That thought will give me nightmares ! If they truly had Howard rated above Dillard .... we are doomed !
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State of the O-line
- Thread starter jradMIT
- Start date
That thought will give me nightmares ! If they truly had Howard rated above Dillard .... we are doomed !
Good find Doc ! I love it that he was state champ wrestler, and that he was a classroom scholar .... but his short area movement, (seven league strides), are curiously long and inefficient !
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Disagree, Dillard lack of experience with run blocking and therefore lack of basic fundamentals would scare the hell out of me if he was a Texan. Yes he maybe the better athlete overall, not sure I'm convinced of that either, but I just don't see him as being that much, if at all, better than Howard. People keep going on about how Dillard was listed as an instant starter but even when you look at the break down of those numbers there was only a .5 difference between them. Dillard barely met the qualifications to be listed as a instant starter and Howard barely missed them.
I'm not sure whether you feel Howard is more powerful than Dillard, or is more tenacious, or has had the advantage of better coaching, or what exactly .... but the coaches immediately put these guys on a weight training regimen. I know that Howard was an option QB, and a TE, etc., but a guy that makes it to the pros, almost without fail, is the superior athlete in his high school. I don't want to berate Howard .... I hope he turns out to be a perennial pro-bowler. It is just that, since the Oilers drafted Munchak with the 8th pick in 1982 draft, I've been stuck on offensive linemen. I pay the most attention to them .... and I never played, or gave much thought to the line at all. Every collegiate game that's on, I will watch long enough to check for special talent. I honestly don't know if I've ever seen a better pair of feet than Dillard has .... ever ! Anyway, what's done is done, and I shouldn't relitigate this issue. One final thought .... you can increase a guy's strength .... but Vince Lombardi could not teach Dillard's feet to Howard !
throwANDREtheBALL
Waterboy
Maverick, where did you find these numbers ?
Very interesting if you've got something to back this up
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I get it but let me ask you this question. Do you trust Devlin to be able to coach a guy from basically high school level, speaking about his run blocking, to NFL level before Watson gets killed out there? Howard at least has the basics down and just needs to be fine tuned to NFL level.
Howard
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/tytus-howard?id=3219484f-5743-2152-432d-da3c484cb3f8
Dillard
https://www.nfl.com/prospects/andre-dillard?id=32194449-4c18-6167-8a82-fd2a79031894
It's actually a .37 difference between them, I rounded up.
throwANDREtheBALL
Waterboy
thanks bro
I didn't really know anything about Devlin. He coached the Eagles line for 9 years. I remember it was good when D'Brickishaw Ferguson and Nick Mangold, (both perennial Pro Bowlers), were there. He coached U of Toledo for 2 years. He was a semifinalist for the Outland Trophy, but drafted late in the 5th round. His combine numbers reflect a severe lack of athleticism .... so maybe he's brilliant .... or maybe he doesn't place that much emphasis on athletic linemen .... I don't know .... but surely he has a goodly portion of influence when it comes to drafting OLinemen .... sorry for calling you Shirley !
Jets not Eagles... OL coach for 2 years, not 9
Texansballer74
The Marine
Lol but he would be pass blocking unless Obrien wants to get him killed with more designed QB runs.
Watson is more likely to get killed by bad pass blocking than bad run blocking.
You know this, or atleast you should know this.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Not necessarily true.
A good running game takes much of the passing game pressure off the O line.
D can't tee off on your QB is they have to respect the run.
You know this or at least you should know this.
banned1976
sleeper mode
So what’s changed?Not necessarily true.
A good running game takes much of the passing game pressure off the O line.
D can't tee off on your QB is they have to respect the run.
You know this or at least you should know this.
The cliches are just relics from a distant past. “Defense wins championships”, “establish the run to set up the pass”, and so on.
Its all been about only one thing and those that read Jerry Kramer’s book Instant Replay knows what that one thing is.
Not necessarily true.
A good running game takes much of the passing game pressure off the O line.
D can't tee off on your QB is they have to respect the run.
You know this or at least you should know this.
No run game is going to stop a guy like Watt from getting to the QB. he may tackle a RB on the way to the QB, but make no mistake he 1st and foremost rushes the passer.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Evidently, he was signed to play center.
But it's interesting to see how much weight he gained between his freshman and sophomore year!
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cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
That is precisely the point. Make the rusher think stop the run first. That will slow the rush down.
Refusing to acknowledge this doesn't change the fact.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Up to this point nothing has changed but the roster. The narratives focus (mine) is on the fact that Howard is a better run blocker than Dillard, at this point in time.
