Kareem Jackson's plight.

[Rey]

Rookie season:

In six games Peterson had an INT on a hail mary pass at the end of the half where the QB threw into a crowd of 3 defenders.
One guy batted the ball away into the hand of the fourth defender (Peterson) who wasn't on anybody.

In six games, Peterson had 3 PDs.

In six games, KJ had an INT that was definitely more legitimate than Peterson can only dream off.

In six games, KJ had 5 PDs.

76, if you would start a team an take Kareem over Peterson then be my guest. But I see you conviently did not mention the other two corners in my post.

And what does a return have anything to do with playing CB and coverage?

Nothing. Did I say it did?

My point is that he provides value in that area therefore that is one more reason I'd take him over Kareem.

 

[76Texan]

76, if you would start a team an take Kareem over Peterson then be my guest. But I see you conviently did not mention the other two corners in my post.



Nothing. Did I say it did?

My point is that he provides value in that area therefore that is one more reason I'd take him over Kareem.

So what's wrong with the point that Jackson is a much better tackler than Peterson?

You don't think a miss-tackle can lead to a TD or a long gain?
Well, guess what, Peterson's poor tackling had led to 2 TDs for the opponents.

No, I don't intend to leave out the other two corners; I had already talked about them.
They WERE NOT THROWN INTO THE FIRE. McCourty especially!

 

[76Texan]

76, if you would start a team an take Kareem over Peterson then be my guest.

My point is that he provides value in that area therefore that is one more reason I'd take him over Kareem.

I would trade down to pick Jackson and another player.

Or use the additional pick to trade back up to get a better pick at #2

If I like big corner who can also run (but not as fast as Peterson) I would trade down to take Jimmy Smith (he's currently injured) and another pick in similar fashion.

The point is in the last draft there wasn't a CB that I would rather have.
No, I still say I don't take McCourty over Jackson.

 

[thunderkyss]

Child Please.

Did you just go Ocho on me?

Go back and read what I've said about KJ and other corners.

I know exactly what 76 is "trying to do" and I am not buying it.

All corners make mistakes. All corners get beat. Most rookie corners thrown into the fire have ugly moments.

But big time players make big time plays, or at least flash some playmaking ability. Kareem can be solid at times, but he does not make plays.

Now you can put all the stock you want to into playing the run well and making tackles, but Dunta did the same exact thing. If I had to choose, I'd rather have a corner who could cover very well but couldn't tackle rather than vice versa.

I agree with what you're saying. If we had a corner that can cover & make big time plays... I'd agree with you. Allen is not that guy. If I've got to chose between two guys that can't cover, one can tackle & the other can get an occasional INT, I'm going with the guy who can tackle.

Besides, I started watching guys like Kj & Mario because some weren't happy with their production as rookies & I wanted to know if these guys had what it takes to live up to their draft status.

Without question, I don't care who we had as corners last year, with the pass rush, safeties, & schemes we used, Nnamdi, Revis, & McCourty would look like Kj, Quin, & McCain.

So imo, when I look at Kj, no doubt in my mind he can play at the NFL level. Will he ever be a top 10 corner? Probably not. But he can play as a #2, no doubt in my mind. I believe I understand exactly why Wade is playing him so much. I think he is the future at #2 CB.

What I don't understand is why is Wade playing Allen at all? Wade wasn't part of last years debacle, he could bring Brandon Harris in to play that same role Allen is playing & he'd probably do as well. Then at least I (as a fan) would think he's got the best interest of the team... looking for that #2 CB, on his mind.

Now, I don't like to judge players without taking their environment into consideration (pass rush, overall defensive success, key players around them), but despite whatever mistakes McCourty or Joe Haden made, they made plays.

& they had the benefit of a much better defense than what Kj had.... remember, we were making history.

Also, I'm taking Peterson all day every day over KJ. In six games he has an INT and a return TD.

That's not the point, we never had the opportunity to take Petterson. Petterson is much more athletically gifted. At the same time, he's having the same struggles Kj has.. & that is the point.

