How so?
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How so?
Because their brains get warped from constantly forgetting that NFL defenses are way too talented for that dink in dunk, run and shoot, type of offense. And it discourages the deep pass.
And do you want your QB to get murdered? That’s how they get murdered.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
You are witnessing the evolution of football. Funny you feel that way because it's only when Obrien commits to RPO with Watson that this offense clicks and can terrorize a defense. Tennessee has a good defensive unit and we spread them out and bullied them. Now he needs to embrace it fully and become consistent each week.
bigmck
Rookie
It looks like Jack Pardee was many years ahead of his time with the Run and Shoot.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
The stats don't bear out your opinion. The modern offense is going to score, Baltimore who arguably has the best defense this year has had issues containing those offenses.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
There are way more complex route trees and movement than to simply have 5 receivers go out for a pass. Defenses caught up to the run and shoot and wildcat let's see how long before they catch up to the RPO with a truly dynamic QB.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
I didn’t watch the game. It seems like this is the first game called that everyone has been saying wow.
Could it be that Sean Ryan called his first game? It has been been speculated that he could be the OC in training.
Could it be that Sean Ryan called his first game? It has been been speculated that he could be the OC in training.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Because any part of an offensive strategy that doesn’t involve the pursuit of scoring a million pts at all times throughout a game and slinging the ball around for 4 qtrs is frowned upon.
We had 27 pts on the board...running game was humming and the defense was stifling. Yet u still had people whining about “turtle mode” b/c there were a few drives in the 3rd where BoB elected to run on a 3rd and short instead of passing it.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
The evolution huh? Except the teams who have dominated college football and NFL football for the last decade plus haven’t been these high-flying air raid teams ya’ll think are so superior. Bama and NE have actually been closer to the ball control, run it down your throat tough defensive-minded and efficient teams ya’ll think are outdated.
The problem with these types of air raid systems ya’ll think are superior is that they are possession-dependent and really not efficient when it comes down to it. when you run into teams capable of scoring when they need to and can limit your possessions in the process...& then can slow u down enough defensively, those types of offenses function much differently.
Why u ask? B/c the clock is on their backs and they start taking more & more chances passing the ball...which puts them at higher risks for TO’s.
What makes NO a great offense is that they can run it pretty much at will with Kamara/Ingram and they play clock when it matters most. They have won several games this year in blowout fashion with Brees throwing the ball for a little over 200 yards..... or less. They are efficient as hell.
KC is explosive, but Mahomes has had to be MVP level great for them to win just about all of their games.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
By the way, you’re wrong...as usual about BoB commuting to the RPO as to why the offense began to click. The play that broke the game open...was a straight power up the middle...same damn play ya’ll complain about every damn week. The drive before that, Miller was ripping off 10-15 yard chunks on it. The zone read **** was just a wrinkle at the end of the drive that finished it off....& that’s exactly how it should be used...ya’ll want to feature it.
It was definitely an improvement yesterday. I like the heave use of play-action like last year and getting Watson moving a little bit. It wasn't predictable. The running game was impressive. Watson still get hit a few too many times but run blocking looked good.
Let's hope this keeps up. Defense was great as usual.
Let's hope this keeps up. Defense was great as usual.
Rich Schmidt
Myopicone
DW4 looked healthy last night, finally. Now keep our shiny toy healthy please. It does appear BOB did some game management while the kid was really hurt and started to let him go last night, and DW4 felt like he could run etc as well. He was really having fun last night when you watched him. Running for 280 must feel good physically beating down the dredded Tacks and Vrabel. We whipped them on the lines
Watson definitely took some unnecessary hits that were on him. He fought for an extra few yards or held on too long when the game was pretty much over. But yeah he looked extremely fast.
I dont know if this post was meant for me, but like I said in my post above BOB's met my expectations for this yr. What are your expectations and will anything less than a SB win make you feel differently about BOB. Because if your a SB or bust guy this yr your going to be unhappy.
