Vinny
shiny happy fan
dude, you obviously don't have all your facts. Read the grand jury's findings before you rant
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1824121&postcount=182
Keep Texans Talk Google Ad Free!
Venmo Tip Jar | Paypal Tip Jar
Thanks for your support! 🍺😎👍
Penn State Child Molestation Case
- Thread starter srrono
- Start date
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1824121&postcount=182
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
^ I can't begin to counter all your points GP because I wouldn't be able to finish the post, but calling the police about this would have been easy enough for JoPA to do. Telling the AD and expecting him to carry it out isn't enough (he may be involved), this was child molestation. There is absolutely no excuse for it, nor the coverup, nor ignoring it. He is an accessory to the crime after that point.
GP
Go Texans!
So this thing might be huge.
Donors, maybe even certain school officials, and maybe even various local or state officials. I mean, it could be a VAST assortment of people who have power, money, or both power AND money.
I'm sort of piecing together the history of all this stuff. Am I correct when I say that this has been an ongoing situation that for some reason authorities have not been able to nail down with concrete proof; enough to press forward with serious charges until now?
Vinny
shiny happy fan
just read the link I gave you. The Grand Jury's findings are summarized as far as Paterno's role and the link at the bottom is the fact find after a THREE year investigation. These are not allegations, these are facts.
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2011/1107/espn_e_Sandusky-Grand-Jury-Presentment.pdf
That DA also prosecuted violent criminals. I'm not confidant of a tie in of the disappearance to Penn State yet, but I've been surprised before.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
well, DA's across the country prosecute violent criminals all the time and they don't disappear. I'd say that the scope of this tragedy is more complex and has more money behind it than anything that DA ever investigated.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Hervoyel
BUENO!
I read the report and had many of the same reservations that GP did on initially hearing about this. The report changed my mind and position.
Joe Paterno is a legend. He's the guy in charge of the poster-program for an NCAA football team. He's not a cheater, he's not a liar, he's not any of that. He's a role model the likes of which most of us never get close to. He's a perfect figurehead and record setting coach. As far the NCAA football world goes he's the closest thing to the perfect example of a coach/program on earth. It's impossible to separate him from the the school. They are one and the same and they are perfect and above reproach.
That's the general consensus of him with many people before this comes out. I bought into the idea that he was this walks-on-water type too and couldn't bring myself to believe that he knew this was going on and didn't do everything in his power to clean this up. He didn't though. He failed to live up to the myth and living up to the myth in this case should have been easy to do.
Has McQueary been fired too? He should be. I see all these people along the chain of events and every step of the way I don't understand why it never ended with "...and then I went to the police" They all seem like their overwhelming interest was protecting Penn State and I can't for the life of me understand why they didn't just know that the way you protect Penn State is you stop what's happening, expose the bastard, and see that he's put in jail. Sure, your school has a scandal to deal with in the short term but then everyone who sees that you did this knows that not only does Penn State talk the talk but they walk the walk as well. You protect the school by doing the right thing.
He's probably got the single biggest cult of personality in sports but it's all gotta go. The taint on this entire program is enormous and seems to be getting bigger every day. I understand what the kids think because it's a simplified version of what many people (myself included) thought but you can't hold that ground because eventually you have to ask "why didn't someone go to the police?" and Paterno can't be who he's supposed to be if he also failed that test.
Turn over ever single stone and salt the earth when you're done.
GP
Go Texans!
I worked in a school for four years, and we were trained that if we suspected child abuse among any of our students...we were to tell SCHOOL OFFICIALS first and foremost.
At that point, you are technically not guilty of covering it up. You told your school official, and it's now his/her job to go forward and alert authorities.
If everybody ran to the authorities without consulting their superior first...you can't begin to imagine the havoc it could create in all job environments that involve minors (kids). The allegation is a serious thing in of itself, and you have to channel it through administration so that the proper people (administrators) are doing what their job entails; Administrative duties such as following up on what a teacher, or coach, has reported as POSSIBLE child abuse.
If Paterno went to a school official, it's not as if he can also go and lead the charge to bring down Sandusky himself. Sounds good, when we're sitting here playing the What If? game, but like I said: This thing is not as simple as we'd like it to be.
Unless Paterno has more hidden away than what we know of through the current media reports, I am having a hard time passing down blame to him for the actions of people above him (administrators) or formerly connected to him (Sandusky). Like I said, he had to go--it was the smart play--but I won't sit here and carve the guy up as if he didn't do enough.
