Carson Wentz, My #1 QB going into 2015 college season

[PapaL]

Long snapper = LOL

Jones point still stands. Remember he has played on great teams and knows what one looks like talentwise.

Remember the Giants losing a playoff game in 2003 because of Trey Junkin's errant snap on a FG? LOL that.

Our 3 to 4 vs the following:
Chicago Bears 1
New Orleans Saints 1
Washington Redskins 1
San Diego Chargers 1
Jacksonville Jaguars 1
Detroit Lions 2
San Francisco 49ers 2
Tennessee Titans 2

Hell even Pittsburgh had 3. They must have serious talent issues as well.

 

[JB]

Just pointing out this is another surgery for Romo who has been under the knife more than his fair share and he's now 36 not 24. Another reason to contemplate life after Romo which is coming sooner not later.

Going by the post you quoted alluded to your thinking that Wentz would indeed be selected by the Cowboys because of this surgery. Why tie that question to this link of yours otherwise? Yeah his end is coming sooner rather than later as is the case with most, but they are still thinking he's good for 3-4 more and will not burn #4 on a QB imo

 

[steelbtexan]

Remember the Giants losing a playoff game in 2003 because of Trey Junkin's errant snap on a FG? LOL that.

Our 3 to 4 vs the following:
Chicago Bears 1
New Orleans Saints 1
Washington Redskins 1
San Diego Chargers 1
Jacksonville Jaguars 1
Detroit Lions 2
San Francisco 49ers 2
Tennessee Titans 2

Hell even Pittsburgh had 3. They must have serious talent issues as well.

I guess you're right when you put all pro value to a long snapper. Now I understand why all of those teams except the Redskins missed the playoffs. The Redskins were in a division that rivaled the AFC South for worse division in the NFL.

No offense I value Sean Jones opinion much more than I do yours.

 

[JB]

I guess you're right when you put all pro value to a long snapper. Now I understand why all of those teams except the Redskins missed the playoffs. The Redskins were in a division that rivaled the AFC South for worse division in the NFL.

No offense I value Sean Jones opinion much more than I do yours.

Don't pro bowl rosters usually come mostly from winning teams? I think Sean Jones opinions towards the Texans are still bitter because he wasn't hired by them. That said, we all know that the team needs depth... just trying to get you to realize that most other teams do as well

 

[steelbtexan]

Going by the post you quoted alluded to your thinking that Wentz would indeed be selected by the Cowboys because of this surgery. Why tie that question to this link of yours otherwise? Yeah his end is coming sooner rather than later as is the case with most, but they are still thinking he's good for 3-4 more and will not burn #4 on a QB imo

I've heard that Romo broke his collar bone in more than one place, which increases the likelyhood of him breaking it again.

If I'm Jerrah I pick either Goff of Wentz if they are there and prepare for life without Romo. Hopefully if I'm Jerrah I'm not picking high enough to get a franchise QB for the next decade.

 

[JB]

I've heard that Romo broke his collar bone in more than one place, which increases the likelyhood of him breaking it again.

If I'm Jerrah I pick either Goff of Wentz if they are there and prepare for life without Romo. Hopefully if I'm Jerrah I'm not picking high enough to get a franchise QB for the next decade.

If you read the link, he's having surgery to lessen the likelihood of it occurring again. I think they have bigger holes to fill and will draft an immediate impact player with #4 and maybe try to trade back into the 1st or use the 2nd round to get their QB to groom

 

[steelbtexan]

Don't pro bowl rosters usually come mostly from winning teams? I think Sean Jones opinions towards the Texans are still bitter because he wasn't hired by them. That said, we all know that the team needs depth... just trying to get you to realize that most other teams do as well

I didn't know Jones wanted to be hired by the Texans. I thought he was a Raider FO type guy. Still doesn't make what he said untrue if you want to be a Steeler/Packer/Seahawk Pat type org....