I dont mean this badly but your one of the guys that didn't like the BOB hire or hate anything that's related to the Pats so you're one of the guys that's prejudged BOB.
BTW, I dont think BOB is the best coach in the NFL, but he has come up with solid gameplans to 1. Win games 2. Keep Watson healthy and that's good enough for me this yr.
Is it a bummer that I'm going to have to pay for a playoff game this yr for a team that has a low chance to win a SB this yr. Of course it is, but I really loved the atmosphere out there last night and I'm looking forward to the playoff atmosphere. It's awesome.
You have taken the criticism of O’Brien’s offense and built your own straw man argument. No knowledgeable fan is calling for the Texans to run an Air Raid offense. Especially with this OL.
Is asking for screens, combination routes, faster developing plays and fewer dive plays calling for an Air Raid offense?
^^^^
This and yes, beating down the Titans, especially with a Titans/VY fan sitting behind me was awesome.
markn
All Pro
BoB made many mistakes at the beginning of the season and his team looked badly prepared and out of their depth. His play calling was a disaster and his clock management was dreadful. It did not look like he had the self-awareness to fix any of these things.
While still far from perfect, he's demonstrated that he can self-scout, identify fundamental weaknesses in his team and himself and make corrections. This is the only area I believe many people mis-judged him. I for one did not believe he could assess and correct the way he has.
He's far from the perfect coach, and he's not the QB whisperer we may have been sold, but he's beginning to look like a competent NFL head coach able to beat mediocre teams.
He doesn't deserve to be fired, but he's hardly the second-coming either.
While still far from perfect, he's demonstrated that he can self-scout, identify fundamental weaknesses in his team and himself and make corrections. This is the only area I believe many people mis-judged him. I for one did not believe he could assess and correct the way he has.
He's far from the perfect coach, and he's not the QB whisperer we may have been sold, but he's beginning to look like a competent NFL head coach able to beat mediocre teams.
He doesn't deserve to be fired, but he's hardly the second-coming either.
Ryan will be the OC next yr. IMHO
Hopefully BOB does even better after Gaine adds talent so BOB has a chance to look even better. Also I hope BOB names Ryan as OC next offseason and that helps his game mgmt even more.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
We run plenty of all of the above in this offense. i just think most of you guys don't really know what you're looking at when you say the things you're saying above. Every damn pass play is a combination route...these guys aren't out here running the routes they think will work independently & on their own. Faster developing plays...yeah that's all the Titans used yesterday & you saw the results. those type of plays don't allow for you to attack downfield regularly something that's essential in the NFL.
& for the record, my opinion doesn't stem from anything related to BoB's offense. It stems from the way in which fans seem to be pushing the NFL...b/c it makes the game more "exciting"
. I got no level of enjoyment out of watching all those 80's & early 90's blowout SB's...nor did i enjoy that Chiefs Rams game all that much a couple of weeks ago. My whole thoughts are that If you need to see a bunch of points scored to get excited about the game, you're not a true fan of the game to begin with. You're more of an Arena league fan.
We run plenty of all of the above in this offense. i just think most of you guys don't really know what you're looking at when you say the things you're saying above. Every damn pass play is a combination route...these guys aren't out here running the routes they think will work independently & on their own. Faster developing plays...yeah that's all the Titans used yesterday & you saw the results. those type of plays don't allow for you to attack downfield regularly something that's essential in the NFL.
& for the record, my opinion doesn't stem from anything related to BoB's offense. It stems from the way in which fans seem to be pushing the NFL...b/c it makes the game more "exciting"
Agreed
And welcome to God'ell's vision of the NFL.
markn
All Pro
There's still huge concern over the O-Line and CBs for me. Resolving our own FAs and fixing these problems will be a challenge for Gaine this off-season. I think we're one stellar off-season away from becoming genuine challengers.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
So you are saying forego the new found passing concepts to continue to pound the round peg into the square hole?
