Waiting til 2018 for a Qb?

[Mollywhopper]

Cassel won 11 games in one nfl season & 10 in another. He had plenty of ability.

So now you're playing up Cassel? Which is it then, Cassel as a point for or against?

I don't think he graded as a first or second round QB. He's a project with less than ideal size. Didn't play the toughest competition, they drew up plays in the sand (if I remember correctly), his arm is good not great.

I'd have had no problem taking him with 3-1, but I didn't lose any sleep over it & I'm actually feeling pretty good about it after the season CjF had.

I think he did (2nd). I think you undervalue(d) him.

He has perfectly adequate size (exact same as Rodgers), he smoked that less than tougher competition and he did it with his admittedly good arm and ridiculous quick release, and he was seen roundly as a moldable and heady talent capable of getting over the learning curve of his college offense.

This is all losing sight of the original point though which was that surely Jimmy has had the opportunity to benefit from learning from Brady & Belichick.

 

[thunderkyss]

You said Hoyer didn't benefit. I'd say both Keenum and Hoyer benefited from their apprentice time. The odds of an undrafted QB starting in the NFL, other than due to injury, are horrifically bad. Hoyer and Keenum have both been healthy starters on 2 teams.

Well Ricky McNair did get a draft pick for Keenum & we paid Hoyer $6M/yr so yeah, I guess. I'm still not seeing Garoppolo worth our first.

Maybe I just don't like him on a personal level. I mean when was the last time you saw QB that looked like this?

 

[thunderkyss]

So now you're playing up Cassel? Which is it then, Cassel as a point for or against?

Cassel is a point against. My post was just to demonstrate Cassel had ability. They don't get to the NFL without proving they have ample ability. Different abilities, sure. But they've all got ability.

Cassel's failure was not for a lack of ability... but heck, he started for five teams now right?

 

[TexansSeminole]

What are you suggesting about his look?

 

[thunderkyss]

What are you suggesting about his look?

He should be a model. Most QBs don't care about their looks that much. Last one I remember that did, was David Carr.


& yeah, I'd hit it.

 

[Mollywhopper]

Cassel is a point against. My post was just to demonstrate Cassel had ability. They don't get to the NFL without proving they have ample ability. Different abilities, sure. But they've all got ability.

Cassel's failure was not for a lack of ability... but heck, he started for five teams now right?

A point against the influence of the Pats program even though he was coached up from a 7th round pick to a 10 & 11 game winner? Ok.

And I never said Cassel didn't have ability.

 

[Mollywhopper]

He should be a model. Most QBs don't care about their looks that much. Last one I remember that did, was David Carr.


& yeah, I'd hit it.

Trying to think of the last one I remember that thought he was a model ...

... ah forget it, it'll come to me later.

 

[ROO]

& yeah, I'd hit it.

Funny Stuff!

 

[thunderkyss]

Trying to think of the last one I remember that thought he was a model ...

... ah forget it, it'll come to me later.

Rugged looking dude. You'll find plenty of football players who'll get paid to model clothes.

If he weren't among the GOATs, he wouldn't be married to Giselle & he wouldn't be endorsed to wear spiffy duds.

Garoppolo probably should have gone into modeling

 

[TexansSeminole]

Yeah...

Quality argument.

 

[Mollywhopper]

Rugged looking dude. You'll find plenty of football players who'll get paid to model clothes.

If he weren't among the GOATs, he wouldn't be married to Giselle & he wouldn't be endorsed to wear spiffy duds.

Garoppolo probably should have gone into modeling

You'll not find plenty of football players, none really, who model the brands Brady does. We're not talking The North Face here.

And curious, where are you getting that Garoppolo 'cares about his looks so much'?

 

[ROO]

Rugged looking dude. You'll find plenty of football players who'll get paid to model clothes.

If he weren't among the GOATs, he wouldn't be married to Giselle & he wouldn't be endorsed to wear spiffy duds.

Garoppolo probably should have gone into modeling

So you are saying you would hit Garoppolo but not this??? C'mon TK, that's BS and you know it!

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

Rugged looking dude. You'll find plenty of football players who'll get paid to model clothes.

If he weren't among the GOATs, he wouldn't be married to Giselle & he wouldn't be endorsed to wear spiffy duds.

