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The New New JaDeveon Clowney Thread

michaelm said:
I don't see it getting much higher than it is right now personally but I want him on my team in '19.
If I don't get a good offer next year I franchise him again then let him hit the market after the '20 season
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This seems to be the plan.

Smart move by Gaine. IMHO
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
The biggest lesson might be to never suck enough to have to pick number 1 overall. If there is not a QB worthy of 1.1 pretty much the pick is untradeable and long-term that non-QB needs to be a generational talent...(imo) Clowney is a half tier to full tier better than Mario Williams, and still not elite enough to justify his selection nor pure contract to keep him. The problem is that there is not an obvious, clear better player available in FA and probably not the draft.
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Continue pattern, flush and repeat.

Also see a lot of posts who just say tag him, that solves issue. Now it’s more like Pandora’s box, collective bargaining agreement is a joke, along with everything else happening this game is changing faster that teams can manage like they use to.
 
beerlover said:
Continue pattern, flush and repeat.

Also see a lot of posts who just say tag him, that solves issue. Now it’s more like Pandora’s box, collective bargaining agreement is a joke, along with everything else happening this game is changing faster that teams can manage like they use to.
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Yep, times are changing and hopefully the Texans org change with the times. Teams that build strictly by the draft aren't going to win SB's anymore. You've also got to take some chances on character guys.
 
Clowney is at peak value this off-season. I think the Texans are fearful of offering a long-term deal b/c his injury history could rear its ugly head and saddle them with an unwanted salary. If they tag him and he plays, they're playing a game of risk.

I'm still juggling with this thought.....will the Texans defense going to fall flat without Clowney? Personally, if the Texans draft a couple of solid CB's I don't think they miss Clowney since I think they'd be the same defense whether he's on the field or not. Just my opinion guys. I think the Texans could find a better edge setter than Clowney in the draft.
 
In my opinion, the Texans should franchise Clowney. Then trade him for a 4th and 6th round pick in this year's draft after he signs. This way, the Texans and Clowney both get the best deal for each. Clowney is not going to play another 5 years. His knees won't last that long. And the Texans have needs they have to fill. The Texans could use that money to pay Mathieu and Jackson and then get some veterans at offensive tackle and corner back out of free agency. And God knows the Texans could use 2 more picks in the draft. Maybe find value at running back, wide receiver or defensive end. We shall see how things unfold. Let's hope for a very good free agency and draft.
 
JamTex said:
In my opinion, the Texans should franchise Clowney. Then trade him for a 4th and 6th round pick in this year's draft after he signs. This way, the Texans and Clowney both get the best deal for each. Clowney is not going to play another 5 years. His knees won't last that long. And the Texans have needs they have to fill. The Texans could use that money to pay Mathieu and Jackson and then get some veterans at offensive tackle and corner back out of free agency. And God knows the Texans could use 2 more picks in the draft. Maybe find value at running back, wide receiver or defensive end. We shall see how things unfold. Let's hope for a very good free agency and draft.
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No way I do that deal for only a 4th and 6th
Clowney has more value to me than that in 2019.
 
JamTex said:
In my opinion, the Texans should franchise Clowney. Then trade him for a 4th and 6th round pick in this year's draft after he signs. This way, the Texans and Clowney both get the best deal for each. Clowney is not going to play another 5 years. His knees won't last that long. And the Texans have needs they have to fill. The Texans could use that money to pay Mathieu and Jackson and then get some veterans at offensive tackle and corner back out of free agency. And God knows the Texans could use 2 more picks in the draft. Maybe find value at running back, wide receiver or defensive end. We shall see how things unfold. Let's hope for a very good free agency and draft.
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You set your sights awfully low
 
JB said:
You set your sights awfully low
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So what do you think Clowney is worth? A 3rd, 4th and 6th? Maybe that, but I doubt the Texans could get any more, if they could get that for him. We shall see what they do.
 
JamTex said:
So what do you think Clowney is worth? A 3rd, 4th and 6th? Maybe that, but I doubt the Texans could get any more, if they could get that for him. We shall see what they do.
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I think Clowney could bring a RD2 and RD4.....maybe another pick in 2020. It'll mostly depend on who joins in on the bidding process. Clowney will have interest and more than likely will get low-balled on offers until one team gets serious.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
I think Clowney could bring a RD2 and RD4.....maybe another pick in 2020. It'll mostly depend on who joins in on the bidding process. Clowney will have interest and more than likely will get low-balled on offers until one team gets serious.
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It only takes one team.... I think he will have plenty of suitors if the Texans decide to trade him this year... I'm not so sure that they will but if they do, even in this defensive rich talent draft he will bring more than what you propose or they will keep him or let him walk
 
An expensive, complicated game of tag is about to unfold between the Texans and outside linebacker Jadeveon Clowney.