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/all/team/season/week/lamar-miller/MIL373118/2018/12/carry No he wasnt 'ripping' off huge chunks with the inside dive. He did it on one play for 97 yards and a score. Perfectly blocked, pathetic tackling by Tennessee. If you want to bang the 'run the ball to set up the pass' drum then change the tune of the post and I would agree.
Watson kept the defense at bay with his legs last night apart from the TD he picked up 5 FIRST DOWNS with his legs. You say he's going to get hurt? He seems to get knocked around alot more when he tries to mimic Brady, but that would have to be because Bob finally figured out that you cant drop him back 40 times a game and get him beat the **** up. Watson is not Tom Brady, or Big Ben or any other successful statue out there, those guys are on the endangered species list.
1st TD 5 wideouts
2nd TD RPO with a TE lead blocking
Watson big 30 yard scramble - play action
DT 2nd TD - play action
It has been when Obrien has shifted AWAY from what he wants to do and REVERTS back to what Watson is good at that this offense has flourished whether you care to believe it or not, I mean nobody wants to pop your Obrien subjectivity bubble thats for sure.
So since the Texans have the 4th best rushing offense now courtesy of last night will they continue to be effective? they started off the season as one of the leaders in rushing, then they got away from it, now they've found it again. Consistency is the key for good coaching and last night was Bill Obriens signature moment in play calling HALLELUJAH! He mixed in all the different concepts, he kept Tennessee guessing (even had Vrable saying how the Texans deviated from the norm and had them confused) that tells me that alot of defensive coordinators have a preconceived notion of an Obrien offense and how to be successful in stopping it.
delete
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
So you are saying forego the new found passing concepts to continue to pound the round peg into the square hole?
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/list/all/team/season/week/lamar-miller/MIL373118/2018/12/carry No he wasnt 'ripping' off huge chunks with the inside dive. He did it on one play for 97 yards and a score. Perfectly blocked, pathetic tackling by Tennessee. If you want to bang the 'run the ball to set up the pass' drum then change the tune of the post and I would agree.
Watson kept the defense at bay with his legs last night apart from the TD he picked up 5 FIRST DOWNS with his legs. You say he's going to get hurt? He seems to get knocked around alot more when he tries to mimic Brady, but that would have to be because Bob finally figured out that you cant drop him back 40 times a game and get him beat the **** up. Watson is not Tom Brady, or Big Ben or any other successful statue out there, those guys are on the endangered species list.
1st TD 5 wideouts
2nd TD RPO with a TE lead blocking
Watson big 30 yard scramble - play action
DT 2nd TD - play action
It has been when Obrien has shifted AWAY from what he wants to do and REVERTS back to what Watson is good at that this offense has flourished whether you care to believe it or not, I mean nobody wants to pop your Obrien subjectivity bubble thats for sure.
So since the Texans have the 4th best rushing offense now courtesy of last night will they continue to be effective? they started off the season as one of the leaders in rushing, then they got away from it, now they've found it again. Consistency is the key for good coaching and last night was Bill Obriens signature moment in play calling HALLELUJAH! He mixed in all the different concepts, he kept Tennessee guessing (even had Vrable saying how the Texans deviated from the norm and had them confused) that tells me that alot of defensive coordinators have a preconceived notion of an Obrien offense and how to be successful in stopping it.
So much wrong with this post. You're making lots of assumptions that don't line up with what is actually happening....or you're just flat out WRONG. Look, the lynchpin to our offense has always been how well we run it. Truthfully, for most offenses that's the case.
We've literally been running & using all of these same passing concepts and formations ALL YEAR. The effectiveness of it & the passing game last night had next to zero to do with some drastic change in play calling by BoB you're insinuating. It had more to do with us ACTUALLY BEING ABLE TO RUN THE BALL genius. The stats bear this out.
Lamar Miller in our best offensive performances this year (Jax, MIA, TENN): 100 yds (4.55 ypc) , 133 yds (7.39 ypc), 162 yds (13.5 ypc).
