amazing80
Hall of Fame
So fine, pay Mario and our roster will become ramen noodles and chopped lunchmeat....
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Mario movement rumors (MERGED) Signs with Buffalo $100 million
- Thread starter gafftop
- Start date
So fine, pay Mario and our roster will become ramen noodles and chopped lunchmeat....
Does that point to Mario being "worth" that much money, or some poor owner got suckered? We don't want an owner that gets suckered do we?
Elite pass rushers. MW is a very good pass rusher. (Not Freeney/Ware/Matthews good, but still very good.) 10 mil seems fair to me with MW coming off injury.
Soliai plays NT not DE?
you better go real light on the lunchmeat for ten bucks
A guy I know at work uses Hot Dogs in his ramen noodle.
He cut them in third and put a few slices in them length-wise (2/3 of the way or so).
When it's heated up, they curl and look like squids (what he says.)
And the dude weighs some 250-260 lbs.
He plays lineman in HS.
That's the NFl. Schaub, Andre, Arian, Mario, Jjo.... that's your Cheddars or whatever. Jjones, James Casey, Mike Brisiel, Brice McCain... ramen noodles & lunchmeat.
Tom Brady... papa deauxs.... the rest of the team, ramen noodles.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
drs23
Veteran
Just because we sign Mario to a fair market deal, does not mean that we won't be able to feed the rest of the family.
I understand where dalemurphyis coming from. I didn't like Dunta Robinson & no amount of money would have been "reasonable" to me. The Texans franchised him... should have used that money to get a real corner.
I think Mario is worth $12-$14M/yr, dalemurphy does not.... nothing I can say (obviously) will change his mind. I just wish he'd stop with the, "if we sign Mario, we won't be able to afford x player" that's not true, or at least we don't have enough information to reach that conclusion. It is his opinion. Would be fine if he presented it as his opinion, but he's not...... same as you.
I can feed the fam fine on $10 a week.
We're neighbors. I wanna know where the hell you shop! I wanna go!
I think we need to do a sign and trade if possible and get some picks for Mario and move on and draft another OLB with the possible first round pick that we acquire in the possible trade and keep it moving it will be much cheeper then we can re-sign Arian Foster & Chris Myers.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Sign and trade is more of an NBA thing, doesn't happen really in the NFL. The two outcomes that are most likely to happen are: One, we sign him to an extension or new deal and he remains a Texans for X amount of years, or two he goes into free agency and collects offers from other teams and is more than likely not going to be a Texan. There is a small chance that the Texans franchise him, which would be really dumb in my opinion, but that's basically it. We are not getting any draft picks for Mario Williams unless it is in the form of compensatory picks.
GP
Go Texans!
From a pure financial aspect, you let him walk. Period.
Doesn't matter if you like him, loathe him, or are indifferent to him. If this team wants to shackle itself for years to come, and be hindered in annual free agency opportunities, then go ahead and sign him.
But if you liked the defense you saw in 2011, knowing that it returns almost completely in the same form and fashion as it did last year, with the guy running it who knows how to run it, then why sign the guy to the HUGE contract that he will want? We are in position to be almost a Baltimore Ravens-type defense legacy here...a decade of nothing but plug-and-play, replenish and release, as needed, to stay a top defense every year. If Ravens had a better QB, they're playing in the SB not the Patriots. Same for us, btw. Love me some Yates, but it is what it is.
Why not make damn sure you can retain guys like Chris Myers (Geez, how that guy has grown since his first year here!), Arian Foster, and make a run at possibly Reggie Wayne or some other FA WR?
We won the Battle Of The Draft (MW vs. RB vs. VY) but that doesn't mean we get goofy and think we're obligated to tie Mario Williams around the neck of this franchise and toss it into the Gulf and ask it to swim hard and fast toward a Super Bowl.
By virtue of our success on defense, the success of this offense and its need for "next level" upgrades at WR and maintain the o-line and pay the franchise RB what he's worth, it has rendered the re-signing of Mario Williams impossible. It has nothing to do with whether he's good or not. It has everything to do with "dems da breaks, yo." That's how the cookie crumbles. It's business.
Doesn't matter if you like him, loathe him, or are indifferent to him. If this team wants to shackle itself for years to come, and be hindered in annual free agency opportunities, then go ahead and sign him.
But if you liked the defense you saw in 2011, knowing that it returns almost completely in the same form and fashion as it did last year, with the guy running it who knows how to run it, then why sign the guy to the HUGE contract that he will want? We are in position to be almost a Baltimore Ravens-type defense legacy here...a decade of nothing but plug-and-play, replenish and release, as needed, to stay a top defense every year. If Ravens had a better QB, they're playing in the SB not the Patriots. Same for us, btw. Love me some Yates, but it is what it is.
