Mario movement rumors (MERGED) Signs with Buffalo $100 million

[thunderkyss]

I don't see how Mario could possibly get to the point where he would accept a deal that didn't average more than 10 million a year. If Charles freaking Johnson can get crazy money, I know Mario can. I'd love to see a quote of someone projecting the 5-6 million range though. lol... We will be lucky to get Foster for that much.

Given comparable deals around the league, which I have detailed in threads long ago, there is just no way Mario signs for less than 10 million average salary. Unless of course he changed his agent to Andre's cousin. I would gladly place a bet on that and take the over. Mario's no dummy, he's knows what he's worth.

He may very well sign a deal where he avgs $14M (that's what I'm expecting) but his cap number can be as low as $5M or $6M, I doubt it they'll be that drastic, but they could.

We could give him a $40M signing bonus & a $2M salary for the first 2 years. Sign him to a 7 year deal with a total value of $98M that's $14M a year. ($40M/7= $5.7M + $2M salary = $7.7M cap for the first 2 years)

 

[Dutchrudder]

He may very well sign a deal where he avgs $14M (that's what I'm expecting) but his cap number can be as low as $5M or $6M, I doubt it they'll be that drastic, but they could.

We could give him a $40M signing bonus & a $2M salary for the first 2 years. Sign him to a 7 year deal with a total value of $98M that's $14M a year. ($40M/7= $5.7M + $2M salary = $7.7M cap for the first 2 years)

That would be a terrible deal for the Texans. A guaranteed 5.7 mill cap hit per year over 7 years that can't be restructured would be worthless to the team. Signing bonuses are inflexible, and if the player is cut or traded, the remainder of the bonus is accelerated to the current year. There's no reason to give him a crazy signing bonus like that because it ties the GM's hands. Cutting him after year 4 would basically cost the team 17.1 million in capspace that year. That's too much money to have tied up in that sort of deal. Rick could easily draft a contract that does the exact same thing without using an absurdly large signing bonus to make the numbers.

There's no reason for the Texans to push his money out like that anyways. If Mario really cost 19 million against the cap this year, then there's plenty to sign him to a normal deal, and enough leftover to re-sign Foster, Myers, Brisiel and Dreessen. Sign him for an average of 12 a year and they still have at least 15 million to spend on those other guys (I think it's about 30-35 in total). Plus they can cut JJ and Lienart to have another 5-6 mill to spend. Also, the cap may go up to 125 this year, which means another 5 mill to spend. Plenty to work with if that's the case.

 

[thunderkyss]

Here's a link describing Charles Johnson's contract from 2011.

The deal could be worth up to $72 million, with $32 million guaranteed - including a $30 million signing bonus, according to a source close to Johnson.

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...panthers-lock-down-charles.html#storylink=cpy

6 years, $72M..... $12M yearly average.

Here we can see his reported cap hit.

Charles Johnson DE 4,000,000 5,000,000 - 9,000,000

The cap hit & avg salary are two totally different numbers. The amount of money they sign Mario should be none of our concern except for how it works out to his cap number in 2012.

 

[dalemurphy]

That would be a terrible deal for the Texans. A guaranteed 5.7 mill cap hit per year over 7 years that can't be restructured would be worthless to the team. Signing bonuses are inflexible, and if the player is cut or traded, the remainder of the bonus is accelerated to the current year. There's no reason to give him a crazy signing bonus like that because it ties the GM's hands. Cutting him after year 4 would basically cost the team 17.1 million in capspace that year. That's too much money to have tied up in that sort of deal. Rick could easily draft a contract that does the exact same thing without using an absurdly large signing bonus to make the numbers.

There's no reason for the Texans to push his money out like that anyways. If Mario really cost 19 million against the cap this year, then there's plenty to sign him to a normal deal, and enough leftover to re-sign Foster, Myers, Brisiel and Dreessen. Sign him for an average of 12 a year and they still have at least 15 million to spend on those other guys (I think it's about 30-35 in total). Plus they can cut JJ and Lienart to have another 5-6 mill to spend. Also, the cap may go up to 125 this year, which means another 5 mill to spend. Plenty to work with if that's the case.

Here's a question to ask yourself:

If Mario counted $19 million against the cap and the Texans struggled to find room to get Joseph and Manning signed, plus they were handcuffed from signing others (Vonta Leach, for instance)... Why didn't the Texans re-sign Mario to a long term deal last year and give themselves $10 million or more in cap room for the 2011 season? When you reach that answer, here's another question? If the Texans were unconvinced to sign Mario last year, do you think they are more likely to do it after experiencing so much success without him playing this season and after another I.R. stint?

 

[Dutchrudder]

Here's a link describing Charles Johnson's contract from 2011.

​

6 years, $72M..... $12M yearly average.

Here we can see his reported cap hit.

​

The cap hit & avg salary are two totally different numbers. The amount of money they sign Mario should be none of our concern except for how it works out to his cap number in 2012.

