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FIRE O'BRIEN NOW!!!

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thunderkyss said:
I hope that's what we're seeing.



I just hate to think the seasons over, basically before it even started. If we have to wait to next season to see how good this team can be.

We still have 7 games to be played & the playoffs. If Gaine & BO'b went into this season thinking we can be an ok team & make a brief playoff appearance then they need to go.

I'd rather believe they put the best team they felt they could & truly believe they can win it all.

There are a bunch of reasons we see now that are obstacles to winning it all. I get that. But to concede right now doesn't instill that mental toughness you speak of.

The OL we got is the OL we got. Can you build an offense with it. Identify how.

Now I know some of us watched Monday night's game & saw two great talented offensive lines. I saw two coaches coordinate their offenses that helped to their QB get the ball out quickly.

Mix up max protect, moving pockets, bunched receivers, half field concepts, misdirection, etc... etc...

Don't sit your QB on a spot & ring the dinner bell.
Click to expand...

I don't believe this season is over. I do believe we would be in a much better position with an improved o-line. To go all the way we will have to scrap and claw our way there (with the odds against us). With a good o-line we could steamroll our way there.
 
Mr teX said:
It didn’t make sense when he couldn’t field a winning team after 5 years. Regardless of the HC’s strength, he’s responsible for getting the whole team moving in the same direction...Bob seems to be good at that. Kubiak couldn’t do this to save his life...this is what is lost in your logic.
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O'Brien was 4-12 last year. So not sure what direction he was moving in before Crennel built a top 3 defense.

And I still see no direction for the offense. First it was the QB excuse, then now it's the OL. Assuming they fix it next year (doubtful), what will be the excuse?

What is the goal for the offense to look like, exactly?
 
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thunderkyss said:
A little hyperbole, but Kubiak was given a failed expansion team. BO'b was given a failed playoff team.
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O'Brien was given a team 2 years removed from 12-4 that collapsed due to injury issues. "Just needs a QB, no need for a rebuild" was the narrative at the time, so why not bring in a QB guru and offensive genius?

It would be like if the Texans had fired Crennel last year and then giving the new DC all the credit.
 
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TheKDog said:
O'Brien was 4-12 last year. So not sure what direction he was moving in before Crennel built a top 3 defense.

And I still see no direction for the offense. First it was the QB excuse, then now it's the OL. Assuming they fix it next year (doubtful), what will be the excuse?

What is the goal for the offense to look like, exactly?
Click to expand...
What I see is an old school, run first offense that eats up the clock, scores enough to win, but - defense win championships. To execute this offense, he wants a mobile QB who is smart and can make all the throws but will rely on the short and intermediate passing game, with the deep ball used to free up the underside. Ideally maybe a 50-50 run-pass, but leaning toward the run.

I see a clear direction for what he is aiming toward but it is not the high scoring wide open passing game many fans are wanting and seems to be a direction the league is slowly inching toward.

We don't yet have the talent on the offensive line to effectively run this offence, but OB would love to pound an Earl Campbel.
 
thunderkyss said:
the weakest division in the league.
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Maybe not in the near future. And don't look now but the AFCS may get 2 teams in the playoffs this year.

Luck is Luck and that team is getting better every week. And they actually have a HC that knows offense.
The Jags get a competent QB and get its head out of it arse they could really, really good.
And the Tacks have Mariotta, he doesn't scare anyone. And the Tack can take a flying leap at a rolling donut!
 
Uncle Rico said:
That's funny .. I guess Kubiak picked Elway when he won that SuperBowl a few years ago huh? How many championship teams have Obrien. And Gaine been a part of? Bless your heart. But yes give them 5 more years, screw it give them a cool decade, who cares how bad they do. (Since you seem to be convinced it's a forgone conclusion these guys will succeed)

IN WATSON I TRUST
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It's gonna take some time to fix the mess your guy left behind. Can't fix over a decade of failure in one off-season.
 
austins23 said:
Maybe not in the near future. And don't look now but the AFCS may get 2 teams in the playoffs this year.

Luck is Luck and that team is getting better every week. And they actually have a HC that knows offense.
The Jags get a competent QB and get its head out of it arse they could really, really good.
And the Tacks have Mariotta, he doesn't scare anyone. And the Tack can take a flying leap at a rolling donut!
Click to expand...

