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HC possibilities - Cowher is the current flavor

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ATXtexanfan said:
Amount of money cowher wants plus power might be enticing to tomlin? Why not shoot for the moon? Try jimmy johnson? Maybe parcells wants to stick it to jerry? Anyone other then to good to be true cowher.
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This isn't college though, head coaches don't jump between teams if they get offered more money. They change jobs when they retire or get fired. We offer 10 mil to Tomlin and we will likely lose our first round pick next season due to tampering. Parcells also has a job in the NFL. JJ has been out of football for far longer than Cowher. What do you care what kind of cash it could take to get the chin here? Not our cash and it doesn't even count against the salary cap.

Your entire argument seems to hinge on the proclamation that Cowher will not deliver a SB victory and a SB victory is all that matters. Winning a SB is extremely difficult thing to do. I just want a coach that I can trust to make our team play hard and smart. Let the chips fall where they may after that, no coach and no player can guarantee a SB victory.
 
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Keep Kubiak please, I really don't want to turn into the Notre Dame Fighting Irish, firing a head coach every year. Give the guy a chance, it is completely obvious that his offensive schemes would be working to PERFECTION if we had a good run-blocking offensive line. WE NEED a running game to win in this league, plain and simple, we feast off of play action and not having a run game is not helping at all. We need to get more secondary help, its clear the only one that is actually playing hard for us is Pollard. Kubiak has a strong system in place, it's just that we have some major weaknesses in positions that playoff contenders CANNOT have.
 
ATXtexanfan said:
Amount of money cowher wants plus power might be enticing to tomlin? Why not shoot for the moon? Try jimmy johnson? Maybe parcells wants to stick it to jerry? Anyone other then to good to be true cowher.
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One important point you seem to be missing is that Cowher has actually expressed interest in the Texans job.
 
TheCD said:
I don't understand your argument here. Both Cowher and Tomlin are good coaches, but Tomlin stepped into a coaches dream in taking over a team that had just recently won the Super Bowl, had all the core elements to go back, and had no upheaval at all. Tomlin's situation is entirely different from that of say Tampa, Seattle, etc. because these teams absolutely fell off of the radar and had very little talent left when the new coach arrived.

Tomlin was in a unique situation where his coaching style meshed perfectly with the team's personnel, and that personnel was already among the elites in the league. All Tomlin had to do was continue to place talent on the team, rather than build it from scratch.

It's easily arguable (though I'm not making that argument) that Tomlin won with Cowher's players. Look at where Raheem Morris is right now. He's looking to be a great coach, but are those the guys he personally hand-picked to play on that Colts team? Hardly. Let's wait until these teams are filled with nothing but the new coaches players before we compare the coaches records with those teams.
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So your saying tomlin was a round peg in the round pitt hole? I buy that. Cowher is a square peg in the houston hole. All I'm saying. No instant success when overhauling both sides of the ball. One superbowl makes him a god in houston. Like VY and that national title.
 
Jackie Chiles said:
This isn't college though, head coaches don't jump between teams if they get offered more money. They change jobs when they retire or get fired. We offer 10 mil to Tomlin and we will likely lose our first round pick next season due to tampering. Parcells is also has a job in the NFL. JJ has been out of football for far longer than Cowher. What do you care what kind of cash it could take to get the chin here? Not our cash and it doesn't even count against the salary cap.

Your entire argument seems to hinge on the proclamation that Cowher will not deliver a SB victory and a SB victory is all that matters. Winning a SB is extremely difficult thing to do. I just want a coach that I can trust to make our team play hard and smart. Let the chips fall where they may after that, no coach and no player can guarantee a SB victory.
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:bravo:
 
ATXtexanfan said:
You still haven't answered my question. How long was cowher a steeler coach before he won one ...
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Not sure what "won one" refers to as the "one"... but

4 years to AFC champion
7 years after a losing season to become superbowl champ
3 out of 15 years for a "winning" season. (one was 8-8)
 
triplethreat said:
Keep Kubiak please, I really don't want to turn into the Notre Dame Fighting Irish, firing a head coach every year. Give the guy a chance, it is completely obvious that his offensive schemes would be working to PERFECTION if we had a good run-blocking offensive line. WE NEED a running game to win in this league, plain and simple, we feast off of play action and not having a run game is not helping at all. We need to get more secondary help, its clear the only one that is actually playing hard for us is Pollard. Kubiak has a strong system in place, it's just that we have some major weaknesses in positions that playoff contenders CANNOT have.
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I too hate that our OL cant get a consistent push in the running game and we decided not to get a power back that would complement Slaton. The depth on the OL is pathetic, did the coaches really think we could go 16 games with the same startin OL two years in a row? I am also disgusted that we still need more secondary help after Kubiak has had 4 years on the job. Even more so that we still have major weaknesses (again after Kubiak has had 4 years here) that playoff contenders cannot have.

