Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍

Mario movement rumors (MERGED) Signs with Buffalo $100 million

cbs1507 said:
But he only got $26 million guaranteed. Since some people claim he has not performed well and is "injury prone" then he could not have gotten much more than that.
Click to expand...
He was guaranteed the 26m but made all salary based $. There were I believe some small annual incentive bonus that he may not have earned but my info is less than $2M each year earned or not.
 
welsh texan said:
I have no way of backing this up, but I definitely remember the year Mario got snubbed from the Pro-bowl there was talk that he'd missed out on a big bonus because of it, the following year he went and presumably got the bonus.

I'd be surprised if Mario saw all of that money, he had some statistically sparse seasons when the talent around him was poor and he couldn't do it all alone.

We'll maybe find out what kind of person Mario is by the end of all this. I mean, no matter what contract he signs he's going to be set up for life, and its hard to think of a better positioned team than ours to give him a ring in the near future who's actually likely to sign him to more money.

Of course the joker in the pack could be that we don't really know how much Mario likes playing OLB, he makes all the right sounds about it, and it seems like he'd see that Wade is allowing him to be in a position to succeed, but how much of that is just professionalism and whether he really is happy doing it will play a big part in negotiations as well. Oh yeh, and the fact that Antonio Smith's contract only has one or two years to run and Mario could see a point in the future where he's asked to move full time to 3-4 DE may also be an issue. He certainly wasn't happy at that prospect this time last year.
Click to expand...
Every pro bowl player of course gets a check for that and many have clauses built in paying "incentive" bonuses as I said. We have no source that breaks contracts down.
I think Williams bought into Wade's D especially with Phillips saying he would create the plays to utilize Mario. If the money is reasonable Mario will sign imo; just not sure when. I am mocking Derek Wolfe now to replace Smith eventually. Watt & Mario will stay where they are. Mario averaging 1 sack per game in first 5 games showed Mario how he can succeed.
 
dalemurphy said:
That's a different issue. We're getting into what is being reported when a contract gets signed. Usually, I think, the number reported is based on salary and bonus and sometimes easily hit incentives. But, one can never know for sure.

My example was stressing simplicity. Clearly, Mario earned "essentially" all of his reported $54 million over the past six years... and, the only way he wouldn't have earned almost all of it would have been if he was released or retired.
Click to expand...
DM you are correct.
 
Norg said:
Man right now im feeling like i wanna keep mario. Lets get rid of someone else

Demco cody antonio. Somebody

I would really like for mario to play DE.

Watt,mitchell/new nt,mario
Click to expand...


It doesn't work that way. The cap hit for releasing Demeco would be enormous. The cap hit for dumping Antonio would negate any savings you would make from not paying his salary. So, you'd be in the same position but not have Antonio. Cody's contract is small.
 
thunderkyss said:
But we don't know what this team looks like without Mario. We know how stacked the team looks with Mario. He goes down & our defense is still able to perform..... "next man up" looks like a phenom, but it's the result of consistently adding talent to the team. TK we do know what team looks like without mario, since 6th game.

Imagine we had no Mario Williams & we lost Connor Barwin, Jj Watt, or Antonio Smith. Would our defense have survived with Jesse Nading, Brahman, or Jamison taking major snaps in 2011? You can no more say what would happen if A,B or C player got hurt than what a draft pick would do. Having said that we do know thatr those players did play and we know the results.

I seriously doubt it.



Any scenario that involves losing Mario Williams means we need to find another edge rusher. Wade Phillips went into the season with three, Mario, Barwin, Reed. Agreed and I have two in mind



& behind Reed, we have Nading & Brahman. Replacing an edge rusher like Mario is not going to be easy. It took us long enough to get him & long enough to get the help he needs. We have already replaced Mario with Barwin. If Mario returns & I think he will, best player starts.


Barwin got 11.5 sacks with 4 other players getting 5 or more sacks, Mario has never had that kind of "help" yet has delivered similar production (even working through injury). 11.5/44=26% of the teams sacks.

Mario had 12 sacks in 2008, the Texans had 25. 12/50=50% of the teams sacks.

In 2010, the Texans had 18 sacks. Mario had 8.5 sacks. 8.5/18=47% Again, you are arguing how good Mario is. I'm not disputing his worth but hoping another team will compensate us for him

It's not apples to apples, & Barwin did not "replace" Mario. It is more than likely had Mario stayed healthy he would have had 20 sacks...... much closer to 50%
Click to expand...
I can not understand this comment as Barwin did replace Mario for 2011. For the future no one knows. Mario did not remain healthy and he did not get 20sacks.
 
badboy said:
He was guaranteed the 26m but made all salary based $. There were I believe some small annual incentive bonus that he may not have earned but my info is less than $2M each year earned or not.
Click to expand...
badboy said:
DM you are correct.
Click to expand...

But you cannot say that for certain. Even the guy you quoted to admitted that and you agreed.

Here is a source (one you've used for speculation before) that says he did not get the full $54 million.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/mario-williams/

...I counted $31.4 million. So he earned $4.9 million in incentives (on top of the $26.5 million guaranteed) if this source is correct.
 
