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Put the pink soap away for good: Kubiak extended until 2012
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Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I have no problem with seeing intangibles. You have no problem seeing them on other teams, but can't seem to see them on your own team.
The Jets went 9-7 two years in a row, but you have no problem seeing the 2009 team as a better team. If that same question was asked of me, I would tell you the difference is their defense. Stats are for losers, but if you look at those stats, defensively they are quantifiably better this year, than they were last year.
what did they do differently from that point in the season?
don't put words in my mouth.
What opportunity did they seize?
that Baltimore lost week 16, and that's the only reason they are in the play-offs? How is that any different than us needing them to lose week 16 for us to get into the play-offs?
they finished 2-4 in their division, one game better, so it's not like they killed in their division.
I'm just asking why there is such a double standard.
9-7= Ryans is a football God
9-7= Kubiak is football Scum
2-4 in the division= Ryans is a football God
1-5 in the division= Kubiak is football scum
#1 over-all defense #20 offense= Ryans is a football God
#13 over-all defense #4 offense= Kubiak is football Scum
5-3 over the last half of the season= Turned things around for Ryans
4-4 over the last half of the season= F@#4'd it all to hell for Kubiak
Don't forget that Indy gave them a game, otherwise they would have gone 4-4 same as us, it's not that Rex Ryan outsmarted, or out coached anybody week 16. He was beat & outmatched that game, he had no chance of winning.
Either Kubiak is making this team better, or Rex Ryan is not making that team better. I don't see how anyone can see it any other way.
Do you believe either team, the NYJets or the KC Chiefs were better because of Herman Edwards? I don't see where he added sufficient talent to either team to make them winners, or taught them to play better than they had before he got there.
I'm with Dale on this one, I would have to see what he did with the teams he was given, I would have to understand why he left NYJ, before I would consider bringing him to Houston. What I know right now, his name doesn't even enter the discussion, but I admit I need to do more research.... getting one of his teams to the play-offs doesn't automatically do it for me.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
He spent the morning of the first day of KC Chiefs training camp coloring posters! Give me a freakin' break!
GP
Go Texans!
Here's how the Jets 9-7 is different than our 9-7:
The Jets still beat the Bengals and the Chargers in the playoffs. Those two playoff games were not "lay down" games by the Bengals and Chargers. It involved two Jets opponents who were fighting for a Super Bowl berth.
Therefore, I could really care that the Bengals and Colts laid down for the Jets at the end of the regular season. Why? Because once the playoffs began, the Jets ended up one win away from the Super Bowl.
That could have been us, instead of the Jets.
Let me transition from the Jets, and onto the topic of our 9-7 season for a moment....
We needed one more win in the regular season to get our shot at the Colts in the AFC Title game. Take your pick out of any of those losses we had. I'll choose to pick the Jags game where Kubiak admitted in his Loser Monday presser that it was his HB pass play-call and it was the wrong call to make. Duh. It's first down, near the end zone, and you call a freaking HB pass.
But Kubiak only called the play, and Chris Brown was the one who didn't execute it properly...except there's the issue of why Chris Brown is even on the team at all, let alone the snap-taker that he was until the very last game of the season. Someone learns verrrrrrry slowly, I'm afraid. As if "when his butt is on the line, and not a second before that." As in "When he has no other alternative." Why is that? And isn't that the same philosophy that this team displays: Only performing juuust enough to shake the boo birds for awhile. As it was said in Remember The Titans: "Attitude reflect leadership."
Leads us to Kris Brown. Easily an even more disastrous roster decision than Chris Brown. The Cowboys axed their yippin' kicker. Was a smart move that you'd expect from a team trying to get enough wins to get into the big tournament. It was cold, it was swift. It was smart. Business.
I think we've been down this path before, right? Sounds familiar to me.
Now back to the Jets...
You say "Don't put words in my mouth," when I said you guys think our 9-7 got us into an Imaginary Playoffs. Well, what other assumption is left when the Sunshiners dismiss the Jets playoff appearance and that their 9-7 is not really any different than our 9-7?