Garoppolo probably should have gone into modeling

Sounds like you have a little crush and that much sexy so close to home is too uncomfortable....lol

 

[Texan_fan_13]

So rumors make it true?

Go back & look at how Texan_fan_13 said stated it & ask him how he knows.

Well i don't know what's true or not I suppose, but i do listen a lot to sports radio and this seems to be the long accepted narrative.

But I think when i sit back and look at some of the moves involves it seems to make some manner of sense being Hoodie traded a pick to jump infront of us. If he thought we were taking someone else why jump us. So I"m okay to believe that was the original plan. I mean do we really think that Obrien's plan was really Hoyer and Fitzpatrick (remember he wanted brian hoyer and he ended up in Cleveland). But no I know zero other than what my brain tells me, which is we need a real QB.

But from the cap perspective this works as well because he's still on his Rookie contract so its just draft picks. No cap hit and if it works you pay him or franchise him. If it doesn't your out a few draft picks

 

[Norg]

every year there is a potential Diamond in the sea of Rubys

I tell u what these days a lot of the QB's are born into a QB system when there in Pee wee all the way up to college and pros

im on the boat we are stuck with Brock or savage so we might has help whoever and give him better protection and Weapons

 

[DocBar]

There isn't one in next year draft that will be a difference maker in 2017 if you wait.

I'm perfectly fine with going into 2017 with the QBs already on the roster.

 

[ObsiWan]

& yeah, I'd hit it.

 

[Texansphan]

every year there is a potential Diamond in the sea of Rubys

I tell u what these days a lot of the QB's are born into a QB system when there in Pee wee all the way up to college and pros

im on the boat we are stuck with Brock or savage so we might has help whoever and give him better protection and Weapons

This is what you have to do with whoever is your signal caller but you still keep taking shots at the draft on guys you like - just in the off chance you hit on a good one. You also get them a solid running game to take some pressure off them.
The guys that don't work out can still get you trades even if they are only backup material and if you do hit on a good one, one of the guys already on your roster can also be traded.

 

[76Texan]

I'm perfectly fine with going into 2017 with the QBs already on the roster.

While I think both Savage and Osweiler can improve some and the Texans can add help on the O-line and maybe another spot or two, it's hard to count on Savage's health or the level of improvement from Osweiler.

The Texans might not get lucky on the O-line this time regarding to injury. (But this is besides the point.)

There are guys in this draft that I Iike more than all the guys on the current roster as prospects. (Comparing to their respective draft.)

For that, I wouldn't mind the Texans taking 2, 3 of them.
I don't want to trade up too much for any of them, at most with an additional third round pick.

I still haven't finished my study of all of them yet. I want to see if I can watch at least 8 of their games each (especially their worst games) before coming to a final conclusion.

 

[thunderkyss]

Well i don't know what's true or not I suppose, but i do listen a lot to sports radio and this seems to be the long accepted narrative.

But I think when i sit back and look at some of the moves involves it seems to make some manner of sense being Hoodie traded a pick to jump infront of us. If he thought we were taking someone else why jump us.

New England didn't jump in front of us. They didn't trade a pick to move up. That was their pick, last pick of the 2nd round, before our pick, first pick of the third round.

I mean do we really think that Obrien's plan was really Hoyer and Fitzpatrick (remember he wanted brian hoyer and he ended up in Cleveland). But no I know zero other than what my brain tells me, which is we need a real QB.

Yes. Brian Hoyer was the back up in New England when O'b was there. He's the guy O'brien spent time with, not Mallett (Godsey was his coach).

When O'b interviewed for head coaching jobs in 2013 he told one team (according to John McClain) that Brian Hoyer is the answer to their QB problem. He did not get that job.

We hired O'b as our headcoach in 2014. Hoyer was already under contract to the Browns. He had a 10-6 record as their starter & the story is they wanted to extend him, he was a FA in 2015 & wanted to be let go... then we signed him for more money than it made sense to sign him ($6M, not $18/yr, but still a lot of money for Hoyer) in 2015.

 

[Corrosion]

I'm perfectly fine with going into 2017 with the QBs already on the roster.

I think that going into the season with the QB's we have on the roster today is .... asking for a repeat performance of this past season.