ThaShark316 said:
Two things:

1. We don't have cap space for free agents, man..unless I'm losing my mind.

2. Bowe's going to take #2 WR money? He's going to want what Rice got from Seattle last year.
Click to expand...
1. Not going into the cap space agin as I and others haver posted on this repeatedly & the post you qouted identified gaining cap space with Mario signing a lower cap contract and also total 201 cap space if he goes elsewhere. Maybe you are losing your mind? chuckle.

2. Offer Bowe an Andre Johnson type deal with numbers adjusted to offer more upfront bonus as part of the guarantee PLUS the opportunity to play on a SB capable team? Yeah, I think he'd take it. Schaub spreads the ball around.

Also, he would be AJ's replacement & we'd lose little.
 
thunderkyss said:
very true, he will not be signed to a 3 year $10M contract. Especially not when his first year's salary would be $475K & a signing bonus less south of $1M

:kubepalm:
Click to expand...
Where did you get 3 year $10m? My post said at least $7m difference if Mario is re-signed. That alone is $21m in 3 and I would offer him at least a five year deal with even more money in years 2-5. Again an AJ type deal.
 
thunderkyss said:
Which is why most of us, who know what we're talking about, were thrilled to learn Butler was returning for 2011 & equally concerned when we found he was going on IR.

Butler performed extremely well in place of Brown to start the 2010 season..... but you don't replace starters with back-ups.

Get rid of Mario & an outside pass rusher becomes your top priority in the offseason. & if Mario does reach free agency, he's hands down the top outside pass rusher.

Forget getting a WR2 in FA or the draft, outside pass rusher is much more valuable & much more of a need.

Forget Dwayne Bowe or Reggie Wayne. If we don't sign Mario, we'll be looking to sign the second best outside pass rusher in FA & (or) targeting the best one in the draft.
Click to expand...
You can replace starters with backup who are younger, cheaper and give comparative productivity. Most NFL teams replace some starters with back ups every year. That is just football.
 
badboy said:
You can replace starters with backup who are younger, cheaper and give comparative productivity. Most NFL teams replace some starters with back ups every year. That is just football.
Click to expand...

Mario Williams is 26, andathletic freak, and led this team in sacks 4 of 5 seasons from 2006-2010. If we let him walk we are not getting a younger pass rusher with "comparative productivity" that is cheaper. Everyone will just have to pick it up across the board.

BTW Most NFL teams don't replace premier pass rushers with backups though. If you want cheaper, then you will most likely get what you pay for. I'm just saying.

I get we were productive down the stretch. But Mario is our top priority (at least until March 13th). If he signs elsewhere then we will try to replace him (but not before March 13th).
 
cbs1507 said:
Mario Williams is 26, andathletic freak, and led this team in sacks 4 of 5 seasons from 2006-2010. If we let him walk we are not getting a younger pass rusher with "comparative productivity" that is cheaper. Everyone will just have to pick it up across the board.

BTW Most NFL teams don't replace premier pass rushers with backups though. If you want cheaper, then you will most likely get what you pay for. I'm just saying.

I get we were productive down the stretch. But Mario is our top priority (at least until March 13th). If he signs elsewhere then we will try to replace him (but not before March 13th).
Click to expand...
And Barwin is 25, faster though not stronger and earns $565,000in 2012. He had 11.5 sacks & even if you project out Mario's 1 per game (which I have done historically)= 16 sacks.

The key is not just a stat for stat comparison but what would we have a chance to get if Mario goes elsewhere. I guess it would be closest to say would the team from 2011 be better with Mario or with what Mario's 2012 cap would allow us to bring in? Yes, we'd have to draft an Ingram in first or a Vinny Curry in second but if we had same WR Bowe? John McClain says Mario's salary was $18m in 2011. We could sign Bowe and prob two more FAs with that.

Just for grins why not post what you would do with $18 million in free agency if Mario said tomorrow he would not be back.
 
cbs1507 said:
You don't understand contract because that is entirely false. Guaranteed money is not necessarily paid up front. The ONLY guaranteed money paid upfront is a signing bonus.
Click to expand...

No guaranteed money can also be in the form of a roster bonus set the day of signing or some short time period thereafter. On the other hand, roster bonuses are often misrepresented as guaranteed money. For example Peyton's $28 mil March 8th roster bonus was reported as guaranteed and it is not.

The guaranteed money not paid upfront is base salary and it is dispersed over the life of the contract.
Click to expand...

You can write the contract to be guaranteed salaries in years 1-3 but nothing guaranteed in years 4-6.

So for example a contract can be reported as a six year deal with $15 mil guaranteed with:

$5 mil signing bonus.
$4 mil first year salary - guaranteed.
$6 mil second year salary - guaranteed.
remainder of contract - not guaranteed.
 
steelbtexan said:
The sky didn't fall because MW got injured and was lost for the season. I would rather spend the $$$$ re-signing the other Texans FA's and drafting a guy like Cam Johnson or Andre Branch in the 2nd rd. (They both remind me of Reed)
Click to expand...

There's no reason we can't do all that & sign Mario.

It won't be easy, but they (football teams) do it all the time.
 
cbs1507 said:
1. We very well may just draft OLB for depth. But we will try to sign Mario first. FA starts March 13th the draft is in April. We have a chance to try to deal with Mario before FA starts and we will try to get a deal done before then.
Click to expand...

We may draft an OLB with a 5th round or later pick.

1-4 should be spent on offense.
 
thunderkyss said:
There's no reason we can't do all that & sign Mario.