It's so night-and-day that it's escaping the grasp of a lot of people on here. Instead, we're left to wrestle with everything but Gary Kubiak. Paraphrasing here, for effect: "He just needs more time. We're almost there. What else on our team can we examine and dissect? Kubiak knows that 2010 is it..."
No, 2009 was it. This team has done this song and dance before. Bob McNair is a slow learner, too. Maybe that's the synergy that he and Kubiak share with each other and endears one to the other. I dunno.
We are delaying our step to the next level by 1 or 2 years. That's 1 or 2 years off Andre Johnson's shelf life. And others, as well.
I predict the pink soap will be displayed on here by mid-season at the latest. I just wonder if the players will rally, like they have in the past, or if they just absolutely dog it because they're spent from the futility.
The Jets still beat the Bengals and the Chargers in the playoffs. Those two playoff games were not "lay down" games by the Bengals and Chargers. It involved two Jets opponents who were fighting for a Super Bowl berth.
Therefore, I could really care that the Bengals and Colts laid down for the Jets at the end of the regular season. Why? Because once the playoffs began, the Jets ended up one win away from the Super Bowl.
That could have been us, instead of the Jets.
Let me transition from the Jets, and onto the topic of our 9-7 season for a moment....
We needed one more win in the regular season to get our shot at the Colts in the AFC Title game. Take your pick out of any of those losses we had. I'll choose to pick the Jags game where Kubiak admitted in his Loser Monday presser that it was his HB pass play-call and it was the wrong call to make. Duh. It's first down, near the end zone, and you call a freaking HB pass.
But Kubiak only called the play, and Chris Brown was the one who didn't execute it properly...except there's the issue of why Chris Brown is even on the team at all, let alone the snap-taker that he was until the very last game of the season. Someone learns verrrrrrry slowly, I'm afraid. As if "when his butt is on the line, and not a second before that." As in "When he has no other alternative." Why is that? And isn't that the same philosophy that this team displays: Only performing juuust enough to shake the boo birds for awhile. As it was said in Remember The Titans: "Attitude reflect leadership."
Leads us to Kris Brown. Easily an even more disastrous roster decision than Chris Brown. The Cowboys axed their yippin' kicker. Was a smart move that you'd expect from a team trying to get enough wins to get into the big tournament. It was cold, it was swift. It was smart. Business.
I think we've been down this path before, right? Sounds familiar to me.
Now back to the Jets...
You say "Don't put words in my mouth," when I said you guys think our 9-7 got us into an Imaginary Playoffs. Well, what other assumption is left when the Sunshiners dismiss the Jets playoff appearance and that their 9-7 is not really any different than our 9-7?
It's so night-and-day that it's escaping the grasp of a lot of people on here. Instead, we're left to wrestle with everything but Gary Kubiak. Paraphrasing here, for effect: "He just needs more time. We're almost there. What else on our team can we examine and dissect? Kubiak knows that 2010 is it..."
No, 2009 was it. This team has done this song and dance before. Bob McNair is a slow learner, too. Maybe that's the synergy that he and Kubiak share with each other and endears one to the other. I dunno.
We are delaying our step to the next level by 1 or 2 years. That's 1 or 2 years off Andre Johnson's shelf life. And others, as well.
I predict the pink soap will be displayed on here by mid-season at the latest. I just wonder if the players will rally, like they have in the past, or if they just absolutely dog it because they're spent from the futility.
GP
Go Texans!
And, remember this: I was a Sunshine member and a very vocal part of the Keep Hope Alive tour during off-season, draft, camp, pre-season, and even after the Cardinals' loss.
I've been on both sides of this deal. I've seen the lay of the land.
Some of you are not really taking a risk or chance to allow yourself to see but only one perspective. You're invested in your ideology without the ability to lay it down and risk the off-chance that you might have to switch party affiliation.
I had to lay down my mistake, and it was laid down after we lost the MNF game. I saw the topography of the Texans playoff chances after that game, and it was a lot of valley with only a momentary hill named Seattle and St. Louis.
