Kubiak: Keep or Fire?

[houstonspartan]

i hear that, but you think at some point McNair is going to get sick and tired of having the losing horse on most Sundays. How many heartbreaking losses does he have to force the Bushes to sit through on Sundays before he starts trying to compete for a championship and not just 8-8.

Exactly. I said it before, I was humiliated after the Monday night game, so you can imagine how McNair felt, when he had Bum Phillips, a ton of other football people and political folks in attendance.

Then, the same thing happened during the Indy game, when the Bushes where in his suite. It's embarrassing to the fans. I can only imagine what he's going through.

 

[Runner]

Wow. I thought the "Fire Him" contigent would win this by a landslide..

Speaking for myself, I don't base my expectations for next year on hopes, dreams, and Internet polls. I look at what has happened and extrapolate reasonable expectations based on that history. This season, to me, was the season Kubiak had to show his growth. He didn't, in my opinion, so it's time to move on.

The human brain is good at pattern recognition; it's also good at letting emotion and other factors cloud judgement.

 

[houstonspartan]

Speaking for myself, I don't base my expectations for next year on hopes, dreams, and Internet polls. I look at what has happened and extrapolate reasonable expectations based on that history. This season, to me, was the season Kubiak had to show his growth. He didn't, in my opinion, so it's time to move on.

The human brain is good at pattern recognition; it's also good at letting emotion and other factors cloud judgement.

Runner, you are reading my mind. I made a reasonable prediction about next year, and someone told me on another board that it was ridiculus to predict next year because that would be thinking in a vaccuum. WTF?

I started with the division record, which is 6 losses right off the bat. But, I gave them a break, and decided they could pull one win off. Ok, so five losses.

In addition, we have the freaking NFC EAST coming in, and that's at LEAST two losses. That puts us at seven losses.

Then, we always bungle another random game or two. So that puts us at AT LEAST 8 losses next year.

Yes, I'm guessing, but I think it's a fair baseline using past performance. Someone told me that i was nuts. It wasn't that they disagreed with my prediction. They basically told me that it was impossible to even speculate about the team next year because it hasn't happened yet.

I **** you not. That's what they said. Next year's schedule is going to be extremely hard, yet a lot of fans aren't thinking about that. They think Dallas, Philly, NY Giants and Washigton will be walks in the park.

A good friend and I had this conversation. He thought I was being too harsh. Regarding the division record, he thought we'd split the division and end up with three wins and three losses. I then asked him about the NFC East. He actually thought we'd lose at least three of those games.

I said, "You realize that even with your scenario, we're looking at at least six losses, right? And, there will be one or two other losses in there, and that puts us at seven, possibly 8 losses, using your generous scenario."

He looked at me and was like, "Damn. You're right."

No matter how we twist the numbers, based on past performance, next year we're looking at a range between 7-9, 8-8 and 9-7.

 

[barrett]

What about those teams (NFC East) performance next year has you convinced that we can't beat them?

What about those teams (AFC South) performance next year has you convinced that we can't beat them?

Do you get where I'm going?

 

[houstonspartan]

What about those teams (NFC East) performance next year has you convinced that we can't beat them?

What about those teams (AFC South) performance next year has you convinced that we can't beat them?

Do you get where I'm going?

I see your point. And I understand what you mean.

As I said, I admitted that it was a wild random guess. But, based on past performance of THIS team, I think it's a safe bet. I'm looking at OUR external output towards those other teams. We sometimes make even bad teams look good. Often, that is not about them. It's about us.

See my point?

 

[Goldensilence]

What about those teams (NFC East) performance next year has you convinced that we can't beat them?

3 out of the four are likely to finish over .500 and we don't have a big history of beating plus .500 teams?

What about those teams (AFC South) performance next year has you convinced that we can't beat them?

Have you recently looked at our division record ?

Do you get where I'm going?

Not really?

 

[mussop]

I think a case can be made that the players put the team in a position to win, and the coach didn't answer the bell.

It's Kubiak who couldn't come up with a 2nd half scoring play in Week 3 versus the Jags and didn't call Andre Johnson's number once in the 2nd half.

It's Kubiak who allowed the team to come out flat in Week 5 and called that dangerous out pattern that went pick 6.

It's Kubiak who told Schaub to run the 2nd Quarter clock to the 2 minute warning at Indy, which allowed the Colts to take a 2nd look at Moats fumble and challenge.

It's Kubiak that came out of the bye week and decided that a lethargic Chris Brown would be made a focal point of the offense.

It's Kubiak that again ignores Andre Johnson for the likes of Vonta Leach, Chris Brown, and James Casey in the 2nd half of the Week 12 Colts game, and allows Indy to come back from a 17 point deficit.

It's Kubiak that called the infamous "Stagger Gary" Chris Brown halfback pass in JAX.

Were mistakes made by Texans players this season? Plenty. Note that these are the same players that Kubiak & staff coached to avoid these same mistakes from OTAs, through training camp, and throughout the season. Obviously, their message isn't getting through. Maybe when these players see the head coach make mistake after mistake, they feel less accountable?

Regardless, to place all of the blame on the players is a total crock. And while I feel it is completely justified and righteous for Kubiak to get the axe, I certainly do not believe this team should come back intact. I've seen enough of Ok0ye to proclaim him a bust. He's this organization's David Carr. Only starting because of his draft status and the team's reluctance to bring in competition at his position. I think we've seen enough of Chris Myers to know that he is not a legit NFL starter. And Dunta Robinson should have his wish granted and get a new address. Good luck with that next contract.

Yes, the Texans need to gain experience, bring in more talent, and develop leadership on the field. What they don't need is to waste another year trying to develop a proven coordinator like Gary Kubiak into a legitimate NFL head coach. It's not working.

Must spread rep!!!!!!!!