Do you really expect Mario to be worth 12-14 mill a year at the age of 32-33? I don't, which is why you want to have a cheaper out. For all we know he could tear his knee up in year 2 and end his career. Then you have a whopping 25+ mill against the cap when you release him. It's just safer to keep signing bonuses to a minimum and pay the guy more guaranteed money if they are willing to do it. Yearly roster bonuses are fine too because they only get paid if they player is still on the books. My point is that a signing bonus is basically guaranteed money that has to be paid out on average over the lifetime of the deal, whereas guaranteed money can come in all forms of the contract payments and is more flexible if you get into cap hell.

FYI, Peppers got a 6.5 mill signing bonus. Given that Mario got about 19 million last year, I would imagine he's not hurting for money right now.

 

[Dutchrudder]

Here's a question to ask yourself:

If Mario counted $19 million against the cap and the Texans struggled to find room to get Joseph and Manning signed, plus they were handcuffed from signing others (Vonta Leach, for instance)... Why didn't the Texans re-sign Mario to a long term deal last year and give themselves $10 million or more in cap room for the 2011 season? When you reach that answer, here's another question? If the Texans were unconvinced to sign Mario last year, do you think they are more likely to do it after experiencing so much success without him playing this season and after another I.R. stint?

I don't think they were sold on his conversion to OLB, but I think if we were still running a 4-3 he would have been extended. It's not so much that they don't expect production from him, but that they wanted to see him prove he could make the transition. I think he did that in the limited time we saw him. My concern is the financial side of it, but given McNair's recent comments, I'm comfortable in saying that Mario's cap-hit last year was 19 million. Given that number, there's plenty to work with this offseason and re-signing him shouldn't be an issue.

 

[dalemurphy]

Here's a link describing Charles Johnson's contract from 2011.

​

6 years, $72M..... $12M yearly average.

Here we can see his reported cap hit.

​

The cap hit & avg salary are two totally different numbers. The amount of money they sign Mario should be none of our concern except for how it works out to his cap number in 2012.

Charles Johnson's cap hit is $5 million each year before adding salary and bonuses to the equation. That $30 million signing bonus gets spread evenly throughout the six years. Also, as Dutchrudder mentioned, if the Panthers decided to cut Johnson after three years, the back end of that signing bonus would hit all at once. So, Johnson, despite no longer being on the team in the 4th season, would count $15 million against the cap.

This is why the signing bonuses are so important. Not only is it cash in hand, but the bonuses protect the player from getting cut. Only once the yearly salary exceeds the remainder of the prorated signing bonus can a team get cap relief by cutting the player.

Example: Let's say Johnson's salary for his 5th year is $5,000,000 and salary for his 6th year is $7,000,000.

Johnson's cap charge in year 5 if he's on the team = $10 mil ($5 mil signing bonus + $5 mil salary. If he's not on the team, the charge would also be $10 million for the 2 remaining years of prorated bonus... Therefore, the Panthers would be unlikely to cut him.

In year 6, cutting him would cost $5 million against the cap. But if they didn't cut him, he would count $12 mil against the cap ($5 mil signing bonus, $7 salary)...

Essentially, Johnson and his agent would look at this contract and realize it is probably only a 5 year deal, but also know there is no way the team would cut him before he completed 4 years, thereby essentially guaranteeing him the $30 mil in bonuses and also the 1st four years worth of salaries.

 

[thunderkyss]

I don't think they were sold on his conversion to OLB, but I think if we were still running a 4-3 he would have been extended. It's not so much that they don't expect production from him, but that they wanted to see him prove he could make the transition. I think he did that in the limited time we saw him. My concern is the financial side of it, but given McNair's recent comments, I'm comfortable in saying that Mario's cap-hit last year was 19 million. Given that number, there's plenty to work with this offseason and re-signing him shouldn't be an issue.

I'm thinking since his rookie contract had no bonus & back-loaded, he & his agent insisted on not restructuring. He felt he already earned that money.

 

[thunderkyss]

Charles Johnson's cap hit is $5 million each year before adding salary and bonuses to the equation. That $30 million signing bonus gets spread evenly throughout the six years. Also, as Dutchrudder mentioned, if the Panthers decided to cut Johnson after three years, the back end of that signing bonus would hit all at once. So, Johnson, despite no longer being on the team in the 4th season, would count $15 million against the cap.

This is why the signing bonuses are so important. Not only is it cash in hand, but the bonuses protect the player from getting cut. Only once the yearly salary exceeds the remainder of the prorated signing bonus can a team get cap relief by cutting the player.

I understand that.. It's just that I'm convinced Mario will be worth it. If he is not, we'll restructure at that time making him trade friendly.