:sigh:
 
steelbtexan said:
It's gonna take some time to fix the mess your guy left behind. Can't fix over a decade of failure in one off-season.
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You make that statement like the Texans need to rebuild. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I can think of several NFL teams who would love for their previous GM to leave them Watson, Hopkins, Watt, Clowney, Mercilus, Jackson, Joseph, Reader, Covington, McKinney, and Cunningham as their core.

Similar to the Colts making the commitment to protect Luck, Gaine has to take a similar approach to fix the OL and continue to add depth. It's not a Herculean task.
 
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TheKDog said:
O'Brien was 4-12 last year. So not sure what direction he was moving in before Crennel built a top 3 defense.

And I still see no direction for the offense. First it was the QB excuse, then now it's the OL. Assuming they fix it next year (doubtful), what will be the excuse?

What is the goal for the offense to look like, exactly?
Click to expand...

Dude........ stop.

it’s pretty clear you, uncle rico, Scooter and a few others’ criticisms of BoB are purely based on aesthetic, scorned female type of ****. Criticism that’s truly void of any logic or rationale or basic football knowledge that in the grand scheme of things just doesn’t really matter as it pertains to winning games. It’s style over substance for u 4; A loser’s mentality if I ever saw one and reeks of someone whose never played a team sport...& well, Good luck with that.

Dirk Koetter should be available after he finishes bombing out with TB..he’s an offensive coach that also boasts one of the top offenses in the league that has led the bucs to a stellar.................. 3-7 record......maybe Cal will bring him in to score more pts and lose more games so as to appease you morons.

If you can’t see the identity of Bob’s teams and what he wants to try to do on offense.....then it’s obvious you’re not trying to see.....& whether it’s because you’re blinded by your trash stats or you truly just don’t know what the hell youre looking for or at.....it on you dude.

As far as I’m concerned though, your cred is shot and u won’t get another post out of me explaining simple ****.

Good day.
 
TheKDog said:
There's more to an offense than turtle mode. Kubiak offenses actually scored plenty of points
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For sake of this argument.....Kubiak's offense had a fundamentally sound OL and an above average running game.

O'Brien hasn't had this but he's done little to create a better situation. He doesn't have a fundamentally sound offensive scheme, therefore he's had no fundamentally sound OL. Of course, the OL talent is lacking but that argument had legs in years one and two, after that...something stinks, like ineptitude from both the HC and GM. The running game hasn't been figured out b/c there's no OL to truly gauge where the talent for this group is at.

Kubiak's system was successful in spite of him b/c he had the talent in all phases to execute the game plan. When that talent wasn't on the field, then it looked as predictable as O'Brien's and ran it just as stubbornly. I often wondered if Kubiak ran a copy his Denny's Menu over to the opposing HC before the game.

As fans, we'll be forced to watch O'Brien get another crack as HC/OC in 2019. I just hope Cal and Gaine give him as short a leash as possible b/c I can't seriously believe they'd allow him to remain HC through his extension if he blunders again next season on the fundamentals of being an NFL HC.
 
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Mr teX said:
Dude........ stop.

it’s pretty clear you, uncle rico, Scooter and a few others’ criticisms of BoB are purely based on aesthetic, scorned female type of ****. Criticism that’s truly void of any logic or rationale or basic football knowledge that in the grand scheme of things just doesn’t really matter as it pertains to winning games. It’s style over substance for u 4; A loser’s mentality if I ever saw one and reeks of someone whose never played a team sport...& well, Good luck with that.

Dirk Koetter should be available after he finishes bombing out with TB..he’s an offensive coach that also boasts one of the top offenses in the league that has led the bucs to a stellar.................. 3-7 record......maybe Cal will bring him in to score more pts and lose more games so as to appease you morons.

If you can’t see the identity of Bob’s teams and what he wants to try to do on offense.....then it’s obvious you’re not trying to see.....& whether it’s because you’re blinded by your trash stats or you truly just don’t know what the hell youre looking for or at.....it on you dude.

As far as I’m concerned though, your cred is shot and u won’t get another post out of me explaining simple ****.

Good day.
Click to expand...

As far as I can tell, O'briens offense involves just surviving so the defense can get back on the field. Aka turtle mode the whole game.