 

[HJam72]

Regarding some of these last posts, I'm just gonna call it like I see it. When we lose, it is almost inevitably because we lose at the LOS on one or both sides of the line. I believe that is because we are lacking in talent in the center of our O-Line and lacking in HEART on the whole D-Line overall. Some of that problem is on KUBIAK. I'm talking about a couple of 1st round D-Linemen, among others. We have serious talent on this team that sometimes plays just good enough to remain a starter, which only means playing as well as their backups would. THAT'S BULLCRAP, and it's exactly what's happening. Replace the center and get these lazy D-linemen active one way or another. If I was McNair, I'd do that part myself, actually. There's absolutely no excuse for admitting that you need to give more to your coach, or be more consistent, or whatever is the pansy A&$ most recent way of saying, "I just want my multi-million dollar pay without actually working for it..."

 

[Grams]

Yeah, hopefully we'll get an experienced coach, like Jimmy Johnson, Wade Phillips, Dave Wanstedt, Mike Ditka, Steve Mariuchi, Mike Martz, or something like that.

Yuck, you made my skin crawl with that list.

 

[Grams]

I have been following this post for what seems like forever now. Some pretty good points have been made on both sides.

I just have a question.

What IF the Texans win the rest of their games and by some miraculous gift of the football gods we make the playoffs and by another miraculous gift we win a playoff game, still fire Kubiak?

I know this is a very big IF, but I don't think we have been mathamatically elimated from the playoffs yet and weirder things have happened.

I am just courious what others think IF that should happen.

 

[Texan_Bill]

We lose Sunday and I bet a new poll would look quite a bit different.

On a completely unrelated note:
I really wish folks would STOP calling each other out and defining what a fan is or is not. AS A FAN: You have the right to be an eternal optimist and support anything/everything the franchise does, and by the same token, you have the right to criticize and desire change. Being one or the other - or even both at different times - does NOT make any one inherently a "better fan" than anyone else. People perpetuating that idea seem to be making up for other severe deficiencies in their lives.

Ain't that the truth.

 

[Thorn]

I have been following this post for what seems like forever now. Some pretty good points have been made on both sides.

I just have a question.

What IF the Texans win the rest of their games and by some miraculous gift of the football gods we make the playoffs and by another miraculous gift we win a playoff game, still fire Kubiak?

I know this is a very big IF, but I don't think we have been mathamatically elimated from the playoffs yet and weirder things have happened.

I am just courious what others think IF that should happen.

If that were to happen Kubiak would be back next year. Period.

I, for one, would quit my fence hanging, and welcome him back with open arms. I'm already leaning to the side of voting to bring him back next year. Not because I really want him to be back, but I don't see a good enough head coach in the works to convice me a change would be in the Texans best interests. I'd much rather have Kubiak back for another year than take a chance on an another unproven coach.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

I have been following this post for what seems like forever now. Some pretty good points have been made on both sides.

I just have a question.

What IF the Texans win the rest of their games and by some miraculous gift of the football gods we make the playoffs and by another miraculous gift we win a playoff game, still fire Kubiak?

I know this is a very big IF, but I don't think we have been mathamatically elimated from the playoffs yet and weirder things have happened.

I am just courious what others think IF that should happen.

The goal from my side has been making the playoffs this year. I am of the ilk that Kubiak gets a one year pass should we make a miraculous run. Hopefully McNair is thinking the same thing and has laid out that roadmap to Kubiak prior to the season.

However, this is the franchise that gave David Carr an extension after a 2-14 campaign.

 

[Joe Texan]

So when you see soap, the first thing that pops in your head is "prison rape"? Hmm.....that says more about you than anybody else here, or are you rehashing past experiences here or what?

Anyways now that we've waded through your sick fantasies, why on earth would it take another coach 3 years to get this team where everybody wants them to go? (which lets be honest here, the bar isn't set very high. We're asking for a winning season, a playoff appearance, and god forbid...maybe even some good divisional wins). Even you yourself said you would call for Kubiak's head if he doesn't get us over the hump next year, so maybe other people are just ahead of the curve here.... oh yeah, that's right....we can't be, because we aren't "true fans" and we don't cheer loud enough. I mean that's the reason why this team can't win more than 8 games right, the home crowd leaves too early. Keep shaking those pom poms, it's bound to make Kubiak smarter one day. Every time a cowbell rings, a wanna-be head coach gets his wings.

To answer your question the only thoughts that popped in my head were the stories you told about what you like to do with pink soap in the shower and that would turn Boy George straight.

Now talk about sick, anyway if the new coach comes in,I am so sure he says bye to Kubiak and hello to all the others in place, if not he must replace them and that will take months, but wait we got a draft to do and then training camp. Oh well we have great fans that want the coach gone so we will be ok. They don't like pom poms or chearleaders but they do have pink soap so watch out we will be the pride of the lockerroom.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

Yuck, you made my skin crawl with that list.

Jimmy Johnson makes your skin crawl as your prospective head coach? People that actually want to win would be doing cartwheels over that selection. We should be so lucky to have him as our coach.

Wade Phillips has taken 3 different teams to the playoffs and is a fine coach and much better than Kubiak. its a fact. Wade wins while Kubiak loses but Wade coaches for those 'evil Cowboys' so he must suck. he will be fired if they don't win a playoff game, but its not his fault. Romo just sucks and is a chokejob. The white Warren Moon. never met a big game he couldn't choke in.

Steve Mariucci is a good coach but probably not a good fit. I don't know if he is wired to be a head coach but he has proven that he is a better head coach than Kubiak. It's not up for debate. it's a fact. His teams have made the playoffs and been winners.

Mike Ditka is a God. Please do not even compare Kubiak to Ditka. Ditka failed in New Orleans and probably screwed up with the whole Ricky Williams trade, but his record as a coach in Chicago and a player speak for itself. Kubiak isn't even worthy to lick Ditka's jockstrap. Ditka wins and Kubiak loses.

