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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

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Kubiak's offenses were largely trash until around 2009-2010....which is coincidentally around the same time Bobby Feeno started lining up in his backfield. Before that, his offenses were largely trash........& that's with baby shanahan on staff as the OC too.


The extent of Kubiak's creativity was the play action boot...about as dull as you can get & that **** didn't work if AF27 was bottled up. No trickery, no innovativeness nor modern passing concepts.

Some of the **** that gets said on here reeks of saltiness & you guys ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
 
infantrycak said:
You're smoking your own propaganda. The Texans went from 28th to 12th in 2007 with the swap to Schaub.

Lol at no modern passing concepts. He schemed people so open there'd be no defender on camera.
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yeah i'm sure those 9 TD's Schaub threw that year was the catalyst for that jump.
 
Mr teX said:
Kubiak's offenses were largely trash until around 2009-2010....which is coincidentally around the same time Bobby Feeno started lining up in his backfield. Before that, his offenses were largely trash........& that's with baby shanahan on staff as the OC too.


The extent of Kubiak's creativity was the play action boot...about as dull as you can get & that **** didn't work if AF27 was bottled up. No trickery, no innovativeness nor modern passing concepts.

Some of the **** that gets said on here reeks of saltiness & you guys ought to be ashamed of yourselves.
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You're just wrong here. Kubiak's offense was good even before AF. Much better after. He couldn't fix Carr, but after that offense was good
 
JB said:
You're just wrong here. Kubiak's offense was good even before AF. Much better after. He couldn't fix Carr, but after that offense was good
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Trash was a little extreme, but the rankings of the offenses in those years & the overall team records back up that they really were at best average. No top 10 offense until Foster.
 
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infantrycak said:
They went from 3000 yds passing and 14 TDs to 4000 yds 24 TDs. This is the 1st season OB has approached that trash.
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Yep....right as Arian started toting the rock for him. & it would make sense seeing as BoB just got his franchise guy last year...That's what a premium talent will do for you. Just like Arian did for Kubiak's scheme.
 
Mr teX said:
Yep....right as Arian started toting the rock for him. & it would make sense seeing as BoB just got his franchise guy last year...That's what a premium talent will do for you. Just like Arian did for Kubiak's scheme.
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2007 was Dayne & Green. Foster didn't start until 2010.

2009 the Texans were 10th on pts & 4th in yards.

The addition of Foster...

2010 the Texans were 9th on pts & 3rd in yards.

Clearly it was great having Foster but he was not the genesis of the Texans' offense.
 
Marcus said:
Oh yeah, it’s got nothing to do with the OL problems, it has nothing to do with WR injuries, it has nothing to do with Watson not able to throw the ball away. Nothing to do with holding the players at all responsible.

Just do your thing and regurgitate the same f’cking ****.
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Oh yeah, Bill O'Brien didn't choose these players and coach them up.

It's year 5 and you're giving him the excuses of a rookie coach.

Never fire the coach, always hold the players responsible. Great gig if you can find a franchise dumb enough to give it to you.
 
Mr teX said:
Trash was a little extreme, but the rankings of the offenses in those years & the overall team records back up that they really were at best average. No top 10 offense until Foster.
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Bill O'Brien has never built even an average offense.

"Not top 10 until Foster." I mean, it's not like Kubiak found and developed Foster or anything.

So when will O'Brien be top 20? Year 6?
 
Mr teX said:
Yep....right as Arian started toting the rock for him. & it would make sense seeing as BoB just got his franchise guy last year...That's what a premium talent will do for you. Just like Arian did for Kubiak's scheme.
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Except O'Brien hasn't done any better with Watson. His offense still sucks.
 
TheKDog said:
I wasn't on the fire Kubes bandwagon either.
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I didn't want him fired, but I wasn't heartbroken to see him go. I thought the Texans did him dirty, with his health issues & all. But I heard he asked to be let go if they were going to things the way they appeared to be set on doing things.

No lie, I loved me some Kubiak. But that thing with broke Schaub... didn't really care much for him after that.

