Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Brock can do a Vaseline commercial that he got from HEB .
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- Thread starter EllisUnit
- Start date
Brock can do a Vaseline commercial that he got from HEB .
You know they wouldn't leave? How?
You know they wouldn't leave? How?
Texian said they aren't going to leave. They're in line to take over for their current organizations. They wouldn't work for McNair & they've turned down several other suitors.
I was taking Texian's illustrious forecast at his word. And, for the record, it sounded reasonable.
Why didn't you ask him how he knew those guys wouldn't leave their orgs when you "Liked" this post?
it's post #228. Your "Like" is right there.
Texian
Hall of Fame
I was taking Texian's illustrious forecast at his word. And, for the record, it sounded reasonable.
Why didn't you ask him how he knew those guys wouldn't leave their orgs when you "Liked" this post?
it's post #228. Your "Like" is right there.
I should have.
I do believe anybody is available for the right price and if McNair was willing to let the new GM do his job without McNair's oversight, except in big $$$$ decisions.
I didn't want to highlight your backtracking & sidestepping... but yep, there it is.
I hang out on the Jags board way more than I should.
It's sad to say.... they sound like us.
It's sad to say.... they sound like us.
You'll get little argument from me on that.
Although there is the Cowher example where he couldn't be lured back to coaching, initially because his wife was ill and he wanted to spend more time with her. And then his kids were finishing college and he wanted to be around more for them.
LINK
So maybe not everyone can be bought.
Goatcheese
Texan
It's pretty ridiculous if Texans fans sound like Jags fans. The Jags are a genuinely bad team. The Texans are just painfully average and can't compete against the league's elite.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Yeah when your stuck with suck as luck, it happens. We just paid 72 million dollars for a QB who we could of picked up off the street for the league minimum. But hey atleast he has good hair and is a good talker at the podium.
I hate to defend Os... he has been aweful. But if we go out and get a QB that hasn't even played a full season, you have to expect growing pains. New system, new teammates, new coach. Os has looked good - for short periods of time. It's encouraging that one of those periods was in crunch time against the Colts.
Plus our O-line is a mess. We new it would be struggling before the season. Then our second round center got hurt. D.Brown is out longer than we hoped, now Newton... we wouldn't have a good O-line with those guys, we have a horrible one without them. That kills a young QB that tries to learn the new system and acclimate himself as a starting QB.
And to be fair - we didn't have many alternatives. After the Hoyer fiasco we had to change something. Draft a QB? With our late pick that was a crapshoot - plus rookies take a long time to develope. Sign another FA? Fitz? No real option here. Go with Savage? injury prone and the coaches had several seasons to look at him and didn't trust him.
In the end money isn't the deciding factor here. Os gave us a chance because he looked promising. Without him we pretty much knew we wouldn't go anywhere. With him we had a legitimate chance - and we still do. I just really hope he can turn it around. And I would love for us to get some O-line help somehow...
It's still early...and all that.
They're in first place...blah, blah, blah.
JJ is out...yada, yada, yada.
I get all that and I am not calling for O'Brien's head. But if it comes down to that at the end of the season, everyone must go. The GM, scouts, medical staff, ball boys. Real change so that whatever is really wrong can be flushed.
They're in first place...blah, blah, blah.
JJ is out...yada, yada, yada.
I get all that and I am not calling for O'Brien's head. But if it comes down to that at the end of the season, everyone must go. The GM, scouts, medical staff, ball boys. Real change so that whatever is really wrong can be flushed.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Atleast Hoyer looked good against bad teams, hell Brock can't even seem to do that.
I can't see McNair bailing on Obrien yet, it would surprise the hell out me.
I wish we would get a real offensive coordinator and let Obrien be a head coach and not try to be the "offensive guru" we were sold.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Some of the best head coaches weren't so called gurus . They are motivators of men and have an attention to details . None of them can win a SB without talent . Bob needs to stop trying to copy teams and find some good people .
Love the new avatar amigo!
Which bad teams has Brock not looked good against?
Texian
Hall of Fame
There is a lot of that. I've been preaching Texans mediocrity for awhile now. So for the record, I'm saying today that 2017 will be much like 2016 because McNair has pretty much exhausted his 2017 salary cap space with the Osweiler and Lamar Miller contracts and GTD money. In other words there is no money in 2017 to improve on 2016 and 2016 is another season of mediocre at best.
Isn't that the same argument you made when the Jags were killing it in the offseason?