Mike Martz has shown that he is a great coordinator but had some trouble as a head coach. Sounds pretty familiar. Kubiak is Mike Martz - Part 2 except Mike got them to a Super Bowl. Why you think Kubiak is better than Mike Martz is beyond me. Martz is kinda an ahole but at least he won big games and made the playoffs. Martz is better than Kubiak but probably not a good fit at this point in time. We need a more complete head coach.

Dave Wannstedt? I don't even know why he was brought up but he is the one guy who Kubiak might be better than but remember Dave got the Dolphins to the playoffs and i believe they even won a game. I will call that one a draw just so i can be nice and do my good deed for the day.

So the coaches that make you want to vomit have all proven to be more successful and more accomplished than Kubiak has been. Yet the mere mention of their names make you vomit. that is kinda lame and shows that you lack objectivity and are very biased against anyone besides Gary.

By acting like Gary is better head coach material than those guys just shows you lack the basic knowledge of football and what success actually is. I know your a grandma and I totally respect that you love football and i know you are a good and loyal fan, but just because someone is the coach of your team doesn't make them good. you have to be honest and objective and not be so biased. gary has proven to be a loser. that is not up for argument or debate. It has been proven over a 4 year span. No argument. He has been a loser and has shown that he lacks the ability to adjust in games, make quality in game decisions, and chokes any time he gets to the big game.

These are all facts and aren't up for debate. If you think another year or two is going to magically change all that, that is your opinion, but i just don't see anything that would give you reason to believe that it will change. he has done nothing to show that it will change. in fact, his coaching was even worse this year. So is it going to change just because you say so? or is it going to change because he is a local Houston product? or is it going to change because he is so niiiiice? if you think that, you are just fooling yourself.

I am not saying those names are great fits as Houston head coach material, but all of those guys have been more successful than Gary has, so why is it that they make you vomit? I know why. because they don't coach for your team and because they arent named Gary Kubiak and are a 'local hero'. Outside of Wannstedt (who shouldn't even be on the same list as a Ditka or JJ) there are absolutely no football reasons that would give Kubiak the nod over those guys other than age (JJ and Ditka) and attitude/personality (Martz) Its just personal bias and homerism. Thank god you don't run our team.

This reminds me a lot of the end of the Carr era. People were still acting like he was going to turn the corner even though all evidence pointed to the exact opposite. Those of us that thought he sucked knew we needed to get rid of him to fix the offense but there were some who were stubborn and homered so much that they actually thought Carr was going to be good. That is exactly what is happening now.

And lets not be surprised that the same people who wanted more time for Carr are the same people that want more time for Kubiak. The same. And the same people that knew Carr sucked long before the Texans finally admitted failure are the same people that know Kubiak is a loser and needs to be fired. So excuse me if we don't put a lot of merit into the opinions of some homers who cheer for the jersey irregardless of how bad the player/coach inside it is performing.

It is following the same course. Vinny, KT, myself, and a few others know that Kubiak sucks, just like we knew that Carr sucked...way before the curve. Is it because we are so damn smart? maybe partly, but mostly its because we are actually honest and not letting homering and team loyalty cloud our judgment. We are just more objective and honest with our assessment. We don't let the color of the uniform cloud our thinking. So when you disagree with us, don't be crying to mama when you are proven wrong and we throw another year or two down the drain trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

I knew Carr sucked by the middle of 2003 and was called every name in the book for pointing out what was painfully obvious to any objective fan...and even a few of the Texan players themselves. As early as Year 2, I knew that some of the players knew that Carr sucked but couldn't say anything or complain about it. It split our locker room. I told people about that (couldn't disclose my source at the time) and was told I was full of crap.

Many of the defensive players came to a steakhouse that I frequented, and after a few cigars, a few bottle of wines, and a nice Porterhouse these guys would get loose lips. Jamie Sharper told he himself that Carr wasn't working hard, didn't hang out with the rest of the guys, and would be one of the last to show up and the first to leave. He also complained about his dad attending practices and that Carr didn't show any leadership or accountability after losses to the media. He told me this himself. I couldn't say anything specific at the time because I would have gotten my friend (the restaurant owner) and possibly Jamie in trouble.

Gary Walker also spoke up about it another time at the steakhouse's bar and mentioned how Capers/Casserley coddled Carr and would always come to his defense. Most of the time we talked about video games or the NFL but occassionally we would talk NFL/Texans. On this board, I was always asked to provide proof of my inside knowledge or quote a source, but I couldn't at the time. Now I feel I can because A.) i dont live in Houston and B.) my friend sold his restaurant and C.) Sharper and Walker are both gone as is Carr.

I am not against bringing Kubiak back, but only if we can't attract a truly proven head coaching candidate that will turn things around and bring some passion and fire to this team. Cowher, Gruden, Schottenheimer, and Holmgren all have those traits and we owe it to ourselves and our fanbase to make a phone call and see if they are interested.

i don't want another wasted year and i sure as hell ain't going to pay big $$ for it year after year like I have since 2002.

for those of you who waded through all this text, Merry Christmas and I am sorry for the rant and to those of you who passed, you were probably smart. here it is in Cliff Notes form.

Kubiak is a crappy coach. We need a proven coach. Same people homering for Kubiak are homering for Carr. They didn't know what they were talking about then and still don't know what they are talking about. I am sick of paying big $$ for this garbage and all this losing. Sorry about the length of the post. Merry Christmas.

 

[Joe Texan]

Not sure if that question was for me, but personally - it HAS to be playoffs next year. I think making it will get a possible extension - but winning at least one will quell all nay sayers much more. I'm thinking the Texans will have to take it at least one deeper into the playoffs since this year was the "sneak into to the playoffs"

If playoffs are missed, then it'd better be at least a 10-6 season to have that "possible extension" mentioned earlier. I don't think 9-7 and a winning season will cut it next year.