Even the Patriots game was a hill. They almost laid down with the same level of no-give-a-crap as the Bengals and Colts displayed. I say "almost" because they would insert and yank Brady to the degree that they thought they might outlast us or lose to us. It was like a dad who sandbags a few plays in basketball against his son, trying to give off the appearance that it's a competitive game. It was very nice of Bill to be fatherly to Kubiak like that. He didn't do that for Fisher.
The peak is high. I don't think our sherpa can guide us there.
I've been on both sides of this deal. I've seen the lay of the land.
Some of you are not really taking a risk or chance to allow yourself to see but only one perspective. You're invested in your ideology without the ability to lay it down and risk the off-chance that you might have to switch party affiliation.
I had to lay down my mistake, and it was laid down after we lost the MNF game. I saw the topography of the Texans playoff chances after that game, and it was a lot of valley with only a momentary hill named Seattle and St. Louis.
Even the Patriots game was a hill. They almost laid down with the same level of no-give-a-crap as the Bengals and Colts displayed. I say "almost" because they would insert and yank Brady to the degree that they thought they might outlast us or lose to us. It was like a dad who sandbags a few plays in basketball against his son, trying to give off the appearance that it's a competitive game. It was very nice of Bill to be fatherly to Kubiak like that. He didn't do that for Fisher.
The peak is high. I don't think our sherpa can guide us there.
LonerATO
All Pro
why did you post this in two threads?
HoustonFrog
Dallas Frog
Do you think there are Vikings & Cowboy fans not making excuses?
I'm not going to dispute anything you said in this post. Bottom line, basically, they're true.
Do you believe the 2009 Texans are a better team than they were in 2008?
I do. I believe the 2008 team was better than the 2007 team. I believe the 2007 team was better than the 2006 team. Bottom line.
I believe the 2010 team will be better than the 2009 team. We've got the evidence to support that thought... do you agree, or disagree?
Every team makes mistakes, every coach makes bad calls, every team gets screwed by the refs. Next year, we'll be so good, that none of that will matter.
I believe that will be the case because of Kubiak. That progress will carry on from 2010, to 2011, to 2012..... we have no reason to believe otherwise.
Bring in another coach, and we may have success in 2010, but the evidence shows we have no idea what 2011, or 2012 might look like. Whether you look at Miami, Baltimore, NYJets, or Atlanta.
Cowboys fans have a different problem, they think it is their right to be in the Superbowl and blame both Romo and Wade for not getting them there constantly. More a never satitsfied group than will make excuses group.
I don't know enough vikings fan.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Yeah. And no excuses for...
The Buffalo Bills
The New York Jets
The Cincinnati Bengals
The Cleveland Browns
The Jacksonville Jaguars
The Tennessee Titans
The Kansas City Chiefs
The San Diego Chargers
The Philadelphia Eagles
The Detroit Lions
The Minnesota Vikings
The Atlanta Falcons
The Carolina Panthers
The Arizona Cardinals
The Seattle Seahawks
Those are all the teams besides the Texans that haven't won a Super Bowl since the merger. Half the league. They're obviously not trying hard enough and don't want to win. After all, it only takes 4 years to build a SB winner.
houstonspartan
All Pro
LOL. So true.
I know a few Cowboy fans, and that's how they are. And, they actually, honestly think they are "America's team", as in, George Washington basically founded the team right after he discovered America.
And, they actually, truly think that God wants them to win all the time. And if they don't win, someone must have made God angry.
GP
Go Texans!
I think the players have progressed, minus Kris Brown, Chris Brown, and Myers the center.
I don't think the coach has progressed. At least not at the same rate as the players have. I think the players are actually passing Kubiak in terms of them "getting it" vs. Kubiak "getting it" when we talk about personal responsibility in their roles on the team.
Mario is someone who isn't living up to his potential. I think he could be great, but something is going on that isn't producing the results you'd expect out of him. So I might have to throw Mario out there as someone who reminds me a lot of Gary Kubiak: They should be doing better, but we get production in spurts and there's no real way to know what performance you're going to get out of them.
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
How is Charles Grant living up to his potential in N.O., or his monstrous contract? What about Reggie Bush? How has R. Meachem played relative to his draft position and potential?