Who said that a rookie is supposed to come in and be shut down?

It gets difficult keeping individual posters straight when discussing something like this. If it wasn't you, there are plenty on this board expecting Kj to play like a 7 year vet..... but they don't expect Allen to. Strange if you ask me.

You and 76 both need to pay attention because I have said it like a million times that getting beat is not something exclusive to KJ and that is not my problem with him.

He rarely gets his hands on balls (PD's or INT's) even though teams throw his way all the time and as a first round CB that is no bueno.

I get it. Your reasons for wanting to start Allen make perfect sense. If Allen was getting more playing time I would assume that would be the reason. I just don't agree with your assessment of Allen.

Which brings me back to my original point: when all you do is point out screw ups by other players and explain away bad plays by "your guy" it makes your analysis less credible IMO. You are not presenting the full spectrum of what is going on.

And that is JMO on the subject.

But that's not all he's done.

He started talking about Kareem only. Then all these other names got brought into it. He showed examples of those guys... it's a very thorough thread.

 

[STEEL BLUE TEXANS]

Asomugha had ZERO Int in his rookie campaign.

In fact, he didn't have an INT until his 50th game in the league!

Nnamdi was a safety in college making the position change to corner. He rarely played his first 2 seasons. His second season starting he had 8 INTs and from then on teams avoided throwing his way.

 

[76Texan]

Nhamdi was a safety in college making the position change to corner. He rarely played his first 2 seasons. His second season starting he had 8 INTs and from then on teams avoided throwing his way.

Thanks for the clarification about the conversion.

He still played in 15 games his first year and started one at CB.

He played in all 16 games in his second year and started seven.

He started all 16 games in his third year (2005).

In 06, he registered his first INT in the second game (49th game, not 50th).

Some journalist posted videos of his INTs in 2006; I had mentioned that before in a thread. There was either safety help or he was playing underneath coverage on all the INTs that were shown.

When I study the Raiders lat year, they were in cover 2 a lot.
Asomugha + safety = not somewhere a QB wants to go.

That he was a shut down CB that can cover half of the field by himself is a myth.

 

[STEEL BLUE TEXANS]

2. No, I didn't leave out the PI call. Reread my posts.
Even though I feel that it was an iffy call.
I don't think a receiver cut back across a DB's face should get a PI call; if anything, it's probably should have been incidental contact.
If KJ had turned his head to the inside (he doesn't even have to look all the way back at the QB), I think the call could have easily gone the other way around.
A PI is when the CB impedes the receiver natural direction in the route.
Heck, if every time a CB trails and the receiver just has to stop or turn toward the receiver while slowing down so that the DB runs into him to get a PI call; they would have done it all day long!

KJ was on the receivers right shoulder. He then stumbles, reaches out and grabs the receiver and ends up on the receivers left shoulder. Donnie Avery didn't stop or turn anywhere.

 

[coon]

This issue is getting beaten to death. Personally i see it somewhere in between. Anyone who gets thrown in his first year after jumping a level in competition the way Kareem was will struggle. Especially if they are put on a defense with no help from the other levels. I think he is doing is job fine. 76 is right that he isn't nearly as bad as many on this board are saying. The precedent for Kareem being so bad has been set by this board and alot of people are piling on plays that were not his fault. The defense is one solid unit, every player on every level has to do there job or someone will look bad, it just so happens he has become our personal lightning rod. Rey your right in the he is not a play maker. Probably never will be he just doesn't seem to process the plays fast enough to react correctly. Maybe when the game slows down for him, and it's painfully obvious it hasn't he will. Some say he is too slow, not true. His technique is bad, his hips are almost always to tight, and to often he opens to the wrong shoulder, but these things are correctable. That being said i think being under Saban they should have been fixed by now and he may just never get it. I don't start Jason Allen, But unless he shows major improvement by the end of the year I don't just settle for Kareem

 

[STEEL BLUE TEXANS]

KJ on the receivers right shoulder

KJ stumbles and grabs Donnie Avery on the shoulderpad and waist to keep himself from falling

KJ ends up to the left of the receiver after regaining his balance

Donnie Avery didn't cut back across KJ's face.