Look at the beloved Broncos and model how they built their roster and try to emulate them. It does cost more $$$$ to build a team that way though. Good thing is McNair/Smith have plenty of cap room to spend this yr in FA. Hopefully they spend it and spend it wisely. Unlike the Rahim Moore type FA signings.

 

[thunderkyss]

I've heard that Romo broke his collar bone in more than one place, which increases the likelyhood of him breaking it again.

If I'm Jerrah I pick either Goff of Wentz if they are there and prepare for life without Romo. Hopefully if I'm Jerrah I'm not picking high enough to get a franchise QB for the next decade.

If I'm Jerrah, I sign Manziel Quick. & just tell him to watch Romo.

 

[steelbtexan]

If you read the link, he's having surgery to lessen the likelihood of it occurring again. I think they have bigger holes to fill and will draft an immediate impact player with #4 and maybe try to trade back into the 1st or use the 2nd round to get their QB to groom

We need to get CND's opinion on this.

Breaking it twice in a season is a forebearer of things to come. IMHO, although I will admit that I could be wrong on this.

 

[JB]

We need to get CND's opinion on this.

Breaking it twice in a season is a forebearer of things to come. IMHO, although I will admit that I could be wrong on this.

He posted, or someone did the picture of a full plate inserted along the bone... makes it seem to me would make it hard to break again

 

[thunderkyss]

He posted, or someone did the picture of a full plate inserted along the bone... makes it seem to me would make it hard to break again

Like Wolverine

 

[TexansSeminole]

I've heard that Romo broke his collar bone in more than one place, which increases the likelyhood of him breaking it again.

If I'm Jerrah I pick either Goff of Wentz if they are there and prepare for life without Romo. Hopefully if I'm Jerrah I'm not picking high enough to get a franchise QB for the next decade.

The more I think about it the more it makes sense for them to take a QB there at 4. They'll have a shot at 1 of 2 good prospects most likely and they won't have to trade up to be in that position. They use one pick, although a very high pick, to try to prepare for life without Romo when he retires or is injured again.

If this were the Texans and not the Cowboys, I think most of us would be on board with that.

 

[JB]

The more I think about it the more it makes sense for them to take a QB there at 4. They'll have a shot at 1 of 2 good prospects most likely and they won't have to trade up to be in that position. They use one pick, although a very high pick, to try to prepare for life without Romo when he retires or is injured again.

If this were the Texans and not the Cowboys, I think most of us would be on board with that.

It might make sense to you... but I don't think it'll happen. I've not seen anywhere but here on this board that thinks they will. And the Texans and Cowboys are a long way from having the same needs. Cowboys need a backup QB, I don't see them spending #4 there for 3-4 years down the road

 

[Texian]

Going by the post you quoted alluded to your thinking that Wentz would indeed be selected by the Cowboys because of this surgery. Why tie that question to this link of yours otherwise? Yeah his end is coming sooner rather than later as is the case with most, but they are still thinking he's good for 3-4 more and will not burn #4 on a QB imo

That's your interpretation not mine. Again I was just pointing out ANOTHER reason to go with so many others why the Cowboys could strongly consider drafting Wentz and trading up to make sure they get him. If you're wanting me to give you my main reason why the Cowboys would strongly consider trading up and drafting Wentz, it is because they spent an entire week coaching the kid and it was clear they liked what they saw. I expect you will want to disagree and that's fine.

 

[TexansSeminole]

It might make sense to you... but I don't think it'll happen. I've not seen anywhere but here on this board that thinks they will. And the Texans and Cowboys are a long way from having the same needs. Cowboys need a backup QB, I don't see them spending #4 there for 3-4 years down the road

You assume they'll be at #4 or in position to draft a top QB prospect in the next 4 years. That may not be the case. I also never said the Texans and Cowboys have the same needs. I said that if the Texans had a QB of Romo's age and history, I think most of us would be on board with taking one of the top 2 QB prospects with the #4 pick.