The idea that he wants a low scoring running offense by design is laughable. He came from the New England system. What an unbelievable new narrative that is.

The fact is he has failed badly in building a good offense and is just running Lamar up the middle to be safe.
 
Number19 said:
What I see is an old school, run first offense that eats up the clock, scores enough to win, but - defense win championships. To execute this offense, he wants a mobile QB who is smart and can make all the throws but will rely on the short and intermediate passing game, with the deep ball used to free up the underside. Ideally maybe a 50-50 run-pass, but leaning toward the run.

I see a clear direction for what he is aiming toward but it is not the high scoring wide open passing game many fans are wanting and seems to be a direction the league is slowly inching toward.

We don't yet have the talent on the offensive line to effectively run this offence, but OB would love to pound an Earl Campbel.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't believe he wanted to build an old school offense.

He was billed as a QB guru and offensive genius, yet he just wants to run for 3 yards every time?

Besides, the run offense absolutely sucks. It's ranked 30 by dvoa. The offense is actually better when it's Deshaun passing to talented receivers, but O'Brien is too much of a turtle to keep at that.
 
OptimisticTexan said:
For sake of this argument.....Kubiak's offense had a fundamentally sound OL and an above average running game.

O'Brien hasn't had this but he's done little to create a better situation. He doesn't have a fundamentally sound offensive scheme, therefore he's had no fundamentally sound OL. Of course, the OL talent is lacking but that argument had legs in years one and two, after that...something stinks, like ineptitude from both the HC and GM. The running game hasn't been figured out b/c there's no OL to truly gauge where the talent for this group is at.

Kubiak's system was successful in spite of him b/c he had the talent in all phases to execute the game plan. When that talent wasn't on the field, then it looked as predictable as O'Brien's and ran it just as stubbornly. I often wondered if Kubiak ran a copy his Denny's Menu over to the opposing HC before the game.

As fans, we'll be forced to watch O'Brien get another crack as HC/OC in 2019. I just hope Cal and Gaine give him as short a leash as possible b/c I can't seriously believe they'd allow him to remain HC through his extension if he blunders again next season on the fundamentals of being an NFL HC.
Click to expand...

Agreed except the HC is responsible for evaluating talent as well. And for starting the right guys. Kubiak was a good talent evaluator.
 
TheKDog said:
I honestly don't believe he wanted to build an old school offense.

He was billed as a QB guru and offensive genius, yet he just wants to run for 3 yards every time?

Besides, the run offense absolutely sucks. It's ranked 30 by dvoa. The offense is actually better when it's Deshaun passing to talented receivers, but O'Brien is too much of a turtle to keep at that.
Click to expand...

Brian Billick was the Vikings OC for four years and got the reputation as an offensive guru. He was hired by the Ravens and even though he won a Super Bowl, he was never able to duplicate the success of the Vikings' offense. In fact, his Ravens' offenses were consistently some of the worst offenses in the NFL. Also, in nine seasons with the Ravens, he only won more than ten games twice.

At this point, unless he hires a competent OC, my expectations of O'Brien is he will be more Brian Billick than Bill Belichick.
 
Earl34 said:
Brian Billick was the Vikings OC for four years and got the reputation as an offensive guru. He was hired by the Ravens and even though he won a Super Bowl, he was never able to duplicate the success of the Vikings' offense. In fact, his Ravens' offenses were consistently some of the worst offenses in the NFL. Also, in nine seasons with the Ravens, he only won more than ten games twice.

At this point, unless he hires a competent OC, my expectations of O'Brien is he will be more Brian Billick than Bill Belichick.
Click to expand...

We shall see,

I would take a SB win.

BTW, I never understood why Billick never got another shot. I mean guys like Shurmur/Carroll/Gruden/Reid/Jackson/Marrone and the man himself Belichick got 2nd chances.

Billick accomplished as much if not more than most of those guys.
 
steelbtexan said:
We shall see,

I would take a SB win.

BTW, I never understood why Billick never got another shot. I mean guys like Shurmur/Carroll/Gruden/Reid/Jackson/Marrone and the man himself Belichick got 2nd chances.

Billick accomplished as much if not more than most of those guys.
Click to expand...