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Joe Pa knew about this years ago, and still allowed Sandusky to bring young boys to the Penn State campus, lockerrooms and football games. He didn't do a damn thing about it. There is no excuse, if the AD didn't do anything about it, then at that point you take it into your own damn hands, unless of course you don't have a problem with child molestation or have a 'deal' with him. There is no absolving him in this situation.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
sounds like you have been brainwashed by the corporate comrades. If someone sees anyone raping your kid in the anus you better hope they have the integrity to call the police instead of following some bullshit corporate protocol. You haven't read the links I gave you. I know because I just gave it to you and you have been too busy writing contrary rants like you usually do.
GP
Go Texans!
Yeah, I suppose I can't adequately divide up my time (at the moment) to read all of what's out there. Plus, I didn't see any of this stuff when it broke on TV...woke up this morning and read the thread and am playing catch-up.
That's why I prefaced my post with lots of phrases that show I am not claiming to have read the multitude of reports. I'm sure it could be an all-day ordeal to try and read it all right now. I'm home-schooling my kids right now, and just peeking in on the board every now and then.
Will read the linked items you posted. Just having a hard time thinking this mess would have been a lot less messy had Joe Paterno gone Pelican Brief or the Lincoln Lawyer on what is turning out to be a gigantic ring of pedophilia whackos.
If he went to PSU, the old guy might have just thought he did enough and was done with it (in his own mind). BUT...am going to grab some coffee and read up on it when I can. Will be a lot later today, though.
Sad day to be a PSU alumn, current student, parent of a PSU student, etc. It's mind boggling to consider the residue that will linger off this ordeal.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
I made it easy for you to catch up...hence the link. Grow up and stop commenting until you educate yourself at least a smidgen before you rant (we've already discussed much of what you have written about in this thread). It takes less time to read the cliffs notes shortcuts I gave you than to rant like a fool without the basic facts. Otherwise you are just cluttering up this thread.
HTown2ATX
TexansMetalhead
The DA who was originally looking into this that dissappeared, was a topic on J&R last night on 610.
Now, you'll have to look up whatever links they had found online as I don't have them, but apparently police found his hard drive from his laptop that had all the evidence in a river but could not recover anything from it and later when they searched his home pc were google searches for "how to wreck a hard drive" and more.
There are apparently sightings of this guy now and again too in different states.
So, if you want to all Unsolved Mysteries on it, sounds like he was paid to disappear. Also, now that we hear there may have been a whole ring involved.....this actually sounds plausable.
Now, you'll have to look up whatever links they had found online as I don't have them, but apparently police found his hard drive from his laptop that had all the evidence in a river but could not recover anything from it and later when they searched his home pc were google searches for "how to wreck a hard drive" and more.
There are apparently sightings of this guy now and again too in different states.
So, if you want to all Unsolved Mysteries on it, sounds like he was paid to disappear. Also, now that we hear there may have been a whole ring involved.....this actually sounds plausable.
GP
Go Texans!
I read the above post. I don't have time to read 23 pages of the PDF you linked to.
I know you're not happy with the Pass The Buck Situation, but it is what it is. In places where children are interacting with adults, such as schools, you are to tell your authority (an administrator) of possible indecencies that you suspect are going on with children and adults at your place of work.
Telling me I am brainwashed for trusting the person I report to, to trust that they would do the proper thing and report it to the authorities, is a slap to my face. By your reasoningm we can trust NOBODY. We must take the law into our own hands and get the police involved.
All I want to know, out of that 23 pages of PDF is this: DID JOE PATERNO PERSONALLY CATCH OR SEE SANDUSKY RAPING A KID IN A SHOWER? From what I know, and I'm going on TV reports, someone told Paterno and Paterno then told an official about it. He was not passing the buck, he was doing a normal thing by getting the proper school officials involved and trying to get some backup so that perhaps the school could find the young man who witnessed the indecency and ask HIM about it, personally.
I don't appreciate your hostility to me over this. Hell, one of the reasons I am home schooling my kids is because I believe I can raise them better than a stranger can. So give me an ounce of credit for protectig my kids from the creeps who are out there preying on kids. Don't you sit there and type **** and act like I would ever condone anal rape of MY kids and that I am brainwashed if I think reporting it to a school official, and not reporting it to cops, is not enough. That was uncalled for. Period.