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
Colts comes to mind. Hell I can't think of many games where he's looked good, average at times but rarely good.
Well, I thought he looked pretty good in the Colts game. The first qtr & a half, he looked like crap. But from midway through the 2nd qtr... I thought he looked pretty good. I was kinda hoping the way he played there would have carried over to the Broncos game.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Yeah not really talking about you, your stance as well as Steelb's are well established. But your statement assumes we'll need cap space to improve this team.
We might show improvement in 2017 just from sheer continuity. By all accounts, Brock SHOULD be here...which another year in the system learning should be good for him and it'll be the 1st time in BoB's tenure he and his offense will be going into the season with the same qb. That goes for the growth of Fuller and Miller as WR's in this system.
Add in the addition of Nick Martin on the offensive line, whom should be an upgrade.....the return of JJ and KJ to the defense and our draft picks in 2017..offense or defense..whichever way we decide to go...we could be better in 2017.
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Not really. When you think about it, like us, they expect better. And they have an early successful history (back in the Coughlin, Mark Brunell era) to reflect back on. They made the playoffs like 4-5 years in a row back then. Many of those fans remember those days and ***** about how the current owner has screwed things up. Just like we're bitching about how McNair's hirings have left us in mediocre-land.
Goatcheese
Texan
The Jags haven't had a winning record since 2007. Next season will mark 10 years without a winning season and there's no light at the end of the tunnel. During that period the Texans have 2 losing seasons, but have made the playoffs 3 (probably 4) times, and have 2 playoff wins to show for it.
If you are a Texans fan and sound even remotely close to how miserable a Jags fan is with the state of their franchise, you have lost all perspective.
I see your point now. They should be way more pissed than we should.
Even if the cap is in as bad of shape that you think, there are plenty of other ways to improve the team, most of which Mr. Tex identified. Another way is to improve the coaching. I'd love to see Kyle Shannahan here as OC/ Asst HC. Let OB be HC without trying to be more than that. Would be another change tho and push us another year down the road.
I'm getting too old to see many more years pushed down the line. Sure hope OB and Os figure it out soon
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
This thread still holds true, when we make it to the play offs we won't see the crap Bears or crap Lions. I am a homer, you all know that but damn I am getting tired of beating second tier teams, and looking like the Browns against top tier teams. We need better leadership and coaching. I mean OB yells at his ST coach but can't seem to coach his 72 million dollar QB up any better than he has.
Sad thing is with a Brees or Brady we would be undefeated, even with no Watt we have a very talented defense.
Sad thing is with a Brees or Brady we would be undefeated, even with no Watt we have a very talented defense.
Many have been saying that for three years. Rick should have gone when Gary left, but rick stabbed gary in the back or really I guess just became buddies with Cal and the Mcnairs. Until the Texans get a GM with backbone that won't be McNairs puppet or yes man we will be no better off than we are now.
All year I've been saying there's too much "new" on the team.
But with Brown & Newton back in the lineup we should have had enough experience to give Brock room to work. too bad they only played two games together. now the entire right side is "new"
Still, we've got Hopkins, Fiedorowicz, & Griffin who are familiar with the system.
Anyway, I like the way the line is coming together. I like how Lamar & Blue are running. I like getting the young'ns involved.
if we had a rookie QB I'd be resolved to him struggling the rest of the season. But Brock is not a rookie.
I don't fault Brock completely for his stats so far. I am disappointed he looks so easily rattled.
I do expect him to take a big leap over the next eight games. by playoff time, he should be looking like Derek Carr (three year starter). if he's looking like Blake Bortles, we're in deep doodoo.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Those crap Bears just beat the top team in the NFL, not saying that makes them the top team or even a contender but it does show that phrase "Any given Sunday (Thursday, Monday)" holds true.
I want to see what we look like coming out of the bye week, seen teams be completely different, for better and worse, after it and to me this is where the true test starts. I didn't expect us to beat Pats or Vikings, to early in the season with to many new pieces, I was hoping we could beat Denver but wasn't holding my breath. Now every game from here to the playoffs are games Texans can win.
We may not yet be on Viking or Pats level but I firmly believe we are on Raiders and even GB level with how Rogers is playing. And saying we would be undeated with Brady or Brees is stupid. Of course they are, right now at least, better QBs than Brock, that's why their teams don't let them go and sign them to huge contracts. I'm sure lots of teams say "If we only had Hopkins or Watt we would be......" You go to war with the army you have.