BO'b... sorry, but other than a 9 game win streak I'm not seeing much evidence of "coaching."

Would I drink a beer with him? Sure. I might even buy him one. Would I like to talk football with him? Of course. But if I were starting a team tomorrow, one of two Texans HCs would be on my interview list & BO'b wouldn't be the one.
 
Just as predicted. All they had to do was lose again, (as no doubt some of you hoped) and the rats come crawling out.

I got a real kick watching all the seething going during that 9 game winning streak. That was pure entertainment.
 
Marcus said:
Just as predicted. All they had to do was lose again, (as no doubt some of you hoped) and the rats come crawling out.

I got a real kick watching all the seething going during that 9 game winning streak. That was pure entertainment.
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So they're above reproach winning or losing. Gotcha.
 
thunderkyss said:
I didn't want him fired, but I wasn't heartbroken to see him go. I thought the Texans did him dirty, with his health issues & all. But I heard he asked to be let go if they were going to things the way they appeared to be set on doing things.

No lie, I loved me some Kubiak. But that thing with broke Schaub... didn't really care much for him after that.

BO'b... sorry, but other than a 9 game win streak I'm not seeing much evidence of "coaching."

Would I drink a beer with him? Sure. I might even buy him one. Would I like to talk football with him? Of course. But if I were starting a team tomorrow, one of two Texans HCs would be on my interview list & BO'b wouldn't be the one.
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I was right there with ya until that last sentence
 
He's not going to get fired. It's clear that the quality and sustainability of play doesn't matter so long as empty wins are on the board.

Which is funny because I thought we brought in Bill O'Brien to advance from "paper champion" status of the 2011/2012 Texans, but oh well I guess.
 
How about we let the season finish before we hail BoB as the saviour of Houston football and /or call for his head.

These kind of discussions are what you typically see in the off season or mid season if the team is getting destroyed everytime they step on the field.

Never seen a fan base coming off a 9 game win streak, a playoff spot with a possible 2nd seed bye and a possible franchise QB with a franchise WR and scary has hell defense say how much their team sucks and everyone should be fired.

I'm not on the BoB bandwagon but I'm also going to give the devil his due and admit that the season has been turned around and, deserving or not, BoB is the HC so he gets credit for that.

The really funny thing is that BoB is not going anywhere anytime soon unless he resigns. Teams don't fire a HC that is having his kind of season unless they are doing a serious shake up. So I suggest everyone sits back, chills out and hope for a good draft/FA to fix our on field problems because whatever problems there are on the sideline, real or imagined, aren't going to change this year or the next.
 
maverick512000 said:
How about we let the season finish before we hail BoB as the saviour of Houston football and /or call for his head.

These kind of discussions are what you typically see in the off season or mid season if the team is getting destroyed everytime they step on the field.

Never seen a fan base coming off a 9 game win streak, a playoff spot with a possible 2nd seed bye and a possible franchise QB with a franchise WR and scary has hell defense say how much their team sucks and everyone should be fired.

I'm not on the BoB bandwagon but I'm also going to give the devil his due and admit that the season has been turned around and, deserving or not, BoB is the HC so he gets credit for that.

The really funny thing is that BoB is not going anywhere anytime soon unless he resigns. Teams don't fire a HC that is having his kind of season unless they are doing a serious shake up. So I suggest everyone sits back, chills out and hope for a good draft/FA to fix our on field problems because whatever problems there are on the sideline, real or imagined, aren't going to change this year or the next.
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Well, I’ll be damned. A voice of reason for a change.
 
maverick512000 said:
How about we let the season finish before we hail BoB as the saviour of Houston football and /or call for his head.

These kind of discussions are what you typically see in the off season or mid season if the team is getting destroyed everytime they step on the field.

Never seen a fan base coming off a 9 game win streak, a playoff spot with a possible 2nd seed bye and a possible franchise QB with a franchise WR and scary has hell defense say how much their team sucks and everyone should be fired.

I'm not on the BoB bandwagon but I'm also going to give the devil his due and admit that the season has been turned around and, deserving or not, BoB is the HC so he gets credit for that.