People have been known to make **** up all the time, just to get back at somebody they have a beef with. In this scenario, Paterno (again, from what I know off the TV reports) said he heard the rumor and he passed it to an official.
As far as allowing Sandusky to continue campus visits, I'm at a loss on that one and it doesn't look good at all. But who anointed Paterno with the decision making power to say he can or cannot come to campus anymore? Maybe Sandusky was being protected by higher powers at PSU???? You can only do so much, which is why he should have quit a long time ago...something I talked about earlier that was a potential way out for JP.
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
The time you took making that long post you could have read it. He linked a post, a pretty short one, not a 23 page pdf.
Sorry man, Paterno turned a blind eye for over a decade, he should have reported it to the cops, end of story. He should see a little jail time for not doing so, not that it is going to happen.
As for the bolded, calling the cops is not taking the law in your own hands dude. And rumor? Eye-witness account is not rumor, multiple allegations from multiple victims and independent witnesses is not rumor, testifying under oath to the Grand Jury is NOT rumor.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Here we go .....
1998 ... Sandusky gets accused of touching child
1999 .... Paterno tells Sandusky he's through . No other team contacts him even though he's a top notch DC .
2002 ... Sandusky is caught having anal sex with a 10 year old boy in the PSU shower . Mcqueary (sp) sees this and calls his dad . He and his dad meet with Paterno about this . It's gray what Joe knows but he tells his superior . It dies for two weeks and they meet .
2005 ... Sandusky gets caught again in the PSU shower pinning a boy against the wall giving him a ******* . They tell Sandusky not to bring anymore boys around .
two weeks ago ... Sandusky was working out at PSU .
It's probably not all in here but it's close .
Vinny
shiny happy fan
I don't care because it is rude to jump in and rehash questions already answered earlier in the thread. It's rude to jump into a conversation others have had for days without some real basic, basic information and throw down long mind-numbing rants that make this already long thread harder to read. You guys with your own personal agendas and your attention seeking posts need to step back and give a little mb courtesy for those of us sharing new information.
GP
Go Texans!
Example:
I live next door to a person. I heard a kid screaming for his life, and crying like his arm was being cut off or something. So I called CPS.
CPS shows up, the kid has a bruise under his left eye. So now the kid was taken away because the math adds up.
Too bad, for that person, that his kid had been in a fight at school earlier that day...and the noise I heard was a movie playing and a secene where someone was screaming and a kid was crying in the background.
A person's kid was taken away because I called CPS on a whim. I thought I was doing the right thing. It took several days for the person to have the school contact CPS and clarify that the boy had indeed been in a fight earlier that day, but the damage is done--A kid was removed from a home because I freaked out over something.
That's the quickest example I can give. I have said over and over that Joe Paterno, according to reports, went to a superior and reported what was told to him. What else do you do? Vigilantism? It's not vigilantism to report thinigs to the cops, but this situation got away from a lot of people. The only thing he could have done, in retrospect, was quit and walk away because of maybe thinking PSU and its power players were never going to do anything of great consequence to address it properly, legally.
For that, "Yeah, Joe Paterno messed up." But Like I said, I believe in his world the colors turned to gray in a hurry...next up, gameplanning for their next opponent on Saturday. We can analayze this nine ways to Sunday, I just don't see how Paterno himself is guilty of the acts by Sandusky. I feel like Paterno is guilty by mere association.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
It's like safety guy at work watching you do something that could get you killed . Afterward he walks up to you and corrects you or tell your supervisor . That's what his job entails but if it was so dangerous why didn't he stop me . He let me take a risk that I never should have taken .
So again, you want come with unrelated examples, instead of taking even a a couple of minutes to find out why people have specific opinions about this subject. None are denying your examples, but you are denying the specifics of the current conversation. That's we are and should be hostile to you, because are not respectful to us.
You have the right to express an opinion and we in trun have right to evaluate and in turn tell you why your opionion is meaningless.
Vinny
shiny happy fan
A Grad student comes to your home with his Father and tells you he hears "rhythmic slapping noises" coming from the shower, then investigates and then see's your linebacker coach plowing some 10 year old boy in the anus, spread eagle in your shower, and you think its ok to just "tell your boss". This is a morally vacant position, no way around it. I'm sorry that I know this about you now. Some of you guys are so quick to destroy your credibility and reputation around here just to hear yourself talk...amazes me.
GP
Go Texans!
It's rude to make blanket statements about me and what I would do about my kid if she were raped, just to try and put me in my place over this.