The Saints had a great season. And, Sean Payton has done a very good job with the team. However, every roster has examples of players underperforming their potential. A roster is made up of 53 homosapiens. There is no way to have all 53 physically and mentally engaged at the same time. Kubiak's players play hard for him, as a rule.
I'm not sure you can isolate the head coach's performance from the way his players perform. At least, that's what I think and is largely why I'm higher on Kubiak than most. Because, if I'm judging Kubiak on primarily his game management, I wouldn't grade him out near as a high. I just happen to think the system, player development, and player focus/motivation are the areas that a head coach makes his greatest impact. And, I'm very happy with Kubiak in that regard.
I'm thinking pretty much the same thing.
As for Mario, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, with his "injury"
So he only got 9 sacks... boo hoo. If that's what we'll get out of him on a down year..... I'll take it.
But with Pollard, Demeco, Cushing & Antonio putting out the effort they have been, I can't believe Mario was sandbagging.
I may be wrong, and we'll see soon enough.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
What is the point at all in bringing up these players? They've got nothing to do with Mario Williams at all? You're trying to bring up inferior under achievers and compare them to Mario to make his lack of contributions to what people think he's capable sound less disappointing. Hell I could argue for any player I want to if I'm just going to look for others who do less to compare them to. Compare Mario to other top DE's around the league because he's supposed to be right towards the top for his size and abilities and for what he's paid. I remember before this season on another forum we discussed who the best DE in the league would be this season and most of the people thought it would be Mario. Myself and one other guy adamently argued for Jared Allen and said that he was better and Allen had a much better season than Mario this year. There were several DE's that were outproducing Mario pretty much all year this season and Mario should be right at the top.
I don't know about all that. Buddy punched Kevin Gilbride in the face during an Oilers game. It was Buddy's defense that kept that season going for 11 straight wins. It probably wasn't kosher, but I think Gilbride probably deserved it. He always came across as a little smarmy and arrogant, IMO.
And as much as I like and respect Bum and his son, neither have rings. Buddy and Rex both have them.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I think the point was even great coaches can only coach up players to a degree. At some point it falls on the player to perform. I don't think Mario had as bad a year as you allege but in any case, maybe that is on Mario and not on the coaches.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I wasn't putting it on the coaches. I was putting it on Mario and I agree with your point in this scenario. Mario is a big boy and he shouldn't need any superior coaching to be a beast when it comes to rushing the passer. He's got the size and the skills and the abilities, so it's on him to bring out the beast and punish people. He's just never been a huge difference maker to me. He has spurts where he can pile up some numbers and have a few huge plays, but then he goes silent all to often. He just doesn't ever dominate games to where you think a QB is having nightmares about him like they would for a guy like Allen or Freeney or on the level that Dumbervill was playing this season.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
I don't know about all that. Buddy punched Kevin Gilbride in the face during an Oilers game. It was Buddy's defense that kept that season going for 11 straight wins. It probably wasn't kosher, but I think Gilbride probably deserved it. He always came across as a little smarmy and arrogant, IMO.
And as much as I like and respect Bum and his son, neither have rings. Buddy and Rex both have them.
Buddy was great and Gilbride did deserve it. We lost Marcus Robertson because Moon and Gilbride wanted to pad their stats. I wonder if Cash, the TE of the Chiefs, is open for Montana on the TD play in the AFC Divisional game if Robertson was not on the bench injured. We will never know.
One thing though, Gilbride eventually got his ring too.
Imagine how great that defense would have been if Wilber Marshall had been healthier. Him and Lathon and Al Smith for 16 games would have been an insane LB corps. Didn't we have Barrow that year too? Man, that team was stacked. Holovak was a damn good GM. Hopefully our Texans can put together a talented squad of that caliber and hopefully have more playoff success than those crews did. That was a different era as far as salary cap goes, but if we can add a few more hosses to the defense, we could start bringing the noise like they did. That was my favorite Oiler season, excuse me if I get a little choked up.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
I haven't read this thread, but I'm still trying to figure out why a contract extension is supposed to change people's opinions of Kubiak. If anything it changes my opinion of Mr. McNair. Giving a 3 year extension to a underachieving coach who usually comes up short in every big/"turn the corner" game is flat out ridiculous.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I don't know about all that. Buddy punched Kevin Gilbride in the face during an Oilers game. It was Buddy's defense that kept that season going for 11 straight wins. It probably wasn't kosher, but I think Gilbride probably deserved it. He always came across as a little smarmy and arrogant, IMO.
