To be fair, he could have played more if Dak wasn't playing so well.
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Romo is retiring what now?
- Thread starter Rocketzzz13
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To be fair, he could have played more if Dak wasn't playing so well.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Did you even read the posts before or follow the conversation or did you do a search for Brady on the page and then half ass a response? I wasn't suggesting we will find a QB in the late rounds that will be the next Brady the point, and conversation in general, was the value of draft picks vs cap space and that just because someone is draft in the first rounds doesn't mean they have a better chance of not being a bust.
Next time maybe try following along and reading what was said before you jump into the conversation.
Texan in Japan
Rookie
I wasn't a Romo fan, because as others have said he's fragile and older. However, I started to warm up to the idea, mainly because there was little else. I do like Savage and believe if he can stay healthy, he has a chance to be our starter. He has to get rid of the ball sooner and get lucky. Weeden in a perfect back-up and if we can get a rookie in 1 or 2, then I say we role. Don't want Kap, don't think he would fit in the offense. Cutler might work, but has been hurt a bunch and not sure he has the attitude we need. Maybe a trade for a vet like Rivers, if Chargers decide to rebuild with youth to compete with Rams for fans.
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Gosh, there are so manyon this board it's nauseating.
To be fair, there's plenty of
Is there a Kurt Warner or Carson Palmer out there? Someone who was pretty good at one time, sacked for whatever reason, & is primed for a comeback?
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
Oh really?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
This is an old article but I doubt things have changed much in the last 5 years and I picked it because it best broke down all the positions as compared to just say QB or RB. If you can find more recent data showing the trend reversed please show me.
It's also ironic that the top two choices in the draft the year this was wrote were RGIII and Luck, again showing the whole hit or miss thing.
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/2511081-nfl-draft-2012-first-round-disappointments
So where's the comparison data to show that later round picks fare any better?
RG3 was pretty damn good out of the gate .... until the injuries took away his athletic ability. I wouldn't really consider him a bust in the same sense as a .... Cryin Leaf or Jamarcus Russell.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Where's your data showing they don't fare better? My point is that people see me to think just because someone is taken early that means that they have a higher chance of being great. No that means that the scouts liked what they saw of them more.
Now I will concede that the scouts know more than I do, at least I hope they do, but the funny thing on that is how many people here and on every other teams forums talk about how much their scouts suck. Well except maybe the Pats.
At the end of the day they to are just making a guess, an educated guess but still a guess. That's why I don't feel like draft picks, while important, are the be all, end all that most think they are.
Max
Veteran
http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2015/2/20/8072877/what-the-statistics-tell-us-about-the-draft-by-round
There is some data on this. There's no doubt that there's guessing in every round, but as you might expect -- higher round draft picks tend to be more successful.
qb's:
rb's:
ol:
And on and on
I didn't make a claim about something, and I didn't try and support that claim by posting an article that doesn't do so.
All the article stated was that there wasn't a high percentage of first rounders that become pro bowlers ... and, ok.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Not sure how it didn't support what I said all I said was that higher rounds don't give a better chance of not being a bust.
I suppose it's possible we have different ideas on what counts as a bust. To me yes I expect the first rounder to be a pro ball level player. Maybe not right out of the gate but after a season or two. If he spends his whole career just being "ok" or just being decent then yeah I consider it a wasted pick depending on what position you drafted and what was on the board at the time.
No I don't expect every first rounder to be a JJ Watt but likewise they don't have to be a David Carr just to be a bit of a bust. Filling your team gaps and finding steady players is what rounds 3+ are for. Rounds one and to a lesser extent two are for finding your stars.
Unless your the Pats then you can pick whoever you want because your pick will come so late it might as well go into the next round.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Now see the interesting thing about those two articles is both only talk about one pro bowl trip. The article I posted specifically talked about how one trip and be a fluke and talked about multiple trips mainly.
Not saying the data in them is wrong, I'm sure it's not, but I'm more interested in who can show year after year they are the real goods, not the one hit wonders.
Because it's not showing any comparison data versus the later round results to say which chances were better than the others.