We can argue, you can say I'm a dumbass for not readin a 23-page legal document, whatever. But don't get personal with bringing my kids into it. I would never dare to go there with you and your loved ones, I will never sit here and allow you to get away with that against me. NEVER.
You crossed a line because you wanted to put me in my place, and you thought the quickest route to that destination would be to expose me as being somebody who passes the buck with other kids but would never want someone to pass the buck if it were an indecency with MY kids. Tell me how I'm wrong in this analysis here, Vinny. You crossed a line.
I'm sorry I didn't read your links. I'm sorry I jumped into the discussion. How that sort of error on my behalf allows you to be rude to the point of going where you went with it??? Wow.
I'll leave now. I've made my statement about how Paterno is not nearly the villains he's being made out to be. The anger should be channeled toward the real criminals, IMO.
HTown2ATX
TexansMetalhead
GP.....c'mon man.
No one is saying Joe Pa touched these kids. But he would have to be a moron to have the report he got and years later still see Sandusky walking around PSU campus. Even in his old age Joe Pa would have realized "Hey, don't men that touch boys usually go to jail?
I should probably follow up on this."He failed and probably enable years more of this abuse. Plus now we are getting reports of basically a kiddie brothel.
Dude, c'mon man. Not trying to attack you so much as I am suprised to see you take this position is all.
Unfortunately I'm still on the run all day at work so I don't have time to expand much and have to just keep doing drive by hits.....
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
If it takes a whole village to raise one child then the village turned their back .
HTown2ATX
TexansMetalhead
toronto
Hall of Fame
I'm pretty much here too. It's exhausting, depressing and does nothing but anger me every time I get anywhere near this subject...and the nature of my job means I've had to work this story non-stop.
My only wish? That they had cancelled PSU's game this Saturday. Even without Paterno, its going to be a 106,000 person pep rally for that old geezer, and now IMO? That pathetic morally bankrupt old geezer.
Think I'm done here unless something new pisses me off. :vincepalm:
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
Calling the cops in response to a crime is the opposite of vigilantism. I realize you can continue to make bad examples to try and refute this, but that says more about your willingness to twist reality to back your rants than anything else.
Passing the buck and letting the matter drop when it is clear nothing was done is enabling the crime.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Lots of anger expressed here by most on this subject. Even toward each other.
I agree about cancelling the game, but we know that will not happen. $
Maybe someone could start a national movement to black ball the TV broadcast.
I wish I knew how.
Public service announcement:
Since this is all over the news and conversations now, kids are hearing about it. It might be good time to reinforce with your kids that it isn't just the creepy stranger, but also the trusted adult who might have bad intentions. Balancing between too much trust, looking for warning signs, and outright paranoia is a little tricky...
Since this is all over the news and conversations now, kids are hearing about it. It might be good time to reinforce with your kids that it isn't just the creepy stranger, but also the trusted adult who might have bad intentions. Balancing between too much trust, looking for warning signs, and outright paranoia is a little tricky...
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
Great post, I meant to put up something similiar yesterday.
My wife and took this as a reminder to set our 6 year old down and remind her that no one no matter who they are, should not be touching her inappropriately and to report these actions if they occur no matter what the person might say or threaten.
Everyone knows about stranger danger, they even teach it to kids at school, but as you said often times you read about people that are not strangers at all committing these acts.
HTown2ATX
TexansMetalhead
Exactly. My daughter is only 5, so she probably is oblivious to all this right now. But I may just have a talk with her next weekend when I have her.
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
I think we first told our 6 year old when she was 4 and do it about once a year. The first thing we did was ask her "who is allowed to touch you in your private parts". I smiled so big when she got the answer perfect, she knew off the top of her head.
Can't be too careful and IMHO 5 years old is old enough to understand. My oldest daughter is 14 so this has been drummed in her head for years. I have 16 month old that will get the same lesson as soon as I know she understands.
HTown2ATX
TexansMetalhead
Yeah, I'm sure she's old enough for the talk, she's a damn smart kid, I just haven't had it with her yet. The oblivious thing was more about the news as I have no idea whether or not her mom and step dad are watching and talking about this or what as far as the PSU case.