The really funny thing is that BoB is not going anywhere anytime soon unless he resigns. Teams don't fire a HC that is having his kind of season unless they are doing a serious shake up. So I suggest everyone sits back, chills out and hope for a good draft/FA to fix our on field problems because whatever problems there are on the sideline, real or imagined, aren't going to change this year or the next.
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Yep, might as well sit back and watch the rest of this movie.
:popcorn:
Trying to 'write the script' is just an exercise in frustration.
 
amazing80 said:
Anyone who is defending OB the OC is an idiot and not worth the loss of air.
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I don't like BoB the OC, I think that's why his offense seems so predictable. Not because he's bad at it but because he's wearing to many hats. If he could focus just on being the OC I think the offense would be in good shape but there is just one little problem, he's also that little thing called the HC. There is no way week to week that he has enough time to give the OC job the attention it deserves with all the work being the HC calls for.

To me BoB the HC seems fine and has the respect of the locker room and his players seem to go out and play hard for him. I do wish though that he would let go of the reigns enough to hire an OC but I understand to. This is his first job as the HC and anyone who has been a manager or seen a first time manager will tell you the hardest part is learning to give up control where needed and not try to be everything to everybody. BoB, in his eyes at least, got burned by OCs and his job was on the line because of it, so he did what most of us would have done and said to hell with it I'll do it myself.

Other than that I really don't have an issue with him as a coach. I find his attitude towards the media to be fun to watch but then I have very little respect for so called journalists so anytime someone smacks them like a puppy I get a chuckle out of it. As for reports that he yells at players the only one that seems to have had an issue with that is Osweiler. Current team seems to have no issue with it even if he does yell.
 
maverick512000 said:
I don't like BoB the OC, I think that's why his offense seems so predictable. Not because he's bad at it but because he's wearing to many hats. If he could focus just on being the OC I think the offense would be in good shape but there is just one little problem, he's also that little thing called the HC. There is no way week to week that he has enough time to give the OC job the attention it deserves with all the work being the HC calls for.

To me BoB the HC seems fine and has the respect of the locker room and his players seem to go out and play hard for him. I do wish though that he would let go of the reigns enough to hire an OC but I understand to. This is his first job as the HC and anyone who has been a manager or seen a first time manager will tell you the hardest part is learning to give up control where needed and not try to be everything to everybody. BoB, in his eyes at least, got burned by OCs and his job was on the line because of it, so he did what most of us would have done and said to hell with it I'll do it myself.

Other than that I really don't have an issue with him as a coach. I find his attitude towards the media to be fun to watch but then I have very little respect for so called journalists so anytime someone smacks them like a puppy I get a chuckle out of it. As for reports that he yells at players the only one that seems to have had an issue with that is Osweiler. Current team seems to have no issue with it even if he does yell.
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I would like to see OB hire an OC. I am OK with promoting from within. One thing that has limited this offense has been the O-line. Issues at WR hasn't helped. How much different is this team if Fuller and Coutee are healthy. Fix the O-line, though, and you've done a lot to fix the offense.

As far as OB yelling at players, I am good with a HC with some fire in his belly. OB's no 1 good trait as a HC is instilling a hard-nosed attitude in his players.
 
Marcus said:
Just as predicted. All they had to do was lose again, (as no doubt some of you hoped) and the rats come crawling out.

I got a real kick watching all the seething going during that 9 game winning streak. That was pure entertainment.
Click to expand...

Actually I've been pointing out that during the win streak the offense still looked bad, the opponents were usually bad and the games came down to the last second several times.

Nothing wrong with fans analyzing the team. The goal is to win the Super Bowl right? Even if the team wins 9 in a row doesn't automatically mean it isn't without flaws.

IMO combine this defense with a real offense and it's Super Bowl worthy.
 
TheKDog said:
Actually I've been pointing out that during the win streak the offense still looked bad, the opponents were usually bad and the games came down to the last second several times.

Nothing wrong with fans analyzing the team. The goal is to win the Super Bowl right? Even if the team wins 9 in a row doesn't automatically mean it isn't without flaws.