This is why we need to make a change in leadership. This team has problems that playoff contenders cannot have (like you mentioned) yet we're on year 4 with the same coach and we have said problems.
 
OzzO said:
Not sure what "won one" refers to as the "one"... but

4 years to AFC champion
7 years after a losing season to become superbowl champ
3 out of 15 years for a "winning" season. (one was 8-8)
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More importantly, he took a team to the playoffs his first season.
 
ATXtexanfan said:
How long was cowher in pitt before he won that superbowl? How long was tomlin in pitt before he won that superbowl? Cowher wants to be gm also. Does he know how to draft or did it take him a long time to win with someone elses players? How long has tomlin been a coach and how many rings does have to cowher. Cowher is fools gold. They beat seattle in the worst officiated superbowl of all time. You guys need to wait till tomorrow to post
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How many losing seasons did Cowher have in Pitt? 2? 3 maybe? It's not just a Superbowl issue here it's a winning issue. I'll take playoffs all freaking day long over 8-8 and less.

Isn't that what we're talking about here? Super Bowl to me is a non freaking issue. Start bringing in 10-6, 12-4, 11-5 records and then we'll start talking SB. You need someone in here to bring a mentality of winning.

Are you happy with Par for the course? Well lay it the hell up tin cup.
 
I'm not sure if he is a possibility but how about Leslie Frazier, Assistant HC and DC for the Vikes? Or how about Assistant HC and offensive line coach Dante Scarnecchia?

I think Leslie Frazier would be a good choice if we can't grab the "top guys" like Cowher or Jon Gruden.


:clown:
 
TheRealJoker said:
I too hate that our OL cant get a consistent push in the running game and we decided not to get a power back that would complement Slaton. The depth on the OL is pathetic, did the coaches really think we could go 16 games with the same startin OL two years in a row? I am also disgusted that we still need more secondary help after Kubiak has had 4 years on the job. Even more so that we still have major weaknesses (again after Kubiak has had 4 years here) that playoff contenders cannot have.

This is why we need to make a change in leadership. This team has problems that playoff contenders cannot have (like you mentioned) yet we're on year 4 with the same coach and we have said problems.
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Listen, the thing is Kubiak is slowly building this team into contenders, Our Line Backers are maybe one of the best in the league with Cushing and Ryans. We have a great back in Slaton if we just beef up on the line. Our QB is one of the best at play action fakes which would fit our system with perfection if we had our running game. Great reciever/tight end talents, I say give him at LEAST 1 more year and see what he can do.
 
Mr. White said:
One important point you seem to be missing is that Cowher has actually expressed interest in the Texans job.
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Mr white, has he told you that? Or is he parlaying kubes into extra cash? Those kind of rumors got ND into trouble with mr weiss? I've expressed my disinterest into cowher. If he arrives I'll blindly support him like carr. Adios mofos.
 
Kubiak is building this team into a contender for what? Third in our division?

The most glaring thing to me is that we are 1-4 in or division so far this year, and we got the 1 win against a team that was starting an 0-6 run. Kubiak has built a team whose achilles heel is the teams in its own division.

I say in order to keep his job for one more year he needs to beat Jax AND win 3 other games this year, getting him a minimum of 9 wins. Good luck with that... Regardless, I would be trying to start talks with Cowher immediately.
 
I would also inform Kubiak that he better allow his QB to audible to both run AND pass plays or he will NEVER be successful. Every D in the league knows Schaub can only audible to run plays....so he doesn't audible. He might as well just take the snap and spike the ball on first down. At least it would keep one of our RBs from fumbling. Idiotic...
 
HJam72 said:
Kubiak is building this team into a contender for what? Third in our division?