Great post and great answer, I agree that the pressure is on next year and we are not looking for anything but a 10 and 6 or better. If we go 9 and 7 this year then we have a chance to sneak in. If we do not go 9 and 7 the I am mad but I am not mad enough to fire Kubiak. I have the time to wait and see if this ship is sailing or sinking. My bet it is sailing but dropped a sail or two that must be mended to continue.

 

[Joe Texan]

It is quite an honor to see that they have Cloned me, and My Clone loves Beer, That says a lot more than "My Clone Loves Pink Soap" which is what I see spewing suds all over this thread.

It has not come to the soapdroppers attention that most fans a slight problem where they are concerned so it might be that more people have enough football knowledge to see that a team is on the ledge and soap is slippery while out on the ledge. Get ready Pink soapers lather up real good and JUMP

 

[WWJD]

It is quite an honor to see that they have Cloned me, and My Clone loves Beer, That says a lot more than "My Clone Loves Pink Soap" which is what I see spewing suds all over this thread.

It has not come to the soapdroppers attention that most fans a slight problem where they are concerned so it might be that more people have enough football knowledge to see that a team is on the ledge and soap is slippery while out on the ledge. Get ready Pink soapers lather up real good and JUMP[/QUOTE


Huh?

 

[houstonspartan]

Jimmy Johnson makes your skin crawl as your prospective head coach? People that actually want to win would be doing cartwheels over that selection. We should be so lucky to have him as our coach.

Wade Phillips has taken 3 different teams to the playoffs and is a fine coach and much better than Kubiak. its a fact. Wade wins while Kubiak loses but Wade coaches for those 'evil Cowboys' so he must suck. he will be fired if they don't win a playoff game, but its not his fault. Romo just sucks and is a chokejob. The white Warren Moon. never met a big game he couldn't choke in.

Steve Mariucci is a good coach but probably not a good fit. I don't know if he is wired to be a head coach but he has proven that he is a better head coach than Kubiak. It's not up for debate. it's a fact. His teams have made the playoffs and been winners.

Mike Ditka is a God. Please do not even compare Kubiak to Ditka. Ditka failed in New Orleans and probably screwed up with the whole Ricky Williams trade, but his record as a coach in Chicago and a player speak for itself. Kubiak isn't even worthy to lick Ditka's jockstrap. Ditka wins and Kubiak loses.

Mike Martz has shown that he is a great coordinator but had some trouble as a head coach. Sounds pretty familiar. Kubiak is Mike Martz - Part 2 except Mike got them to a Super Bowl. Why you think Kubiak is better than Mike Martz is beyond me. Martz is kinda an ahole but at least he won big games and made the playoffs. Martz is better than Kubiak but probably not a good fit at this point in time. We need a more complete head coach.

Dave Wannstedt? I don't even know why he was brought up but he is the one guy who Kubiak might be better than but remember Dave got the Dolphins to the playoffs and i believe they even won a game. I will call that one a draw just so i can be nice and do my good deed for the day.

So the coaches that make you want to vomit have all proven to be more successful and more accomplished than Kubiak has been. Yet the mere mention of their names make you vomit. that is kinda lame and shows that you lack objectivity and are very biased against anyone besides Gary.

By acting like Gary is better head coach material than those guys just shows you lack the basic knowledge of football and what success actually is. I know your a grandma and I totally respect that you love football and i know you are a good and loyal fan, but just because someone is the coach of your team doesn't make them good. you have to be honest and objective and not be so biased. gary has proven to be a loser. that is not up for argument or debate. It has been proven over a 4 year span. No argument. He has been a loser and has shown that he lacks the ability to adjust in games, make quality in game decisions, and chokes any time he gets to the big game.

These are all facts and aren't up for debate. If you think another year or two is going to magically change all that, that is your opinion, but i just don't see anything that would give you reason to believe that it will change. he has done nothing to show that it will change. in fact, his coaching was even worse this year. So is it going to change just because you say so? or is it going to change because he is a local Houston product? or is it going to change because he is so niiiiice? if you think that, you are just fooling yourself.

I am not saying those names are great fits as Houston head coach material, but all of those guys have been more successful than Gary has, so why is it that they make you vomit? I know why. because they don't coach for your team and because they arent named Gary Kubiak and are a 'local hero'. Outside of Wannstedt (who shouldn't even be on the same list as a Ditka or JJ) there are absolutely no football reasons that would give Kubiak the nod over those guys other than age (JJ and Ditka) and attitude/personality (Martz) Its just personal bias and homerism. Thank god you don't run our team.

This reminds me a lot of the end of the Carr era. People were still acting like he was going to turn the corner even though all evidence pointed to the exact opposite. Those of us that thought he sucked knew we needed to get rid of him to fix the offense but there were some who were stubborn and homered so much that they actually thought Carr was going to be good. That is exactly what is happening now.

And lets not be surprised that the same people who wanted more time for Carr are the same people that want more time for Kubiak. The same. And the same people that knew Carr sucked long before the Texans finally admitted failure are the same people that know Kubiak is a loser and needs to be fired. So excuse me if we don't put a lot of merit into the opinions of some homers who cheer for the jersey irregardless of how bad the player/coach inside it is performing.

It is following the same course. Vinny, KT, myself, and a few others know that Kubiak sucks, just like we knew that Carr sucked...way before the curve. Is it because we are so damn smart? maybe partly, but mostly its because we are actually honest and not letting homering and team loyalty cloud our judgment. We are just more objective and honest with our assessment. We don't let the color of the uniform cloud our thinking. So when you disagree with us, don't be crying to mama when you are proven wrong and we throw another year or two down the drain trying to fit a square peg into a round hole.