Like Cowher, Could just be a case where he didn't want another shot despite his name being out there every year.
 
TheKDog said:
I honestly don't believe he wanted to build an old school offense.

He was billed as a QB guru and offensive genius, yet he just wants to run for 3 yards every time?

Besides, the run offense absolutely sucks. It's ranked 30 by dvoa. The offense is actually better when it's Deshaun passing to talented receivers, but O'Brien is too much of a turtle to keep at that.
Click to expand...
Don't know where this comes from, but the primary discussion this year has been the lack of talent on our OL and whether Deshaun can stay healthy for the whole season. And although he continued to play he has had a severe injury to his lungs. Bob's strategy this season has primarily been to protect his QB and keep him on the field, and this strategy has brought us to 7-3 and a strong possibility of a divisional title. I don't think most fans have a problem with sucess.
 
Number19 said:
Don't know where this comes from, but the primary discussion this year has been the lack of talent on our OL and whether Deshaun can stay healthy for the whole season. And although he continued to play he has had a severe injury to his lungs. Bob's strategy this season has primarily been to protect his QB and keep him on the field, and this strategy has brought us to 7-3 and a strong possibility of a divisional title. I don't think most fans have a problem with sucess.
Click to expand...

Fans that haven't prejudged BOB.

BTW, If I was in BOB's shoes I would be running the exact same offense.

#1 priority this yr is keeping Watson healthy behind this OL. So far minus the punctured lung (LOL) BOB has accomplished my goals for this season.

1. Keeping Watson healthy
2. Putting a winning team on the field despite their shortcomings in talent.
 
The scorn for Bill O'Brien wouldn't be nearly as bad if people didn't fellate him as a savior and a guru.

Sorry. You put those expectations on him. Don't be pissed if people are pissed when they're not met.
 
steelbtexan said:
Fans that haven't prejudged BOB.

BTW, If I was in BOB's shoes I would be running the exact same offense.
Click to expand...

You know I love me some Bill O'Brien. But I don't understand how Mancz isn't starting. I don't understand the thinking behind running WR bubble screens every week but never running a TE or RB screen. I don't understand running the jet sweep two or three times a game but never a sweep, toss, or even a couple of wheel routes (with the guy running the Jet sweep).

If my #1 priority was to protect my QB, you'd see more creativity in the run/screen game before I call a QB option
 
thunderkyss said:
You know I love me some Bill O'Brien. But I don't understand how Mancz isn't starting. I don't understand the thinking behind running WR bubble screens every week but never running a TE or RB screen. I don't understand running the jet sweep two or three times a game but never a sweep, toss, or even a couple of wheel routes (with the guy running the Jet sweep).

If my #1 priority was to protect my QB, you'd see more creativity in the run/screen game before I call a QB option
Click to expand...

You really think a toss sweep would work with this OT/TE group?

How many screens do you want to run each week? How many sreens to the RB? WR? TE?

Traditionally teams only typically run 3-4 screens per game at the most and BOB uses them to get the ball into his playmakers hands. Would you rather those 3-4 plays a game have the ball in Hopkins/WFV hands? Or would you rather those plays be called for Miller/Griffin?
 
steelbtexan said:
You really think a toss sweep would work with this OT/TE group?
Click to expand...

Yes. If the jet sweep is going to work, a toss or sweep should work.

steelbtexan said:
How many screens do you want to run each week? How many sreens to the RB? WR? TE?

Traditionally teams only typically run 3-4 screens per game at the most and BOB uses them to get the ball into his playmakers hands. Would you rather those 3-4 plays a game have the ball in Hopkins/WFV hands? Or would you rather those plays be called for Miller/Griffin?
Click to expand...

I'd mix it up, yes. Helps us not to be so predictable.
 
thunderkyss said:
Yes. If the jet sweep is going to work, a toss or sweep should work.



I'd mix it up, yes. Helps us not to be so predictable.
Click to expand...

The Jet sweep is a trick play, the toss sweep not so much. Bad idea with these edge blockers.

I would rather get the ball in my playmakers hands if I'm going to run screens. Miller/the Jordan's pale in comparison when it comes to playmaking compared to Hopkins/Fuller.
 