But yeah, this case made me decide it's time to have the talk with her.
srrono
All Pro
Tony Dungys thoughts
Dungy's Diary
Accountability and Penn State
I have, like most football fans, been following the events as they have unfolded at Penn State regarding Coach Joe Paterno and the football program. Having known Coach Paterno and Jerry Sandusky, the coach who has been charged in the allegations, I am shocked at what has been alleged to have taken place. I have always had the utmost respect for Coach Paterno and the way things have been run at Penn State. I have played with, and coached, many players from there and they all have nothing but incredible things to say about him.
That being said, though, I believe the University had no other choice in this matter than to accept his resignation or force him to step down. I think they made the right move in ousting the President of the University as well. When something of this magnitude happens I think everyone in a leadership position is responsible. Whether it is directly your fault or not, it has taken place under your watch and there is no way that public confidence could ever be regained without a change in leadership.
I also think this is a reminder to all of us that we have a responsibility to hold each other accountable, no matter what. It doesnt matter if it is a subordinate, a co-worker or your boss. If something is taking place that is wrong, we have to address it and make sure action is taken. Im sure there are a lot of people at Penn State who are saying in hindsight, I wish I had said somethingI wish I had done something. When it involves something as serious as child abuse, we cant afford to assume that someone else will handle it. We have to act. Its just sad that it appears so many children were hurt as we were learning this lesson.
http://www.allprodad.com/dungy/2011/11/10/accountability-and-penn-state/
Dungy's Diary
Accountability and Penn State
I have, like most football fans, been following the events as they have unfolded at Penn State regarding Coach Joe Paterno and the football program. Having known Coach Paterno and Jerry Sandusky, the coach who has been charged in the allegations, I am shocked at what has been alleged to have taken place. I have always had the utmost respect for Coach Paterno and the way things have been run at Penn State. I have played with, and coached, many players from there and they all have nothing but incredible things to say about him.
That being said, though, I believe the University had no other choice in this matter than to accept his resignation or force him to step down. I think they made the right move in ousting the President of the University as well. When something of this magnitude happens I think everyone in a leadership position is responsible. Whether it is directly your fault or not, it has taken place under your watch and there is no way that public confidence could ever be regained without a change in leadership.
I also think this is a reminder to all of us that we have a responsibility to hold each other accountable, no matter what. It doesnt matter if it is a subordinate, a co-worker or your boss. If something is taking place that is wrong, we have to address it and make sure action is taken. Im sure there are a lot of people at Penn State who are saying in hindsight, I wish I had said somethingI wish I had done something. When it involves something as serious as child abuse, we cant afford to assume that someone else will handle it. We have to act. Its just sad that it appears so many children were hurt as we were learning this lesson.
http://www.allprodad.com/dungy/2011/11/10/accountability-and-penn-state/
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
Students rioting over Jo Pa's firing:
http://mediagallery.usatoday.com/S165982#.Trv0bNskYYg.facebook
http://mediagallery.usatoday.com/S165982#.Trv0bNskYYg.facebook
Dutchrudder
Hall of Fame
The Second Mile's website: http://www.thesecondmile.org/welcome.php
Anyone recognize any of these names? There are a lot of people affiliated with this charity.
The Honorary members are quite famous too:
Anyone recognize any of these names? There are a lot of people affiliated with this charity.
The Honorary members are quite famous too:
One bad decision after another here. This guy should have been shown the door. He saw it going on and turned around and let it finish. He didn't call the cops. He told his boss the next day*.
*and this puts him in the clear, apparently.
======
One report said the boy saw him witness the incident. What do you think that kid thought when a should-have-been-rescuer turned his back and walked away? I'm sure it wasn't, "Good, he's probably going to go tell JoPa".
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Another viewpoint on that subject .
http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/128591/only_a_coward_sees_a
chicagotexan2
Easterby = Little Finger/Cal = Fredo Corleone
Students rioting over Jo Pa's firing:
http://mediagallery.usatoday.com/S165982#.Trv0bNskYYg.facebook
Rally if not sponsored by then definately supported by NAMBLA.
What a bunch of effing ahole moronic schItheads.
HTown2ATX
TexansMetalhead
Exactly. I'm sure there are some that believe violence is never the answer even in a situation like this....which I can't even begin to address....but that aside, even if this guy was afraid he'd get his ass kicked or maybe believed "violence wasn't the answer" or his pee-pee hurt, or whatever the case may be, he should have done something..ANYTHING.more than he did....whether that was to make noise, bang on something while calling the cops, yell, throw something...friggin anything!!!
If I saw this guy get taken advantage of now the way he watched that boy, I'd prbably just smoke a cig and laugh and ask, how's it feel?