It won't be easy, but they (football teams) do it all the time.
Click to expand...
Exactly and what I have predicted. $10m cap 2012 apprx leaving $6-8m cap depending on your source to go after say Bowe with an AJ type deal. WHooee!

John McClain has repeated stated Texans were $20m over the cap last season. Why should they not be willing to do it again. Never understood how that works
 
badboy said:
Where did you get 3 year $10m? My post said at least $7m difference if Mario is re-signed. That alone is $21m in 3 and I would offer him at least a five year deal with even more money in years 2-5. Again an AJ type deal.
Click to expand...

3 years, $10M....... that's what we paid Jj & we've got some people acting like Jacoby had a big payday.... like we signed him to #2 money. He only made $600K in 2011.
 
thunderkyss said:
3 years, $10M....... that's what we paid Jj & we've got some people acting like Jacoby had a big payday.... like we signed him to #2 money. He only made $600K in 2011.
Click to expand...
Oh, I see. I think most are saying 3 m per year just as a reference. I thought he got like 1/2million upfront and so much guaranteed. I would not be much but it could be given to others.
 
badboy said:
Exactly and what I have predicted. $10m cap 2012 apprx leaving $6-8m cap depending on your source to go after say Bowe with an AJ type deal. WHooee!

John McClain has repeated stated Texans were $20m over the cap last season. Why should they not be willing to do it again. Never understood how that works
Click to expand...

When you go over the cap due to incentives and such, the amount that exceeds the cap that year gets deducted from the following year's cap number. Given the contracts, I'm not sure how the Texans would have been over by 20 mill last year, but I know the Cowboys did have 20 mill in dead cap space that they chose to push to 2012. So the Cowboys will have about 20 mill less to work with next year than everyone else.
 
Dutchrudder said:
When you go over the cap due to incentives and such, the amount that exceeds the cap that year gets deducted from the following year's cap number. Given the contracts, I'm not sure how the Texans would have been over by 20 mill last year, but I know the Cowboys did have 20 mill in dead cap space that they chose to push to 2012. So the Cowboys will have about 20 mill less to work with next year than everyone else.
Click to expand...
Yes, I understand that but McCalin is saying that Mario made $18m and Texans were over $20m. $20m is not incentives & if we have to subtract that from 2012 cap that could be bad. i wished John boy would give his sources. I tried to question him on this Thursday but his blog on Chron did not connect.
 
badboy said:
Yes, I understand that but McCalin is saying that Mario made $18m and Texans were over $20m. $20m is not incentives & if we have to subtract that from 2012 cap that could be bad. i wished John boy would give his sources. I tried to question him on this Thursday but his blog on Chron did not connect.
Click to expand...

That doesn't make any sense to me at all. The only way I could see someone coming to the conclusion that the Texans were 20 mill over the cap this year is either 1) they confused them with the Cowboys report or 2) they are adding in all of the signing bonuses paid to JJo and Watt (12.5 and 6.6 mill). Obviously the signing bonuses are paid in 2011, but prorated over the span of the deal.

Fwiw, on August 16th, Jason La Canfora had us at 866k under the cap:

http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/08/16/updated-cap-space-for-all-32-teams/

Obviously that was after all our free agent signings and rookies were signed and other deals were restructured. The only additions we made during the year were minimum deals and such. None of them should have pushed us more than 1 mill over the cap, if that.

Edit: August 29 JLC had us at 2.2 mill under the cap:
http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/08/29/updated-salary-cap-space-numbers-for-all-32-teams/
 
cbs1507 said:
He would be solid coming off the bench. ZERO sacks in the last 5 games showed how teams learned to use his "high motor" against himself. 1) They led him upfield and the QB stepped up in the pocket. There, problem solve. He has a high motor but he is not physically imposing. With the Barwin/Reed combo you have to devise a bunch of stunts and blitzes to free him up. With Mario/Barwin not so much. 2)Mario and Smith worked well together (9.5 sacks in the 1st 5 games). Not so much with Reed and Smith (8 sacks in the last 11 games). Wade Phillips would love to get a chance to have Williams, Barwin and Reed on the field at the same time. You can't do that without Williams. ;)

I'm sure this is Plan B IF we don't sign Mario. Mario Williams is Plan A.

Another example of half ass truth. Those teams you mentioned did draft guys and they kept them (Tuck and Umenyiora for NY; Mayo and Wilfork for NE). You're acting like Mario Williams is coming from another team...we drafted him. We should keep a player we drafted and develop. Otherwise, we will just continue to draft and develop players for other teams.
Click to expand...

1) This is Mario's specialty! Most of Marios sacks come from stunts or when the QB is flushed his way or when the play is extended. He seldom wins his one on one battles against good OLmen. He is not and never will be a speed rusher. I'm cool with Mario coming back as long as the LB experiment is toned down an he plays most of his snaps at the 5 where he belongs.



2) Go back and look a those first five games and checkout how pathetic those OL's were at the time.
 
mussop said:
1) This is Mario's specialty! Most of Marios sacks come from stunts or when the QB is flushed his way or when the play is extended. He seldom wins his one on one battles against good OLmen. He is not and never will be a speed rusher. I'm cool with Mario coming back as long as the LB experiment is toned down an he plays most of his snaps at the 5 where he belongs.