I knew Carr sucked by the middle of 2003 and was called every name in the book for pointing out what was painfully obvious to any objective fan...and even a few of the Texan players themselves. As early as Year 2, I knew that some of the players knew that Carr sucked but couldn't say anything or complain about it. It split our locker room. I told people about that (couldn't disclose my source at the time) and was told I was full of crap.

Many of the defensive players came to a steakhouse that I frequented, and after a few cigars, a few bottle of wines, and a nice Porterhouse these guys would get loose lips. Jamie Sharper told he himself that Carr wasn't working hard, didn't hang out with the rest of the guys, and would be one of the last to show up and the first to leave. He also complained about his dad attending practices and that Carr didn't show any leadership or accountability after losses to the media. He told me this himself. I couldn't say anything specific at the time because I would have gotten my friend (the restaurant owner) and possibly Jamie in trouble.

Gary Walker also spoke up about it another time at the steakhouse's bar and mentioned how Capers/Casserley coddled Carr and would always come to his defense. Most of the time we talked about video games or the NFL but occassionally we would talk NFL/Texans. On this board, I was always asked to provide proof of my inside knowledge or quote a source, but I couldn't at the time. Now I feel I can because A.) i dont live in Houston and B.) my friend sold his restaurant and C.) Sharper and Walker are both gone as is Carr.

I am not against bringing Kubiak back, but only if we can't attract a truly proven head coaching candidate that will turn things around and bring some passion and fire to this team. Cowher, Gruden, Schottenheimer, and Holmgren all have those traits and we owe it to ourselves and our fanbase to make a phone call and see if they are interested.

i don't want another wasted year and i sure as hell ain't going to pay big $$ for it year after year like I have since 2002.

for those of you who waded through all this text, Merry Christmas and I am sorry for the rant and to those of you who passed, you were probably smart. here it is in Cliff Notes form.

Kubiak is a crappy coach. We need a proven coach. Same people homering for Kubiak are homering for Carr. They didn't know what they were talking about then and still don't know what they are talking about. I am sick of paying big $$ for this garbage and all this losing. Sorry about the length of the post. Merry Christmas.

Very well said. Agree with all of it.

Also, I would sever my right arm for Jimmy Johnson. The man is a freaking football genius.

I think there's a lot of "hometown boy does good" things going on. Gary is getting a huge pass because he is from here.

 

[Grams]

Jimmy Johnson makes your skin crawl as your prospective head coach? People that actually want to win would be doing cartwheels over that selection. We should be so lucky to have him as our coach.

Wade Phillips has taken 3 different teams to the playoffs and is a fine coach and much better than Kubiak. its a fact. Wade wins while Kubiak loses but Wade coaches for those 'evil Cowboys' so he must suck. he will be fired if they don't win a playoff game, but its not his fault. Romo just sucks and is a chokejob. The white Warren Moon. never met a big game he couldn't choke in.

Steve Mariucci is a good coach but probably not a good fit. I don't know if he is wired to be a head coach but he has proven that he is a better head coach than Kubiak. It's not up for debate. it's a fact. His teams have made the playoffs and been winners.

Mike Ditka is a God. Please do not even compare Kubiak to Ditka. Ditka failed in New Orleans and probably screwed up with the whole Ricky Williams trade, but his record as a coach in Chicago and a player speak for itself. Kubiak isn't even worthy to lick Ditka's jockstrap. Ditka wins and Kubiak loses.

Mike Martz has shown that he is a great coordinator but had some trouble as a head coach. Sounds pretty familiar. Kubiak is Mike Martz - Part 2 except Mike got them to a Super Bowl. Why you think Kubiak is better than Mike Martz is beyond me. Martz is kinda an ahole but at least he won big games and made the playoffs. Martz is better than Kubiak but probably not a good fit at this point in time. We need a more complete head coach.

Dave Wannstedt? I don't even know why he was brought up but he is the one guy who Kubiak might be better than but remember Dave got the Dolphins to the playoffs and i believe they even won a game. I will call that one a draw just so i can be nice and do my good deed for the day.

So the coaches that make you want to vomit have all proven to be more successful and more accomplished than Kubiak has been. Yet the mere mention of their names make you vomit. that is kinda lame and shows that you lack objectivity and are very biased against anyone besides Gary.

Ditka and Johnson have not coached in 10 years. They are probably not ever going to coach again.

Wannestedt bailed out on his team after going 1-8 in 2004. He just need to stay wherever he is hinding.

Wade Philips - maybe as a DC but not a head coach. I am a little concerned if the reports are true that the OC is making more than him as to why did he stay on in Dallas?

Martz in my opinion is done as a HC and probably an OC. Wasn't that good in Detroit, but not all his fault there. Did not do much in SF and was not there long. Read that he wants to coach in Buffalo, probably because no one else wants to. I just don't like him - not sure why.

Mariucci, while an ok coach - did get the 49ers in the playoffs, but did not win. Did he not take over from Siefert? Maybe he got into the playoffs because of the team Siefert left him.

I don't think I have said that we need to keep Kubiak. I also do not support the pink soap. I do not want to change the coach just to change the coach. Now if they were to get someone like Cowher, Marty or Holmgrin . . .

But nothing I say or do has any bearing on what the Texans do. I have absolutely no control over what the decide. I am a fan and will continue to be a fan weither it be Kubiak or someone else as the HC next year.

 

[Wolf6151]

This same poll should be taken again at the end of the season after 2 straight losses to Miami and New England. We'll most likely get totally different results.

 

[WWJD]

Ditka and Johnson have not coached in 10 years. They are probably not ever going to coach again.

Wannestedt bailed out on his team after going 1-8 in 2004. He just need to stay wherever he is hinding.

Wade Philips - maybe as a DC but not a head coach. I am a little concerned if the reports are true that the OC is making more than him as to why did he stay on in Dallas?