"The Cowboys need a backup quarterback" is an entirely incomplete statement. Yes, they need a backup but they also need an eventual replacement for Romo. Saying he can play at a high level for 3-5 years is one thing but there is no guarantee that he will. Likely, he won't, in my opinion.

Question: What do you make of the notion that drafting a qb at #4 is a wasted pick since he will not play over Romo and the cowboys window is closing for him?

Babe Laufenberg: It is an investment, not a wasted pick. Here is the bottom line- if Jerry Jones (by all accounts) had to be ducted taped to his chair two years ago and waterboarded to NOT select Manziel, then why would it stop you from taking a QB in this draft? Tony Romo has added a back surgery, two broken collarbones, and 2 years of age to an already ailing spine. He will be 36 next year. If not now, when?

Link

Mayock makes my exact same point in this video.

There are more articles and videos of people saying this same thing, so you aren't looking very hard if you've only seen it here.

Jerry Jones has said both that he would feel comfortable taking a QB at #4 but also that they don't need to.

Obviously, the point can be made either way, but to act like it's a far fetched idea is incorrect.

 

[JB]

You assume they'll be at #4 or in position to draft a top QB prospect in the next 4 years.
Jerry Jones has said both that he would feel comfortable taking a QB at #4 but also that they don't need to.

Obviously, the point can be made either way, but to act like it's a far fetched idea is incorrect.

Only time will tell. As of now, my opinion is that they won't use #4 on a QB. They may very well trade down even. It's all a smoke screen at this point

 

[PapaL]

I guess you're right when you put all pro value to a long snapper. Now I understand why all of those teams except the Redskins missed the playoffs. The Redskins were in a division that rivaled the AFC South for worse division in the NFL.

No offense I value Sean Jones opinion much more than I do yours.

Did you have an actual point of was this lack of talent spiel just another thinly veiled attack on Rick Smith?

Texans didn't have anyone named to the pro-bowl; Weeks was.
Talent level blows; middle of pack.
What's next the next argument, we suck at drafting or Clowney is bust?

 

[TexansSeminole]

Only time will tell. As of now, my opinion is that they won't use #4 on a QB. They may very well trade down even. It's all a smoke screen at this point

No doubt, I don't take anything a GM says now seriously, only pointed out that Jerry made comments both ways to show he's blowing smoke both ways.

 

[infantrycak]

You assume they'll be at #4 or in position to draft a top QB prospect in the next 4 years. .

No such assumption at all. It's a judged opinion of Jerry Jones as a Cowboys 2nd fan. Jerry loves Romo and thinks his team is much closer than the record reflected this year. Kind of like McNair after 2-14 (and he was right). He doesn't just want a SB, he wants a SB with Romo. So he'll use the 1st to build the team around Romo for the time Romo has left rather than in his mind feeling like he is giving up on Romo and building the team for his departure by drafting a guy who adds nothing to Romo's team.

And remember Romo was undrafted. Jerry's not going to think he can only replace him with a top 5 QB.

 

[TexansSeminole]

No such assumption at all. It's a judged opinion of Jerry Jones as a Cowboys 2nd fan. Jerry loves Romo and thinks his team is much closer than the record reflected this year. Kind of like McNair after 2-14 (and he was right). He doesn't just want a SB, he wants a SB with Romo. So he'll use the 1st to build the team around Romo for the time Romo has left rather than in his mind feeling like he is giving up on Romo and building the team for his departure by drafting a guy who adds nothing to Romo's team.

And remember Romo was undrafted. Jerry's not going to think he can only replace him with a top 5 QB.

The quoted statement was that JB didn't "see them spending a #4 there for 3-4 years down the road." That is the assumption I was referring to.

I get both sides of the argument, I won't be surprised either way.

 

[bah007]

One thing that people aren't mentioning is that the Cowboys likely have Romo for three more years whether they want him or not, unless he decides to retire. With his contract structure, they aren't likely to part with him until after the 2018 season.