IMO combine this defense with a real offense and it's Super Bowl worthy.
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You have been consistent in your criticism and I don't disagree with some of your points. If this O-line and WR situation is fixed, I think BoB can deliver on offense. I know this is where we disagree.
 
Texas Jake said:
You have been consistent in your criticism and I don't disagree with some of your points. If this O-line and WR situation is fixed, I think BoB can deliver on offense. I know this is where we disagree.
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Yep, I think so. I agree the O-line and WR are issues holding the offense back. I question whether BoB can fix them (it was his decision to keep Coates and play Webb after all) but yes fixing those will help.
 
You have been consistent in your criticism and I don't disagree with some of your points. If this O-line and WR situation is fixed said:
What's "deliver?" The question is can he maximize all the talent he's given.
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I'm no BOB honk but "With the talent he's given" it looks like he's already done that this year and yea present returns are no guarantee of future returns but we have so many holes in so many places.

I'm still in awe somewhat that THIS team reeled off 9 wins no matter who we played especially after having lost 9 straight going back to last season.
 
The 'maximizing talent' argument isnt as strong as it was to begin the season. I look at what Frank Reich did from Game 1 to Game 2 and its like 2 different teams. Reich was able to cut down sacks and TFL's in half with a 'protect at all costs' game plan. Indy only blitzed like 10 times the whole game! Watson nutted up, The OL nutted up and O'Brien nutted up too. We did the same thing we did in the first game. Indy knew what we 'like' to do and they took it all away. Thats coaching.

I have seen great wrinkles .. more zone stretch stuff. TE involvement. Muddle huddle. What I dont see is consistency and you never really know what kind of offense you're going to get on any certain day. Not only on O'Brien of course, but he does have his part. Some guys just paint him to be the second coming of George Halas or something and get all apoplectic if you are even remotely critical of him, but yet they are perfectly fine pointing out all the other 'flaws' of the team? Interesting to say the least.
 
Uncle Rico said:
The 'maximizing talent' argument isnt as strong as it was to begin the season. I look at what Frank Reich did from Game 1 to Game 2 and its like 2 different teams. Reich was able to cut down sacks and TFL's in half with a 'protect at all costs' game plan. Indy only blitzed like 10 times the whole game! Watson nutted up, The OL nutted up and O'Brien nutted up too. We did the same thing we did in the first game. Indy knew what we 'like' to do and they took it all away. Thats coaching.

I have seen great wrinkles .. more zone stretch stuff. TE involvement. Muddle huddle. What I dont see is consistency and you never really know what kind of offense you're going to get on any certain day. Not only on O'Brien of course, but he does have his part. Some guys just paint him to be the second coming of George Halas or something and get all apoplectic if you are even remotely critical of him, but yet they are perfectly fine pointing out all the other 'flaws' of the team? Interesting to say the least.
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Indy invested in their OL.

Houston not so much. (Thanks Ricky)

You wont see the consistency you're looking for until, 1 Watson becomes more experienced. 2. The OL gets fixed.
 
Crennel doesn't seem to have this problem on the defense. Yeah everyone in the league could use more talent but when you see those undrafted players making a name for themselves, sometimes that's the coaching.
 
steelbtexan said:
Indy invested in their OL.

Houston not so much. (Thanks Ricky)

You wont see the consistency you're looking for until, 1 Watson becomes more experienced. 2. The OL gets fixed.
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so Houston needs an elite offensive line to be effective. Got it, and Watson needs to play 'better' .. truly eye opening stuff. Funny that if its all on "Ricky" how was Kubiak able to find and develop elite offensive linemen if the only high first round pick was Duane Brown? I guess Ricky was only intentionally sabotaging Bill O'Brien because he just hated doing a good job for Ol' Buttchin? LOL

Hey the Chinese are going to land on the 'dark side of the moon' next month, do you have any spicy alien conspiracy stories?

also: we must have the best blocking TEs in history since our rushing attack is 6th ranked and we have the 'worst possible OL' .. whats the story of how Bill fixed the OL Im dying to hear that one too.
 