Martz in my opinion is done as a HC and probably an OC. Wasn't that good in Detroit, but not all his fault there. Did not do much in SF and was not there long. Read that he wants to coach in Buffalo, probably because no one else wants to. I just don't like him - not sure why.

Mariucci, while an ok coach - did get the 49ers in the playoffs, but did not win. Did he not take over from Siefert? Maybe he got into the playoffs because of the team Siefert left him.

I don't think I have said that we need to keep Kubiak. I also do not support the pink soap. I do not want to change the coach just to change the coach. Now if they were to get someone like Cowher, Marty or Holmgrin . . .

But nothing I say or do has any bearing on what the Texans do. I have absolutely no control over what the decide. I am a fan and will continue to be a fan weither it be Kubiak or someone else as the HC next year.

Jason Garrett and Wade Phillips make approximately the same amount...3 million a year. Garrett is the highest paid assistant coach in the league. Wade was retained last year on a one year extension. He's definitely a better DC than head coach.

 

[HoustonFrog]

Ditka and Johnson have not coached in 10 years. They are probably not ever going to coach again.

Wannestedt bailed out on his team after going 1-8 in 2004. He just need to stay wherever he is hinding.

Wade Philips - maybe as a DC but not a head coach. I am a little concerned if the reports are true that the OC is making more than him as to why did he stay on in Dallas?

Martz in my opinion is done as a HC and probably an OC. Wasn't that good in Detroit, but not all his fault there. Did not do much in SF and was not there long. Read that he wants to coach in Buffalo, probably because no one else wants to. I just don't like him - not sure why.

Mariucci, while an ok coach - did get the 49ers in the playoffs, but did not win. Did he not take over from Siefert? Maybe he got into the playoffs because of the team Siefert left him.

I don't think I have said that we need to keep Kubiak. I also do not support the pink soap. I do not want to change the coach just to change the coach. Now if they were to get someone like Cowher, Marty or Holmgrin . . .

But nothing I say or do has any bearing on what the Texans do. I have absolutely no control over what the decide. I am a fan and will continue to be a fan weither it be Kubiak or someone else as the HC next year.

He is doing real well as the HC at the University of Pittsburgh. Been there some years

 

[Goldensilence]

He is doing real well as the HC at the University of Pittsburgh. Been there some years

Yeah lost the Big East title on a missed extra point to Cinci. It was a heck of a game to watch, probably one of the best I saw all year.

 

[Texecutioner]

Wade Philips - maybe as a DC but not a head coach. I am a little concerned if the reports are true that the OC is making more than him as to why did he stay on in Dallas?

Wade Phillips has at least coached his team to a 13-3 season where they got a first round bye for having the best record in the NFC. That year and last year may not seem like much to you, but what does that say about a guy who goes 8-8 for 3 straight years?

Martz in my opinion is done as a HC and probably an OC. Wasn't that good in Detroit, but not all his fault there. Did not do much in SF and was not there long. Read that he wants to coach in Buffalo, probably because no one else wants to. I just don't like him - not sure why.

Martz took his team to the SB against the Pats and lost by a last second FG by Vinatteri.

Mariucci, while an ok coach - did get the 49ers in the playoffs, but did not win. Did he not take over from Siefert? Maybe he got into the playoffs because of the team Siefert left him.

Marriucci coached a 49ers team that had one of the best come back victories in the history of the NFL in the playoffs against the Giants. Marriucci went to the playoffs a few times with the 49ers actually. I want to say that he's won at least two playoff games. That game against the Giants was one of the best football games I've ever seen.

 

[noxiousdog]

He is doing real well as the HC at the University of Pittsburgh. Been there some years

This is what I don't understand. For all the criticism of Kubiak, how can you say Wannstadt has been doing real well?

In 2003 and 2004, Pittsburgh was 5-2 and 4-2 in conference.

Wannstedt took over in 2005 and managed to backslide to 4-3, 2-5, and 3-4. Both last year and this year he managed 5-2, neither time winning the conference.

Keeping in mind that the teams he's beating include a Syracuse team that's won 4 conference games in 5 years. Louisville who hasn't had a winning record (including out of conference!) since Patrino left in '06, Uconn who's only had a winning record 1 year in Wannstedt's tenure, and South Florida who has won 4 games 3 times and 3 the rest.

 

[HoustonFrog]

This is what I don't understand. For all the criticism of Kubiak, how can you say Wannstadt has been doing real well?

In 2003 and 2004, Pittsburgh was 5-2 and 4-2 in conference.

Wannstedt took over in 2005 and managed to backslide to 4-3, 2-5, and 3-4. Both last year and this year he managed 5-2, neither time winning the conference.

Keeping in mind that the teams he's beating include a Syracuse team that's won 4 conference games in 5 years. Louisville who hasn't had a winning record (including out of conference!) since Patrino left in '06, Uconn who's only had a winning record 1 year in Wannstedt's tenure, and South Florida who has won 4 games 3 times and 3 the rest.

As of the last couple of years he is doing real well. There is nothing tricky about it. He just played a win all game for the Big East Championship. I didn't say he was great there. He started badly, but it is college ball, not the pros. But 5-2 is a nice winning record in conference and he was playing for something. If you are comparing him to Kubiak..who has never had a winning conference record...1 win this year after 4 YEARS...and has never had a winning record overall or played for anything, then it was a fail. Big Difference. You are talking two completely different things...college to pro...and different set ups. Not really sure what your point is except to try and dissect saying someone is doing well at Pitt now.

For comments way back asking why people keep responding in here.....it's this?Taking a random comment that had nothing to do with the subject and turning it into something. Whatever.