 

[dalemurphy]

I don't think they were sold on his conversion to OLB, but I think if we were still running a 4-3 he would have been extended. It's not so much that they don't expect production from him, but that they wanted to see him prove he could make the transition. I think he did that in the limited time we saw him. My concern is the financial side of it, but given McNair's recent comments, I'm comfortable in saying that Mario's cap-hit last year was 19 million. Given that number, there's plenty to work with this offseason and re-signing him shouldn't be an issue.

Man, if that number really was $19 million... WOW! You're right, with that number the Texans would have more room that the originally reported $13.8 million, and the Texans may be more inclined to re-sign him. Still, it is awfully peculiar that they wouldn't have restructured that deal if he was in their plans, especially at that absurd number. I like your point about wanting to see if he could successfully convert. However, did they really have that much doubt about his ability to play 3-4 OLB or DE? I'm not convinced that 2011 was a referendum on his ability to play OLB. But, it's as good a theory as any.

 

[gafftop]

The real Title for this thread should NOW be "What is Mario going to do"
The Texans at this point have no control over the situation. They lost all say as soon as he was injured. The only scenario I see in the Texans keeping Mario is if after testing FA he finds nobody is willing to pay him big money and the Texans sign him at a reasonable rate. I really don't see that happening.

The Texans will survive without Mario. I just don't like the idea of letting him go and getting nothing in return. ( I know we get cap space and compensation pick but no additional compensation)

 

[Nawzer]

The more I think about it, the more I get the feeling that the Texans won't re-sign Mario Williams. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. I would like to have him back, but in all honesty I think he's had an inconsistent career. He has good numbers and he looks good in pads, and he's a tough guy but his inability to stay healthy is worrisome and his sacks come in bunches. I don't know if he's worth the money and I think the Texans will be better served spending that money elsewhere.

 

[thunderkyss]

The real Title for this thread should NOW be "What is Mario going to do"
The Texans at this point have no control over the situation. They lost all say as soon as he was injured. The only scenario I see in the Texans keeping Mario is if after testing FA he finds nobody is willing to pay him big money and the Texans sign him at a reasonable rate. I really don't see that happening.

No, the ball is clearly in the Texans court. They need to come to Mario with a reasonable offer. If their offer is close enough or over what Mario & his agent "thinks" they'll get in FA, then Mario has no reason to look elsewhere.

If we get to FA without signing Mario, it's over. If Rick Smith wants to keep Mario, he doesn't low-ball him. He comes with his best offer. If that's not good enough, that's not good enough.

& I for one would be fine with that.

If Mario comes back & say he was insulted with the offer, like Vonta Leech says, then I'm mad at Rick Smith. If he says we just didn't meet eye to eye, then Rick Smith did his job. I don't think we should overpay for Mario, but we should offer market value.

 

[dalemurphy]

If Mario comes back & say he was insulted with the offer, like Vonta Leech says, then I'm mad at Rick Smith. If he says we just didn't meet eye to eye, then Rick Smith did his job. I don't think we should overpay for Mario, but we should offer market value.

What if Rick Smith believes the market is wrong?
What if he believes he can create a stronger team allocating those resources differently?
Don't you think letting Vonta go made sense? Vonta was great. But, the Texans running game was excellent without him and the passing game was stronger without him. And, the Texans saved money by letting him go.

 

[thunderkyss]

What if Rick Smith believes the market is wrong?

After the money they threw at Dunta...... I doubt he'll be far from market value.


If Rick Smith thinks this team is better without Mario, I'll just have to wait & see. I won't accept a, "we couldn't afford him" answer.

 

[Goldensilence]

Here's a question to ask yourself:

If Mario counted $19 million against the cap and the Texans struggled to find room to get Joseph and Manning signed, plus they were handcuffed from signing others (Vonta Leach, for instance)... Why didn't the Texans re-sign Mario to a long term deal last year and give themselves $10 million or more in cap room for the 2011 season? When you reach that answer, here's another question? If the Texans were unconvinced to sign Mario last year, do you think they are more likely to do it after experiencing so much success without him playing this season and after another I.R. stint?

Bingo.

 

[thunderkyss]

Here's a question to ask yourself:

If Mario counted $19 million against the cap and the Texans struggled to find room to get Joseph and Manning signed, plus they were handcuffed from signing others (Vonta Leach, for instance)... Why didn't the Texans re-sign Mario to a long term deal last year and give themselves $10 million or more in cap room for the 2011 season? When you reach that answer, here's another question? If the Texans were unconvinced to sign Mario last year, do you think they are more likely to do it after experiencing so much success without him playing this season and after another I.R. stint?

Bingo.

Uh...... we lost Vonta Leach. That's all, couldn't have been too strapped.

 

[cbs1507]

Here's a question to ask yourself:

If Mario counted $19 million against the cap and the Texans struggled to find room to get Joseph and Manning signed, plus they were handcuffed from signing others (Vonta Leach, for instance)... Why didn't the Texans re-sign Mario to a long term deal last year and give themselves $10 million or more in cap room for the 2011 season? When you reach that answer, here's another question? If the Texans were unconvinced to sign Mario last year, do you think they are more likely to do it after experiencing so much success without him playing this season and after another I.R. stint?