The most glaring thing to me is that we are 1-4 in or division so far this year, and we got the 1 win against a team that was starting an 0-6 run. Kubiak has built a team whose achilles heel is the teams in its own division.

I say in order to keep his job for one more year he needs to beat Jax AND win 3 other games this year, getting him a minimum of 9 wins. Good luck with that... Regardless, I would be trying to start talks with Cowher immediately.
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And this is doable. At Jax, Seattle at home, then St. Louis on the road? That SHOULD be 3 wins alone. That puts us at 8-6. Win one of the last 2 and Kubiak stays in place.
 
I cannot logically see any reason to keep Kubiak.

He is not a good coach. How could any reasonable organization keep a proven loser like Kubiak?
 
houstonspartan said:
Actually, he is a good guy. I like him so much I occassionally see stories about his kids, and root for them (his three kids are all football players). Gary is a stand up guy.

But...it's not working.
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Yeah I know, my Aunt's husband is good friends with the Kubiak family, and hes told me he and his family are great people. I just think its time for him to make like a tree, and get outta here.
 
SI's Don Banks is on the Fire Kubiak wagon as well...

McNair gave Dom Capers the boot as his head coach after four playoff-less seasons, and Kubiak now deserves the exact same treatment. Despite having some of the most gifted players in the league at several positions, the Texans lack heart, killer instinct and the know-how to win. If that's not a reflection on a head coach's leadership, what pray tell is?

As December dawns, the Texans are again toast. They should be in the market for a new face of the franchise in the coming weeks, and it's obvious they're in desperate need of a heart transplant, as well. Four years is an eminently fair shot in today's NFL. Kubiak got his chance to make the Texans a winner, and he failed. Better than most, he knows he and his football team have wound up on the wrong side of the bottom line.
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Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/11/29/week12.snaps/#ixzz0YIx86EOk
 
Notice what happened to Minnesota when they made the move for Favre.

They got someone who had prior experience in the area of HEART. They paired him up with Adrian Peterson. They hit a huge home-run by drafting Percy Harvin. Things work when you get the right guys at the right spots.

I think firing Kubiak after next week's loss to the Jaguars, and then the ensuing media circus that could occur with TV shots of Cowher being flown into Houston to meet with McNair, as well as getting the deal done ASAP, could be a great leap into starting the new era before this one really ends.

Why wait until the end of the season? Getting the new guy, now, can get his feet onto the ground and with the players before the season is done. Retain all the current staff through the end of the season. Allow your o-coord and d-coord to continue calling the rest of the season here. The new HC can roam the sideline and mix and mingle in the locker room and in the meetings, using his fresh eyes to actively SEE and witness what things were wrong.

He'd have a tremendous leap if he gets to see the players NOW when they are still going through the motions and showing signs/signals of how the Kubiak regime handled things.

Use the first few weeks of the off-season to evaluate the coordinators, then start making your moves.

And, obviously, Joe Marciano remains on the team because he's the only friggin' coach who has consistently produced for this team no matter who has been the coach and no matter what situation we've been in.

Count me as being a fan who says it's OK to break with tradition, here, and go ahead and get started on identifying the next head coach of this team.
 
From Vinny's link:

Four years is an eminently fair shot in today's NFL. Kubiak got his chance to make the Texans a winner, and he failed.
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That's really the bottom line. I'm not sure who could have done a better job than Kubiak, given the situation, but four years without one winning season is failure.

And I state again, put me in the Holmgren camp. I'd be happy enough with Cowher, but if I had to bet money on one or the other, I'd take Holmgren. He has a better track record.
 
GP said:
The new HC can roam the sideline and mix and mingle in the locker room and in the meetings, using his fresh eyes to actively SEE and witness what things were wrong.

He'd have a tremendous leap if he gets to see the players NOW when they are still going through the motions and showing signs/signals of how the Kubiak regime handled things.
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Because let's be big boys and girls here, for a moment:

This set of players, collectively, sees the writing on the wall with Kubiak.

So why wait? Why put on the fake smile, and the "Gary's our guy" shenanigans?

Make the move, throw the whole bank at Cowher. Give him what he wants. Hell, move the team to his backyard and build a stadium in it for all I care. But this team has enough good players to make a move. They just need someone who's been there and done that. Period.