 

[STEEL BLUE TEXANS]

The receiver who beat Allen was #17 D. Williams.
The ball actually bounced off William's shoulder pad; it was not a good throw at all.

And this is a perfectly thrown ball

 

[Rey]

And this is a perfectly thrown ball

Yeah, that's pretty good coverage by Allen on that play.

 

[leebigeztx]

Thanks for the clarification about the conversion.

He still played in 15 games his first year and started one at CB.

He played in all 16 games in his second year and started seven.

He started all 16 games in his third year (2005).

In 06, he registered his first INT in the second game (49th game, not 50th).

Some journalist posted videos of his INTs in 2006; I had mentioned that before in a thread. There was either safety help or he was playing underneath coverage on all the INTs that were shown.

When I study the Raiders lat year, they were in cover 2 a lot.
Asomugha + safety = not somewhere a QB wants to go.

That he was a shut down CB that can cover half of the field by himself is a myth.

The myth is you watched the raiders and saw cover 2 last. They ran alot, mostly 0 coverage last year. Thats why nmandi gave up a 40% completion last year. Its ok to back up kj, but to say the raiders had safety over the top is not true. This year, they run different schemes on the back end because they dont have the talent, mainly nmandi.

 

[76Texan]

The myth is you watched the raiders and saw cover 2 last. They ran alot, mostly 0 coverage last year. Thats why nmandi gave up a 40% completion last year. Its ok to back up kj, but to say the raiders had safety over the top is not true. This year, they run different schemes on the back end because they dont have the talent, mainly nmandi.

No Leebig, I watched at least 8 or 9 games!

I still have them and I can go back anytime.

 

[76Texan]

Jay, you need to take better screen shots than that!
You need a sequence.
That way you can see that on the side line route by the receiver, the ball was thrown way way way way way way to the inside.
If the receiver wants to get to the ball, he HAS TO cut back across KJ's face.
I need to go to dinner now, but I will post those screen shots.

On the seam route over Allen, one shot is all you need to see that the ball was on the receiver's shoulder pad.
It's amazing how one can say that it was a good pass.
I will post the sequence later as well.

 

[thunderkyss]

And this is a perfectly thrown ball

Looks pretty good to me.

I don't think Allen had much to do with that incompletion though. The ball hit 17 in the hands, then the helmet, then bounced away entirely before Allen gets his hand on that arm.

If the receiver had good hands, that's still beat, that's still a completion.

So that's not really good coverage.

 

[EllisUnit]

Jay, you need to take better screen shots than that!
You need a sequence.
That way you can see that on the side line route by the receiver, the ball was thrown way way way way way way to the inside.
If the receiver wants to get to the ball, he HAS TO cut back across KJ's face.
I need to go to dinner now, but I will post those screen shots.

On the seam route over Allen, one shot is all you need to see that the ball was on the receiver's shoulder pad.
It's amazing how one can say that it was a good pass.
I will post the sequence later as well.

a 50 yard bomb that hits a wr in the shoulder pad is a good pass. If allen hadnt been all over him he would of caught it, allen made perfect timing to get there. You should get off of K.Js jock strap. in the off season your argument was ok at best not it is getting to the point of pathetic.

You take situations and turn them to your liking to make K.J look good and allen look bad. You have been doing this since day 1. We like facts around here and not assumptions. So please quit assuming.

K.J will never be a good CB. And hell J. Allen may not be either, but i sure as hell take allen over K.J at this point.

 

[EllisUnit]

Infantrycak is talking about comparing our #2 to other #2s....

I think 76Texans has always been more focused on our First round CB compared to other 1st round CBs & using guys like Kyle Wilson & McCourtey makes too much sense, since we passed on them to get "the most NFL ready" of the bunch.

Hayden was taken much higher, Petterson was also regarded a much higher prospect. He contrast Kj to those guys to say, "This is what you get with a rookie CB, regardless how good a prospect he is" just to demonstrate how difficult the position is to learn.