Every last single game outside of those......where we have struggled to run the ball, we also struggled offensively & likewise Miller doesn't have a single 100 yd rushing game.
BoB has NEVER wanted to drop Watson back 30+ times..that's a narrative you and few others who are biased have come up with on your own. What he has wanted to do is BE BALANCED with the run pass ratio...he has said as much many many times over on the radio & elsewhere. But when you have protection problems & you fall behind, you can't always be that. Nevertheless, during this winning streak:
-That's why you've seen him stay committed to the run game even when its been ineffective & when alot of you idiots are wanting him to "put the ball in your best player's hands" and having him drop DW4 back & sling it 30 times a game.
-That's why the play action was so much more effective last night...a 97 yd TD run will scare the bejesus out of any defense & have them over committing to stop it.
As far as what you're trying to insinuate about DW4 running. Did you even watch the game last night? Most of his rushing yards & those runs for 1st downs that you're pointing out came AS PROTECTION BROKE DOWN IN THE POCKET & he had to make something happen...something DW4 would do & can do REGARDLESS of the play call. It's also when he has taken the most violent hits.
Aside from that, Deliberately running your qb should not be apart of any HC's regular offensive package...period; you're just asking for trouble.
BoB uses.....& has used DW4 legs as a wrinkle & he's done it all year. mostly in and around that 20 yd to goal line area........This is nothing new fam.
Literally everything you're saying we have been doing all year with varying degrees of success largely b/c of how successful the run game has been. There's never been this drastic change in playcalling you're trying to insinuate. Just a drastic change in your perception which has obviously been biased & flawed from the jump.
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Yep,
I think Gaine is the man to accomplish resolving these issues. Luckily Gaine has an extra 2nd this yr. That's huge. IMHO
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
why stop at a decade? why not bring out the WING T, or the double option from the 50's? Im sure Jim Brown and George Blanda know what a Yankee max protect combo is supposed to look like.
So KC is not efficient? LOL Rams not efficient? How about Philadelphia last year? Not efficient? Get with the times, those that get stuck in the past and dont innovate crash and burn, you want this guy Obrien to succeed so bad that you are willing to overlook any and all warts, you have NOT ONCE compromised and have been willing to accept that Obrien isnt some football messiah, hes a middle of the pack coach who is still figuring it out. Noone is saying "run chip kelly's spread" run "andy reid's WCO" or any particular boxed in 'method' why not incorporate the best of all of them? Why is the 'BILL OBRIEN SYSTEM' (whatever that is) the best thing since sliced bread?
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Well said, these are my thoughts exactly.
My biggest criticism on him, though, is his decision to double as the OC. He doesn't have the pedigree to warrant playing both roles as the HC and OC.
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
markn
All Pro
I think you're right, but I think you also have to accept that hiring an OC could result in a backward step. It could be a "better" OC than BoB and still have a worse outcome. Communication and shared vision become more important the more executive staff you have. But with the right selection there's little doubt our ceiling becomes higher.
noxiousdog
Rookie
Taking out the 97 yard run, he had 11 carries for 65 yards or 5.9 per attempt.
I'd call that ripping off huge chunks, and half were between the hashes.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
& while we're at it lets bring back the wildcat...cause you know that was an offense that was about to take over the world too. Get with the times? Lol is that all you can muster up? So scrap tried and true tenets of winning NFL football b/c you want to see more innovate ways to score? Really? You sound real dumb right now.
A. - I've never called BoB a football messiah, offensive genius, guru or whatever.
B. - NFL offenses are amoeba's period...they all gradually incorporate new elements..but those new elements have to mesh with the base of the offense. That's why there's so many versions of the WCO. BoB's offense is no different. If you lifted up your hate blinders you could actually see that.
C. - If you can't see that BoB does incorporate new elements of offense....then there's nothing else to talk about...You're caught up aesthetic bullshit.
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I’m with you on those points.
I was worried at times that our Oline being thrown so far back so fast was going to crush Deshaun.
Scooter
Funky
You don't have to, it's easy to interpret.