Steel wanted Dillard, I think Howard was the better choice for our needs.
It will not be settled here but on the playing field.
So Kramer wrote a book that is now the pro-football coaches training manual? ( I haven't read it but I remain skeptical nonetheless.) Doubt Lombardi let Kramer design his game plans.
Kramer, a great player, was the beneficiary of Lombardi's power sweep football, not vice versa.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
I'm not going to argue about it because until we see both of them on the actual game day field all this is speculation but for me I just don't see that much difference between the two. People are talking about Dillard as though he was one of the top rated linemen to be in the modern NFL but the numbers just don't back that up. Again there was a .37 difference between them, if Howard had done 2 more bench presses or shaved another .05 off his dash time then you might not see any difference. Dillard is listed as an "instant starter" but he barely made the cut for that, if the OT draft had been a little bit deeper I could very easily see him as a round two projection.
Sorry but from the film I've seen he just didn't impress me as this amazing up and coming LT. Don't get me wrong Howard didn't either, I wanted Brown drafted at 23 then trade up into early 2nd for Howard or whoever, but at least Howard has his fundamentals down and seems hungry for it. Also I saw a mean streak in Howard that I just didn't see in Dillard. This is purely personal opinion but watching Howard it was almost like someone getting to the QB was a personal offense to him, Dillard it was more "I just need to hold this guy long enough for the QB to throw". Its true you can't coach speed and, in this case, you can't coach feet but you also can't really coach a mean streak into a player. There have been other guys with say JJ's size but very few with his "That QB just insulted my mother and hit on my girlfriend" attitude.
Sorry but from the film I've seen he just didn't impress me as this amazing up and coming LT. Don't get me wrong Howard didn't either, I wanted Brown drafted at 23 then trade up into early 2nd for Howard or whoever, but at least Howard has his fundamentals down and seems hungry for it. Also I saw a mean streak in Howard that I just didn't see in Dillard. This is purely personal opinion but watching Howard it was almost like someone getting to the QB was a personal offense to him, Dillard it was more "I just need to hold this guy long enough for the QB to throw". Its true you can't coach speed and, in this case, you can't coach feet but you also can't really coach a mean streak into a player. There have been other guys with say JJ's size but very few with his "That QB just insulted my mother and hit on my girlfriend" attitude.
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That is precisely the point. Make the rusher think stop the run first. That will slow the rush down.
Refusing to acknowledge this doesn't change the fact.
If you're going to throw the ball 30 + times a game, you better have a LT that can pass block or you will see what you saw last year.
HaveMercy
Passing Through
Very interesting!
I'm very intrigued by DJ Coker's background as a wrestler. That indicates a skillset that includes good use of leverage, quick anticipation of & reaction to an opponent's moves, knowing how to use his hands, and power from his legs, core, and arms.
These are the things that Curly Culp, Oilers nose tackle, had going for him in the NFL after being an NCAA heavyweight wrestling champion. I loved watching Curly play. His wrestling background served him well on the football field.
I'm excited to watch this young man develop. I hope he learns really fast because, if they put him on the practice squad, he may get snatched away by another team.
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HaveMercy
Passing Through
Very interesting!
I'm very intrigued by DJ Coker's background as a wrestler. That indicates a skillset that includes good use of leverage, quick anticipation of & reaction to an opponent's moves, knowing how to use his hands, and power from his legs, core, and arms.
These are the things that Curly Culp, Oilers nose tackle, had going for him in the NFL after being a NCAA heavyweight wrestling champion. I loved watching Curly play. His wrestling background served him well on the football field.
I'm excited to watch this young man develop. I hope he learns the NFL game really fast because, if they put on the practice squad, he may get snatched away by another team.
Right that was to be the main priority which was to first find an OLT who could protect Watsons blind side but at a lesser priority find a tackle who could open holes for the running backs.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Having grown up in KC, a rabid Chiefs fan as a youth, Culp was an overwhelming favorite. Because he was virtually immovable, he was known to the fans in KC as the "Fire Plug" and the "Stump."
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Being stubborn are you.
Getting a ground game going will reduce the number of passes required of your QB.
And when he does pass he should have the extra second to complete the pass.
But you already knew that.
Do we have the RB's to get the ground game going is the question. I'm in the 'show me' frame of mind when it comes to Foreman. Reports are that he is good to go.....but is he?
Yep. It's a passing league. And people can't assume Dillard will be a bad run blocker
HaveMercy
Passing Through
It would be great if DJ Coker turns into an Offensive Center version of Curly Culp. At Coker's height (6'2") and weight (listed at 310), he should be able to get underneath the Defender's pads and into his chest easier than either Martin or Mancz.