He's taken screen shots of veterans playing similar defensive schemes to demonstrate KJ doing exactly what he was supposed to be doing, and others showing him actually doing it better than some of the ve... ts

It's not so much that 76 is tearing apart other players game, but contrasting what they do to what KJ does for comparison purposes.

But "Kj sucks" appears to be the only thing you want to hear.

This is all great and dandy. But he is still slow at doing it, still dont have great instincts while doing it, and often gets burned more than most CB do while doing it. I can drive in NASCAR just like the Pros, but be 4 laps slower, but hey i'm doing it how i'm supposed to do, right. So does that make me good, our comparable to Dale Earnhardt Jr,,,,,ummmmm probably not !

 

[leebigeztx]

No Leebig, I watched at least 8 or 9 games!

I still have them and I can go back anytime.

make sure you have your glasses on when you watch them also cause i didnt see it.

 

[Rey]

Looks pretty good to me.

I don't think Allen had much to do with that incompletion though. The ball hit 17 in the hands, then the helmet, then bounced away entirely before Allen gets his hand on that arm.

If the receiver had good hands, that's still beat, that's still a completion.

So that's not really good coverage.

TK, do you think it is easier or harder to catch a ball when someone is breathing down your neck?

Allen had a lot to do with the pass not being completed and to say otherwise is not looking at the situation honestly.

If the receiver is out there wide open without a defender right there he probably makes that catch easily. If the receiver even has another step or two on Allen he probably makes that catch easily.

When you have good coverage it (1) puts more pressure on the QB to make a great throw, (2) makes the receiver a little antsy when going for the catch.

By Allen grabbing the receivers arm he prevented the receiver from taking a second stab at the ball as well....Also, had the receiver actually grabbed the ball, Allen was in good position to knock it out...

If Kareem had made that play though I have a feeling you guys would have pointed that stuff out though.

But he doesn't make those plays on deep balls. He is best at covering short and intermediate stuff. I actually like his coverage on routes like that, but on deep stuff Allen is just better.

 

[thunderkyss]

If Kareem had made that play though I have a feeling you guys would have pointed that stuff out though.

I don't think Kj is capable of making that play. If Kj did, I'd probably call it a success..... for him. It would be an improvement.

For someone who is supposed to know how to play.. not so much.

But he doesn't make those plays on deep balls. He is best at covering short and intermediate stuff. I actually like his coverage on routes like that, but on deep stuff Allen is just better.

Agree

 

[Rey]

I don't think Kj is capable of making that play. If Kj did, I'd probably call it a success..... for him. It would be an improvement.

For someone who is supposed to know how to play.. not so much.



Agree

TK, Honestly I kind of like the Allen/KJ thing going on at corner...It's grown on me...Kinda like a wart, but dammit it's my wart...

I think they are pushing each other. KJ definitely deserves to get the majority of the playing time though. I don't like players that get manhandled and display poor tackiling techniques and Allen is all of that. But he does serve a purpose.

If KJ could grow into a better all around corner I'd be smitten because the dude can tackle and he is a tough summabeech.

That said, at the end of the year we should know whether we need to look at CB's in the first three rounds by the end of this year. I'm hoping that we won't feel like it's a priority though.

That's where I'm at right now with the CB2 situation...I just don't like having my head pee'd on and to be told it's raining...

 

[thunderkyss]

That said, at the end of the year we should know whether we need to look at CB's in the first three rounds by the end of this year. I'm hoping that we won't feel like it's a priority though.

That's where I'm at right now with the CB2 situation...I just don't like having my head pee'd on and to be told it's raining...

I agree, other than we also have Brandon Harris, a 2nd round pick who should be getting in on this conversation.

I do think Allen & Jackson has something going on, & that's the only reason I can imagine Allen is playing & not Harris.

But soon (we're almost at the halfway mark) we need to see Harris, unless they are sold on Kareem, before we can decide where CB is on our draft needs.

I say we, but they're probably seeing enough of him in practice to "know" how he'll do on the field.


PS: I've got nothing against Allen, but I know he's not the future.