Assuming BOB will not be fired, will he be forced to work with a good OC? That's a more realistic hope, IMO. May he turn the offense over to a competent OC the way Crennell runs the D without interference.
 
steelbtexan said:
The Jet sweep is a trick play, the toss sweep not so much. Bad idea with these edge blockers.

I would rather get the ball in my playmakers hands if I'm going to run screens. Miller/the Jordan's pale in comparison when it comes to playmaking compared to Hopkins/Fuller.
Click to expand...

Exactly. We routinely pick up 4+ yds when we’ve run those bubble screens to Nuk/WFV/Thomas/Coutee.

On the other hand I can only think of 1 instance this season where we got a positive play throwing a screen to Miller or the TE’s. Hell didn’t Watson throw a pick just last week trying to run a screen to Miller?
 
Seegara said:
Assuming BOB will not be fired, will he be forced to work with a good OC? That's a more realistic hope, IMO. May he turn the offense over to a competent OC the way Crennell runs the D without interference.
Click to expand...
I sure hope so. If he proved anything this seasons it’s that the guys buy into his garbage and he’s a players coach. If he can bring in a legit OC I think we will see some of his game day decisions improve.
 
steelbtexan said:
The Jet sweep is a trick play, the toss sweep not so much. Bad idea with these edge blockers.

I would rather get the ball in my playmakers hands if I'm going to run screens. Miller/the Jordan's pale in comparison when it comes to playmaking compared to Hopkins/Fuller.
Click to expand...

Mr teX said:
Exactly. We routinely pick up 4+ yds when we’ve run those bubble screens to Nuk/WFV/Thomas/Coutee.

On the other hand I can only think of 1 instance this season where we got a positive play throwing a screen to Miller or the TE’s. Hell didn’t Watson throw a pick just last week trying to run a screen to Miller?
Click to expand...

I am really, really trying to be objective. But it doesn't really sound like you guys care. BO'b is right, regardless. Let's protect our QB, but not run any screen passes.

It just doesn't make sense. I know we have limitations. I know you're not happy with our OL. But to not be able to figure out how to run a screen pass... sorry, but you're the opposite extreme of the anybodybutOBrien crowd.
 
Mr teX said:
Exactly. We routinely pick up 4+ yds when we’ve run those bubble screens to Nuk/WFV/Thomas/Coutee.

On the other hand I can only think of 1 instance this season where we got a positive play throwing a screen to Miller or the TE’s. Hell didn’t Watson throw a pick just last week trying to run a screen to Miller?
Click to expand...

True,

But TK wants to try something different.

He wants to have an offense like the Chiefs/Rams etc... nevermind the talent level isn't there to run that type of offense.
 
thunderkyss said:
I am really, really trying to be objective. But it doesn't really sound like you guys care. BO'b is right, regardless. Let's protect our QB, but not run any screen passes.

It just doesn't make sense. I know we have limitations. I know you're not happy with our OL. But to not be able to figure out how to run a screen pass... sorry, but you're the opposite extreme of the anybodybutOBrien crowd.
Click to expand...

They do run screen passes, usually to the WR's because they're more dynamic than Miller/Griffin. They tried to run a screen to Miller last week and it got picked off inside the Texans 20. In short the screen pass didn't work and turned into a disaster. Yet you want to see more screens to Miller. SMH
 
thunderkyss said:
I am really, really trying to be objective. But it doesn't really sound like you guys care. BO'b is right, regardless. Let's protect our QB, but not run any screen passes.

It just doesn't make sense. I know we have limitations. I know you're not happy with our OL. But to not be able to figure out how to run a screen pass... sorry, but you're the opposite extreme of the anybodybutOBrien crowd.
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To run a RB screen you have to have bockers which usually means OLmen... do we have any that have the feet to get out there?
 
JB said:
To run a RB screen you have to have bockers which usually means OLmen... do we have any that have the feet to get out there?
Click to expand...

Good question, I know Fulton and Davenport really struggle in space. Kelemete has avg feet. Martin/Lamm are above avg athletes so they should be good on screens.

Overall asking this OL to execute screens isn't a good idea at all.
 
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JB said:
To run a RB screen you have to have bockers which usually means OLmen... do we have any that have the feet to get out there?
Click to expand...


I haven't been paying attention this week …. who's starting where after all the injuries last week ?!