Tuesday marks the first day NFL teams can use the franchise tag to prevent a player from becoming an unrestricted free agent. If the Texans are unable to negotiate a blockbuster contract extension for Clowney — an undertaking that could cost them $100 million or more over the length of a new deal — by a March 5 deadline to use the tag, then the AFC South champions are expected to designate the former top overall pick as their franchise player, according to sources not authorized to speak publicly, who also say no new deal is imminent for the Pro Bowler.

Although a new contract hasn’t been ruled out this year, the franchise tag would buy the Texans and Clowney more time. They would have until a July 16 NFL deadline to negotiate a new deal. Otherwise, Clowney would be slated to play the 2019 season under the franchise tag.

It will be a costly exercise to keep Clowney on the roster under the franchise tag, and it would likely involve his utilizing his right to miss part or all of the offseason and training camp.

How much it will cost to make Clowney the franchise player will hinge on which position he’s classified as playing the majority of his snaps. Under a projected $190 million salary cap for this league year, the defensive end franchise tag would be roughly $17.144 million. The projected linebacker designation is $14.953 million.

The franchise-tag number is derived by either an average of the top five salaries at a position or 120 percent of a player’s previous salary, whichever figure is higher.

Another scenario, albeit one considered unlikely: If a team signed Clowney to an offer sheet and the Texans opted not to match, they would be owed two first-round draft picks.

The Texans have employed the franchise tag only once in their history, using the designation in 2009 for cornerback Dunta Robinson when former general manager Rick Smith was running the personnel department.

Now, as general manager Brian Gaine enters his second year in charge of the Texans’ personnel department, it’s up to him, working in tandem with coach Bill O’Brien, to make the big decision on Clowney.

The Texans paid Clowney an extra $1 million at the end of last season to settle a dispute on how he was classified under the fifth-year club option. He was originally due $12.306 million.

It’s up to the NFL management council to determine which position Clowney should be classified under depending on the amount of snaps he lined up at defensive end and linebacker.

Clowney played 795 snaps as a pure defensive lineman last season, according to Pro Football Focus. The analytics-based site counted 255 outside linebacker snaps for Clowney.

It’s possible the Texans and Clowney could split the difference between the defensive end and linebacker tags and reach a financial compromise. If the Texans opted to use the franchise tag again on Clowney in 2020, they would have to pay him 120 percent of the 2019 compensation.

Figuring out how much to pay Clowney is complicated.

Last year, Chicago Bears pass rusher Khalil Mack signed a six-year, $141 million deal that includes $90 million guaranteed with a $34 million signing bonus.

And Los Angeles Rams defensive tackle Aaron Donald signed a six-year, $135 million contract that includes $86.892 million guaranteed with a $40 million signing bonus.

The Texans aren’t expected to pay Clowney anywhere near that much.

During the NFL scouting combine next week, Texans senior vice president of football administration Chris Olsen and Clowney’s Mississippi-based agent, Bus Cook, are expected to meet to discuss Clowney.

The Texans want Clowney back. How they go about securing his services remains a fluid situation.
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https://www.houstonchronicle.com/sp...anchise-tag-for-Jadeveon-Clowney-13626065.php
 
DocBar said:
What lesson did they not learn? To not ever have the #1 overall pick again?
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Simply put, evaluate prospect who encompasses everything they hope to become within the constraints of salary cap (you have to project franchise price tag moving forward). Highest graded position of need (at time was clearly QB) if these do not match you should do a better job leveraging draft slot for more/future draft picks, if not BPA, which in this case was Mack even though Donald, with hindsight of Watt’s injuries should have been considered as well.

Bottom line if said player isn’t exact fit figure out way to maneuver to a prospect who does and fits under cap moving forward that fits team makeup.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
Clowney is at peak value this off-season. I think the Texans are fearful of offering a long-term deal b/c his injury history could rear its ugly head and saddle them with an unwanted salary. If they tag him and he plays, they're playing a game of risk.

I'm still juggling with this thought.....will the Texans defense going to fall flat without Clowney? Personally, if the Texans draft a couple of solid CB's I don't think they miss Clowney since I think they'd be the same defense whether he's on the field or not. Just my opinion guys. I think the Texans could find a better edge setter than Clowney in the draft.
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I think so. One more year of wear on his knees only lowers his value. I wish they'd sign him to a team friendly deal that maybe he accepts because he knows his injury history might lower his value on the market next year. if not see what kind of picks they can get.