 

[Rey]

Nothing against kareem's play today but I just want to reiterate Allen getting his hands on balls and the fact that i like the combo of the two.

 

[fiasco west]

I think the entire secondary deserves props today. Although it was against a pretty bad passing game. I even saw Kareem play the ball and break up a pass. Baby steps.

 

[EllisUnit]

I think the entire secondary deserves props today. Although it was against a pretty bad passing game. I even saw Kareem play the ball and break up a pass. Baby steps.

also saw him get beat for a td.

 

[fiasco west]

also saw him get beat for a td.

Yeah but that happens even to the best of them.

 

[EllisUnit]

Yeah but that happens even to the best of them.

i agree but i take allens 3 ints over jackson knocking down a few passes.

 

[AcresHomesTexan]

Nothing against kareem's play today but I just want to reiterate Allen getting his hands on balls and the fact that i like the combo of the two.

Wade's usage seems to be minimizing the negatives each of them have. Also, it reflects that neither is currently a true starting CB.

 

[Rey]

also saw him get beat for a td.

I've seen Allen literally beat by brandon Marshall for a td.

I'm not saying Kareem is the cutest girl in the room, but he's not the ugliest.

Kareem nor Allen are 10's, but together they are about a 7.

If they're both 3.5's or ones a 4 and the other is a three is non significant at this point.

That position isn't a gaping hole right now and that's all that matters really.

 

[EllisUnit]

I've seen Allen literally beat by brandon Marshall for a td.

I'm not saying Kareem is the cutest girl in the room, but he's not the ugliest.

Kareem nor Allen are 10's, but together they are about a 7.

i've also seen KJ get beat by a no name WR and TOURCHED for 2 long TDs by him. You know who i'm talking about.

 

[fiasco west]

i agree but i take allens 3 ints over jackson knocking down a few passes.

I really don't see Allen as being any better than Kareem. Just that Kareem is younger and still has a ceiling. Allen does have 3 INTs though, the 3rd one was a great play.

The first one was a hail mary INT. Hey if Kareem looks for the ball and tries to make a play on it like he did today he may find himself picking off a pass too.

 

[House of Pain]

The way I see it (which I'm sure has been said in this thread a few times) is that Allen is better in coverage, and KJ is a better tackler and plays the run better.

 

[EllisUnit]

I really don't see Allen as being any better than Kareem. Just that Kareem is younger and still has a ceiling. Allen does have 3 INTs though, the 3rd one was a great play.

The first one was a hail mary INT. Hey if Kareem looks for the ball and tries to make a play on it like he did today he may find himself picking off a pass too.

Thats the key in his second season he still dont do this consistently. And he still gets beat, thank god for our half descent pass rush other wise K.J would still be getting abused.

 

[fiasco west]

Thats the key in his second season he still dont do this consistently. And he still gets beat, thank god for our half descent pass rush other wise K.J would still be getting abused.

Couldn't you say the same thing about Allen? He's not exactly over there shutting guys down.

 

[House of Pain]

Thats the key in his second season he still dont do this consistently. And he still gets beat, thank god for our half descent pass rush other wise K.J would still be getting abused.

Although I think KJ is a below average CB at this moment, I think the same could be said about just about all CBs on teams with a good pass rush.

 

[EllisUnit]

Couldn't you say the same thing about Allen? He's not exactly over there shutting guys down.

he still did have a boat load of ints last season, and regardless of what some say. He didnt get beat near as bad as KJ did last season.

 

[fiasco west]

he still did have a boat load of ints last season, and regardless of what some say. He didnt get beat near as bad as KJ did last season.

Really everyone sucked on the secondary last year. I'm not going to say anyone played better than anyone else. You can also blame the lack of pass rush as well, poor safety play...I don't know why everyone wants to point to Kareem and say "Thats it!" Even Quinn was moved from CB to Safety. Also of course Kareem didn't do well last season, he was a rookie CB thrown into the fire.

The difference is we have a Defensive coordinator that knows what he's doing and is putting these guys in better positions. Which is probably why we have seen little of Harris this season compared to how Kareem was just thrown out there.