For one, we change to a base 3-4 from a base 4-3 defense. But one thing people have yet to mention...LOCKOUT. Teams could not contact players nor could they enter team facilities. We didn't even have a collective bargaining agreement in the NFL. Oh yeah and 2010 was an uncapped year (no salary cap limit), so after the LOCKOUT we changed it to a hard cap ($120.375 million). That might explain why we could not get a deal done in the offseason. It's kind of hard to negotiate a deal when you cannot contact a player and you are uncertain of the salary cap situation.

 

[dalemurphy]

For one, we change to a base 3-4 from a base 4-3 defense. But one thing people have yet to mention...LOCKOUT. Teams could not contact players nor could they enter team facilities. We didn't even have a collective bargaining agreement in the NFL. Oh yeah and 2010 was an uncapped year (no salary cap limit), so after the LOCKOUT we changed it to a hard cap ($120.375 million). That might explain why we could not get a deal done in the offseason. It's kind of hard to negotiate a deal when you cannot contact a player and you are uncertain of the salary cap situation.

You are forgetting what happened after the lockout was over. In order to sign Joseph and Manning, the team had to renegotiate some contracts with existing players. The Texans didn't approach Mario during that time. It doesn't prove anything. It does indicate that the Texans were less than committed to the guy for the long term. Considering he ended another season on the I.R. while the Texans defense was great without him, I'm not sure that beating Dallas Clark a couple times to sack Kerry Collins in week one and playing well against Pittsburgh in week 4 is enough to change their minds.

 

[Mr teX]

You are forgetting what happened after the lockout was over. In order to sign Joseph and Manning, the team had to renegotiate some contracts with existing players. The Texans didn't approach Mario during that time. It doesn't prove anything. It does indicate that the Texans were less than committed to the guy for the long term. Considering he ended another season on the I.R. while the Texans defense was great without him, I'm not sure that beating Dallas Clark a couple times to sack Kerry Collins in week one and playing well against Pittsburgh in week 4 is enough to change their minds.

:kubepalm:

Like Mario had any reason to want to renegotiate in a year where he was due 18 million with a contract in which he didn't recieve a signing bonus. By your logic then i guess the Texans weren't committed to Foster, Meyers & Briesel either since they didn't work out anything long term with them in 2011...How about the Saints with their inability to resign Drew Brees going into the last year of his contract in 2011. Do you think they're committed to him?

You're a fool if you think that renegotiating contracts & re-signing players like Ja-ho-by & Rashard Butler is on the same level & takes the same kind of time and effort as renegotiating & re-signing players of Mario & Foster's ilk.

The Lockout was absoulutely apart of the reason they left Mario's contract alone....Mainly b/c everything was accelerated & b/c you couldn't contact players during that time as cbs1507 said. We didn't have the kind of time needed to sit with Mario & renegotiate something. Our secondary was historically bad in 2010 & we had to land 1 of the top cb's in FA...all focus was obviously turned towards that. Mario on the other hand was already in the fold for 2011. Why in the hell would you waste precious time renegotiating a deal with a guy who's already locked up & in the fold for the 2011? Our ability to sign Namdi or Joseph obviously wasn't dependent on resigning Mario to a more team friendly deal so why even deal with it at that point when:

1) you don't know how he'll do as a projected olb in Wade's system
2) you've got major priorities elsewhere in the secondary.
3) it takes 2 to tango & the player may not even want to renegotiate.....in that regard the only thing you can do is cut him.......not smart to cut your best pass rusher.

I guess by your logic we should be trying to renegotiate with schaub right now since he's going into the last year of his contract next year.

 

[cbs1507]

You are forgetting what happened after the lockout was over. In order to sign Joseph and Manning, the team had to renegotiate some contracts with existing players. The Texans didn't approach Mario during that time. It doesn't prove anything. It does indicate that the Texans were less than committed to the guy for the long term. Considering he ended another season on the I.R. while the Texans defense was great without him, I'm not sure that beating Dallas Clark a couple times to sack Kerry Collins in week one and playing well against Pittsburgh in week 4 is enough to change their minds.

We did sign Manning and Josph, but we also had the worst pass defense in NFL history. Also, I disagree that the Texans did not approach Mario at that time. First of all, they knew he probably would not sign an extension because he thought he could get more money by testing free agency. If there were any contract talks, it might have been somewhat similar to the Arian Foster situation (just did not see eye to eye on the numbers). You are still neglecting the fact that we barely had a month to prepare for the season due to the LOCKOUT. It was more feasible to sign FAs like Joseph and Manning to shore up the secondary of the league worse pass defense in NFL history than to actually come to terms (both sides have to agree to a contract) with Williams BEFORE the season started. Since they could not come to terms in such limited time, they probably thought it was best to put it off until the offseason.