They need that guy who can look at them and say "You can do this. I know you can do this because I have been there. I can get you there. You've never been there, and that's not all your fault. So let's go there. Let's DO this. The next level begins right now."

If you were one of those Texans players, and you heard Cowher say that to you, in the midst of all these games where we should have won but couldn't pull it off, don't you think that would inspire this so-called "confidence" that everyone says the Texans NEED but don't have yet?
 
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Dan B. said:
You know his average season is 11-5? Sounds better than what we've had so far to me.
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I should have been clearer in my previous post. I meant that the teams that Marty took to the playoffs had no direction prior to him becoming their head coach.
 
GP said:
Because let's be big boys and girls here, for a moment:

This set of players, collectively, sees the writing on the wall with Kubiak.

So why wait? Why put on the fake smile, and the "Gary's our guy" shenanigans?

Make the move, throw the whole bank at Cowher. Give him what he wants. Hell, move the team to his backyard and build a stadium in it for all I care. But this team has enough good players to make a move. They just someone who's been there and done that. Period.

They need that guy who can look at them and say "You can do this. I know you can do this because I have been there. I can get you there. You've never been there, and that's not all your fault. So let's go there. Let's DO this. The next level begins right now."
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I see your point, but we can't do that.

Yes, these players may see the writing on the wall, but it's important that they keep playing for him. If McNair comes in and tosses Kubiak out now, it will give the players a VERY BAD impression of the franchise. They will see it as being disrespectful and offensive towards their coach.

We need Matt, Demeco and Andre to still want to play for Bob McNair.

Again, in theory, I see your point. And, based on the nasty looks I saw McNair give after the game, he's probably tempted to fire Kubiak tonight. But it's a lot more complicated than that.
 
If we do get Cowher as a HC, does this mean we switch to a 3-4 defense or do we stay in a 4-3?

Bill Cowher would be nice but I doubt he wants to coach again. I remember him mentioning he wants to be with his family and daughter (who is going off to college as far as I know).
 
Texan4Ever said:
If we do get Cowher as a HC, does this mean we switch to a 3-4 defense or do we stay in a 4-3?

Bill Cowher would be nice but I doubt he wants to coach again. I remember him mentioning he wants to be with his family and daughter (who is going off to college as far as I know).
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He would probably switch, gradually. Which buys him at LEAST a year 'pass' with no playoffs. As much as I hate it ... a change in coaching means no playoffs anytime soon :(
 
blogkimmy said:
He would probably switch, gradually. Which buys him at LEAST a year 'pass' with no playoffs. As much as I hate it ... a change in coaching means no playoffs anytime soon :(
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Yep. That's what we have to get ready for. Whenever we do bring in a new coach, that's going to set us back at least two years. So, the question is, do we bring in a new coach now, or do we hope Kubiak pulls it together next season and give him another year? And, if we do give him another year and he doesn't pull it off, we'll fire him, but that would put us a year behind where we COULD HAVE BEEN had we fired him THIS year.

We, the fans are angry right now, but I would hate to be Bob McNair. He has a tough call.
 
houstonspartan said:
I see your point, but we can't do that.

Yes, these players may see the writing on the wall, but it's important that they keep playing for him. If McNair comes in and tosses Kubiak out now, it will give the players a VERY BAD impression of the franchise. They will see it as being disrespectful and offensive towards their coach.

We need Matt, Demeco and Andre to still want to play for Bob McNair.

Again, in theory, I see your point. And, based on the nasty looks I saw McNair give after the game, he's probably tempted to fire Kubiak tonight. But it's a lot more complicated than that.
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I seriously don't think any of those players you mentioned would begin looking at the franchise in a negative manner if Kubiak were fired at midnight tonight.

In fact, I think they would be glad. Because the guys you listed, IMO, are guys who handle their business. And they, too, should know that they, too, could also be let go if they aren't producing.

This franchise moves at a glacial pace when it comes to making big moves. I think the Carr-Schaub situation is the only exception. Which is weird, because it was done so quickly when compared to how moves are normally made. I've stated that this glacial pace mentality is good in some ways, but bad in others. It's bad right now, because Cowher says he won't deal with any team who still has a coach.

Cowher would probably love to coach a defense that has Mario, DeMeco, and Cushing. That's three guys, up-front and in the trenches, whom Cowher can scheme his defense around. He can work with that. I know he can. He buttered his bread off of in-the-trenches defense.