 

[EllisUnit]

Really everyone sucked on the secondary last year. I'm not going to say anyone played better than anyone else. Even Quinn was moved from CB to Safety. Also of course Kareem didn't do well last season, he was a rookie CB thrown into the fire.

The difference is we have a Defensive coordinator that knows what he's doing and is putting these guys in better positions. Which is probably why we have seen little of Harris this season compared to how Kareem was just thrown out there.

I still have seen NOTHING from KJ this season that shows me he will one day be a good CB. He lacks good CB speed, only thing he can do is tackle, but there are more important traits to being a CB than tackling.

 

[eriadoc]

The way I see it (which I'm sure has been said in this thread a few times) is that Allen is better in coverage, and KJ is a better tackler and plays the run better.

If you're going to have a corner be weaker in one than the other, it better be run support in today's league. Jason Allen is no great shakes, but at least he's in on plays and getting involved. Kareem is so frequently trailing plays and/or out of the frame that it's just frustrating to watch.

 

[fiasco west]

I still have seen NOTHING from KJ this season that shows me he will one day be a good CB. He lacks good CB speed, only thing he can do is tackle, but there are more important traits to being a CB than tackling.

Honestly if he just looks for the ball he'd make a lot more plays. Speed was never his strength it was always him being physical. I'd say he did that today, today he looked like the 'NFL Ready' corner we were suppose to draft.

I don't know if i'd say he's never did anything good. That's just not true.

 

[EllisUnit]

Honestly if he just looks for the ball he'd make a lot more plays. Speed was never his strength it was always him being physical. I'd say he did that today, today he looked like the 'NFL Ready' corner we were suppose to draft.

I don't know if i'd say he's never did anything good. That's just not true.

i just said i have seen nothing from him. besides causing 1 fumble, no play of his sticks out to me this season. Waht about jojo, and allen they have plays that stick out. but not him

 

[LikeMike]

The thing about KJ: he is improving. He was thrown into an impossible situation last year - and that abuse must`ve hurt his self esteem. The first half of last season was ugly, the second half was bad... the first half of this season is decent. He still seems lost sometimes, but not nearly as bad, as he used to. Right now he is a slightly below average #2CB. But he is getting better. I don`t think he will ever be a shutdown #1CB. But I am pretty sure, that he will develope into a pretty good CB that will earn about 4-6 million a year.

Allen is the flashier player that looks more comfortable on the field. With him you know what you get: agile WR will beat him, he will miss some tackles, but most of the time he will have decent coverage and come up with a cople of INTs in the season. That`s alright for a #2CB - but I don`t see him getting better.

So, just keep doing the time sharing at #2CB, keep em both fresh and let KJ learn a thing or two from JoJo. He will grab the job full time by the start of next season...

 

[fiasco west]

i just said i have seen nothing from him. besides causing 1 fumble, no play of his sticks out to me this season. Waht about jojo, and allen they have plays that stick out. but not him

I think when Kareem has a good play it goes largely unnoticed because he's not getting a INT. He's played good coverage defense before, in fact it happens a lot more than people think around here. Just that it doesn't result in a INT or deflection.

I'm not going to change your opinion. This is how I feel about Kareem though. I think when it is said and done he'll be a better CB than Allen is right now. As for how good he can be, I have no idea. But he's not as bad as he was his rookie year where he was getting put on a island than getting torched and put on highlight reels every week seemingly.

 

[EllisUnit]

The thing about KJ: he is improving. He was thrown into an impossible situation last year - and that abuse must`ve hurt his self esteem. The first half of last season was ugly, the second half was bad... the first half of this season is decent. He still seems lost sometimes, but not nearly as bad, as he used to. Right now he is a slightly below average #2CB. But he is getting better. I don`t think he will ever be a shutdown #1CB. But I am pretty sure, that he will develope into a pretty good CB that will earn about 4-6 million a year.