Uncle Rico said:
so Houston needs an elite offensive line to be effective. Got it, and Watson needs to play 'better' .. truly eye opening stuff. Funny that if its all on "Ricky" how was Kubiak able to find and develop elite offensive linemen if the only high first round pick was Duane Brown? I guess Ricky was only intentionally sabotaging Bill O'Brien because he just hated doing a good job for Ol' Buttchin? LOL

Hey the Chinese are going to land on the 'dark side of the moon' next month, do you have any spicy alien conspiracy stories?

also: we must have the best blocking TEs in history since our rushing attack is 6th ranked and we have the 'worst possible OL' .. whats the story of how Bill fixed the OL Im dying to hear that one too.
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Kubiak had a relationship with and was able to talk out of retirement perhaps the greatest OL coach of all time (and certainly of teaching the ZBS) in Alex Gibbs. Before that the OL was average at best
 
Uncle Rico said:
so Houston needs an elite offensive line to be effective. Got it, and Watson needs to play 'better' .. truly eye opening stuff. Funny that if its all on "Ricky" how was Kubiak able to find and develop elite offensive linemen if the only high first round pick was Duane Brown? I guess Ricky was only intentionally sabotaging Bill O'Brien because he just hated doing a good job for Ol' Buttchin? LOL

Hey the Chinese are going to land on the 'dark side of the moon' next month, do you have any spicy alien conspiracy stories?

also: we must have the best blocking TEs in history since our rushing attack is 6th ranked and we have the 'worst possible OL' .. whats the story of how Bill fixed the OL Im dying to hear that one too.
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They need a LT and probably a RT.

What did all of that get Kubiak?
 
infantrycak said:
2007 was Dayne & Green. Foster didn't start until 2010.

2009 the Texans were 10th on pts & 4th in yards.

The addition of Foster...

2010 the Texans were 9th on pts & 3rd in yards.

Clearly it was great having Foster but he was not the genesis of the Texans' offense.
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U keep moving the goal posts to suit your argument...that’s b/c u know that after that initial jump from 28 to 12 in total offensive ranking you spoke of in an earlier post, the team took a backslide back to 17 the following year. Then you switched it up to this "see, but look we were 10th in pts and 4th in yards.." crap. so what is it, total offensive ranking, pts or yards you want to point to next?

Fact of the matter is There's a stark before and after with Foster which pretty much proves what I'm saying. Kubiak's offenses had made strides before him but didn't officially reach top 10 in total offense under him until 2009.....Again right as Foster started carrying the rock for him. He had 2 breakout games against MIA and NE that year where he amassed more than 1/2 the yardage of Slaton, in literally less than 1/2 the carries and 1/10 of the starts...……….both of those games he saw significant time in also led to wins agains MIA and NE by the way....Kubiak's offense also consistently ranked inside the top 10 as long as prime Foster was healthy & the main guy. Of course, the EXACT year Foster went down for the 1st time in 2013, Kubiak's offense bottomed out...…………………like literally to the 31st overall ranking & this despite a capable back up in Tate. He was clearly the driving force for Kubiak's offense reaching elite status. To deny that is ignorance at its core.
 
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Uncle Rico said:
so Houston needs an elite offensive line to be effective. Got it, and Watson needs to play 'better' .. truly eye opening stuff. Funny that if its all on "Ricky" how was Kubiak able to find and develop elite offensive linemen if the only high first round pick was Duane Brown? I guess Ricky was only intentionally sabotaging Bill O'Brien because he just hated doing a good job for Ol' Buttchin? LOL

Hey the Chinese are going to land on the 'dark side of the moon' next month, do you have any spicy alien conspiracy stories?

also: we must have the best blocking TEs in history since our rushing attack is 6th ranked and we have the 'worst possible OL' .. whats the story of how Bill fixed the OL Im dying to hear that one too.
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How about just an average o-line that doesn't need the TE & rbs to stay in & block every damn play?

you guys can't be this dense.