And as much as I like and respect Bum and his son, neither have rings. Buddy and Rex both have them.
Come on now, I would have expected better out of you and Second Honeymoon Double Barrell. How in the world could Gilbride have deserved to be punched in the face in the middle of a game????? That was one of the most dispicable acts that any coach in any sport has ever displayed and it was a terrible thing to do before the Oilers were going into the playoffs to throw a punch at a fellow coach. Buddy had been known for pulling crap like that in the past as well. That wasn't the first coach that he assaulted either. Buddy was an extreme jerk for years in that regard. I knew the Gilbride family really well back then and Kevin Gilbride was not some arrogant guy. Maybe he came off that way to you on television, but he wasn't that way in person. That was one bullshit succer punch that he threw in between a few other coaches to. He knew that Kevin would have been held back right away as soon as the punch was thrown. That punch was as cheap as it gets.
And Gilbride has won a SB ring as well.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
thanks bro. glad to know that there are some that actually get it.
can we please win a game that means something. we just get worked in big games.
but boy we can beat the raiders, seahawks, and rams. whoopty-freaking-doo.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
meh, gilbride sucked and was a stat monger like Moon...but that is another thread.
buddy ryan was great and he didn't even really try and hurt gilbride. how could he hurt Kevin? Buddy was an old man sticking up for his player that just blew out his knee because of the gilbride/moon hijinks.
Silver Oak
All Pro
...and Patriots, Bengals, Miami, and San Francisco. 3 of those games were against playoff teams from this year, or the year previous, and all meant something to the other side.
of course, I'm one of those who don't "actually get it", so what do I know?
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
the bengals win was quality and we played real well against the Dolphins in a must-have game. those are good wins dont get me wrong. the 49er game was a good win but lets face it, the 49ers suck. The Patriots win was also a must-have game but we can all agree the Patriots didn't put up much of a fight yet still managed to make the game competitive. Still a good win and at least made the Jets-Bengals game mean something...although it meant nothing to the Bengals obviously.
you 'get it' more than most around here do, Silver Oak. I am not trying to be negative nancy, but we gotta start winning some divisional games and not just win enough games to keep Gary employed.
Hopefully things will turn around this year because its gonna be a long drought of football for us fans after 2010. we may never get our game back the way it was and it may become Baseball 2.0 as far as competitive balance goes. We don't want that and we need to pull out all stops to win in 2010. Not just make the playoffs but win the Super Bowl. that is what our goal should be every year. not 8-8 or 9-7 or playoffs...but Super Bowl. Shoot for the championship and even if you come short, you probably accomplished something worthy of mention and far more than you would have if your target is mediocrity or just playoffs.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Gilbride's been a pretty good OC for a long time in this league. He's never been the greatest, but come on he helped anchor the Oilers to some great offenses where Warren Moon always threw that classic pick in so many games. And that horrible playoff game was on Buddy Ryan's defense. They gave up a 32 point lead for heaven's sake. And hell, Gilbride just won a SB ring with Eli Manning as his QB of that offense.
A player can get hurt on any given play. That wasn't Gilbride's fault that he got hurt. And you don't think that he was trying to hurt him? Really??? He freaking punched him and it was between two coaches to where Gilbride couldn't even defend himself or retaliate. It was as cheap of a move as I've ever seen. And that was extremely embarrassing to the Oilers organization at the time and that happened on the last game of the season right when we were headed into the playoffs. That was a huge distraction for that team to deal with and answer about at that time. It was the biggest story in the NFL at the time by far. And again, Buddy had done in the past as well. That wasn't his first time punching a fellow coach on the same staff. Buddy was being a piece of **** to Gilbride that entire season and it had been becoming a problem way before that punch ever took place.