2) Go back and look a those first five games and checkout how pathetic those OL's were at the time.
Click to expand...

Put up a video where most of Mario's sacks come from stunts. In advance you can't because it is BS.
 
This thread is like the HWNSNBM thread.

The pro HWNSNBM people aren't going to change their minds. Just like the pro MW crowd.

I'm all for re-signing MW but not at any cost.

Since reasonable discussion flew out the window long ago, I'm out of this thread.
 
mussop said:
1) This is Mario's specialty! Most of Marios sacks come from stunts or when the QB is flushed his way or when the play is extended. He seldom wins his one on one battles against good OLmen. He is not and never will be a speed rusher. I'm cool with Mario coming back as long as the LB experiment is toned down an he plays most of his snaps at the 5 where he belongs.



2) Go back and look a those first five games and checkout how pathetic those OL's were at the time.
Click to expand...

Wow another half ass truth. :kubepalm:

Here are some highlights from previous seasons. How many stunts on these plays...
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80518b02/Week-15-Mario-Williams-highlights
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-pro-bowl/09000d5d80e774f0/2008-Best-of-Mario-Williams
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gHwQSraaPY (how many of our pass rushers are in the top 100 outside of Williams? ZERO.)

Here are Williams' sacks/pressures from 2011...

Indy...yeah they're on Dallas Clark (whoopty doo) NO STUNTS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40gXQLrfJy8&feature=player_embedded#!


Miami...No STUNTS
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d8225c1b1/Texans-defense-sack-8-yd-loss( Mario DOUBLE TEAMED gives everyone else for 1 on 1)
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d8225da5e/Texans-defense-sack-9-yd-loss (Mario beat his man but great job by A. Smith)

New Orleans...NO STUNTS
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d82290cd7/Texans-defense-sack-7-yd-loss (Mario beat his man but great job by A. Smith)
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d8228ad58/Texans-defense-sack-9-yd-loss (3 and 8 and Brees was looking in his direction he did what you are supposed to do GET YOUR HANDS UP great play by Watt)

Pittsburgh...again NO STUNTS
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d822c33cd/Texans-defense-sack-4-yd-loss
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d822c3774/Texans-defense-sack-6-yd-loss
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d822c3651/Texans-defense-sack-7-yd-loss (he did not get credited with sack but he got to the QB)

Oakland...NO STUNTS
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d822f5dfb/Texans-defense-sack-1-yd-loss (I believe he got hurt on this play)


I'm sorry but you are making outlandish claims that you cannot even prove. You can belittle them all you want, but a sack is a sack. He is very valuable to this team. That is why we will try to do what we can to bring him back next year. Also I do not no where people get this idea that we cannot afford Williams. Nobody actually knows the cap situation.

Here is the latest on the 2011 salary cap...
http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/08/29/updated-salary-cap-space-numbers-for-all-32-teams/ (props to dutchrudder)

Here's another that confirms the same...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/updated-cap-space-as-of-august-29/

I would like some rep for this post please (I spread rep back). ;)
 
Last edited:
infantrycak said:
Put up a video where most of Mario's sacks come from stunts. In advance you can't because it is BS.
Click to expand...

How about you put up a video where most of Mario's sacks aren't coming from stunts or when the QB is flushed his way or when the play is extended. In advance you can't.

Like I said he seldom wins his one on one battles against good OLmen. He is not and never will be a speed rusher. This defense is better served with speed off the edges and penetrators up front. Thats exactly why we became so good after Mario went down.

My point is that he is a power rusher and he belongs on the inside where his combo of speed, size and athleticism is to much for interior OL men. The only way he is effective lining up on the outside is when Wade can find ways to line Mario up where he goes one on one with TE's and RB's. If not he is ineffective for to much of the game. He just doesn't have the pass rush moves or hand skills to beat quality OT's.

This is why he has the reputation of taking plays off or disappearing for stretches of games. Its not because he isn't trying, its because its not in his game. He wasn't put in the ideal position for him to succeed with his skill set. every since he got here coaches have been trying to turn him into a speed rusher.

Then Wade came along and fell into the same trap. I know you're going to say look at what he did at OLB in this system. To that I say I wasn't impressed. Only one of his sacks were made where he blew off the line and made a beautiful arm over move and got to the QB really quick. off course it was against Dallas Clark a receiving TE. His last sack against Oakland was just a great timed jump at the snap. now if he could do that more he would scary coming off the edge.

Look at what JJ Watt was able to do at the 5. Now imagine putting him at the OLB and do you see what a waste that would be? And before you say Watt isn't the athlete Mario is you need to check the numbers. Their pretty close.
 
mussop said:
How about you put up a video where most of Mario's sacks aren't coming from stunts or when the QB is flushed his way or when the play is extended. In advance you can't.

Like I said he seldom wins his one on one battles against good OLmen. He is not and never will be a speed rusher. This defense is better served with speed off the edges and penetrators up front. Thats exactly why we became so good after Mario went down.

My point is that he is a power rusher and he belongs on the inside where his combo of speed, size and athleticism is to much for interior OL men. The only way he is effective lining up on the outside is when Wade can find ways to line Mario up where he goes one on one with TE's and RB's. If not he is ineffective for to much of the game. He just doesn't have the pass rush moves or hand skills to beat quality OT's.