Sure , we made the playoffs and beat a team who lost what I think should have been the league MVP .... If HWWNBMv2.0 is playing in the opening round , The Texans lose that game just like the first matchup in Mexico .... and don't bother going to Foxboro to get curb stomped by the Pats.


Oz + Savage = 9-7 and a first round exit .... I'd rather go 2-14 and have a shot at a premium QB prospect in the following draft rather than .... another exercise in futility..

 

[Number19]

I think that going into the season with the QB's we have on the roster today is .... asking for a repeat performance of this past season.

Sure , we made the playoffs and beat a team who lost what I think should have been the league MVP .... If HWWNBMv2.0 is playing in the opening round , The Texans lose that game just like the first matchup in Mexico .... and don't bother going to Foxboro to get curb stomped by the Pats.


Oz + Savage = 9-7 and a first round exit .... I'd rather go 2-14 and have a shot at a premium QB prospect in the following draft rather than .... another exercise in futility..

You're forgetting Weeden. He's the best QB on the roster.

 

[thunderkyss]

I think that going into the season with the QB's we have on the roster today is .... asking for a repeat performance of this past season.

Sure , we made the playoffs and beat a team who lost what I think should have been the league MVP .... If HWWNBMv2.0 is playing in the opening round , The Texans lose that game just like the first matchup in Mexico .... and don't bother going to Foxboro to get curb stomped by the Pats.


Oz + Savage = 9-7 and a first round exit .... I'd rather go 2-14 and have a shot at a premium QB prospect in the following draft rather than .... another exercise in futility..

I think that's one possible scenario. I don't think it's the most likely though.

It's not a popular opinion, but our defense did not win any games for us. Our run game did not win any games for us. Our QB damn sure didn't win any games for us. Every win was a combination of them all doing what needs to be done to win. I can't imagine the defense being better, but for the last two years, they've been pretty good. Getting similar production next season should be a reasonable assumption. The offense needs to play better & that's across the board, not just the QB, whoever it ends up being. Year two for our rookie WRs, our starting RB, & Osweiler should help. & I didn't see much difference with Savage, but it'll be, "he's basically a rookie" all over again.

We beat KC, we beat Detroit, we were in the GB & Oakland games in the fourth qtr. Even in the playoffs we were in the New England game in the 4th qtr (not saying that we were going to win it).

I still think we should be looking for Osweiler's replacement, ready to start in 2017.

But we didn't exit the first round. Even with a healthy Derek Carr it's possible we would have advanced. Had we got to play KC in the divisional round, I think we could have advanced to the AFC Championship game.

Granted it looked ugly, but we still won a bunch of games in 2016.

 

[powda]

Let me echo corrosion's opinion. Sure, we might get better at certain positions because of youth. We might also deal with more injuries. We might also face a better division. 1-2 turnovers might be the difference in 1-2 wins. Did we get those last year or lose them? We now have a head coach who's focus on game day will be more devoted to the offense. We have a new defensive coordinator.

What's my point? Invest in a qb or expect more of the same. AND KEEP INVESTING IN QB TILL WE GET IT RIGHT.

 

[thunderkyss]

Let me echo corrosion's opinion. Sure, we might get better at certain positions because of youth. We might also deal with more injuries. We might also face a better division. 1-2 turnovers might be the difference in 1-2 wins. Did we get those last year or lose them? We now have a head coach who's focus on game day will be more devoted to the offense. We have a new defensive coordinator.

What's my point? Invest in a qb or expect more of the same. AND KEEP INVESTING IN QB TILL WE GET IT RIGHT.

Eh.... I'll wait to see what O'b thinks about Osweiler. We'll know soon enough.

If O'b believes in Osweiler I'll be excited to finally see year two of his offense. If he doesn't, I hope our run game gets a lot better.

But we rarely know a player after one year.

 

[powda]

If he doesn't, I hope our run game gets a lot better.

If he doesnt i want a better running game AND ANOTHER QB OPTION.

I dont know what happens when you sweep to much dirt under the rug ,but i guess we'll find out.

Deja vu.

 

[Speedy]

Eh.... I'll wait to see what O'b thinks about Osweiler. We'll know soon enough.

If O'b believes in Osweiler I'll be excited to finally see year two of his offense. If he doesn't, I hope our run game gets a lot better.