And Max and I have now gone on to show that comparison data that you can see for yourself.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Max's post was about starters, being a starter does not make you a success. Osweiler would now be added to that list of QBs that went on to become starters.
I have no doubt at all most first rounders become starters and even that they are starters right off the bat,except for maybe QBs, but again that does not mean they were good.
I have no doubt at all most first rounders become starters and even that they are starters right off the bat,except for maybe QBs, but again that does not mean they were good.
You can continue nitpicking the data all you'd like, but it isn't hard to understand that earlier round picks have a better, by group numbers, shot of whatever-measure-of-success than later round picks.
Talent is identifiable and will be selected earlier and this talent will by the numbers find more success.
Talent is identifiable and will be selected earlier and this talent will by the numbers find more success.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
To be fair, there's plenty ofheads that make it the same way.
HOU-TEX
Ah, Football!
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
So you say that I am nitpicking the data but then say that early round talent will be better for.....reasons.
Ok guess we'll just have to agree to disagree but for me I still want to see actual data that shows it because so far I haven't.
I do agree that logically the first two rounds should be the best but again I'm not actually seeing hard numbers to support that. I've seen data that shows many make one pro bowl but very few make multiple and that most become starters but so what being a starter does not mean you were good.
Let me be clear I'm not saying that later rounds will always be better or even mostly be better, again common sense should say they won't be. I am just saying the numbers I see don't support the line of thinking that your early draft picks will be your stars most of the time.
You say the first part as though there's any indication that the later round picks are making as many singular pro bowls themselves, much less multiple.
As for the totality of everything else, just ... ok.
TexansSeminole
Hall of Fame
@maverick512000
Your assertion is wrong. If you want to say that the draft is a crapshoot overall, I agree, but that's not what you said. It doesn't make logical sense either. If players did not have a higher chance at success the higher the round, it wouldn't make any sense for teams to be trying to trade up, or for the NFL to award compensatory pick by round based on quality of FA loss.
Anyway, I didn't mean for it to turn in to a big debate. I'll just take your statement as "even first and second rounders can bust at a fairly high rate" and agree. It doesn't detract from the overall point of your original post that I quoted.
Your assertion is wrong. If you want to say that the draft is a crapshoot overall, I agree, but that's not what you said. It doesn't make logical sense either. If players did not have a higher chance at success the higher the round, it wouldn't make any sense for teams to be trying to trade up, or for the NFL to award compensatory pick by round based on quality of FA loss.
Anyway, I didn't mean for it to turn in to a big debate. I'll just take your statement as "even first and second rounders can bust at a fairly high rate" and agree. It doesn't detract from the overall point of your original post that I quoted.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
So basically it sounds like the only thing you and I differ on, and getting back to the original point, is the value of cap space vs draft picks and my whole point on that is that draft picks are not automatically better than extra cap space. It's all in what you do with each.
If we are talking about this year alone then as of right now if FA was to end today then yes I would agree that the extra 10 million was wasted and the second round pick was better value.
Giving them the benefit of the doubt though, and assuming the space was for Romo which overall I didn't think was a horrible idea, I still hope they will use that 10 million to do something that makes the loss of the second round worthwhile.
And as far as logical sense goes I 100% agree that it makes more sense for higher rounds to be better but I still haven't seen data to actually support that. Granted I've only looked today when this all came up and even then it was a fast Google search on my break, which is why I asked for someone to show me data that says otherwise. So far all I've seen is that more go to 1 pro bowl, which even the article I posted said, and more become starters, which is not the same as being a good player.
Max
Veteran
I'm not so sure that there is a stat for 'good'. I think that's why you saw stats to show a lower % start and go to pro bowls as you descend the draft board. Seems to be the closest approximation to the quality of players in each round rather than an ambiguous term open to interpretation.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
NFL Memes@NFL_Memes Apr 4
THIS JUST IN: Tony Romo injured after tripping during walk to podium to announce retirement. Broadcasting career put on hold.
THIS JUST IN: Tony Romo injured after tripping during walk to podium to announce retirement. Broadcasting career put on hold.