Why not make damn sure you can retain guys like Chris Myers (Geez, how that guy has grown since his first year here!), Arian Foster, and make a run at possibly Reggie Wayne or some other FA WR?
We won the Battle Of The Draft (MW vs. RB vs. VY) but that doesn't mean we get goofy and think we're obligated to tie Mario Williams around the neck of this franchise and toss it into the Gulf and ask it to swim hard and fast toward a Super Bowl.
By virtue of our success on defense, the success of this offense and its need for "next level" upgrades at WR and maintain the o-line and pay the franchise RB what he's worth, it has rendered the re-signing of Mario Williams impossible. It has nothing to do with whether he's good or not. It has everything to do with "dems da breaks, yo." That's how the cookie crumbles. It's business.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
So you are saying there is no reasonable contract that you think could be worked out between Williams and the Texans that you would be okay with?
I don't understand this 100% all or nothing attitude towards Williams. You can sign him to a deal that won't kill your teams payrolls if you can get him to agree to it. You don't have to just "let him walk" and think you're better off without even attempting to keep him retained at 50% of what he was paid in 2011 for 2012.
GP
Go Texans!
You think Mario is going to sign a friendly deal? LOL.
I've thought about this a lot. I have zero animosity toward Mario Williams. He made us competitive for as long as he was here. But moving forward, he isn't a piece of the puzzle that makes or breaks our defense anymore.
I have no doubt that he is going to want to be THE highest paid defensive player in the game. And if we don't pay it, someone else will.
I will be shocked if Mario has the Texans design a contract in such a way that it is not prohibitive to the upcoming flexibility we need to retain other players. We let VONTA LEACH go, and didn't miss a beat because of it. Rick Smith is not going to risk the dozens of others moves he's made here just to land Mario Williams. I suppose the consistent "sentimental" trait of Bob McNair, as he did with Carr and Dunta Robinson, is a wild card in this process, however. If Bob wants Mario badly enough, it will be done.
But I wonder if Bob's noobie label is wearing off. I wonder if he even dreamed that we'd be in the divisional playoffs if you'd have told him in August that we were going to lose AJ, Mario, Schaub, Leinart, D. Manning, Briesel, Foster, Hartmann and others for as much time as we did and STILL win the AFC South and be a few plays away from AFC Championship game. LOL. I wonder if the days of retaining Carr and Robinson, the "one last ride into the sunset" mindset is gone from McNair's psyche? It ought to be, IMO. SOLIDLY.
But whatever. If we can retain him and it's franchise-friendly, then it's fine with me. I just don't see Mario giving us any breaks on the deal.
GP
Go Texans!
I'm really excited either way, tbh. I mean...when has this team EVER been this good, like the way we were in 2011? I think we all expected it, but after 2010 it felt like it might never get here.
We're in position to build the foundation to such great strength that it makes us perennial AFC South champs for years to come. This is the sweet spot, IMO, where we have a window of time to be smart in our transactions and capitalize off of it.
Jags fans, Colts fans, Titans fans: How you feel right now, THAT'S how we felt all these years. You have faith (heart), but your eyes tell your brain that it's an uphill road each year.
We're in position to build the foundation to such great strength that it makes us perennial AFC South champs for years to come. This is the sweet spot, IMO, where we have a window of time to be smart in our transactions and capitalize off of it.
Jags fans, Colts fans, Titans fans: How you feel right now, THAT'S how we felt all these years. You have faith (heart), but your eyes tell your brain that it's an uphill road each year.
2012Champs
Hall of Fame
If I was Mario Id want the most money possible. If thats his thought process the texans should let him walk
marks01234
Noob
I don't think it will be all about money for Mario. Maybe I'm wrong but he seems to have a sincere interest in returning. There is usually some value for a player to stay in the same spot espically if they have built ties to the community which Mario seems to have done.
I think we figure out a way to get the deal done. Our shot is over the next two years IMO. Doesn't mean we should charge everything. Besides, I see the NFL cap continueing to take off over the next five seasons. New TV money will bring in a lot and their are a lot other factors at play.
I think we figure out a way to get the deal done. Our shot is over the next two years IMO. Doesn't mean we should charge everything. Besides, I see the NFL cap continueing to take off over the next five seasons. New TV money will bring in a lot and their are a lot other factors at play.
i actually agree with u..
WoW, LOL
New England begs to differ with you
See: Deion Branch/Cassell trades As well as the Welker trade with the Pats on the receiving end of the trade.
Could you provide a quote from Mario or his agent that backs up that assertion. Otherwise you're simply projecting how you would think in his situation. I do recall Mario structuring his #1 overall pick deal that was favorable (at the time) to the Texans so they could sign other players. He "gave us a break" back then. What proof do you have that his pro-Texans mindset has changed?