I think the defense will be ok. Obviously he's hard to replace but Watt appears to be back and Crennel is adept at finding talent (Reid, Cunningham, Ojiafor, etc). Plus not paying him opens some capspace.
 
JB said:
You set your sights awfully low
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Fat girls need lovin too.

I really wonder why posters are so hell bent on getting rid of one of the few pro bowl level players on this team. I would say Clowney is a top 10 DE because of his ability to play multiple positions on the DL and plays a big part in stopping the run. He is also good for 8-9 sacks a yr.

Is he JJ Watt nope. But OL know that they are going to have a full day trying to block Clowney all day.
 
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beerlover said:
Simply put, evaluate prospect who encompasses everything they hope to become within the constraints of salary cap (you have to project franchise price tag moving forward). Highest graded position of need (at time was clearly QB) if these do not match you should do a better job leveraging draft slot for more/future draft picks, if not BPA, which in this case was Mack even though Donald, with hindsight of Watt’s injuries should have been considered as well.

Bottom line if said player isn’t exact fit figure out way to maneuver to a prospect who does and fits under cap moving forward that fits team makeup.
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I remember you were all over Donald in that draft.

Good job

Go back and check out my mock the yr Trent Brown was coming out.
 
steelbtexan said:
Fat girls need lovin too.

I really wonder why posters are so hell bent on getting rid of one of the few pro bowl level players on this team. I would say Clowney is a top 10 DE because of his ability to play multiple positions on the DL and plays a big part in stopping the run. He is also good for 8-9 sacks a yr.

Is he JJ Watt nope. But OL know that they are going to have a full day trying to block Clowney all day.
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I think this is the Texans view also
 
steelbtexan said:
I hope so

Trading him for a 4th/6th LMAO, I'm glad this guy isn't running the team. Can you imagine how fast BB would be on the phone to get Clowney on the Pats?
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BB would never get the chance... Pats always draft too low to win that one
 
Shishkabob said:
who said that?
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According to Peter King of NBC’s Football Morning in America, the Texans might be less inclined to try to do a long-term deal with Jadeveon Clowney, at least this year. Saying Clowney isn’t “the worker bee” other members of that defense are, the Texans may want to see how Clowney reacts to making more than $1 million per game. If he continues to work, produce (and stay healthy), they might be more willing to do it later.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...-not-be-in-a-rush-to-extend-jadeveon-clowney/
 
TheKDog said:
According to Peter King of NBC’s Football Morning in America, the Texans might be less inclined to try to do a long-term deal with Jadeveon Clowney, at least this year. Saying Clowney isn’t “the worker bee” other members of that defense are, the Texans may want to see how Clowney reacts to making more than $1 million per game. If he continues to work, produce (and stay healthy), they might be more willing to do it later.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.c...-not-be-in-a-rush-to-extend-jadeveon-clowney/
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Peter King is also known in the industry for making up stories and being flat out wrong a lot of the time.

But it also could mean the Texans don't want to sign Clowney to a long term contract that he wants. Gaine is on record saying he wants to sign Clowney to a long term deal, but I think the disparity lies in the total dollar amount. Clowney obviously wants to be one of the top paid defensive players, close to Mack/ Donald money, I doubt the Texans want to pay him that right now because among other things he hasn't been as productive as those guys. They might be more inclined to do so if he plays under the tag and has a 15-20 sack season, but I don't think that means they don't want to sign him long term. I think it's they don't want to sign him to the megadeal long term that he feels he deserves.
 
Shishkabob said:
Peter King is also known in the industry for making up stories and being flat out wrong a lot of the time.

But it also could mean the Texans don't want to sign Clowney to a long term contract that he wants. Gaine is on record saying he wants to sign Clowney to a long term deal, but I think the disparity lies in the total dollar amount. Clowney obviously wants to be one of the top paid defensive players, close to Mack/ Donald money, I doubt the Texans want to pay him that right now because among other things he hasn't been as productive as those guys. They might be more inclined to do so if he plays under the tag and has a 15-20 sack season, but I don't think that means they don't want to sign him long term. I think it's they don't want to sign him to the megadeal long term that he feels he deserves.
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Ok fair enough, they don't want to sign him to a very big long-term deal.

If Clowney doesn't want to take a discount (assuming his market value is somewhat near Mack level), then they either have to tag or trade him.