Said Gilbride the next day, "It's a daily, ongoing thing. The comments, the sarcasm, the denigrating and disparaging remarks toward the offense. We try to just survive it. That's what we're going to do. My best way of handling it is to try to stay far away from the guy and try not to respond to his incessant remarks and just stay focused on who I thought the opponent was -- the teams we play week to week."
Here's a little tid bit from Wade Phillips where he talks about what a piece of **** Buddy Ryan was.
Broncos coach Wade Phillips, who had worked for Ryan in Philadelphia, saw the punch on TV and said it didn't surprise him. "He has slugged people on the sideline before,'' Phillips said . "Assistant coaches who were next to him got it. I was always up in the press box with the headset on, so I didn't."
http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/wildcoaches.html
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
First off, the Niners didn't suck. They finished up 8-8. At the time we played them, they were 3-2 and a lot of people expect a lot from them. They beat the Cardinals twice.
Secondly, even though the Patriots didn't play a couple of guys who were hurt, they were playing to win. If that was a give-up game, then Randy Moss and Brady wouldn't have been playing at all.
Third, I think Kubiak's goal IS to win the Super Bowl. I don't think the goal is just getting to the play offs or just having a winning season. But different coaches approach that different ways. Many coaches take the approach of "Make it to the playoffs and once you get there THEN you shoot for the Super Bowl." Several coaches who've won Super Bowls have taken that mind set. It's very similar to the approach of just taking 1 game at a time. Just concentrate on winning the next game and don't look past it.
But ultimately, almost all of the talk you hear from coaches is just rhetoric. None of it really matters much. It doesn't really show you what's going on in the coaches head, it's not a good indicator of how that coach works with or motivates his players.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
For those of you who were not watching the infamous "punch" game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPK3cDl7Ftw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPK3cDl7Ftw
We're all on the same page here. It's not like you're telling anybody anything they don't know.
Well, first off, Tex, my statement was purely tongue-in-cheek from a 'hardcore football fan' perspective. I hate the run & shoot for the 35-3 debacle, simply because they could not protect a lead. Gilbride's arrogance back then was that they did not even need a TE or FB on the roster. That's on him and Pardee as masters of the r&s.
My statement about Buddy Ryan was in direct response to WWJD, when she said "Buddy was always one of those that talked alot of noise but he'd run at the first sign of stuff coming his way."
I did not feel this was true, which has been clearly revealed by my statement and yours, as well. I'm not justifying his behavior - dude was temperamental, at best - but he certainly was not one to run away from trouble. But he called it like he saw it, and Gilbride's offense could not control the clock and Ryans called it the "chuck and duck". If Gilbride had just let Buddy blow off steam, the famous punch never would have happened. The truth is that Kevin started talking trash and Buddy punched him.
And I'm aware that Gilbride got a ring, but this was about the Ryans vs. the Phillips in my statement to WWJD.
Obviously, you have more of a personal stake in the story, so your objectivity is a bit slanted, but that's cool. Mine is, too, because 35-3 left a permanent stain on any player, coach, and franchise associated with it. Disgusting stuff, indeed.
Now you're just plain wrong. Jim Eddy was the Oilers DC for that game, and he was fired as a scapegoat. He ended up in Dallas the next year and got two rings with them, IIRC. (I think the entire staff should have been sacked, but what do I know, I was just an angry fan.)
Buddy was hired the next season. The Oilers started the season 1-4, but it was Ryan's 46 defense that lit a fire and sent them on an 11 game winning streak.
He might have been a jerk, but he was one of the best DCs in the NFL. His 1985 Chicago Bears defense is still considered one of the best in football history.
Prior to that, he got a ring with the Jets in the infamous Joe Namath Super Bowl, creating multiple blitz packages that changed NFL defenses forever.
Then he was the DC for the Vikings "Purple People Eaters", one of the all-time great Ds in history.