Mario is coming off a bad, injury-ended season. And was hurt the year before that. Plus, as several have pointed out, the defense was pretty dang good without him. So he's not bargaining from a position of strength. And, unlike Dunta, I've seen no evidence that he's itching to get out of Houston.
I will admit that if someone offers him reeeally stupid money that we won't match he might take it. But due to his recent injuries I don't really see that happening.
GP
Go Texans!
Hmmmm....sounds like you, also, are "Projecting how the other 31 NFL teams would think in their situations" when considering signing Mario away from Houston.
But I won't be a jerk and play straw man games like you did. I won't build you up and then burn you down by challenging YOU to show me YOUR sources.
Hey Obsi, I'm not sure if you noticed, but this is a sports message board and a lot of people project how things are going to go down. It's sort of normal.
GP
Go Texans!
Citation not needed*
*See: My reply to Obsi, who is also playing the "show me your sources" card.
Are you guys really going to play that card? We're all tossing around the ideas of what may happen and what possibly won't happen.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
In casr u didn't know or don't care, u can't re-negotiate when a player is in the last yr of his deal. Continue with ur crooked posts.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
Huh? Who said? That is simply not true. OR, if it is, please show or point me to that CBA rule.
drs23
Veteran
Not trying to derail this thread but I've wondered about that all season. Same Coach, same players, same scheme. What the hell happened.
Real question looking for real answers because I'm concerned that the same could happen right here next season. Sophomore slumps and the such.
Input?
They let Cullen Jenkins walk in the offseason. They probably thought the same about him as some guys here feel about Mario.
drs23
Veteran
Ah, forgot about that. So Jenkins was the glue that held that entire defense together? What about B.J. Ragi disappearing and the rest of the crew just weren't as sharp as before. Just because they let one guy walk?
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
You are forgetting one, tiny detail:
Cullen Jenkins was on the field in 2010 when the Packers were playing great defense. Mario was on I.R. when the Texans were playing great defense. Do you really think the absence of Mario in street clothes will ruin the defense?
The Packers defense wasn't as bad as that stat indicates. Their explosive offense is a reason for their defense allowing so many yards. It also happens that the Packers were among the leaders in turnovers.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
The Cassell thing was a "Franchise-then-trade" which has been apparently written out of the new CBA. Branch still had a year left on his contract and was a holdout in Training Camp then the Pats traded him the first week of 2006 to the Seahawks.
Neither case is going to have much impact on what will happen to Mario Williams situation.
EDIT:
Apparently the way the franchise tag works now is that if the player is offered the franchise tag, then he is on your books immediately for that year even if he does not sign the franchise tag. Which means that GM's can easily play a waiting game while you bleed your cap dry by franchising a player you don't actually plan on keeping.
Essentially he gave them more versatility on defense. He freed up their edge rushers and allowed the DC to get more creative because they could get pressure with less. Not so much this year.
True we did play well without Mario. But were we playing bad defense with Mario Williams? He didn't miss the whole season.
They did get a good amount of takeaways, but they were not nearly as dominant as they were last year. Aaron Rodgers just was able to mask some of their weaknesses. Last time I checked we don't have Aaron Rodgers on our team. BTW they did not get nearly as much pressure as they did last year. In 2010 they were a disruptive defense and were 2nd in sacks. This year just 27th. I would say you can attribute that to the loss of a player like Cullen Jenkins.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
I like to base my ideas off of stuff other than my imagination. I have yet to hear any public statements (or twitter statements or whatever) from anybody claiming to represent Mario Williams that he wants to be the highest paid defensive player in the league. Find me something that says those words (That isn't your own inner monologue) and we can have more polite exchanges of ideas.
drs23
Veteran
Can't quite get a handle on your point, or what you're saying here.
Please expound.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
Apparently if your offense is really good it will. . . hurt your defense somehow?
What hurt the Packers defense the most was that Tramon Williams and Nick Collins were either injured or did not play nearly as well as they did in 2010. The stuff up front didn't help at all, sure, but their secondary in 2010 was devastating, and in 2011, was rather porous. Kinda the same thing with the Patriots, and specifically Devin McCourty.
drs23
Veteran
Ahh. Thanks for clearing that up for me b0ng, I must have lost touch with reality there for a moment.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
A good write-up on the Texans and their salary cap situation:
I think the part about us not having many glaring needs for free agency is a good explanation of how it is possible for us to keep Mario Williams, Chris Meyers and Arian Foster on the same roster in 2012. Food for thought.
I think the part about us not having many glaring needs for free agency is a good explanation of how it is possible for us to keep Mario Williams, Chris Meyers and Arian Foster on the same roster in 2012. Food for thought.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
the 31st ranking is in one category: Total Yards Allowed.