This is why he has the reputation of taking plays off or disappearing for stretches of games. Its not because he isn't trying, its because its not in his game. He wasn't put in the ideal position for him to succeed with his skill set. every since he got here coaches have been trying to turn him into a speed rusher.

Then Wade came along and fell into the same trap. I know you're going to say look at what he did at OLB in this system. To that I say I wasn't impressed. Only one of his sacks were made where he blew off the line and made a beautiful arm over move and got to the QB really quick. off course it was against Dallas Clark a receiving TE. His last sack against Oakland was just a great timed jump at the snap. now if he could do that more he would scary coming off the edge.

Look at what JJ Watt was able to do at the 5. Now imagine putting him at the OLB and do you see what a waste that would be? And before you say Watt isn't the athlete Mario is you need to check the numbers. Their pretty close.
Click to expand...

You should quit while you're behind. :lol:(see post above yours).
 
cbs1507 said:
1. We ran a 4-3 defense from 2006 until Wade Phillips was hired. I do not know where you got this from.

2. That may be true, but he did not "outperform" Williams in his 11 games down the stretch. Williams 5 sacks in 5 games. Reed 6 sacks in 11 games, and he failed to record a sack in the last 5 games.
Click to expand...

thunderkyss said:
We played out of a 3-4 front several times..... way too many times if you ask me... under Frank Bush. I personally gained the opinion that Okoye would fare much better as a 3-4 end because of his performance during that time.

If you didn't notice, you weren't paying attention, because it happened a lot.
Click to expand...

cbs1507 said:
4-3 was our base defense. If we ran a few snaps of 3-4, I guess I didn't notice. I guess that's not too surprising because teams implement wrinkles of other schemes all the time. Some downhill running teams, implement zone blocking wrinkles every now and again (Baltimore does it). I even seen some other 4-3 teams mix in some 3-4 looks and vice versa. It's not like it was our main defense. It was just that, a wrinkle. Mario Williams was still a 4-3 DE at the end of the day.
Click to expand...
We have discussed this during the off-season and I had gone back to show that the Texans played with 3 down linemen (and even two) plenty enough such that I predicted that the change to the 3-4 won't take long (as most people thought.)

There was at least one game in which we played about as much out of the 3-4 as I counted the Cowboys played in one of their game (early 2010 when Wade was their HC.)

My point is that Mario can play 34 OLB as well as 43 DE.
I'm sure he can also play well as a 34 DE also.

To sum it up, I'd like to use the words of Jon Gruden; in one of the pre-season games, he told Jaws (who was concerned about Mario moving to OLB):
"If you worry about Mario; I worry about you."
 
76Texan said:
We have discussed this during the off-season and I had gone back to show that the Texans played with 3 down linemen (and even two) plenty enough such that I predicted that the change to the 3-4 won't take long (as most people thought.)

My point is that Mario can play 34 OLB as well as 43 DE.
I'm sure he can also play well as a 34 DE also.
Click to expand...

True.

I even recall his rookie season, when we moved him around alot. RDE, LDE, DT, rush OLB... most people didn't like the extra movement, & thought it was too much for the rookie. However, most asked to see more of Mario standing up, because he did so well.

& anyone claiming Mario is a liability when dropping in coverage has not been paying attention. From what I've seen, he understands zone concepts better than any of our LBs.... 1-on-1, I haven't seen enough to form an opinion, but zone drops.... I'm not worried about Mario one bit.
 
76Texan said:
We have discussed this during the off-season and I had gone back to show that the Texans played with 3 down linemen (and even two) plenty enough such that I predicted that the change to the 3-4 won't take long (as most people thought.)

There was at least one game in which we played about as much out of the 3-4 as I counted the Cowboys played in one of their game (early 2010 when Wade was their HC.)

My point is that Mario can play 34 OLB as well as 43 DE.
I'm sure he can also play well as a 34 DE also.

To sum it up, I'd like to use the words of Jon Gruden; in one of the pre-season games, he told Jaws (who was concerned about Mario moving to OLB):
"If you worry about Mario; I worry about you."
Click to expand...


Of course Mario can play any of those positions. Who cares? Nobody will deny Mario has a lot of physical ability.

The question is: "will he play any of them with consistent energy, intensity, effort... and, will he be healthy enough to justify all the money he will want?" Beyond that, even if the answer is "yes", does the financial risk make sense in the light of the fact that the defense was still dominant without him?
 
Jon Gruden is a glorified entertainer. From his perch in the press box, he is free to fawn all over talented players... It's part of his job, first of all, and he no longer has the responsibility of convincing that talent to perform, nor with dealing with the confines of a salary cap.

The fact that some of you are reduced to quoting a Jon Gruden quip doesn't exactly settle any arguments, despite any dancing animals, exclamation points, or cheers of "you got burnt!"
 
cbs1507 said:
You should quit while you're behind. :lol:(see post above yours).
Click to expand...


My contention was, is and always will be that Mario is a power rusher and should be playing inside. As I said in my previous post "The only way he is effective lining up on the outside is when Wade can find ways to line Mario up where he goes one on one with TE's and RB's. If not he is ineffective for to much of the game. He just doesn't have the pass rush moves or hand skills to beat quality OT's.".

I knew if I worded it right someone would do the dirty work for me and post a bunch of videos of Mario. Thank you gofer!

cbs1507 said:
Wow another half ass truth.