Cowboyeee
Practice Squad
Howdy, Cowboy fan here. I wanted to see what the other Texans' forum made of this Romo saga.
I definitely thought that he would end up with Houston after all this. Didn't think that retirement was going to be the option he would choose. It just seems like Houston's front office was banking on Tony being released early on in free agency and going after him then. When that didn't happen, the Texans FO played hardball on any talk of trade and feigned Romo indifference. Romo didn't see much effort being exerted to get him on a SB caliber team and started to reevaluate his own desires to play.
As far as where does the team go from here? I'm thinking the team is going to be very competitive against squads with horrific defenses and hit and miss on others. Maybe the team squeaks into the playoffs but cannot advance beyond the first couple rounds (not enough firepower). Gotta invest in the offensive line and somehow find a QB. Gotta do it before the defense again needs replenishment. Kinda the opposite of Dallas. Build a great defense and a make-do offense.
I definitely thought that he would end up with Houston after all this. Didn't think that retirement was going to be the option he would choose. It just seems like Houston's front office was banking on Tony being released early on in free agency and going after him then. When that didn't happen, the Texans FO played hardball on any talk of trade and feigned Romo indifference. Romo didn't see much effort being exerted to get him on a SB caliber team and started to reevaluate his own desires to play.
As far as where does the team go from here? I'm thinking the team is going to be very competitive against squads with horrific defenses and hit and miss on others. Maybe the team squeaks into the playoffs but cannot advance beyond the first couple rounds (not enough firepower). Gotta invest in the offensive line and somehow find a QB. Gotta do it before the defense again needs replenishment. Kinda the opposite of Dallas. Build a great defense and a make-do offense.
Cowboyeee
Practice Squad
NFL Memes@NFL_Memes Apr 4
THIS JUST IN: Tony Romo injured after tripping during walk to podium to announce retirement. Broadcasting career put on hold.
And he's still light years above the two QB's currently on your roster!
Cowboyeee
Practice Squad
NFL Memes@NFL_Memes Apr 4
THIS JUST IN: Tony Romo injured after tripping during walk to podium to announce retirement. Broadcasting career put on hold.
And he's still light years above the two QB's currently on your roster!
Sigma
Veteran
wait what? thank you good sir to come here and inform us of this fact that was previously oblivious to us
Cowboyeee
Practice Squad
Just mocking the thought that because of his previous injuries, this is the new reality for Romo.
Sigma
Veteran
nope, just stating the obvious like you do
you think you are the first one to come here and brag about how **** our QB is?
like the thought never occurred to us
you should make friend with @PatPatriot
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Yeah, don't take it personally. Texans fans are just jealous because they've never even had a QB that could sniff Romo's jock.
And before anyone says Schaub, Tony Romo had 7 seasons with 13 or more games started and a QB rating above 90 (and 8 if you count 2006 when Romo won the job). Schaub had 3 such seasons. Romo was a 4 time Pro Bowler. Schaub went twice. Romo had 7 seasons with 20+ TDs. Schaub once again had 3. And everyone can laugh at Tony Romo's playoff record, but Schaub only has 1 playoff win himself.
Say Watt
Hall of Fame
Point is when it comes to the QB situation, the Texans have been absolutely f*ckin clueless. Trading away your $70M quarterback, including a 2nd round pick in the deal, and losing out on the QB everyone knew you were after is just the icing on the cake. This franchise has been smart in hiring Wade Phillips and Romeo Crennel, two of the greatest defensive minds in football history, but if it wasn't for that, this team would be no different than the Cleveland Browns.
Cowboyeee
Practice Squad
No, I was mocking the suggestion made by the previous poster. The thought of Romo being so fragile that he cannot walk off stage without suffering another catastrophic injury. As though this should make someone relieved that he didn't end up on your roster.
Cowboyeee
Practice Squad
It's all good. Maybe it would be best for an oops crap season, and trade JJ (I know, blasphemy) for another really high pick next season. Grab a much better QB next season (as the draftable QB lot is superior) and better players that are young. Worked for the Cowboys. Needed that crappy season to pick some better players and start revamping the squad. Mediocre records seem to typically end with mediocre players drafted.