He's going to have Andre Johnson. He has a highly-rated NFL passer who currently isn't allowed to audible to anything but a run. He has workable talent in the area of running backs, and I bet he loves Vonta Leach and would use him more than Leach is being used right now.

McNair won't do it, though. He goes the route of safety and security. Steady wins the race. Just be patient and it all works out.

LOL....
 
GP said:
I seriously don't think any of those players you mentioned would begin looking at the franchise in a negative manner if Kubiak were fired at midnight tonight.

In fact, I think they would be glad. Because the guys you listed, IMO, are guys who handle their business. And they, too, should know that they, too, could also be let go if they aren't producing.

This franchise moves at a glacial pace when it comes to making big moves. I think the Carr-Schaub situation is the only exception. Which is weird, because it was done so quickly when compared to how moves are normally made. I've stated that this glacial pace mentality is good in some ways, but bad in others. It's bad right now, because Cowher says he won't deal with any team who still has a coach.

Cowher would probably love to coach a defense that has Mario, DeMeco, and Cushing. That's three guys, up-front and in the trenches, whom Cowher can scheme his defense around. He can work with that. I know he can. He buttered his bread off of in-the-trenches defense.

He's going to have Andre Johnson. He has a highly-rated NFL passer who currently isn't allowed to audible to anything but a run. He has workable talent in the area of running backs, and I bet he loves Vonta Leach and would use him more than Leach is being used right now.

McNair won't do it, though. He goes the route of safety and security. Steady wins the race. Just be patient and it all works out.

LOL....
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I don't know, man, the nasty look McNair had after the game was pretty telling. I think he has had enough.
 
I don't see it bad as all. If McNair has a coach in mind that is available. I see nothing wrong with going after it now..get a head start on next season. It sure would be better now than a couple of weels before all the college offseason hoopla .

maybe McNair is checking with Dan Reeves right now :thinking: (that is a joke)

but what will be will be
 
houstonspartan said:
Yep. That's what we have to get ready for. Whenever we do bring in a new coach, that's going to set us back at least two years. So, the question is, do we bring in a new coach now, or do we hope Kubiak pulls it together next season and give him another year? And, if we do give him another year and he doesn't pull it off, we'll fire him, but that would put us a year behind where we COULD HAVE BEEN had we fired him THIS year.

We, the fans are angry right now, but I would hate to be Bob McNair. He has a tough call.
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Miami, Atlanta, Denver, New Orleans, I could go on. Teams can switch coaches and immediately make the playoffs.
 
Jackie Chiles said:
Miami, Atlanta, Denver, New Orleans, I could go on. Teams can switch coaches and immediately make the playoffs.
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Did they change schemes? (asking because I really don't know) I think that is the biggest question. If we get a 4/3 coach, then hells yeah. If we get a 3/4, then no.
 
houstonspartan said:
I don't know, man, the nasty look McNair had after the game was pretty telling. I think he has had enough.
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I'd love to see a pic of this "nasty look" McNair apparently had these past 2 games. I missed it and besides, it'd make a good avatar. :)
 
blogkimmy said:
Did they change schemes? (asking because I really don't know) I think that is the biggest question. If we get a 4/3 coach, then hells yeah. If we get a 3/4, then no.
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Out of those teams that I mentioned I believe Miami did and I know Denver has this season. If we get a 3-4 DC that knows his stuff and gets our guys to be in the right place we will be just fine.
 
houstonspartan said:
I don't know, man, the nasty look McNair had after the game was pretty telling. I think he has had enough.
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Oh, I think you might have misunderstood.

I meant that McNair will do the predictable, which is to play "nice" and wait until Kubiak has finished the season.

McNair is predictable. And this team plays the same way. This team has HIS fingerprints and DNA all over it.

Bob McNair is the guy who plays blackjack one time, hits 21, and makes $20 bucks, and then walks away...never playing another single hand all night. He goes to bed later that night, and lays there with a huge a grin on his face, thinking that he really nailed the casino. LOL.

He's the guy who checks the air pressure in all four tires, every time before getting into the car. Adjusts the mirrors. Toots the horn. Like he's an airline pilot or something.

He's the guy who never strays from ordering the same old thing at the same old places he eats out at. He doesn't need a menu.