BTW please get over that "He only beat a TE" argument, it's getting worn out and it's pathetic. Why don't you go look at film of Williams' "replacements" and go see how many "Dallas Clark's" (TE's) or weak players they had to beat to get there sacks.

 

[Jackie Chiles]

Deacon Jones thinks we should keep him and has some pretty high praise:

“I said that and I see you got your [tape recorder] out,” he said. “Well I am the best, there ain’t no damn question about that. I don’t know who No. 2 is. I’ll say he is potentially. He potentially can be the best in his era. He has the ability, he has the size, and all he needs is to get his head straight and make that commitment.

“They’d be stupid to let him go. He’s the No. 1 pick. Sure he’s had some injures. Everybody gets injuries. You can’t let a guy like that go. He’s a hell of a football player. If they do let him go, come to the Rams. Tell him don’t do nothing until he comes to the Rams.”

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/33773/deacon-jones-texans-cant-let-mario-go

 

[Rey]

You are forgetting what happened after the lockout was over. In order to sign Joseph and Manning, the team had to renegotiate some contracts with existing players. The Texans didn't approach Mario during that time. It doesn't prove anything. It does indicate that the Texans were less than committed to the guy for the long term. Considering he ended another season on the I.R. while the Texans defense was great without him, I'm not sure that beating Dallas Clark a couple times to sack Kerry Collins in week one and playing well against Pittsburgh in week 4 is enough to change their minds.

Generally higher profile players re-negotiate their deals when the contract is up.

If you are going to commit that much money to a player you want to have all the facts before hand. And that goes for both parties.

When Peyton Manning signed his contract I believe his contract was up at the time either.

For all we know Mario may have wanted to hit free agency to get a gauge of where his value truly is. It may have not completely been athe Texans' call.

And you have no idea if the Texans approached Mario at that time. You are talking out of your ass there. They could have talked and both parties decided to wait until the off-season. Or they could have talked and one part decided it was best to wait.

You don't know what is being discussed at Reliant.

Lots of guys play out the last year of their contract but for some reason, in this case, you have come to the conclusion that the team really didn't want the guy long term.

If the Texans don't sign Mario it will be because he cost too much. The end.

 

[dalemurphy]

:kubepalm:

Like Mario had any reason to want to renegotiate in a year where he was due 18 million with a contract in which he didn't recieve a signing bonus. By your logic then i guess the Texans weren't committed to Foster, Meyers & Briesel either since they didn't work out anything long term with them in 2011...How about the Saints with their inability to resign Drew Brees going into the last year of his contract in 2011. Do you think they're committed to him?

You're a fool if you think that renegotiating contracts & re-signing players like Ja-ho-by & Rashard Butler is on the same level & takes the same kind of time and effort as renegotiating & re-signing players of Mario & Foster's ilk.

The Lockout was absoulutely apart of the reason they left Mario's contract alone....Mainly b/c everything was accelerated & b/c you couldn't contact players during that time as cbs1507 said. We didn't have the kind of time needed to sit with Mario & renegotiate something. Our secondary was historically bad in 2010 & we had to land 1 of the top cb's in FA...all focus was obviously turned towards that. Mario on the other hand was already in the fold for 2011. Why in the hell would you waste precious time renegotiating a deal with a guy who's already locked up & in the fold for the 2011? Our ability to sign Namdi or Joseph obviously wasn't dependent on resigning Mario to a more team friendly deal so why even deal with it at that point when:

1) you don't know how he'll do as a projected olb in Wade's system
2) you've got major priorities elsewhere in the secondary.
3) it takes 2 to tango & the player may not even want to renegotiate.....in that regard the only thing you can do is cut him.......not smart to cut your best pass rusher.

I guess by your logic we should be trying to renegotiate with schaub right now since he's going into the last year of his contract next year.

First of all, I was a proponent of the Mario draft pick, and I have hated Vince Young since about 2003. I certainly did want the Texans to draft Vince.

Second, here's how you restructure Mario (this is a very common way to handle these situations that is mutually beneficial to both parties):

Sign him to a six year deal and role that $18 million into the signing bonus. That way, it would get spread out and not hit the cap all at once. For instance, instead of giving him a 5 year $90 million dollar deal after the 2011 season, they could have worked out a 6 year $108 million deal, while giving him a signing bonus around $35 million.

Therefore, instead of a cap hit of $18 million, the cap hit would be around $9 or $10 million, depending on how they set up his yearly salary over the 6 years.

That they didn't do this indicates the organization was not convinced they wanted him long term.

 

[dalemurphy]

BTW please get over that "He only beat a TE" argument, it's getting worn out and it's pathetic. Why don't you go look at film of Williams' "replacements" and go see how many "Dallas Clark's" (TE's) or weak players they had to beat to get there sacks.