Here are some highlights from previous seasons. How many stunts on these plays...
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d80518b02/Week-15-Mario-Williams-highlights
Click to expand...
In this video on his first sack he only has to beat a RB to get to the QB and does. Point me! On the second sack he bull rushes his way into the QB but with plenty of help up the middle. The QB would of been sacked anyway. However bull rush = power. Point me. On the third sack he beats a TE with a power move but only because the QB try's to step up and away from backside pressure. Point me! On the fourth sack, bullrush while the entire pocket collapses around the QB. Point me.

Its funny you use the highlight video of that game because its really the only game that you could say he ever really dominated. But since you have set the bar for using the term dominant "
cbs1507 said:
Dominant against who? We were good down the stretch for sure. But how many of the teams we dominated had good offense or QBs?
Click to expand...
"

I guess we can't consider that a dominant performance since against a weak OL.

cbs1507 said:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-pro-bowl/09000d5d80e774f0/2008-Best-of-Mario-Williams
Click to expand...

You can't be serious? the only impression anyone could away with from watching that video is that we have some fine ars cheerleaders.

cbs1507 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gHwQSraaPY (how many of our pass rushers are in the top 100 outside of Williams? ZERO.)
Click to expand...

Stupid question considering both of our starting OLB's are so young. And the video? Most of it was such bad camera angles or not whole plays. If anything proved my point. Did you see (@148) where he threw of #71 of the Titans and swallowed up the RB? That is the point I'm trying to make. Point me.

Here are Williams' sacks/pressures from 2011...[/QUOTE]

Actually I have discussed the 2011 sacks at length in this thread. The first 4 teams we played had horrible lines at the time. And again like you said, the competition was about as weak as you get. But hey for fun lets take a look at your videos.

cbs1507 said:
Indy...yeah they're on Dallas Clark (whoopty doo) NO STUNTS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40gXQLrfJy8&feature=player_embedded#!
Click to expand...

Again my point. Lined up against a receiving TE. And I believe I even mentioned this particular game.


cbs1507 said:
Miami...No STUNTS
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d8225c1b1/Texans-defense-sack-8-yd-loss( Mario DOUBLE TEAMED gives everyone else for 1 on 1)
Click to expand...

Actually Mario does stunt on this play and he isn't even the one who gets the sack. In fact he is the farthest away from the QB of all the guys rushing. Not sure why put this video here other than to try and make it look like you had a point by adding as many videos as you could. FAIL! :lol:

cbs1507 said:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d8225da5e/Texans-defense-sack-9-yd-loss (Mario beat his man but great job by A. Smith)
Click to expand...

Again Mario doesn't even get the sack here. :lol: He does exactly what I said, this is his specialty.

cbs1507 said:
New Orleans...NO STUNTS
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d82290cd7/Texans-defense-sack-7-yd-loss (Mario beat his man but great job by A. Smith)
Click to expand...
Again Mario doesn't get the sack! And yes he does beat his man by doing an inside loop. Do you even know what a stunt is? :lol:

cbs1507 said:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d8228ad58/Texans-defense-sack-9-yd-loss (3 and 8 and Brees was looking in his direction he did what you are supposed to do GET YOUR HANDS UP great play by Watt)
Click to expand...

WTF? This has nothing to do with the conversation.

cbs1507 said:
Pittsburgh...again NO STUNTS
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d822c33cd/Texans-defense-sack-4-yd-loss
Click to expand...

OMG! Thank you for showing another video that shows Mario getting rode for a big ass loop. Like I said earlier, his specialty. On this play yes he gets the sack but only because the QB rolls right into his path. :wadepalm:

cbs1507 said:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d822c3774/Texans-defense-sack-6-yd-loss
Click to expand...

Who is this he is beating? If he could only do this regularly against good OT's you might have an argument.

cbs1507 said:
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d822c3651/Texans-defense-sack-7-yd-loss (he did not get credited with sack but he got to the QB)
Click to expand...



cbs1507 said:
Oakland...NO STUNTS
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d822f5dfb/Texans-defense-sack-1-yd-loss (I believe he got hurt on this play)


I'm sorry but you are making outlandish claims that you cannot even prove. You can belittle them all you want, but a sack is a sack. He is very valuable to this team. That is why we will try to do what we can to bring him back next year. Also I do not no where people get this idea that we cannot afford Williams. Nobody actually knows the cap situation.

Here is the latest on the 2011 salary cap...
http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/08/29/updated-salary-cap-space-numbers-for-all-32-teams/ (props to dutchrudder)

Here's another that confirms the same...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/08/29/updated-cap-space-as-of-august-29/

I would like some rep for this post please (I spread rep back). ;)
Click to expand...

WOW, whoring for reps? That is sad my friend. But not as sad as your failed attempt at posting a bunch of meaningless videos to try and prove your point.
 
For me it is the Texans will be better next season with or without Mario and that is what I care about the rest is just personal opinion on what each of us want.
 
badboy said:
For me it is the Texans will be better next season with or without Mario and that is what I care about the rest is just personal opinion on what each of us want.
Click to expand...
That's not entirely accurate. The Texans could be significantly worse off if they sign MW and are forced to let another FA or two walk, such as Myers or Foster(not gonna happen). They could also be worse off if they let MW walk and the injury bug bites again and we're short on depth. There's really no win-win I can see from this situation. This is why I was wishing the Texans would've traded him during FA or TC.
 
mussop said:
My contention was, is and always will be that Mario is a power rusher and should be playing inside. As I said in my previous post "The only way he is effective lining up on the outside is when Wade can find ways to line Mario up where he goes one on one with TE's and RB's. If not he is ineffective for to much of the game. He just doesn't have the pass rush moves or hand skills to beat quality OT's.".