You might not like him, but there is no denying his impact on pro football. There have been lots of jerks in the game, but when all that matters is wins and losses, I'd rather have a winning jerk than a nice guy loser. JMO
DB..my statement about Buddy running was in reference (and I should have said so) to an episode involving Jimmy Johnson..infamous bounty game...Buddy ran into the locker room before Jimmy could get to him and Jimmy said something to the effect of he was going to talk to Buddy but he ran his fat ass into the lockerroom.
That was the nice version Jimmy said at his after game press conference. In private I am sure he wasn't as well spoken.
Any other incidents involving Buddy I don't know about other than the punching Kevin thing which was a huge deal..
I always wished Jimmy would have had the chance to "talk" to Buddy face to face that day. Unfortunately Buddy ran and got away too soon. Sure wasn't any big man in him that day.
That was the nice version Jimmy said at his after game press conference. In private I am sure he wasn't as well spoken.
Any other incidents involving Buddy I don't know about other than the punching Kevin thing which was a huge deal..
I always wished Jimmy would have had the chance to "talk" to Buddy face to face that day. Unfortunately Buddy ran and got away too soon. Sure wasn't any big man in him that day.
Silver Oak
All Pro
thats exactly right. just because I think Kubiak can get the job done in the next two seasons doesn't mean I would get down on my knees in front of the man.
if he has a serious falter, I would be among those calling for his termination, but that remains to be seen. I pay for my seats/parking/beverages/food/merchandise too, and want a winner as much as anyone.
ahhh, I gotcha'. I never heard about that incident, but the bounty thing rings a bell. It doesn't surprise me, though, as both Ryan and Johnson were very strong personalities. Was this when Buddy was HC of the Eagles?
Personalities never mattered much to me as a football fan. I don't really care if they are nice or mean or hard or soft or whatever. All that matters to me - as a football fanatic - is results.
And while I think it is great that a nice guy like Sean Peyton wins, it does not bother me at all if a-holes like Bill Parcells win. This is why Kubiak's personality has no impact on my evaluation and analysis of him as a HC. It's not a personal thing, but rather strictly the business of football.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Well I don't know about Buddy running from anyone either. That didn't seem like Buddy at all. He seemed to do the exact opposite. We are in agreement there.
Buddy had been hounding Kevin for that entire season. It was no secret that they didn't get along. Buddy had been a jerk about it as well, and when we're talking about a guy whose history is known for being that way and for punching other coaches, well it's not hard to figure out that Gilbride was dealing with a lot of bullshit from the man. They were both coordinators hired to do their job. You may not have liked the Run N Shoot offense but it was very effective back in the day and I'll agree with you about the running off the clock thing, but Buddy had no right to act the way he did towards another coach who had a job just as high as his.
And it wasn't Gilbride that started off with BUddy. I could tell you Buddy's exact words that started that whole thing. He told Gilbride that it was "A junior High call." And I heard this from Gilbride's son himself and I had heard about what an ass Buddy was all that season before that incident ever happened. Gilbride then responded and said his own words in response and Buddy assaulted him in the middle of a game and showed no self control.
Yeah, Gilbride is the OC for the Giants and he got his first ring a few years ago. I was very happy for him and his family.
I couldn't watch football for a while after that game. It was hard man. There is no way that I could ever experience a loss worse than the feeling I had that day and it's still painful actually.
I don't see how the hell the defense couldn't have held that lead though.
Yeah, I guess I must have gotten my years messed up from back then. It was so long ago and I was a kid. I had always remembered that being Buddy's defense that blew that lead.
Oh, I'm not saying that he wasn't a great coach and one of the best of all time as a DC. He certainly was and before that punch he threw at Gilbride I was always a big fan of his even though I heard a lot of nasty things about the guy from the Gilbrides. I had no idea he was a coach for those Jets that won the SB or the Vikings either. I just knew about him being the DC for the Bears and the HC of the Eagles before the Oilers and how he created those blitz packages and the 46 defense. Michael Irvin always said that going into Philly and playing those Eagles teams under Buddy Ryan was the most scariest teams he ever had to play.
I've always appreciated his legacy, but hated him for that awful punch he threw at the time because it was right before the playoffs and I saw how much bullshit Gilbride's kids had to deal with because of it as well being made fun of from other kids and adults even when that happened.