Mario has no history of playing well against elite tackles. If you are considering paying a guy elite money, it would be nice to have evidence he can outplay the best linemen in the game. People are eager to quote Mario's 5 sacks in 5 games to prove he was going to have a great year under Wade. What I saw was the same player I've watched for the past three years. He finishes well against lesser players and disappears against the good ones... and then he gets hurt.

 

[Mr teX]

First of all, I was a proponent of the Mario draft pick, and I have hated Vince Young since about 2003. I certainly did want the Texans to draft Vince.

Second, here's how you restructure Mario (this is a very common way to handle these situations that is mutually beneficial to both parties):

Wrong, simply b/c "these situations" implies that we have a lockout situation every year & that's not the case.

Sign him to a six year deal and role that $18 million into the signing bonus. That way, it would get spread out and not hit the cap all at once. For instance, instead of giving him a 5 year $90 million dollar deal after the 2011 season, they could have worked out a 6 year $108 million deal, while giving him a signing bonus around $35 million.

Except you're leaving out 1 small detail....MARIO HAS TO AGREE TO IT!!! & tell me why would he agree to a deal that only nets him 17 more million when he could easily take the 18 million he's due to make in 2011, turn around & test the FA market in 2012 & net more in terms of guaranteed money & signing bonuses in the long run? that's the primary reason guys in his position want to test the FA market to begin with. What's more is that why would the texans give him that kind of a deal when they don't know how he projects in Wade's system as an OLB?



Therefore, instead of a cap hit of $18 million, the cap hit would be around $9 or $10 million, depending on how they set up his yearly salary over the 6 years.

That they didn't do this indicates the organization was not convinced they wanted him long term.

That proves nothing man other than how delusional you have become regarding this topic.

 

[Mr teX]

Mario has no history of playing well against elite tackles. If you are considering paying a guy elite money, it would be nice to have evidence he can outplay the best linemen in the game. People are eager to quote Mario's 5 sacks in 5 games to prove he was going to have a great year under Wade. What I saw was the same player I've watched for the past three years. He finishes well against lesser players and disappears against the good ones... and then he gets hurt.

Please...Freeney & Mathis have padded their sack stats against us & the likes of Seth Wand, Jimmy Herndon & Ephraim "turnstile" Salaam for years. I didn't here you or anyone else rambling on about how less of pass rusher they were b/c of that.

Demarcus Ware had 19.5 sacks this year...Go look at the cowboys schedule and see how many of those sacks were against tackles are considered to be elite......Going further, go ask a cowboys fan how relevant those sacks were in terms of them winning the game.

You have been turned away with facts at every possible angle you try to attack this topic. You should just quit while you're behind......before you get lapped.

 

[gafftop]

No, the ball is clearly in the Texans court. They need to come to Mario with a reasonable offer. If their offer is close enough or over what Mario & his agent "thinks" they'll get in FA, then Mario has no reason to look elsewhere.

If we get to FA without signing Mario, it's over. If Rick Smith wants to keep Mario, he doesn't low-ball him. He comes with his best offer. If that's not good enough, that's not good enough.

& I for one would be fine with that.

If Mario comes back & say he was insulted with the offer, like Vonta Leech says, then I'm mad at Rick Smith. If he says we just didn't meet eye to eye, then Rick Smith did his job. I don't think we should overpay for Mario, but we should offer market value.

Something tells me they may just let Mario test FA with no offer. I think any offer the Texans make will not be to Mario's liking before he gets offers. Plus I think Mario has come this far that he wants to test FA.

They may think best bet is to let him test and then try to match if possible.

Yeah and I think he is gone also, because it only takes ONE team to make a deal.

 

[dalemurphy]

Please...Freeney & Mathis have padded their sack stats against us & the likes of Seth Wand, Jimmy Herndon & Ephraim "turnstile" Salaam for years. I didn't here you or anyone else rambling on about how less of pass rusher they were b/c of that.

Demarcus Ware had 19.5 sacks this year...Go look at the cowboys schedule and see how many of those sacks were against tackles are considered to be elite.......

The Colts never asked me my opinion on signing them to a $100 million contract. The Colts and Cowboys are great examples, though, of what happens to teams that are too cap heavy with the cap. They sign their "stars" and hope everyone stays healthy. Sometimes, like in Ware's case, they have great years and it still isn't enough to make the team successful. I don't want a top-heavy team like that... particularly when Mario has never had a season anywhere near as productive as those three have had in the past.

 

[Mr teX]

The Colts never asked me my opinion on signing them to a $100 million contract. The Colts and Cowboys are great examples, though, of what happens to teams that are too cap heavy with the cap. They sign their "stars" and hope everyone stays healthy. Sometimes, like in Ware's case, they have great years and it still isn't enough to make the team successful. I don't want a top-heavy team like that... particularly when Mario has never had a season anywhere near as productive as those three have had in the past.

sighs....i'll just stop responding to things like the bolded b/c it's clear you have it out for the guy regardless of the facts and what comes out the side of your mouth. & If being cap heavy means 10 years of division dominance, 2 sb appearances and numerous other playoff appearances between the 2 clubs, sign me up please.