But we rarely know a player after one year.

I don't think what OB thinks is worth much anyway. Trades for Mallett, gets rid of Fitz for Hoyer, benches Hoyer in game 1, won't pull him for jack in the playoff game that he played worse in than the game he got benched, now we get the awesomeness that is Os who gets benched for Savage. OB hasn't shown he has a freaking clue about a whole lot of anything when it comes to QB.

 

[austins23]

If HWWNBMv2.0 is playing in the opening round , The Texans lose that game just like the first matchup in Mexico

Call me crazy, a homer, whatever, but Carr wasn't beating that defense that day.

 

[Corrosion]

Call me crazy, a homer, whatever, but Carr wasn't beating that defense that day.

He didn't have to beat that defense .... Just do a little more than Brock , which wasn't really much (14/25 168 1td) , and I expect he would have done much better than Cook's 18/45 161 1td and 3 picks.


I'll give the defense credit , they played really well .... but Connor Cook aint HWWNBMv2.0. He should have been the league MVP .....

 

[austins23]

HHWNBM

Ok guys, I've been trying to figure this one out for a while. I came to the site long after this. I've deduced that it is a reference to Carr, but for the life of me, I can't solve it.

And I agree that HHWNBMv2.0 should have been MVP. That was an unfortunate injury for him and the Raiders. And he would have done better than Cook, but I'll stand by my assessment that he wasn't beating that defense that day.

 

[JB]

Ok guys, I've been trying to figure this one out for a while. I came to the site long after this. I've deduced that it is a reference to Carr, but for the life of me, I can't solve it.

And I agree that HHWNBMv2.0 should have been MVP. That was an unfortunate injury for him and the Raiders. And he would have done better than Cook, but I'll stand by my assessment that he wasn't beating that defense that day.

Not sure about that one. It's usually HWSNBN

 

[Corrosion]

Ok guys, I've been trying to figure this one out for a while. I came to the site long after this. I've deduced that it is a reference to Carr, but for the life of me, I can't solve it.

And I agree that HHWNBMv2.0 should have been MVP. That was an unfortunate injury for him and the Raiders. And he would have done better than Cook, but I'll stand by my assessment that he wasn't beating that defense that day.

He Who Will Not Be Mentioned (v2.0 is Derek) some put an S = Shall

 

[steelbtexan]

He didn't have to beat that defense .... Just do a little more than Brock , which wasn't really much (14/25 168 1td) , and I expect he would have done much better than Cook's 18/45 161 1td and 3 picks.


I'll give the defense credit , they played really well .... but Connor Cook aint HWWNBMv2.0. He should have been the league MVP .....

Ryan/Brady say hi!

 

[steelbtexan]

I don't think what OB thinks is worth much anyway. Trades for Mallett, gets rid of Fitz for Hoyer, benches Hoyer in game 1, won't pull him for jack in the playoff game that he played worse in than the game he got benched, now we get the awesomeness that is Os who gets benched for Savage. OB hasn't shown he has a freaking clue about a whole lot of anything when it comes to QB.

With the crap that most likely will be playing QB next yr, I feel like Ricky is setting up BOB to fail.

Just like he set up Kubiak to fail by not drafting a QB to succeed Schaub.

 

[Speedy]

With the crap that most likely will be playing QB next yr, I feel like Ricky is setting up BOB to fail.

Just like he set up Kubiak to fail by not drafting a QB to succeed Schaub.

But why? If your coach fails, thus the team fails, don't you fail? I don't buy that. I think Rick and his scouting department just suck. And the coach may be a good "coach" but his talent evaluation sucks too.

 

[Corrosion]

Ryan/Brady say hi!

The Raiders post HWWNBMv2.0 showed how valuable he was ..... The Pats beat teams with multiple quarterbacks this season - Just look what that 3rd string scrub did to the Texans when both Garappolo & Tom Terrific were out ...

With the crap that most likely will be playing QB next yr, I feel like Ricky is setting up BOB to fail.

Just like he set up Kubiak to fail by not drafting a QB to succeed Schaub.

I expect we'll have hot garbage at QB next season , beginning to end .....