 

[noxiousdog]

As of the last couple of years he is doing real well. There is nothing tricky about it. He just played a win all game for the Big East Championship. I didn't see he was great there. He started badly, but it is college ball, not the pros. But 5-2 is a nice winning record in conference and he was playing for something. If you are comparing him to Kubiak..who has never had a winning conference record...1 win this year after 4 YEARS...and has never had a winning record overall or played for anything, then it was a fail. Big Difference. You are talking two completely different things...college to pro...and different set ups. Not really sure what your point is except to try and dissect saying someone is doing well at Pitt now.

Only getting to 5-2 in a BCS conference with no powerhouses in 5 years is terrible. Pittsburgh should absolutely own the Big East now that Miami is gone.

For comments way back asking why people keep responding in here.....it's this?Taking a random comment that had nothing to do with the subject and turning it into something. Whatever.

Don't be so defensive. I was just confused why you think Wannstedt was doing well and Kubiak is terrible.

 

[HoustonFrog]

Only getting to 5-2 in a BCS conference with no powerhouses in 5 years is terrible. Pittsburgh should absolutely own the Big East now that Miami is gone.



Don't be so defensive. I was just confused why you think Wannstedt was doing well and Kubiak is terrible.

Maybe so, but he is doing well compared to his last pro coaching days. To clear up any misconception, I'm not advocating DW coaching here or in the NFL...just he seems to do a little better in college, especially the last 2 years. He was a much better coordinator....like I think Kubes is. Actually he and many others make a good case for good guys, great coordinators, not always making it. He and Turner were the backbone to Jimmy's stafff in Dallas. You may be right on 5-2 but he is winning and they competed this year.

Not defensive, I just want to point out why I was responding so as not to get ripped for actually debating a question.

 

[Texan_Bill]

He is doing real well as the HC at the University of Pittsburgh. Been there some years

His first 3 years at Pitt was suck!! 16-19. This season and last season were much better but he still can't win the Big East.

 

[HoustonFrog]

His first 3 years at Pitt was suck!! 16-19. This season and last season were much better but he still can't win the Big East.

Explained above

 

[noxiousdog]

Maybe so, but he is doing well compared to his pro coaching days. To clear up any misconception, I'm not advocating DW coaching here or in the NFL...just he seems to do a little better in college, especially the last 2 years. He was a much better coordinator....like I think Kubes is. Actually he and many others make a good case for good guys, great coordinators, not always making it. You may be right on 5-2 but he it is winning and they competed this year.

Not defensive, I just want to point out why I was responding so as not to get ripped for actually debating a question.

No worries. I've noticed things are a lot more heated here lately. I just think Pittsburgh's record and everything on the line game is a scheduling trick that they got to play that game the last game of the season. Had it been earlier in the year he'd have just been playing out the string.

Likewise if Jacksonville was in week 17 instead of week 13, we'd have had a decent shot of that being for a playoff spot. Nah.. that would mean we'd have had to beat both NE and MIA. No chance

 

[Texan_Bill]

Explained above

I know. I read it right after I posted a response to your quote.

I'm slow today for some reason.

 

[Grams]

Likewise if Jacksonville was in week 17 instead of week 13, we'd have had a decent shot of that being for a playoff spot. Nah.. that would mean we'd have had to beat both NE and MIA. No chance

Never say never. Maybe not probable, but there is always a possibility.

 

[HoustonFrog]

I know. I read it right after I posted a response to your quote.

I'm slow today for some reason.

Friday and the week before a short week. I'm doing nothing and slow myself. Ready to

 

[Texan_Bill]

Friday and the week before a short week. I'm doing nothing and slow myself. Ready to

Hell yeah!!!

 

[ObsiWan]

We lose Sunday and I bet a new poll would look quite a bit different.

On a completely unrelated note:
I really wish folks would STOP calling each other out and defining what a fan is or is not. AS A FAN: You have the right to be an eternal optimist and support anything/everything the franchise does, and by the same token, you have the right to criticize and desire change. Being one or the other - or even both at different times - does NOT make any one inherently a "better fan" than anyone else. People perpetuating that idea seem to be making up for other severe deficiencies in their lives.

Yeah, whether you're a Sunshine Club member or a Fire Everybody till we Win person, it shows you care. And when you care, you're a fan.

 

[thunderkyss]

Yeah, hopefully we'll get an experienced coach, like Jimmy Johnson, Wade Phillips, Dave Wanstedt, Mike Ditka, Steve Mariuchi, Mike Martz, or something like that.

I mentioned these coaches, because they've all had some semblence of success, then went on to another team, & didn't fair so well.

Jimmy Johnson couldn't get it started in Miami. Wannstedt came in, did ok, but left a 1-8 team midseason. For me, that is unacceptable. Some of you may welcome it, but I would not appreciate two play-off seasons then be dumped mid-way through the next season.

Mariuchi was successful in San Francisco "he's a great coach" & bombed in Detroit.

Martz... same thing, except he inherited a Super Bowl team.

Wade Phillips.... I really have no beef with, I just threw him in there, because he isn't very popular.

Mike Shanahan, Bill Cowher, Marty Schotenheimer, Mike Holmgren... all successful, "proven" head coaches.. if they come here, & they work out, great..... but there is no such thing as a "proven head coach". We're just as likely to find success with the next Sean Peyton, or Mike Singletary ( I like him as a head coach), or the next Bellichick.

Ditka.. did he have a winning season in New Orleans? Forget what he did in Chicago, it didn't help the Saints one bit.


& in case there is something wrong with your reading comprehension.... I'm not saying that Kubiak is better than any of these guys. I'm just saying our next head coach can be a dud, regardless his "track record.

 

[noxiousdog]

& in case there is something wrong with your reading comprehension.... I'm not saying that Kubiak is better than any of these guys. I'm just saying our next head coach can be a dud, regardless his "track record.

Like Capers It certainly seems like a great hire at the time.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

Ditka and Johnson have not coached in 10 years. They are probably not ever going to coach again.

Agreed, but should the mention of their name make you vomit?