 

[amazing80]

With a rule stating you must be under the cap AT ALL TIMES, a Tag Price of $23m and only $19m in cap room, how do you propose you can tag and keep Mario? Sure you could chop away and find $4m to get there to get a T&T in place, but to actually keep him and at that price seems extremely far fetched. Not to mention he has two guys behind him that represent youth and the future.

I think getting a very solid #2 WR, a starting FS, and a draft pick for a guy who you can't keep anyway is worth considering. Laurent Robinson opposite of Andre Johnson with Schaub throwing and Foster keeping D's honest is a great offense for years and years to come.

How does everyone keep coming up with 22-23 million? Im no genius but isnt 120% of 16 million only like 19.2?

http://www.rotoworld.com/headlines/nfl/226977/franchise-tag-prohibitive-for-mario-williams

Williams earned $18 million in 2011. The mandatory franchise-tag raise would push his 2012 salary to a prohibitive $22.9 million, leaving Williams with quite a bit of leverage in contract talks.

Where did you get he only got $16m in 2011?

He did not earn no 18 or 19 million,

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-texans/mario-williams/

http://www.examiner.com/houston-tex...ber-shines-a-light-on-mario-williams-contract

Mario Williams is in the final year of his rookie deal and will be paid a base salary of nearly $14 million this year, all of which counts on the cap.

http://www.numeroten.com/top10/sports/files/top-10-highest-paid-nfl-players-of-2011.html

5. Mario Williams - 2011-2012 Salary $15,150,000 - Base Salary $13,800,000 - Signing Bonus $0 - Other Bonuses $1,350,000 - Contract 6 years / $54,000,000 - Signing Bonus 6 years / $0 - Guaranteed Money $26,500,000 - Last Year of Contract 2011 - Age 26 - Team Houston Texans - Position Defensive End

Numerous sites saying he is MUCH lower than that, I would say is around 15 million not even 16 million....

Each one confirms he made 13.8 Million in BASE, plus a 1.350 million bonus, bringing it to a total of 15.150 Million.

This is my post on another site, just to hopefully clear up this 22-23 million dollar franchise tag garbage that people (Houston chronicle) are spewing....the first and 2nd post are pretty irrelevant but the last one is money....Either way, its too much to tag him....hopefully we reach or deal or move on

 

[ThaShark316]

I like how ol' dale brings up TEs about Mario when Connor Barwin's last sack of the season = VS a TE.

Regardless of that, dude lost when he called Mario Williams for a game he didn't even play.

 

[amazing80]

After the money they threw at Dunta...... I doubt he'll be far from market value.


If Rick Smith thinks this team is better without Mario, I'll just have to wait & see. I won't accept a, "we couldn't afford him" answer.

What do you mean you can't accept that we couldn't afford him? Thats CRAZY talk, having the money for him and then costing ourselves players down the road because we over paid an over hyped player is nuts. We may have the money in the bank for him, but it doesn't justify spending it on him. Thats like spending 50 bucks at Chili's for yourself one night after work and then having to feed your family the rest of the week on 10 bucks. When you SHOULD have spent 60 on groceries and fed your entire family. Don't get greedy and spoil yourself when there is no need to.

 

[thunderkyss]

In order to sign Joseph and Manning, the team had to renegotiate some contracts with existing players. The Texans didn't approach Mario during that time.

Got a link?

 

[cbs1507]

The Colts never asked me my opinion on signing them to a $100 million contract. The Colts and Cowboys are great examples, though, of what happens to teams that are too cap heavy with the cap. They sign their "stars" and hope everyone stays healthy. Sometimes, like in Ware's case, they have great years and it still isn't enough to make the team successful. I don't want a top-heavy team like that... particularly when Mario has never had a season anywhere near as productive as those three have had in the past.

I wasn't aware the Texans asked for your opinion about signing Mario (got a link?). I have some kind of hunch that your opinion is not shared by management.

 

[thunderkyss]

What do you mean you can't accept that we couldn't afford him? Thats CRAZY talk, having the money for him and then costing ourselves players down the road because we over paid an over hyped player is nuts. We may have the money in the bank for him, but it doesn't justify spending it on him. Thats like spending 50 bucks at Chili's for yourself one night after work and then having to feed your family the rest of the week on 10 bucks. When you SHOULD have spent 60 on groceries and fed your entire family. Don't get greedy and spoil yourself when there is no need to.

Just because we sign Mario to a fair market deal, does not mean that we won't be able to feed the rest of the family.

I understand where dalemurphy

is coming from. I didn't like Dunta Robinson & no amount of money would have been "reasonable" to me. The Texans franchised him... should have used that money to get a real corner.

I think Mario is worth $12-$14M/yr, dalemurphy does not.... nothing I can say (obviously) will change his mind. I just wish he'd stop with the, "if we sign Mario, we won't be able to afford x player" that's not true, or at least we don't have enough information to reach that conclusion. It is his opinion. Would be fine if he presented it as his opinion, but he's not...... same as you.