Rick was a Denver guy...familiar with what shanahan/kubiak and that group looked for in their scheme as it relates to o-lineman...Its why Kubiak brought him over... But since you asked, DB was a 1st round draft pick....Winston was a 1st round talent that fell to the 3rd b/c he was coming off an ACL & Ricky's familiarity with Denver's roster is likely also why they went after Chris Myers as an unrestricted FA...……………………. who was drafted by who else Denver. Gibbs was very obviously a premium move by Kubiak, but clearly not the only factor in how that o-line developed. All of this...... You know why that happened right? We heard it all offseason from BoB when he spoke about what it meant to have Gaine as his GM...……..its called ORGANIZATIONAL ALIGNMENT. Bringing over Rick.....bringing in Gibbs.....they were familiar with what Kubiak wanted.
 
Mr teX said:
U keep moving the goal posts to suit your argument...that’s b/c u know that after that initial jump from 28 to 12 in total offensive ranking you spoke of in an earlier post, the team took a backslide back to 17 the following year. Then you switched it up to this "see, but look we were 10th in pts and 4th in yards.." crap. so what is it, total offensive ranking, pts or yards you want to point to next?

Fact of the matter is There's a stark before and after with Foster which pretty much proves what I'm saying. Kubiak's offenses had made strides before him but didn't officially reach top 10 in total offense under him until 2009.....Again right as Foster started carrying the rock for him. He had 2 breakout games against MIA and NE that year where he amassed more than 1/2 the yardage of Slaton, in literally less than 1/2 the carries and 1/10 of the starts...……….both of those games he saw significant time in also led to wins agains MIA and NE by the way....Kubiak's offense also consistently ranked inside the top 10 as long as prime Foster was healthy & the main guy. Of course, the EXACT year Foster went down for the 1st time in 2013, Kubiak's offense bottomed out...…………………like literally to the 31st overall ranking & this despite a capable back up in Tate. He was clearly the driving force for Kubiak's offense reaching elite status. To deny that is ignorance at its core.
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You are attributing Kubiak's success to Foster, but should we attribute Foster's success to Kubiak's coaching? I meant that as an honest question, not rhetorical. It's not like Foster was a high priced FA or a high draft pick. He was an undrafted free agent! He was a guy that wasn't expected to do anything in this league.
 
TheKDog said:
The maximizing talent also fails when you realize that the offensive production isn't much better than the previous 5 years.

Are we really saying Watson isn't a lot better than the other QBs O'Brien brought in? If he is, why does the offense still suck?
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Very strong point right here gents.
 
steelbtexan said:
Fix the OL and add a WR,
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Texas Jake said:
and WR situation is fixed
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The OLine absolutely needs fixing. The WR position is in good shape, in my opinion, when healthy. Hopkins, Fuller, Coutee is a really good group. This Carter kid may be a great find off the waiver/PS lists. Not every team is going to have 6 bad ass WR's. Most will have 2 maybe 3 and then JAGS. Would I still draft a WR next year, yes. But the Texans trio is pretty damn good, when healthy.
 
dream_team said:
You are attributing Kubiak's success to Foster, but should we attribute Foster's success to Kubiak's coaching? I meant that as an honest question, not rhetorical. It's not like Foster was a high priced FA or a high draft pick. He was an undrafted free agent! He was a guy that wasn't expected to do anything in this league.
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Undrafted FA's can sign with whomever wants to bring them in. AF27 chose Houston b/c he correctly thought he'd have a better shot at getting on the field than anyone else who wanted him...…….and according to him, he had offers from other teams as an undrafted FA.

So no, Kubiak should thank AF27 for signing with the Texans and taking his scheme to the next level.
 
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Texansballer74 said:
Very strong point right here gents.
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not really when you consider that:

A. the team has still been able to win...on track to = the franchise's best regular season record
B. There are still glaring holes that clearly limit this team.
C. The offensive production is in fact actually better than it has been in the previous five years. The individual numbers bear that out....the team numbers bear that out......most importantly, the number in the W column bear that out.


Contrary to what a few in here would like to believe, the team isn't winning strictly with defense.
 
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