I knew if I worded it right someone would do the dirty work for me and post a bunch of videos of Mario. Thank you gofer!


In this video on his first sack he only has to beat a RB to get to the QB and does. Point me! On the second sack he bull rushes his way into the QB but with plenty of help up the middle. The QB would of been sacked anyway. However bull rush = power. Point me. On the third sack he beats a TE with a power move but only because the QB try's to step up and away from backside pressure. Point me! On the fourth sack, bullrush while the entire pocket collapses around the QB. Point me.

Its funny you use the highlight video of that game because its really the only game that you could say he ever really dominated. But since you have set the bar for using the term dominant ""

I guess we can't consider that a dominant performance since against a weak OL.



You can't be serious? the only impression anyone could away with from watching that video is that we have some fine ars cheerleaders.



Stupid question considering both of our starting OLB's are so young. And the video? Most of it was such bad camera angles or not whole plays. If anything proved my point. Did you see (@148) where he threw of #71 of the Titans and swallowed up the RB? That is the point I'm trying to make. Point me.

Here are Williams' sacks/pressures from 2011...

Actually I have discussed the 2011 sacks at length in this thread. The first 4 teams we played had horrible lines at the time. And again like you said, the competition was about as weak as you get. But hey for fun lets take a look at your videos.



Again my point. Lined up against a receiving TE. And I believe I even mentioned this particular game.




Actually Mario does stunt on this play and he isn't even the one who gets the sack. In fact he is the farthest away from the QB of all the guys rushing. Not sure why put this video here other than to try and make it look like you had a point by adding as many videos as you could. FAIL! :lol:



Again Mario doesn't even get the sack here. :lol: He does exactly what I said, this is his specialty.


Again Mario doesn't get the sack! And yes he does beat his man by doing an inside loop. Do you even know what a stunt is? :lol:



WTF? This has nothing to do with the conversation.



OMG! Thank you for showing another video that shows Mario getting rode for a big ass loop. Like I said earlier, his specialty. On this play yes he gets the sack but only because the QB rolls right into his path. :wadepalm:



Who is this he is beating? If he could only do this regularly against good OT's you might have an argument.







WOW, whoring for reps? That is sad my friend. But not as sad as your failed attempt at posting a bunch of meaningless videos to try and prove your point.
Click to expand...

You tried, but your point is irrelevant. I like how you tried to single out plays and IGNORED that fact that I credited the other people that got sacks. I was just pointing out that Mario still beat his man on those plays. And on the Miami video I was pointing out that he got double teamed which freed up everyone else for 1 on 1. If you can't see the value of Mario Williams on those plays I really can't help you out. What is your gripe about Mario Williams bullrushing? He's getting to the QB and he's finishing the play. Brooks Reed could take some notes. He avoids contact and tries to run around the o linemen and just takes himself out of the play. Of course I don't blame since he's a smaller guy. He is not physically imposing. I would be ashamed if I saw Williams trying to run around offensive linemen every play (it would be very ineffective as well). I never seen a coach complain about a guy bullrushing an offensive tackle especially when he is bringing the QB down. So you have no point. Just stop it.

BTW on the Pittsburgh highlight you tried to claim that the QB rolled into Williams. PLEASE. Big Ben tried to run away and got caught. Williams is a combination of size, speed and explosiveness, strength. Just because he can "bullrush" an OT/o lineman does not mean he cannot do other things.
 
Last edited:
cbs1507 said:
Mario Williams has been a 4-3 DE his entire career. Wade Phillips implemented the 3-4 scheme and envisioned Williams converting to a OLB in the 3-4 scheme. Why would you sign a player who played 4-3 DE his entire career to a long term contract when you have NEVER seen him play the 3-4 scheme? That should be self-explanatory.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I'm a little late to the party.

Won't cross swords with you cbs as, you've proven as a masterDbater. But 5 sacks in 5 games? Yeah, pretty thinking I've watched him play the 3-4 "scheme".

Carry on. :tiphat:
 
Anybody hear Shannon Sharpe yesterday or Jay Glazer today on 610, both said Mario good player but for the money he will command they don't think the Texans will sign him.

It all comes down to the cap. This is business on both sides and Mario I think is going to hit FA and get a crazy offer and the Texans will not be able to match.

Somebody tell me why Mario will not test the FA market?

Does anybody think the Texans tried to work something out before the season started and Mario said no?

I don't think the Texans hold any of the cards in this game.

What do you think the best offer Mario will receive when he hits FA?
 