Wannestedt bailed out on his team after going 1-8 in 2004. He just need to stay wherever he is hinding.

Wannstedt isn't in hiding. He is coaching for Pitt and came one missed extra point from BCS.

Wade Philips - maybe as a DC but not a head coach. I am a little concerned if the reports are true that the OC is making more than him as to why did he stay on in Dallas?

Why is Wade a bad head coach? How can Gary be a good head coach if he has a losing record, yet Wade sucks? Biased anyone? Dude has led three different franchises to playoffs. Kubiak has done nothing but lose football games. But whatever, Kubiak is better....*rolls eyes*

Martz in my opinion is done as a HC and probably an OC. Wasn't that good in Detroit, but not all his fault there. Did not do much in SF and was not there long. Read that he wants to coach in Buffalo, probably because no one else wants to. I just don't like him - not sure why.

I know why you don't like him. Because he is nearly unlikeable. But he has proven to be a better head coach than Kubiak. He is an ahole though

Mariucci, while an ok coach - did get the 49ers in the playoffs, but did not win. Did he not take over from Siefert? Maybe he got into the playoffs because of the team Siefert left him.

They did win in the playoffs. Remember the TO catch against the Packers. Mariucci is a great guy but may be a bit too nice to be a championship caliber head coach.

I don't think I have said that we need to keep Kubiak. I also do not support the pink soap. I do not want to change the coach just to change the coach. Now if they were to get someone like Cowher, Marty or Holmgrin . . .

Now your speakin' my language. We agree. I don't want to fire Kubiak to hire some other unproven guy. No way in hell. But we owe to our players and fanbase to try something else and give it a shot if a better opportunity was to come along (cowher, marty, etc.) We agree on this note and probably on a lot more than we realize.

But nothing I say or do has any bearing on what the Texans do. I have absolutely no control over what the decide. I am a fan and will continue to be a fan weither it be Kubiak or someone else as the HC next year.

Totally agree. I may not keep my season tickets, but rest assured, I will be in front of my TV or in front of the field on Sundays, win or lose. I just want to win this time I am sure we both do.

Merry Christmas, Grams. May we both get our Christmas wish. WINNING FOOTBALL!!

 

[WWJD]

I wonder if Mariucci ever gets considered for head coaching jobs or if he's just content with his TV job?

He had SOME success...and he's fairly young.

 

[thunderkyss]

I wonder if Mariucci ever gets considered for head coaching jobs or if he's just content with his TV job?

He had SOME success...and he's fairly young.

Personally I think Mooch & Martz hurt themselves by taking that job in Detroit. I would bet it's difficult for anyone to consider hiring them as a HC, after that gig.

 

[Second Honeymoon]

Personally I think Mooch & Martz hurt themselves by taking that job in Detroit. I would bet it's difficult for anyone to consider hiring them as a HC, after that gig.

Totally agree. The last coach who had a decent run of success was Wayne Fontes and he was on the hot seat annually it seemed.

To be honest, the franchise hasn't recovered from Barry Sander's early retirement. It's kinda sad given how much trouble Detroit is having as a city. 20%+ unemployment sucks.

Merry Christmas and Seasons Greetings to everyone

 

[houstonspartan]

Totally agree. The last coach who had a decent run of success was Wayne Fontes and he was on the hot seat annually it seemed.

To be honest, the franchise hasn't recovered from Barry Sander's early retirement. It's kinda sad given how much trouble Detroit is having as a city. 20%+ unemployment sucks.

Merry Christmas and Seasons Greetings to everyone

I'm from Michigan, and I don't think it was Barry Sanders' retirement that hurt the team. It was constant bad personnel decision making. They would get a coach in there, or a general manager, and it was clear after a few seasons that that person wasn't working. Instead of canning the person right away, they kept giving them extension after extension.

Matt Millen was GM for 8 years, and made so many bad decisions he set that franchise back something like 13 or 14 years. It was clear after about four years or so that Millens plans weren't working, but the owner liked him and let him stay. It was a disaster.

 

[Grams]

Merry Christmas, Grams. May we both get our Christmas wish. WINNING FOOTBALL!!

Merry Christmas to you too!!

I meant to say Mariucci did not win the SB not the playoffs. Thought he did ok in SF, just not sure if he took over a good team and how he drafted for them. Think they tanked after he left. Nobody seems to do well in Detroit.

Hope everyone has a very happy and safe Holiday.

 

[barrett]

are you guys still arguing about other teams coaches?

 

[Grams]

are you guys still arguing about other teams coaches?

Not really.

 

[disaacks3]

So, I'm waiting for all the exuberant shows of support after today's resounding win over the powerhouse Rams. Kubes clock-management, disciplined team and overall step-on-their throats tenacity is almost enough to make me switch my vote!

 

[mexican_texan]

I totally understand he's not going anywhere. I still voted to fire him now. That way next year I'll be well entrenched in the "I TOLD YOU SO!" crowd. Kubiak lost me this year.

I'm typically a shiny, but this has been one pathetic performance too many. I understand Foster fumbled early, but he was doing a lot better than Chris Brown.

 

[Goldensilence]

Totally agree. The last coach who had a decent run of success was Wayne Fontes and he was on the hot seat annually it seemed.

To be honest, the franchise hasn't recovered from Barry Sander's early retirement. It's kinda sad given how much trouble Detroit is having as a city. 20%+ unemployment sucks.

Merry Christmas and Seasons Greetings to everyone

I don't think it was just Sander's early retirement, it was hiring and continuing to retain Matt Millen as GM. Him and his staff seemed like it always did a bad job of evaluating talent and how it translates to the NFL.

I think right now they are headed in the right direction with Schwartz.

I actually think Martz did a good job in Detroit as an OC for the most part. I think the team loses even more without him guiding the offense.

Martz's problem has always been his ego and that he can't seem to figure out how to keep his QB protected.