The Texans actually are running the ball better than I thought they would. Shortening the game and playing defense is how they are going to win this yr.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Yeah tell me about it
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
https://twitter.com/JuMosq/status/1050233752654249986
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1050186819248230406
https://twitter.com/fbgchase/status/1048565480099893248
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/...ficulty-jared-goff-drew-brees-patrick-mahomes
You old timers continue to hold on to the legends of Mark Rypien, Joe Flacco, Brad Johnson and crying for the 'glory days' .. I absolutely LOVE the new NFL.
https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1050186819248230406
https://twitter.com/fbgchase/status/1048565480099893248
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/...ficulty-jared-goff-drew-brees-patrick-mahomes
You old timers continue to hold on to the legends of Mark Rypien, Joe Flacco, Brad Johnson and crying for the 'glory days' .. I absolutely LOVE the new NFL.
TexansBull
Hall of Fame
There could be an apology thread in the future.
I have to admit. When Watson broke off that run, I immediately thought poetic justice for the VY walkoff TD and really wanted him to take it the distance.
Texansballer74
The Marine
Nobody claimed any of that about you. You just don't value some members opinions when it comes to Obrien. It's like you don't find any fault in anything he does. Yes he mixes it up sometimes but the fans want consistency. Yes like Steel stated, keeping Watson healthy. But you can do that with the same game plan he displayed last night. That's the creativity we want to see every freaking game whether it works or not.
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badboy
Hall of Fame
The three of us all yelled go for it then looked surprisingly at the others. lol
It's gonna take a little more. This is only the 3rd game the team has scored over 30 points, and in one game the defense basically scored 2 TDs.
It's still a below average offense but showing signs of improving if he continues to use these concepts.
Not exactly the most ringing endorsement if the team's goal is to win a Super Bowl.
Also, why don't these adjustments happen in training camp?
badboy
Hall of Fame
The three of us all yelled go for it then looked surprisingly at the others. lol
Which one? The one allowing Watson to use his natural ability last season, parts of games this season and one last night? OR the other OBrien who doesn't seem sure what to do, call or say?
badboy
Hall of Fame
To add to discussion but no input from me at this time:
Question does our offense have to be one set plan or with #4 could it become more like our defense which moves from scheme to scheme as DC calls it?
rest of long article here https://texanswire.usatoday.com/201...m_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=pos3headline
Question does our offense have to be one set plan or with #4 could it become more like our defense which moves from scheme to scheme as DC calls it?
Watson appears to be healthier and hopefully that allows BOB to be more creative in his use of Watson.
Or it could be that the Tacks suck and the Texans are their Daddy.
Yes. I don't believe he's going to take us where we want to go. He's fine against the lower and mid tier coaches / teams …. but when it comes to beating the good ones , the record speaks for itself.
I believe he's good for one playoff win and then an exit , that's not good enough if the goal is Lombardi Trophy's.
markn
All Pro
It wasn't intended to be a ringing endorsement, just looking for a bit of perspective. I was ready for a new HC by game 3, on reflection I've changed my mind and would suggest a little more patience is appropriate.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
I understand a lot of the things he does within the scope of the game and season..& why they are done...you guys who criticize like to blow off the why as “excuses” and The “why” is where you and I as well as a few others in here butt heads.
BOB REPEATEDLY has stated that anything he does it’s in the best interest of the ....wait for it....TEAM. And from my perspective, that holds true.
It’s in the best interest of the team to not be running a lot of RPO and risk having DW4 potentially running the ball alot; if he gets injured, we’re done..period.
It’s in the best interest of the team to not have his qb dropping back 30 times a game with shotty protection for the same reason above..the best way to prevent that is to aim to stay balanced in your run pass ratio.
It’s in the best interest of the team to play clock as soon as they comfortably can. it puts the pressure on the opposing teams offense to score as time ticks down & they start taking more chances with more passing and deeper routes. That in turn plays right into the strength of your team..your defense and in particular Watt and Clowney.
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