I wonder how long Coker's arms are.
HaveMercy
Passing Through
Being stubborn are you.
Getting a ground game going will reduce the number of passes required of your QB.
And when he does pass he should have the extra second to complete the pass.
But you already knew that.
Do we have the RB's to get the ground game going is the question. I'm in the 'show me' frame of mind when it comes to Foreman. Reports are that he is good to go.....but is he?
I think we're all worried about Foreman. No matter what they say, it will be a surprise if he's able to contribute much.
We can hope, but I never got the Ford Cobra I wanted, either. Or the Golden Retriever. Or...
Texas Jake
Rookie
Question is how much of that was OB and how much was Rick Smith?
Apparently you are right. O disagree with this philosophy, protecting Watson should have been job #1. Hopefully Watson can stay healthy while Devlin teaches Howard how to pass block.
Comforting isn't it.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
He can give you one big hug with his 33.5 inch arms
Being stubborn are you.
Getting a ground game going will reduce the number of passes required of your QB.
And when he does pass he should have the extra second to complete the pass.
But you already knew that.
Do we have the RB's to get the ground game going is the question. I'm in the 'show me' frame of mind when it comes to Foreman. Reports are that he is good to go.....but is he?
This isn't Lombardi's NFL. It's a pass 1st league now.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
So Howard doesn't possess the ability to pass block? Or his pass blocking ability didn't translate to the NFL?
Such a ludicrous statement imo. Your disdain of all Things Texans is showing
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Aaron Wilson@AaronWilson_NFL 15m15 minutes ago
Texans rookie tackle Max Scharping as a taller lineman also playing guard, says pad level is on his mind a lot when he lines up inside
*********************************
Much more difficult for a player that tall to get used to and even be able to maintain a low pad level.
Texans rookie tackle Max Scharping as a taller lineman also playing guard, says pad level is on his mind a lot when he lines up inside
*********************************
Much more difficult for a player that tall to get used to and even be able to maintain a low pad level.
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
Yeah, that Starr guy couldn't pass worth a chit.
Only compiled a career completion percentage of 57.4 RIP
From what I saw at the Sr Bowl he uses a summo wrestling technique in pass pro. He does have decent feet though not as good Dillard's.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
This wall of worry about where to plug and play Howard/Scharping is overshadowing fact, Texans finally addressed OT with pair of high picks.
Don’t think it matters, really just long as they’re upgrades wherever. It’s damn stinking hard and expensive to build a great OL. Gaine/O’Brian overdrafted to be absolutely sure they improved this too long overlooked position. Overall I’m understanding and forgiving.
Don’t think it matters, really just long as they’re upgrades wherever. It’s damn stinking hard and expensive to build a great OL. Gaine/O’Brian overdrafted to be absolutely sure they improved this too long overlooked position. Overall I’m understanding and forgiving.
From Lance Z's profile of Howard
Howard is a gifted athlete with rare quickness and fluidity as both a run and pass blocker
Can't say that for Dillard. IIRC you were high on Howard in the second, but because they didn't trade up for your man-crush Dillard, now Howard can't play?
Also from Lance
- Knee-bender who is extremely smooth and fluid in pass sets
- Plenty of quickness in slides to meet speed specialists at top of the rush arc
- Mirrors to keep defenders in front of him like a defensive specialist in hoops
- Attacks rushers with jabs and counters rather than predictable punch
- Maintains posture while re-setting hands, which protects against counters
- Locked down Auburn's edge rushers for most of the matchup
- Operates with quickness and timing to thrive on second level as run blocker
- Continues working hips and feet to gain positioning advantage after engagement
- Plays with pad level and lateral speed to get to toughest backside blocks
- Excellent potential as move blocker up to second level
- Good job to steer and seal the edge for sweeps
I'll take the opinion of Lance Z over yours anyday, especially on OL play
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Texansballer74
The Marine
Most of it is on the coach. And I don't blame him for wanting to run with his own philosophy as well as the type of personnel he wants.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Texansballer74
The Marine
Even if he was using Sumo wrestling technique, it worked so... Keep the QB upright, right?
SteelB is just upset because they did something different than what he wanted
Dejaview
All Pro
Wouldn’t reach around Earl Campbell’s 36 inch thighs though.
Texansballer74
The Marine
As will all Texan supporters... nothing new there
HaveMercy
Passing Through
I'm not a particularly good source of historical details, but it seems to me that the skillset of Kubes' OL was geared towards Zone Blocking. OB wanted a different kind of OL.
Then again, I could be wrong.