As for Schaub , it was kinda hard to foresee his demise .... He came out and played pretty well those first two games , then it all went to ..... sh!t. (Yeah I know CND warned us)


Its a QB starved league , just look how many teams are looking for their guy ..... hell Cleveland has been looking for a decade ? Minnesota gave up a first and fourth for a retread .... SF is still paying Kaepernick a bundle of duckets to act like a moron ..... Case Keenum was still playing last season & TJ Yates is still hanging onto a roster spot.

 

[jradMIT]

All this Rick Smith stuff sucks as it pertains to Qb's is way over the top. Like 80% of the teams with good QB's lucked into them when they had a top pick. Its that simple, only a handful of them were later picks. Basically the Texans have only been terrible once in the last 10 years with 2 wins and bad only once with 6 wins. So the #1 and #11 pick over the last 10 years, and there wasn't a QB either of those times that was good on the board.

 

[thunderkyss]

All this Rick Smith stuff sucks as it pertains to Qb's is way over the top. Like 80% of the teams with good QB's lucked into them when they had a top pick. Its that simple, only a handful of them were later picks. Basically the Texans have only been terrible once in the last 10 years with 2 wins and bad only once with 6 wins. So the #1 and #11 pick over the last 10 years, and there wasn't a QB either of those times that was good on the board.

The thing I gotta ask myself... Did Mariotta decide to stay in school one more year because he didn't want to be a Texans?

 

[JB]

The thing I gotta ask myself... Did Mariotta decide to stay in school one more year because he didn't want to be a Texans?

I doubt he gave the Texans a thought

 

[Texecutioner]

IMO, teams should draft a QB in the 3rd or 4th round every time one they like drops. Quantity over quality when drafting QBs. With that comes no heavy pressures of expectations and allows for open competition. If your extra drafted QBs suck, cut them, if you do a great job drafting and have QBs that won't last on PS turn them into more draft picks.

I would prefer to go into 2017 with an open competition between Os, Savage and a middle round pick.

If that is the plan, our season is pretty much null and void. What is your other plan behind that then? Draft heavy on Oline? Go crazy in FA to stack the defense even stronger? Drafting a mid round QB gives you really low odds to find a quality starter. If that doesn't happen, you need to have a team that is built to rely on other strengths where you need to be elite on those strengths. Like best pass rush in the league, best set of DB's, one of the strongest Olines and running games, and etc. You've got to be built to win the hard way. You can win that way, but in the playoffs it becomes extremely difficult when you have to get in match ups with Brady, Ben, or Derek Carr now who should have a great team again I expect. Your defense needs to be like the Broncos.

 

[gs27]

If that is the plan, our season is pretty much null and void. What is your other plan behind that then? Draft heavy on Oline? Go crazy in FA to stack the defense even stronger? Drafting a mid round QB gives you really low odds to find a quality starter. If that doesn't happen, you need to have a team that is built to rely on other strengths where you need to be elite on those strengths. Like best pass rush in the league, best set of DB's, one of the strongest Olines and running games, and etc. You've got to be built to win the hard way. You can win that way, but in the playoffs it becomes extremely difficult when you have to get in match ups with Brady, Ben, or Derek Carr now who should have a great team again I expect. Your defense needs to be like the Broncos.

I want to see an open competition between Savage and Os. The Texans have a way of making knee jerk reactions with ultimatums for their off season to keep their fans coming back each year. Last year we over invested to try to get faster on offense. I don't want to see the same happen this year with a QB. Teams that try to chase greatness run in circles and never catch it. If you plan your off season with logic instead of emotion the greatness will come to you.

The Texans have a lot of talent on the team. The defense could be better than the 2015 Broncos next year with JJ, Mercilus and Clowney all on the field. Our offense had a 1st year QB, a putrid line and mostly rookies playing at WR. I am willing to see what Savage and Os can do with another year and an improved line. I typically do not like going after FA O-lineman but this year is an exception. Spend 14M per year and reunite Zeitler and Wagner from their Wisconsin days to immediately shore up our right side. The receivers should improve drastically in year 2. The top of this years draft is weak for the O-line and QBs, but is stacked with impactful defensive players.

3rd and 4th round QBs give you low odds of finding a starter but so does drafting a 1st rounder and throwing them into a struggling offense.