Vinnie
with an I E
Still not sad.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
With the way or Defense plays, even as much as they are hung out to dry by the Offense i could see us undefeated with With a Brady or Brees, nothing stupid about it.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
You're missing my point, players like Brees or Brady make bad teams acceptable, good teams great and great teams unbeatable. I 100% agree that with one of them we would be in the real hunt for a Super Bowl right now, not sure about undeated but maybe. What I was saying is stupid is talking about if we had them. Pretty much any team has a shot with a QB like that just as any hockey team could have won with Wayne Gretzky or any basketball team with Michael Jordan provided the rest of the team is at least decent.
However most teams have to break the bank for a top of the line QB like that and then have nothing else. Look at the Colts, Saints and even Packers, they all broke the bank to keep their elite QB and have pretty much nothing else to build the rest of the team with. Pats are lucky that Brady cares more about winning and building his legacy than he does about chasing the big paycheck so he was willing to take a cut in order to help the team, like him or hate him that says a lot about his commitment to his team. Honestly it's smart if you think about it, the man could retire tomorrow and would still be a hero in New England for the rest of his life, he'd never have to buy his own drinks or dinner again lol.
Brock may not be the best but he was the best we could get out of a bad situation. We needed a QB and we needed one fast, the draft was out because we were so far back and lots other teams needed a QB ahead of us and to trade up we would have had to trade with the Titans and they would have taken us to the cleaners in a trade. Plus we had other needs than just QB that signing Brock allowed us to work on.
It's not like a drafted QB would have been any more a risk than Brock and what we would have given up in future trades would have hurt us for years if the rookie didn't work out. Worst case with Brock is we're on the hook for two years and next years QB draft might just have some better prospects, at the very least there are fewer teams in the QB hunt. You can't fix everything in one draft but signing a QB in FA helped us fix more problems than just trying to sell the farm and hope for the best.
EllisUnit
Vote RED!!!
To give the guy 72 million with never meeting him and the small sample of his play they had just seems like jumping the gun for me.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
See that 72 million gets thrown around a lot but we didn't give him 72 million in reality we only gave have him 32 million. We have an escape clause after 2 years so we aren't on the hook for the rest. That's only 16 million a year and keep in mind the Broncos were willing to match, or at least come close, but Osweiler didn't give them a chance to.
Also they had met him, we had a lot of joint practice sessions with Denver and in those Denver ran Osweiler instead of Manning because, well, it was Payton Manning, so OB and Smith saw a lot of him. In regular session the sample may have been small but it was impressive. He, arguably, outplayed and out QBed Brady when it counted in the play offs and even the game he got benched on you can make a good case that the poor offense play wasn't his fault.
I think what a lot of people don't realize is the price for QBs has gone way up. With the contracts that Luck, Brees and Rogers got don't be surprised if 50+ is just the price of doing business for about any non-drafted QB in the next couple of years, unless it's someone that proved to have a meltdown like Hoyer or a play like butt fumble.
Vikings lucked out that Bradford only cost them a first and a fourth round because Philly so badly wanted to start shining up their new draft pick and at that point their wasn't near as many in the market for a high dollar QB so Viking got him for a steal. Even then he's getting hammered after the loss to bears and now everyone is saying they miss Bridgewater. To me Osweiler wasn't so much the Texans over spending as he was just the first of the new QB price tag.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
My mistake, forgot the 5 million roster bonus. The point is his contract is actually set up to be very Texans friendly, the big salary cap hits 20 and 21, don't come till the last two years. I think the plan is given him this session to get adjusted and then next session if he still isn't producing then we cut him.
For us as fans that may suck because we really wanted to have a chance at Texans at hometown super bowl, and to be fair they are 5-3, but from a realistic point of view a full session fir him and the other new pieces to learn to gel isn't an outrageous thing to ask.
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Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
The Texans needed to address the QB position, seriously address it, and for the 1st time in a long, long time, they finally do. And if you take a look around the NFL, it's not easy finding a quality QB.
To me, I don't give a flying **** how much money a player makes. I care about performance. Brock Osweiler was going to make a boat load of money whether he played in Houston, Denver or wherever. That's just how the world works any more. And don't kid yourself that John Elway wasn't going to pay him.
No one cares about the money if Osweiler is putting up stats that don't have him rated as one of the 2 or 3 worst QBs in the game. THAT'S the problem. Not the money.