The issue isn't really fans bent on trading him, it's that the Texans don't think he's worth a big level multi-year contract.
 
TheKDog said:
Ok fair enough, they don't want to sign him to a very big long-term deal.

If Clowney doesn't want to take a discount (assuming his market value is somewhat near Mack level), then they either have to tag or trade him.

The issue isn't really fans bent on trading him, it's that the Texans don't think he's worth a big level multi-year contract.
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Yea I think the Texans just want to stay away from the elite level contract that he wants, and would most likely get on the open market. From what I have heard the Texans are in the Von Miller range with him, which is like $20-30 short of Mack and Donald.

Both sides seem to be in a difficult place, I think the Texans want to pay him fairly, but he and his agent know there is more money out there because that is the nature of FA, and when you're talking $30 less that is a very significant amount. Both sides also know the situation with the knee it could last another 7-8 years or it could go this year or next. So Clowney wants the largest contract possible, because there might not be a next and the Texans want to not completely handicap themselves if it doesn't hold up.
 
Whether you attribute it to work ethic, injury, or anything else, Clowney has not had a double-digit sack season since his sophomore season in college: 2012- It seems insane to give a guy with that kind of consistent, limited production an elite guaranteed contract. He is definitely a disruptive player, but I have never understood (going back to the draft following his 3 sack season as a junior) why he seems to be the one football player that is never evaluated on statistical production.
 
dalemurphy said:
Whether you attribute it to work ethic, injury, or anything else, Clowney has not had a double-digit sack season since his sophomore season in college: 2012- It seems insane to give a guy with that kind of consistent, limited production an elite guaranteed contract. He is definitely a disruptive player, but I have never understood (going back to the draft following his 3 sack season as a junior) why he seems to be the one football player that is never evaluated on statistical production.
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He's really good against the run though. He's decent at pass rush, but he helped the Texans D be one of the best against the run. He's also improving every year as a pass rusher.
 
TheKDog said:
He's really good against the run though. He's decent at pass rush, but he helped the Texans D be one of the best against the run. He's also improving every year as a pass rusher.
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... but nobody pays a DE a $100 million contract ($20 mil/year) because he is good against the run. Clowney is certainly a good player, and I think we should franchise tag him this year... but committing that much of the cap space long term on a player with a degenerative knee, who is good versus the run and might one day have a career year 10 sack season defies logic, IMO.
 
dalemurphy said:
... but nobody pays a DE a $100 million contract ($20 mil/year) because he is good against the run. Clowney is certainly a good player, and I think we should franchise tag him this year... but committing that much of the cap space long term on a player with a degenerative knee, who is good versus the run and might one day have a career year 10 sack season defies logic, IMO.
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Good to see you back

Dale
 
dalemurphy said:
... but nobody pays a DE a $100 million contract ($20 mil/year) because he is good against the run. Clowney is certainly a good player, and I think we should franchise tag him this year... but committing that much of the cap space long term on a player with a degenerative knee, who is good versus the run and might one day have a career year 10 sack season defies logic, IMO.
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Then trade him. His value is highest now
 
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2019-free-agency-profile-jadeveon-clowney

2019 Free Agency Profile: Jadeveon Clowney
BY PFF ANALYSIS TEAM • HOUSTON TEXANS • JADEVEON CLOWNEY • JAN 25, 2019
USATSI_11892383_168384674_lowres.jpg

Jadeveon Clowney had a tough start to his career with injury limiting him to just 144 snaps in his rookie year and 559 the following season, but he has played over 800 snaps in each of the last three years and has improved his pass-rushing grade every season he has been in the league. He generated his highest-graded season of his career this year (88.0) and posted career highs in run-defense grade (91.2), pass-rushing grade (78.8) and sacks (9).
 
maverick512000 said:
Yeah, they kind of did.

Edit: Let me clarify they may not have expected him to be like Watt in style and type of player but they expected him to put up similar stats. Basically the idea was you can't stop both of them and it was suppose to take the entire O line just for those two.
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Who expected Clowney to be DMVP and a first ballot hall of famer? That’s what similar stats would get him. Silly for anyone to expect that.
 
maverick512000 said:
So are you happy with the production we have gotten out of Clowney? Not being a smartass I actually am curious.
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I am. Anyone not happy had unrealistic expectations or wanted someone else. He’s been great. It wasn’t his fault he was injured his first year. That was a major injury and he’s put in the work and overcame it. I think some of you guys put way too much stock in sacks. The guy is a flat out beast. He’s considered the best Possible FA out there for a reason. Haters gonna hate.
 