Young, Leinart, Cutler, Russel, Quinn, Ryan, Flacco, Stafford, Sanchez, Bradford, Tebow, Newton, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Luck, RGIII, Tannehill, Weeden, Manuel, Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater, Winston, Mariota, Goff, Wentz, Lynch

I don't like my odds spending a 1st round pick to pull one of the names above from a hat either.

Draft a guy in the 3rd or 4th round and let him compete. Maybe he ends up a Wilson, Dak or Cousins, or he doesn't, but at least it was a later round pick. Having said that, if a QB that OB really likes falls to us in the 1st round you take him. Just don't make an ultimatum to keep the fans happy. We can win it all with JJ back, a largely improved O-Line, a more experienced group of WRs, and slightly improved QB play.

 

[Texecutioner]

Do you know what the odds are like to find a Dak or a Wilson? For everyone of those guys, there are a gazillion Christian Ponders and TJ Yates types of players that you never hear about again.

And with the group of players you listed above having Ryan, Flacco, and Stafford on that list it sounds like you won't be satisfied unless the prospect is Aaron Rodgers, Brady, or Manning. Ryan, Flacco, and Stafford would all be game changing impactful upgrades here. You can't just search for a QB thinking if he won't be elite in my eyes, then he isn't worth picking up. There is usually only like 4 or 5 guys that look to have that much potential every ten years.

 

[Norg]

Tbo yeah this is our last year with the win now window with our aging defense we need a qb now to lead us to the superbowl

So rather that be the high price free agents

Gleenon Romo or cousins

OR the re treads

Schaub Mallett Fitz keenum

We need another option at backup just in case Brock does not pan out

 

[Speedy]

All this Rick Smith stuff sucks as it pertains to Qb's is way over the top. Like 80% of the teams with good QB's lucked into them when they had a top pick. Its that simple, only a handful of them were later picks. Basically the Texans have only been terrible once in the last 10 years with 2 wins and bad only once with 6 wins. So the #1 and #11 pick over the last 10 years, and there wasn't a QB either of those times that was good on the board.

When you've drafted just 3 QBs in 10 years, none higher than 4, you don't even really give yourself a chance to find, or "luck" into a QB. That's not a good thing and is squarely on whoever makes that decision.

 

[steelbtexan]

If that is the plan, our season is pretty much null and void. What is your other plan behind that then? Draft heavy on Oline? Go crazy in FA to stack the defense even stronger? Drafting a mid round QB gives you really low odds to find a quality starter. If that doesn't happen, you need to have a team that is built to rely on other strengths where you need to be elite on those strengths. Like best pass rush in the league, best set of DB's, one of the strongest Olines and running games, and etc. You've got to be built to win the hard way. You can win that way, but in the playoffs it becomes extremely difficult when you have to get in match ups with Brady, Ben, or Derek Carr now who should have a great team again I expect. Your defense needs to be like the Broncos.

Last yr the defense was close to that good. Demps/KJo getting hurt really hurt the defense and they were still really good. With Watt coming back (if healthy) they could be as good as Denver's.

Sad part is with Os at QB it doesn't matter.

 

[powda]

Haven't seen anybody mention tyrod taylor.

 

[ObsiWan]

Haven't seen anybody mention tyrod taylor.

not in this thread but someone did ask about him in the "what's your plan for QB" thread.
Personally, I don't think O'Brien would know what to do with him.

 

[powda]

not in this thread but someone did ask about him in the "what's your plan for QB" thread.
Personally, I don't think O'Brien would know what to do with him.

Fair enough. Guess I just missed it.

So what fa qbs make the list as possible help this year?

Romo
Cutler
Taylor
Fitz

Am i missing someone?

As much as I want a succession of rookie qbs every couple of years, i also believe a rookie qb drafted this year isnt help till '18. A qb drafted next year is no help till '19.

I dont think ob has that much time. I dont believe our defense's window of dominance will last that long.

In some sick way, ob's attention to the qb position will prove to be as reliable as Mallett's alarm clock. Lil late.

 

[steelbtexan]

When you've drafted just 3 QBs in 10 years, none higher than 4, you don't even really give yourself a chance to find, or "luck" into a QB. That's not a good thing and is squarely on whoever makes that decision.

I'm glad I read thru this thread for this post.

Like a thousand times.

 

[powda]

Let me answer my own question about fa qb's

http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2017QB.php

What an ugly list.