be pointed directly at your target..or where you're throwing. with both his ints, his foot placement was off. If you watch guys like Brady and Manning, they're front foot/toe is always pointed straight forward to their target. Another thing he also tends to do is overstride when he throws deep. Mark Sanchez has this issue...Donovan Mcnabb had this issue too.

In any event, Both of these things effect accuracy and can also affect how much "umf" you can get on the ball...

his 1st int, it looks to me he overstrided a little..& looking at the replay of it..i don't think his foot was placed where it should've been either..it wasn't pointed forward to his target that's for sure.

His 2nd int, while he didn't overstride, his front foot just kinda goes off to the side when he's moving forward on the balance-weight transfer..

The strength of a QB's throw is primarily dependent on strength of chest muscles (mostly pec) AND strength of leg muscles transferred to the plant foot. That "repaired" back foot is what a QB relies on for that "umf" you speak of. Whether because of any residual instability of repair following the removal of his hardware, or stretching of the healed ligaments as the season has progressed, or simply from pain or tenderness (very common chronic progressive problem following repair of Lisfranc with fracture, just ask Marcus), any one of these will significantly affect velocity, distance and accuracy. All of these will be a major factor in maintaining "balance." If you are trying to compensate for any of the things I mentioned, you will try to avoid placing stress on the affected areas. This easily compromises the consistency of all aspects of a QB's passing game. When you lose the ability to fully balance in motion using your back foot as main support, you are forced to regain some of that balance with the increased use of that front foot rather than solely allowing it to work for aiming balance. This can easily account for the awkward final positions of his front foot, something I've coincidentally also discussed with several MB members in the past.

Schaub no doubt is wearing a nonyielding full-length orthotic shoe insert or sole to avoid undue stresses on the ball of his foot that would transmit those stresses to the Lisfranc area.......in other words, trying to avoid recreating the forces that led to the injury in the first place.

The fact that this orthotic does not allow the free bending of the ball of the foot joint area, should make it clear that "push off" with his plant foot would require in itself some adjustment to mechanics.

To make it more simple to understand. Fashion a plank of plywood. Stick it in your sneakers. Put a pair of socks on...............but before that, put a small pebble in it near the back end of your instep (arch) to replicate some "discomfort." Feel free to use a larger rock for greater "discomfort." Then tie your laces up tightly. Now go out there, run around, and try passing the football around. You may find that things don't work out too well for you.........and less and less as you are out there longer and longer.

 

[Rey]

Lol, he underthrew a whole 2 passes this sunday...yeah most qb's aren't consistently doing that...overstate the guys flaws, minimize what he does well..par for the course indeed.

You sound ridiculous.

He underthrew two long balls. How many of those do you think you get a game? How many deep passes like that did he even have? What the hell are you talking about?

And stop acting like this is a one game problem. How long have you been watching the Texans?

Acting like Schaub has all of a sudden started underthrowing deep balls is silly.

 

[Vinny]

You sound ridiculous.

He underthrew two long balls. How many deep passes like that did he even have? What the hell are you talking about?

And stop acting like this is a one game problem. How long have you been watching the Texans?

Acting like Schaub has all of a sudden started underthrowing deep balls is silly.

The one thing AJ has not done at a HOF level is catch TD passes. Some of that is because he isn't a great natural runner but I think most of it has to do with Schaub's inability to hit him in stride when he is wide open. I think he has missed out on at least 6 more TD's per year just due to this.

 

[Hervoyel]

The one thing AJ has not done at a HOF level is catch TD passes. Some of that is because he isn't a great natural runner but I think most of it has to do with Schaub's inability to hit him in stride when he is wide open. I think he has missed out on at least 6 more TD's per year just due to this.

With Carr it was a question of whether or not he'd already been sacked by the time AJ got open and then later a question of whether David was even looking by the time AJ got open.

With Schaub it's been a pretty steady series of passes where Dre hade to wait for the ball and sometimes play cornerback on short notice to break up a pick.

 

[Vinny]

With Carr it was a question of whether or not he'd already been sacked by the time AJ got open and then later a question of whether David was even looking by the time AJ got open.

With Schaub it's been a pretty steady series of passes where Dre hade to wait for the ball and sometimes play cornerback on short notice to break up a pick.

without Johnson's jump ball skills this offense would be an ugly duckling

 

[Mr teX]

You sound ridiculous.

He underthrew two long balls. How many of those do you think you get a game? How many deep passes like that did he even have? What the hell are you talking about?

And stop acting like this is a one game problem. How long have you been watching the Texans?

Acting like Schaub has all of a sudden started underthrowing deep balls is silly.

WTF are you talking about? He threw 5 long balls the entire game. & unless there's a play that i'm forgetting about, only 1 of them was underthrown.

1 was underthrown to Casey
1 was thrown perfectly to AJ in the end zone that he dropped
1 was overthrown to AJ in the end zone - int
1 was overthrown to Jean on the sideline- barely

the was another thrown deep but it was a pass interference on Davis

That's 1 damn clearly underthrown long pass of 5 on sunday.

& for the record, i never said any damn thing about it being a 1 game thing..He underthrows passes all the time...but so does every qb in the league...Just b/c the WR makes a play on it and comes down with it doesn't mean that they didn't have to slow down for it and adjust...or turn around to catch it doesn't mean it wasn't underthrown.

Someone listening to you would believe every single pass this dude threw was underthrown.

I sound ridiculous? you sound ridiculous...but i get it, that kinda stuff doesn't fit into your nice neat box...

 

[thunderkyss]

Acting like Schaub has all of a sudden started underthrowing deep balls is silly.

It's been a topic on this board so much that someone found a quote where he says he does that on purpose, giving "his guys" an opportunity to make a play on the ball.

I thought that was the funniest thing I had ever heard, however, someone brought stats showing Matt completes those deep balls more frequently than your "elite" guys.

I still find it laughable, but if those numbers were true (& if I get time, I'll look for it).... maybe he has a point.

I think he has missed out on at least 6 more TD's per year just due to this.

Yeah, I"ve mentioned that before as well. I think you're being cautious with that 6 number though.

without Johnson's jump ball skills this offense would be an ugly duckling

I'd love to join the dump on Schaub/Kubiak thing that's going on right now, but.... we're talking about James Casey being WTF open. Think about that for a minute. We've also seen KDub WTF open as well.... last year, it was Dressen.

None of those guys are barn burners, or precision route runners, yet they get wide open. Matt generally doesn't throw that ball, unless his guy is wide open.

His ball placement, when the guy isn't wide open is so bad, that the defender regularly has a better play on the ball than our guy, so he normally knows to wait until he's got someone wide open.


Just saying.

 

[Vinny]

The Mayan's said that I'd agree with Fiddler right around this time...amazing.