I for one am not jealous. I certainly wouldn't have seen it as a bad thing to have him come here, but I wont lose sleep that he retired either seeing as even IF we had traded for him we would have likely had to go with Plan B anyway due to injury. His injury past is what it is, people are going to make jokes..... its the way things are.
When the only completions Matt Schaub made were to the other team, my favorite was "If you asked Schaub to pick his favorite number, hed probably pick six."
If you cant laugh at yourself, lighten up. If you cant laugh at others, you're just hopeless.
Cowboyeee
Practice Squad
I for one am not jealous. I certainly wouldn't have seen it as a bad thing to have him come here, but I wont lose sleep that he retired either seeing as even IF we had traded for him we would have likely had to go with Plan B anyway due to injury. His injury past is what it is, people are going to make jokes..... its the way things are.
When the only completions Matt Schaub made were to the other team, my favorite was "If you asked Schaub to pick his favorite number, hed probably pick six."
If you cant laugh at yourself, lighten up. If you cant laugh at others, you're just hopeless.
Yawn, I really do not care about the silly joke. I was more interested in discussing my original post, after which I noticed the post about the Romo joke. I quipped something obvious as the joke was equally obvious-no need to yuck it up on an eye-roller.
Who knows or cares what would have happened as far as a re-injury? That's why I quipped. He still represents/ed the Texans best chance at a SB in the next 2 years...
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Here is the "mockee." I have no argument with Romo being a better QB than anyone heretofore on the Texans roster. But Romo was destined at this point in time to have a very short half-life had he chosen to continue his career, and I have very little doubt that he did not know that before he entered into playing everyone this offseason. His history of injuries, especially the type of injuries he has sustained in the past couple of years would predict inevitable re-injury. His back sustaining any additional significant trauma is enough concern. But the operation on his collar bone was hopeful window dressing at best.....an operation which was never developed for the purpose of preventing a recurrently fractured collar bone from once again fracturing under even moderate stress.
CnD, the good doctor who posted the mocking memes, has a sterling reputation for diagnosing injuries, games missed due to injuries and the recurrence of said injuries, either recurrent or compensatory. I'll take his diagnosis over anyone else's.
I'm not a Romo fan. He was just as likely to win a game or lose a game in the 4th quarter. I wasn't a Favre fan for the same reason. I don't like gunslingers at QB. I like QB's that can win games but take care of the football.
Cowboyeee
Practice Squad
Far less of a gunslinger later in his career. The misconception that he threw tons of interceptions in the fourth quarter can be disproven with stats. When the squad ran it more, and didn't make him chuck it 50 times his interceptions went way down. I get that he had injury concerns. He would never hit the open market without them. Never thought the bigger driver in all this was his motivation to keep playing.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Yes!!!
I'd love to hear the Texans homers spin this one for me again.
So we first signed Osweiller, and everyone acted like it wasn't a risk, because we could release him in two years if it doesn't work out.
It doesn't work out, so we then trade his contract and squander a 2nd round pick just so we can free up space with pretty much no real plan to get a QB to contend with next season while a rookie develops. They wanted Romo obviously,ginning of the but had no plan B in case Jerry held onto him or Romo retiring.
So now they sit with garbage at QB and no other plans of getting one, and we lost a 2nd round pick. Lol!
And Bob Mcnair bragged about all of this strategizing!!
Come on Texans fans lets hear someone try to spin it.
On top of the above, our "wiley" Texans FO got played like amateurs by Romo and jj. An offer for a #1 national broadcast analyst position doesn't manifest over just a couple of weeks. Having spoken to a broadcast personality in my practice, it was interesting to find out that such a move does not occur spontaneously and would have involved months of interviews and negotiation before consummation................certainly by the beginning of the offseason and very possibly during the 2016 season.
Bulls on Parade
2017 Astros: Earn It!
I'm not mad about it. There was one piece missing to this team. You thought you had a chance to go get it, and it didn't work out.
How many teams are going to trade a 1 next year for a bust this year? It happens every year.
How many teams are going to trade a 1 next year for a bust this year? It happens every year.