It isn't that the Texans gave him all this money without ever meeting him because like I said, Denver was going to give it to him too. The problem is, the Texans finally take a chance at QB, and so far, they've missed, because it IS hard to find a QB, whether it's FA signings or draft picks.
The problem isn't Osweiler making $72M or $37M or even if he made $5M. The problem is he's not a very good QB. At least so far.
Luckily the Texans aren't on the hook contract wise, where it ruins their cap, thus making it hard to build a team, but they can't let the miss going after Osweiler make them hesitant to pull the trigger again, thus keeping us in QB limbo for years and years. That's what I fear the most out of this.
To me, I don't give a flying **** how much money a player makes. I care about performance. Brock Osweiler was going to make a boat load of money whether he played in Houston, Denver or wherever. That's just how the world works any more. And don't kid yourself that John Elway wasn't going to pay him.
No one cares about the money if Osweiler is putting up stats that don't have him rated as one of the 2 or 3 worst QBs in the game. THAT'S the problem. Not the money.
It isn't that the Texans gave him all this money without ever meeting him because like I said, Denver was going to give it to him too. The problem is, the Texans finally take a chance at QB, and so far, they've missed, because it IS hard to find a QB, whether it's FA signings or draft picks.
The problem isn't Osweiler making $72M or $37M or even if he made $5M. The problem is he's not a very good QB. At least so far.
Luckily the Texans aren't on the hook contract wise, where it ruins their cap, thus making it hard to build a team, but they can't let the miss going after Osweiler make them hesitant to pull the trigger again, thus keeping us in QB limbo for years and years. That's what I fear the most out of this.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
100% agree, I was very happy, and still am, to see Texans finally roll the dice and make a gutsy move to improve the team. Even if this one doesn't work out, and it still might, at least it shows that now they are making an effort to be an elite team and really that's all we can ask for.
Let's not forget that one reason we are so disappointed in the offense is because we had such high hopes with all the changes they made. This time last year we were just hoping that the offense could stay on the field long enough to let the defense rest a minute.
My biggest fear is the same as yours, that if Brock is a bust that the front office will go back to playing it safe and not be willing to roll the dice any more.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
At the halfway mark in the season without the team's best player and injuries decimating the offensive line:
#2 Strength of Schedule, #9 Strength of Victory
8th best record in the league, #3 seed in AFC
Played 4 of the top 6 teams in the NFL in first half of season
Top 5 defense, Top 10 rushing offense
TE's have 50 motherf***ing catches already
First half of season opponents = .580
Second half of season opponents = .462
But yeah, this team absolutely sucks. Because they actually played a pretty tough schedule, especially on the road, while missing key starters on both the lines.
But they didn't look pretty enough in their wins or losses. So they suck.
#2 Strength of Schedule, #9 Strength of Victory
8th best record in the league, #3 seed in AFC
Played 4 of the top 6 teams in the NFL in first half of season
Top 5 defense, Top 10 rushing offense
TE's have 50 motherf***ing catches already
First half of season opponents = .580
Second half of season opponents = .462
But yeah, this team absolutely sucks. Because they actually played a pretty tough schedule, especially on the road, while missing key starters on both the lines.
But they didn't look pretty enough in their wins or losses. So they suck.
FuzzyLogic
Mathematically Possible
Would like this post twice if allowed.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
This is kinda where I'm at with all this. I'm over how pretty it looks, just win games.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
JB - I'm just curious, what makes you think that Shanahan would consider a lateral move to come back to the Texans, and more importantly, if his contract with the Falcons extends beyond this season (which I'm guessing it does, although I don't know it for a fact), why would the Falcons let him leave for a similar position with another NFL team?
Oh I don't think he would... I would just like to see it. Just a pipe dream
I frequently see this as a defense against the $72 million. In the "failed" scenario, I am not sure a $37 million two-year stop-gap quarterback is anything to feel good about.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Your fears are justified. The one minor disagreement we have is the amount of money. In essence the money has tied the hands and salary cap of the Texans for 2 years. It will be 2018 before the Texans are cap friendly and in a position to start all over again. Another fear is McNair's history and pattern of behavior repeating itself. Many draftable QBs have come and gone since the self destruction of Matt Schaub. One can only assume that the Texans due diligence and study of those QBs, or lack thereof, was as poor as the Osweiler decision. Fearfully I say, that seems to be the only way the McNair knows how to do business.
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