TheKDog said:
Ok fair enough, they don't want to sign him to a very big long-term deal.

If Clowney doesn't want to take a discount (assuming his market value is somewhat near Mack level), then they either have to tag or trade him.

The issue isn't really fans bent on trading him, it's that the Texans don't think he's worth a big level multi-year contract.
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Or they let him walk and use the money elsewhere
 
mussop said:
I am. Anyone not happy had unrealistic expectations or wanted someone else. He’s been great. It wasn’t his fault he was injured his first year. That was a major injury and he’s put in the work and overcame it. I think some of you guys put way too much stock in sacks. The guy is a flat out beast. He’s considered the best Possible FA out there for a reason. Haters gonna hate.
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I am happy with the production we have gotten out of Clowney... However, we are now talking about 3x the cap $ commitment after 5 years of wear and tear. I'm not sure how anything I have written could be construed as "hate." I am just suggesting being responsible- you know, the way teams like New England and Pittsburgh have done the past 20 years. I actually want to keep him this year. We have the cap room to do it... We have free agents to sign to fill other holes... This gives the organization time to prepare for his exit. Next year, we let him walk and plan to receive a 3rd round compensatory pick as a result.
 
TheKDog said:
Why not trade him for picks instead of losing him for nothing?
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I would prefer that, but the Texans would have to tag him and him sign the tender in order to do so. I was just saying they have the option of letting him walk ala Mario.
 
Clowney has been good....he hasn't ever been RD1-01 great. The Texans defense as a whole has been outstanding in some seasons since the Watt and Clowney seasons but there is one common denominator that has plagued the defense for far too long......they cannot make critical stops when it's the most important. With Watt and no Clowney, Clowney and no Watt or with Watt and Clowney, this defense cannot make an impact stop when the game is on the line for the majority of times.

Watt is under a reasonable contract but I'm just not inclined to say that Clowney has earned a better pay day or the right to tie up the cap space for the next 5 years. I haven't heard Clowney come out and say, I'll give the Texans a team friendly deal for standing behind me during my first 2 seasons so they have room to maneuver and make the team better. I think Clowney and his agent would like to see him get a contract that announces he's the best OLB/DE in the game......and therein lies the rub.

I'm a firm believer that tagging Clowney this season for I think 16-17M is big money for his production. I'd much rather tag and trade (if possible) and gain 2 or maybe 3 picks spread out over this draft and 2020. In the meantime, I'd use that money to sign LeVeon Bell since I could see his impact on the offense being much greater than Clowney's impact on the defense.

The Texans have Watt but they don't have a LeVeon Bell in the backfield nor have they since Foster. Texans defenses have played well without Watt and Clowney in the past but they've never found the solution to not having Foster in the backfield.....now there's a chance in the FA market. This would be a commitment to winning.
 
JB said:
Have you ever heard any player say this?
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Nope! Just Making my point as to why I would tag and trade Clowney. He's not worth the tag price and he's certainly not worth the asking price of his agent. Setting money aside, I'm also very concerned at the probable length of their requested contract. This would have Cushing cap nightmare written all over it.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
Nope! Just Making my point as to why I would tag and trade Clowney. He's not worth the tag price and he's certainly not worth the asking price of his agent. Setting money aside, I'm also very concerned at the probable length of their requested contract. This would have Cushing cap nightmare written all over it.
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tag and trade is the hard part... if you tag best be ready to pay
 
I think JD's personality works against him as far as fan perception of him. If he was breathing into a bag with a psychotic Mike Singletary look in his eyes, everyone would love him and his 'non-stop' motor. Instead he's usually got some kind of goofball grin on his face. I think he hustles plenty and work ethic shouldn't factor into the decision of what to do with him.
 
Max said:
I think JD's personality works against him as far as fan perception of him. If he was breathing into a bag with a psychotic Mike Singletary look in his eyes, everyone would love him and his 'non-stop' motor. Instead he's usually got some kind of goofball grin on his face. I think he hustles plenty and work ethic shouldn't factor into the decision of what to do with him.
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Come on man, no one in their right mind would think of him as Mike Singletary. Don't even do that.

Clowney is pretty good, but he is simply not going to be worth the contract another team will pay him. He doesn't dominate games like Von Miller or Calais Campbell when they are at their best. Guys like Clowney and his tier generally end up being the most overpaid guys in the league, because they get paid like elite level players but aren't capable of performing as elite guys.
 
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