When a team has a high scoring, explosive offense, it is inevitable that they will give up a lot of yards for a number of reasons:
1. Due to quick-scoring, there are more posessions per game... giving the opposing team more chances to move the ball.
2. The other team is in a track meet and will give up on the run quickly, take more downfield chances, etc...
3. When the defense regularly has a big lead late in games, it willingly gives up chunks of yards via prevent defense.
The Packers defense did take a step back this year, but they were nowhere near one of the NFL's worst defenses. They just gave up a bunch of yards.
Oh I get it. So a team that scores alot of points does not have to play defense? No I still don't get it. We were averaging 27 PPG when Schaub went down and still did not give up a ton of yards. The reason teams give up a ton of yards is because they can't stop the other team from getting it (sounds like bad defense to me).
This all goes back to the point I made about Aaron Rodgers covering their weakness. In the Packers case it was poor offensive line and a weak defense.
badboy
Hall of Fame
I agree & he has already earned over $50million. I think another 50 is doable if constructed correctly. In fact I am already spending the saving on WR Bowe.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Great post and I think I agree on all points. Can you provide link for me to save as to who wrote it? Numbers match on Mario's cap with my sources. I have not thought about tagging Dreesen but that could happen if a deal isn't reached. His TDs/plays ratio is awesome.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3464116
You may or may not have to be a member to view the thread on that forum.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Thanks! Does not say where he got info and that is problem I have with John McClain's statements. He has said recently that Mario was paid $20 million in 2011 and that the Texans were over cap by same but no links. As I said, this is identical numbers so he may use same sources I have.
b0ng
Bad Hombre
I think he gets his numbers from sportrac unless there is a team specific cap site like NYJetscap.com.
GP
Go Texans!
But in all fairness, there was also that last part that is even more glaring (in my eyes):
I still (currently) do not think Mario will sign a Texans-friendly deal. And why should he? He stands taller right now than Reggie Bush and Vince Young ever will. He won that war, and he deservedly should get to stand at the top of the free agency mountain after the amount of dung that was flung at him over the years.
He has excellent run-stopping skills, he's capable of moving sideline to sideline on every play he's a part of, and his sack numbers are great. He has no need to back down on his asking price, and he needs to let his agent get him the best deal he can get...it's a symbiotic situation for them.
I think IF we keep Mario, I don't see how we can retain anymore than Foster, Myers, Rackers, and Weeks (the long snapper). Interesting, btw, that they have our punter as Brad Maynard. Dreessen might be a casualty due to our ability to locate and use TEs out of each draft. The other players on that list are JAGs in one way or another. Foster, Myers, Rackers, and Weeks represent "needs" that you can't ignore. The others are replaceable, even Derrick Ward.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
I thought you knew since you're so well versed in contracts. You can't redo a contract in the last yr. I guess if they wanted to extend mario for a yr and convert his salary into bonus to create space,they could have. Most times on redo contrat,teams normally take the guy with the freshest contract and add yrs and convert money. That's why smith and demeco got converted. Most teams go to the bank of the qb because they normally have the most money tied up.
leebigeztx
Keep it Movin!
Why do most posters think its all or nothing with mario? Maybe some of you need to call sirius radio and talk to pat kirwan or gil brandt. Just in case you can't or won't,let me give you something to chew on in regards to the cap ad capspace.
Capspace is basically double what you have in terms of cap charge for a player. His salary is what counts against the cap when the contract is written. If the player is terminated before the bonus is fufilled,then that's when teams have problems.
A lot of teams have been paying more up front and less on the back. The texans could give foster his 24m guarantee in the 1st 3 yrs(8m per) and if he falls off as rbs do,they can be off the hook with a 0 cap charge.
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I do not trust John McClain's information...
JLC reported the 2011 salary cap for ALL TEAMS. We were around $2 million UNDER the cap.
http://blogs.nfl.com/2011/08/29/updated-salary-cap-space-numbers-for-all-32-teams/
Furthermore, Article 11 Section 5(a) of the CBA states that ALL TEAMS must be UNDER the cap by August 5, 2011.
http://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf
...there is no no way we were EVER $20 million over the cap (let alone over the cap in ANY way).
So from this information we can say that we were about $2 miillion UNDER the cap for 2011. On top of that we have 17 FA's coming off the books.
http://www.sbnation.com/2011-nfl-free-agency/2012/2/7/2782415/2012-nfl-free-agents
Which means that we should have plenty of room to sign our key guys in the offseason.
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dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
If you are trying to say that the Texans are prohibited from signing Schaub, Duane Brown, Barwin, or any others entering the final year of their contract, to another contract that changes the framework of the final year of the existing contract - that's simply not true. Teams do that all the time.
If you are arguing something else, then you missed my point. The Texans could have gone to Mario before last season and extended his contract while dramatically reducing his cap number for 2011. They chose not to do that. I suggest it is because they were not convinced they wanted to invest long term money into him. I doubt a season spent on I.R. while the defense excelled without him has convinced the Texans to do what they weren't willing to do last year.