Allen is the flashier player that looks more comfortable on the field. With him you know what you get: agile WR will beat him, he will miss some tackles, but most of the time he will have decent coverage and come up with a cople of INTs in the season. That`s alright for a #2CB - but I don`t see him getting better.

So, just keep doing the time sharing at #2CB, keep em both fresh and let KJ learn a thing or two from JoJo. He will grab the job full time by the start of next season...

ummmm sometimes, but speed will beat KJ every time. Atleast allen has the ability to run stride for stride with a faster WR.

 

[fiasco west]

The thing about KJ: he is improving. He was thrown into an impossible situation last year - and that abuse must`ve hurt his self esteem. The first half of last season was ugly, the second half was bad... the first half of this season is decent. He still seems lost sometimes, but not nearly as bad, as he used to. Right now he is a slightly below average #2CB. But he is getting better. I don`t think he will ever be a shutdown #1CB. But I am pretty sure, that he will develope into a pretty good CB that will earn about 4-6 million a year.

Allen is the flashier player that looks more comfortable on the field. With him you know what you get: agile WR will beat him, he will miss some tackles, but most of the time he will have decent coverage and come up with a cople of INTs in the season. That`s alright for a #2CB - but I don`t see him getting better.

So, just keep doing the time sharing at #2CB, keep em both fresh and let KJ learn a thing or two from JoJo. He will grab the job full time by the start of next season...

This is pretty much how I feel about the situation. Except that I believe Kareem can be better than Allen. What we are doing now works for us any ways, splitting time at CB#2.

He's playing a position that has proven to take some time to pick up. It's important that he shows improvement and he has. Either he gets incrementally better and become a solid #2 or #3 Corner which is highly likely...or it suddenly clicks and he becomes a player that we will enjoy watching. He still has that ceiling that Allen just doesn't have any more.

Also that what we are doing now isn't really destroying the team. We still have a top defense and can afford his growing pains...right now at least.

 

[Wolf]

We played against one of the worse passing offenses in the league

 

[Carr Bombed]

Jason Allen is a better corner than Kareem Jackson....both get beat, but one makes plays. This thread just need to fade away. Kareem Jackson is not going to pan out as a 1st round pick, he is what he is. A player just doesn't get faster after he's been in the league for multiple years and Kareem Jackson will never posses "closing speed".

 

[fiasco west]

Jason Allen is a better corner than Kareem Jackson....both get beat, but one makes plays. This thread just need to fade away. Kareem Jackson is not going to pan out as a 1st round pick, he is what he is. A player just doesn't get faster after he's been in the league for multiple years and Kareem Jackson will never posses "closing speed".

Playing DB in the NFL is not all about speed. Otherwise Desean Jackson would be a elite WR because he'd be faster than most guys across from him.

Edit: Also that even guys that come in with speed struggle. It's a lot more than just having speed. It's about knowing routes and being physical when you can.

 

[EllisUnit]

Playing DB in the NFL is not all about speed. Otherwise Desean Jackson would be a elite WR because he'd be faster than most guys across from him.

Edit: Also that even guys that come in with speed struggle. It's a lot more than just having speed. It's about knowing routes and being physical when you can.

Difference. WRs have to run route, fake in and go out, all a CB has to do is follow and have speed to keep up. i'm sorry but speed is the main component to a good CB. Aso and Reevis arent slow, neither was aaron glenn, our D-Rob, our JoJo. Name 1 good slow cb ????

 

[thunderkyss]

Nothing against kareem's play today but I just want to reiterate Allen getting his hands on balls and the fact that i like the combo of the two.

That was a quality INT by Allen. I don't know how Kubiak can justify not giving Allen the starting job. Like you said, it's not that he is necessarily better, but he gets his hands on the ball.

I don't know if that's the message you want to send to Kj, to start taking chances; jumping routes & stuff, but it's not like Allen is taking any.... he's playing good coverage (at times) & taking advantage of opportunity when it presents itself.

Jason Allen plays special teams.. I can see Kareem coming in after Kick-off returns, but if I were Kubiak, Allen would "start" maybe not get any more snaps, but he should be "named" the "starter"