Clowney and Watt gonna play two ways ? Watt at LG and Clowney at LT ?!
 
Seegara said:
Assuming BOB will not be fired, will he be forced to work with a good OC? That's a more realistic hope, IMO. May he turn the offense over to a competent OC the way Crennell runs the D without interference.
Click to expand...

Why, so he can focus on his awesome super great strengths as a game prepper and game manager?
 
steelbtexan said:
They do run screen passes, usually to the WR's because they're more dynamic than Miller/Griffin. They tried to run a screen to Miller last week and it got picked off inside the Texans 20. In short the screen pass didn't work and turned into a disaster. Yet you want to see more screens to Miller. SMH
Click to expand...

They tried to throw a pass to Hopkins in the middle of the field that got picked as well.

Should we stop throwing to Hopkins I the middle of the field?
 
JB said:
To run a RB screen you have to have bockers which usually means OLmen... do we have any that have the feet to get out there?
Click to expand...
Are you implying you need OL w/ good feet to run a RB screen, but it's not necessary for a WR screen? I think the debate Steel & TK are having is why does BOB almost exclusively run screens to the WRs only, why not RB or TE screens as well?
 
steelbtexan said:
You really think a toss sweep would work with this OT/TE group?

How many screens do you want to run each week? How many sreens to the RB? WR? TE?

Traditionally teams only typically run 3-4 screens per game at the most and BOB uses them to get the ball into his playmakers hands. Would you rather those 3-4 plays a game have the ball in Hopkins/WFV hands? Or would you rather those plays be called for Miller/Griffin?
Click to expand...

With the pressure the defense puts on the oline, I think it's only natural to run screens to the running back. Also, how many times he's going to run the ball out of the 3 tight end set? How many times he's going to declare his runs/passes based on his personel grouping? Again, no mirror plays at all.
 
dream_team said:
Are you implying you need OL w/ good feet to run a RB screen, but it's not necessary for a WR screen? I think the debate Steel & TK are having is why does BOB almost exclusively run screens to the WRs only, why not RB or TE screens as well?
Click to expand...
Not saying this is the case, but sometimes you want to hold certain plays and/or strategy back for key points in key games.
 
So what exactly is the debate here anyway? Do some of you actually believe that OB doesn’t run RB/TE screens is because he’s never heard of the concept? Really?
 
dream_team said:
Are you implying you need OL w/ good feet to run a RB screen, but it's not necessary for a WR screen? I think the debate Steel & TK are having is why does BOB almost exclusively run screens to the WRs only, why not RB or TE screens as well?
Click to expand...

They are and yeah you do... on RB screens the WR's are normally taking CB's down the field and then blocking. You gots to have OL leading the way for a RB screen to a much greater extent
 
JB said:
They are and yeah you do... on RB screens the WR's are normally taking CB's down the field and then blocking. You gots to have OL leading the way for a RB screen to a much greater extent
Click to expand...
True for a standard RB screen. You could clear the zone by sending the WRs long and/or on routes to the opposite side of the field, then swing the RB into the flat without setting up a wall with your O-line.
 
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OptimisticTexan said:
For sake of this argument.....Kubiak's offense had a fundamentally sound OL and an above average running game.

O'Brien hasn't had this but he's done little to create a better situation. He doesn't have a fundamentally sound offensive scheme, therefore he's had no fundamentally sound OL. Of course, the OL talent is lacking but that argument had legs in years one and two, after that...something stinks, like ineptitude from both the HC and GM. The running game hasn't been figured out b/c there's no OL to truly gauge where the talent for this group is at.

Kubiak's system was successful in spite of him b/c he had the talent in all phases to execute the game plan. When that talent wasn't on the field, then it looked as predictable as O'Brien's and ran it just as stubbornly. I often wondered if Kubiak ran a copy his Denny's Menu over to the opposing HC before the game.

As fans, we'll be forced to watch O'Brien get another crack as HC/OC in 2019. I just hope Cal and Gaine give him as short a leash as possible b/c I can't seriously believe they'd allow him to remain HC through his extension if he blunders again next season on the fundamentals of being an NFL HC.
Click to expand...


The reason for that is because Kubiak had a strategic goal and plan in mind. He built his offensive line for that specific reason. Obrien on the other hand keeps changing things up too much.
 
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