I'm with you though. I like a hard nosed coach like Buddy and I love Rex Ryan. Those are the types of coaches that I like, with exception to the lack of self control that Buddy had with the punching of other coaches and all.
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Wolf
100% Texan
bounty bowl was in 1989. this is Jimmy recently talking about the for some reason (that he doesn't know) is the Eagles had a bounty on Lois Zendejas
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOW9oYaSQdg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOW9oYaSQdg
That's cool, Tex! I appreciate your insight and perspective. Like I said, I wasn't defending Buddy Ryan. The punch was uncalled for looking back in hindsight. I just remember finding it funny at the time because I had a very strong dislike of Gilbride due to leftover and unresolved anger from 'that game'.
Funny thing was that I was at the Jets game when the punch happened, but we didn't know about it until we heard the post-game show on the way home.
Funny thing was that I was at the Jets game when the punch happened, but we didn't know about it until we heard the post-game show on the way home.
GuerillaBlack
Hall of Fame
Once we got our lead against San Francisco, we let them right back into the game and they started torching us in the second half. That happened far too often this season.
If the game really meant something to the Patriots, they wouldn't have keep pulling Brady/Moss in and out. Brady didn't even play on the last drive.
What coaches? I would think the goal would always be Super Bowl. You don't get a first round of playoffs badge. And I don't think Kubiak will take us to the promise land. I'd LOVE to be wrong about that, but I'm not seeing it from him.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
I know you to well in here to think that you would have defended Ryan's famous punch.
Yeah, old memories man. THose were some fun years, but some really bad old wounds to. I'll admit that I have a certain bias with the Gilbrides. I knew his entire family very well back then and I still communicate with his son even now and he coaches at Temple university. He's been climbing the ladder for a long time now and I'm very proud of him. Kevin Gilbride the coach also coached my baseball team while all of this happened and I can tell you that their entire family were all class acts.
Ha ha! So was I. I don't think anyone in the stadium knew, because we sure as hell didn't. The Oilers put on a nice ass whooping that day against the Jets and I remember getting home and seeing it on the news and couldn't believe it.
Buddy put out a bounty on the Cowboys kicker..Zendajas or whatever his name was...and they did get him. That's what ticked Jimmy off and he was purple in his post game press conference. He was so mad...Buddy always hated the Cowboys and it went to the Landry days when he played guys that crossed the picket line while Buddy's team was just scrubs. I guess he never got pass that but he was an ornery old man anyway. Landry never said much about it as far as I can remember..the games counted after all..but that whole strike thing just rubbed different folks different ways.
Anyway that's what I was talking about. I doubt Rex would go off like that on the sidelines...number one he'd be suspended immediately and while he may be hot headed like his dad I think he has a bit more self control.
Thanks for posting this..I didn't see it until after I posted...I was at that bounty bowl game. Oh brother....
Jimmy was something else.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
That's a different issue. The point was being an 8-8 team means that you don't suck.
Brady didn't play on the last drive because he got CRUSHED by Mario on the past play of the penultimate drive. Brady was in for the entire game except for 2 drives. Moss was in for most of the game, I'd have to go back and check to see if he got pulled more than normal.
Brian Billick. Wouldn't even talk about playoffs during the season to the point that he outlawed the use of the word. No one on the team could use the "p" word. Once he got to the playoffs, THEN he started talking about going all the way.
Cowher. In 2000, he refused to talk about getting to the playoffs until they had won X number of games.
The rest of these are from memory and my memory could be faulty: Shanahan, Coughlin, Dungy.
Vermeil even has quotes about just getting to the playoffs and it doesn't matter how you got there, after that you can make some noise. And I thought that was a relatively well-known/prevalent quote. You can't get to the Super Bowl if you don't get to the playoffs. But if you can get to the playoffs, it doesn't matter how you got there, you've got a shot at the Super Bowl.
Ultimately, it's all just rhetoric. Everyone's goal is the same. There's not a player or a coach out there that doesn't want to win the SB.
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