He's the guy who is a hitman's dream-come-true, never straying from his daily routine and always doing the same things at the same times. He's the guard in the video game who walks the same pattern, and you can count out how long it takes him to return to his post.

I can see why there have been a lot of fans coming here and saying that they are "done" with this team. With an owner like this, you know you have to basically LUCK your way into a good year.
 
GP said:
Oh, I think you might have misunderstood.

I meant that McNair will do the predictable, which is to play "nice" and wait until Kubiak has finished the season.

McNair is predictable. And this team plays the same way. This team has HIS fingerprints and DNA all over it.

Bob McNair is the guy who plays blackjack one time, hits 21, and makes $20 bucks, and then walks away...never playing another single hand all night. He goes to bed later that night, and lays there with a huge a grin on his face, thinking that he really nailed the casino. LOL.

He's the guy who checks the air pressure in all four tires, every time before getting into the car. Adjusts the mirrors. Toots the horn. Like he's an airline pilot or something.

He's the guy who never strays from ordering the same old thing at the same old places he eats out at. He doesn't need a menu.

He's the guy who is a hitman's dream-come-true, never straying from his daily routine and always doing the same things at the same times. He's the guard in the video game who walks the same pattern, and you can count out how long it takes him to return to his post.

I can see why there have been a lot of fans coming here and saying that they are "done" with this team. With an owner like this, you know you have to basically LUCK your way into a good year.
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LOL!! No, I understood you the first time.

I just think this may have been McNair's breaking point. He was humilated in his own house twice now, both on the national stage. Enough.

And, let's not forget that this man is a billionaire, so, I'm guessing he knows how to place a bet every now and then.
 
houstonspartan said:
LOL!! No, I understood you the first time.

I just think this may have been McNair's breaking point. He was humilated in his own house twice now, both on the national stage. Enough.

And, let's not forget that this man is a billionaire, so, I'm guessing he knows how to place a bet every now and then.
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Not sure how McNair got to where he's at.

But he does a great job with marketing the team. And this team is very squeeky clean in its player image off AND on the field, except for TJ doing a WWE taunt over Trent Green's limp body. LOL. Ah, memories....

Anyway, I think McNair handles BUSINESS very well. But the FOOTBALL side of it sure seems to lack in overall effectiveness in terms of producing a team who can compete on the field.

I wonder what would happen if we had (and good grief, I really do not "want" this guy) Tm Tebow? What if we had a squeeky clean white guy, a good Christian boy, with a strong jaw and poster-boy attributes, who could use his mobility to throw defenses off?

What if we didn't have the human sloth at QB?

Do we have Drew Bledsoe at QB? I am beginning to see the similarities a little bit. Oh well, if he got hurt...Orlovsky or Grossman could come in and pull a Tom Brady. Oh wait, but we're not going to the playoffs. And those two guys are not Tom Brady.

I get more depressed the more I type.
 
GP said:
Oh, I think you might have misunderstood.

I meant that McNair will do the predictable, which is to play "nice" and wait until Kubiak has finished the season.

McNair is predictable. And this team plays the same way. This team has HIS fingerprints and DNA all over it.

Bob McNair is the guy who plays blackjack one time, hits 21, and makes $20 bucks, and then walks away...never playing another single hand all night. He goes to bed later that night, and lays there with a huge a grin on his face, thinking that he really nailed the casino. LOL.

He's the guy who checks the air pressure in all four tires, every time before getting into the car. Adjusts the mirrors. Toots the horn. Like he's an airline pilot or something.

He's the guy who never strays from ordering the same old thing at the same old places he eats out at. He doesn't need a menu.

He's the guy who is a hitman's dream-come-true, never straying from his daily routine and always doing the same things at the same times. He's the guard in the video game who walks the same pattern, and you can count out how long it takes him to return to his post.

I can see why there have been a lot of fans coming here and saying that they are "done" with this team. With an owner like this, you know you have to basically LUCK your way into a good year.
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I hate to jump into your little soliloquy here, but Bob McNair is not the problem. He brought football back to Houston at some considerable expense, hired established football people, gave them money and got out of their way. When that didn't work, he cleaned house and hired young and upcoming football people, left a blank checkbook and got out of their way. You know what owner makes a big splash and gets name coaches all of the time? Daniel Snyder. Just about every year. His teams suck, too.
 
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