I can feed the fam fine on $10 a week.

 

[amazing80]

Just because we sign Mario to a fair market deal, does not mean that we won't be able to feed the rest of the family.

I understand where dalemurphy

is coming from. I didn't like Dunta Robinson & no amount of money would have been "reasonable" to me. The Texans franchised him... should have used that money to get a real corner.

I think Mario is worth $12-$14M/yr, dalemurphy does not.... nothing I can say (obviously) will change his mind. I just wish he'd stop with the, "if we sign Mario, we won't be able to afford x player" that's not true, or at least we don't have enough information to reach that conclusion. It is his opinion. Would be fine if he presented it as his opinion, but he's not...... same as you.

I can feed the fam fine on $10 a week.

Seriously, I wanna know what you can feed your family on 10 bucks a week?

 

[thunderkyss]

Seriously, I wanna know what you can feed your family on 10 bucks a week?

Ramen noodles, with chopped lunchmeat, & tea.


.

 

[mussop]

lol Nice try but no. Mario Williams is our top priority because Foster is a RESTRICTED FA. Maybe some people should go look up the rules for RESTRICTED FA, but essentially it will be easier for us to resign Foster than Williams because Williams is UNRESTRICTED. I don't think anyone doubt Foster will be back next year. If Foster was our #1 priority he would have a deal already. #1 priority is to get a deal done with Williams before March 13, so we can know what kind of cap we'll have to work with for everybody else.

http://www.foxsportshouston.com/01/...-for-Texan/landing_texans.html?blockID=649138

hmm!

 

[badboy]

http://www.foxsportshouston.com/01/...-for-Texan/landing_texans.html?blockID=649138

hmm!

I have posted that McNair will take personal involvement in negotiations with Williams. He and Foster and Myers will be re-signed and I am almost as sure about Briesel.

 

[DocBar]

Just because we sign Mario to a fair market deal, does not mean that we won't be able to feed the rest of the family.

I understand where dalemurphy

is coming from. I didn't like Dunta Robinson & no amount of money would have been "reasonable" to me. The Texans franchised him... should have used that money to get a real corner.

I think Mario is worth $12-$14M/yr, dalemurphy does not.... nothing I can say (obviously) will change his mind. I just wish he'd stop with the, "if we sign Mario, we won't be able to afford x player" that's not true, or at least we don't have enough information to reach that conclusion. It is his opinion. Would be fine if he presented it as his opinion, but he's not...... same as you.

I can feed the fam fine on $10 a week.

WOW!! Full on frontal homerist man-crush!! I wholeheartedly disagree with this. I think Mario is worth $10M/yr. at most.

 

[Blake]

Pay that main his muhney.

 

[thunderkyss]

WOW!! Full on frontal homerist man-crush!! I wholeheartedly disagree with this. I think Mario is worth $10M/yr. at most.

Me willing to pay Mario $12-$14 M is no more homerist man-crush than wanting to pay him $10M is haterade. He is better most of the guys who are getting paid $12+

That's my evaluation. Not yours? that's fine.

 

[DocBar]

Me willing to pay Mario $12-$14 M is no more homerist man-crush than wanting to pay him $10M is haterade. He is better most of the guys who are getting paid $12+
That's my evaluation. Not yours? that's fine.

Name one.

 

[Blake]

Name one.

Paul Soliai
Mike Vick
Mark Sanchez
Gerald McCoy
Sam Bradford
Jason Smith

To name a few.

 

[ThaShark316]

C'mon Texans, re-up with Mario so I can make a "dalemurphy LOST" sig.

 

[DocBar]

Paul Soliai
Mike Vick
Mark Sanchez
Gerald McCoy
Sam Bradford
Jason Smith

To name a few.

I was yanking TK's chain, not yours.

 

[ObsiWan]

Ramen noodles, with chopped lunchmeat, & tea.


.

you better go real light on the lunchmeat for ten bucks

 

[cbs1507]

Paul Soliai
Mike Vick
Mark Sanchez
Gerald McCoy
Sam Bradford
Jason Smith

To name a few.

Let's just go DE

Charles Johnson
Paul Soliai
Tyson Johnson
Dwight Freeney (you may think not but Mario is a better all around player. Colts have always sucked against the run and their DEs are major reason why "Built to play with the lead". They rush the passer effectively when they are up but are not good against the run. Mario does both well.)

The range for elite pass rushers is $10-$14 million. Most of the salaries for elite players fall between 11-13 million range. I would expect something like that. If you consider that his salary was reported as $18 million last year. I'd say that 11-13 million (even 14 or 15 average salary) is well worth it. They would clearly have to manipulate the contract according to expected future salary cap (meaning backload the higher portions) but I think it's doable.

 

[badboy]

Positive note: Texans will be better in 2012 with or without Mario.