DocBar said:
That's not entirely accurate. The Texans could be significantly worse off if they sign MW and are forced to let another FA or two walk, such as Myers or Foster(not gonna happen). They could also be worse off if they let MW walk and the injury bug bites again and we're short on depth. There's really no win-win I can see from this situation. This is why I was wishing the Texans would've traded him during FA or TC.
Click to expand...

gafftop said:
Simplified possible Mario outcomes next season:
1. Plays good when healthy but has some type of nagging injury as last two years
2. Does not adapt to 3-4.
3. Plays great in his contract year

In 1 we get probably nothing or do we get compensation because we do not sign as we did with Dunta. Last pick in draft. LOL

In 2 same as 1

In 3, do you want to give Mario say 20+ million for the next 5 years based on his last year of performance. Say the cap is 120 million. If you divide in half, half for offense and half for defense, do you really want to give Mario 33% of all money for defense? I sure don't. DO YOU?

In reality probably no player is worth that large of % of cap. Maybe Peyton or Brady etc QBs of that caliber may be the only position that warrants that and even then it is a crap shoot because of injury.

The above is why I think IF you can get a good deal in a trade this year you do it.

It is very likely that other teams view Mario in the same way and will give nothing for him this year. I don't know. But if there are teams out that that covet him I think it should seriously be considered by the Texans.

I don't think Aso is a good deal based on reasoning above.
Just my opinion.
Click to expand...

The 2nd quote posted 4/19/11

Here we are 9 months later and I agree with Doc and it was my point 9 months ago. We lose now no matter what.

I see no way Mario stays and that will be more Mario's doing than the Texans.
 
gafftop said:
Anybody hear Shannon Sharpe yesterday or Jay Glazer today on 610, both said Mario good player but for the money he will command they don't think the Texans will sign him.

It all comes down to the cap. This is business on both sides and Mario I think is going to hit FA and get a crazy offer and the Texans will not be able to match.

Somebody tell me why Mario will not test the FA market?

Does anybody think the Texans tried to work something out before the season started and Mario said no?

I don't think the Texans hold any of the cards in this game.

What do you think the best offer Mario will receive when he hits FA?
Click to expand...

I think he will be offered a Julius Peppers type deal to play DE for a 4-3 team. 6 years 90 million or 7 years 100 million-ish. Average somewhere around 13-15 mill a year. If the Texans get him for less than that, then Mario is doing them a favor.
 
Dutchrudder said:
I think he will be offered a Julius Peppers type deal to play DE for a 4-3 team. 6 years 90 million or 7 years 100 million-ish. Average somewhere around 13-15 mill a year. If the Texans get him for less than that, then Mario is doing them a favor.
Click to expand...

This is the point I think people who are "in favor" of letting Mario walk are saying.

I know we could sign him to along term deal which would lessen the cap hit, but I've said all along what does your realistic long term contract look like. I've seen a few hopeful wishing to get him in the 5-6 range. Realistically I think the best we can hope for is 8-9, but I think he can easily command double digits. I don't think he's going to quite get Peppers kind of numbs because he hasn't been the type of game changer he was in Carolina, but I'd be surprised if it totaled less than 5 years and 50 million.

honestly, I find it hard to believe Mario won't test what kind of contract he can garner. I think it's hopeful wishing that we'd sign him before he becomes a FA. If the texans do and get him in the 7-8 million range it's a steal.
 
gafftop said:
Anybody hear Shannon Sharpe yesterday or Jay Glazer today on 610, both said Mario good player but for the money he will command they don't think the Texans will sign him.

It all comes down to the cap. This is business on both sides and Mario I think is going to hit FA and get a crazy offer and the Texans will not be able to match.

Somebody tell me why Mario will not test the FA market?

Does anybody think the Texans tried to work something out before the season started and Mario said no?

I don't think the Texans hold any of the cards in this game.

What do you think the best offer Mario will receive when he hits FA?
Click to expand...

I think the Texans will work out a lucrative deal that will be comparable to what he would get if he were to hit FA. We'll have him signed before FA starts.

The cap is a funny thing, it's a bunch of funny money that you can manipulate to keep the players you want.

I think the Texans are becoming that team that FA are interested in. Most likely it will take another season or two like 2011 & we'll be "the" destination.

Mario is here, he already knows what other FAs will find out. Why would he go anywhere else?
 
Goldensilence said:
This is the point I think people who are "in favor" of letting Mario walk are saying.

I know we could sign him to along term deal which would lessen the cap hit, but I've said all along what does your realistic long term contract look like. I've seen a few hopeful wishing to get him in the 5-6 range. Realistically I think the best we can hope for is 8-9, but I think he can easily command double digits. I don't think he's going to quite get Peppers kind of numbs because he hasn't been the type of game changer he was in Carolina, but I'd be surprised if it totaled less than 5 years and 50 million.

honestly, I find it hard to believe Mario won't test what kind of contract he can garner. I think it's hopeful wishing that we'd sign him before he becomes a FA. If the texans do and get him in the 7-8 million range it's a steal.
Click to expand...

I don't see how Mario could possibly get to the point where he would accept a deal that didn't average more than 10 million a year. If Charles freaking Johnson can get crazy money, I know Mario can. I'd love to see a quote of someone projecting the 5-6 million range though. lol... We will be lucky to get Foster for that much.

Given comparable deals around the league, which I have detailed in threads long ago, there is just no way Mario signs for less than 10 million average salary. Unless of course he changed his agent to Andre's cousin. I would gladly place a bet on that and take the over. Mario's no dummy, he's knows what he's worth.
 
We could sign MW to a 10 yr $100 mil contract with, say $50mil gauranteed and opt out/buy out clauses after X number of yrs. That's about the best I could realistically think of but I think MW would want more money gauranteed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top