The reason that is important is because that means if they draft a QB in the first then they will have three options:

-Get rid of Romo at some point and take on a ton of dead money against the cap. For example, he literally can't be moved this season. And next season they would only get back about $5M of his $24M salary.

-Pay Romo huge money to sit on the bench.

-Sit the rookie for the majority of his rookie contract and only have about one season as a starter before they need to decide whether or not to pick up his option, which increases his salary significantly.

I think they are far more likely to try to build the team around Romo for the remainder of his career and look for a QB in the 2018 or 2019 draft. 2018 would give the rookie a minimum of one year learning behind Romo before stepping on the field, two years if they let Romo finish out the remainder of the contract.

 

[JB]

You assume they'll be at #4 or in position to draft a top QB prospect in the next 4 years.

The quoted statement was that JB didn't "see them spending a #4 there for 3-4 years down the road." That is the assumption I was referring to.

I get both sides of the argument, I won't be surprised either way.

Ahh, but you erroneously assumed I was making an assumption that they would have another top 5 pick in 3-4 years. I was just referring to the length of time they expect Romo to perform at a level that will take them to the SB and a rookie QB would be sitting

 

[TexansSeminole]

No such assumption at all. It's a judged opinion of Jerry Jones as a Cowboys 2nd fan. Jerry loves Romo and thinks his team is much closer than the record reflected this year. Kind of like McNair after 2-14 (and he was right). He doesn't just want a SB, he wants a SB with Romo. So he'll use the 1st to build the team around Romo for the time Romo has left rather than in his mind feeling like he is giving up on Romo and building the team for his departure by drafting a guy who adds nothing to Romo's team.

And remember Romo was undrafted. Jerry's not going to think he can only replace him with a top 5 QB.

The quoted statement was that JB didn't "see them spending a #4 there for 3-4 years down the road." That is the assumption I was referring to.

I get both sides of the argument, I won't be surprised either way.

Ahh, but you erroneously assumed I was making an assumption that they would have another top 5 pick in 3-4 years. I was just referring to the length of time they expect Romo to perform at a level that will take them to the SB and a rookie QB would be sitting

I apologize. I may have read it wrong. Either way, it was a jump off point for me to make the point that they may not get this opportunity again anytime soon.

Don't forget though that the rookie only sits if Romo is playing. If Romo gets injured again, they put in their backup (rookie or 2nd year, etc) and get him some valuable play time. Not to mention, they're whole season isn't completely over.

 

[infantrycak]

Don't forget though that the rookie only sits if Romo is playing.

Not necessarily.

Not to mention, they're whole season isn't completely over.

To avoid this I think they'll look for a veteran backup.

 

[Texian]

Sit the rookie for the majority of his rookie contract and only have about one season as a starter before they need to decide whether or not to pick up his option, which increases his salary significantly.

A 5 year rookie contract would avg out to to roughly what you would pay a good backup QB See Amari Cooper http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/amari-cooper/ They could keep Romo for 2 years and cut him 2018 and save $15 MILLION in cap space in 2018. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/tony-romo/

One good hit on that surgically repaired spine and Romo is a piece of Garlic Toast. He doesn't practice a full schedule now because of his spine.

 

[bah007]

A 5 year rookie contract would avg out to to roughly what you would pay a good backup QB See Amari Cooper http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/oakland-raiders/amari-cooper/ They could keep Romo for 2 years and cut him 2018 and save $15 MILLION in cap space in 2018. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/tony-romo/

One good hit on that surgically repaired spine and Romo is a piece of Garlic Toast. He doesn't practice a full schedule now because of his spine.

The only issue with the rookie contract is the fifth year option. It increases the player's salary significantly. And it's a risky move to make that investment if you haven't seen quite enough from the player to make you comfortable.

They would save $15M on Romo's cap hit by cutting him in 2018 but they would also have to eat $9M. Maybe they decide that's worth it. But maybe not.

I'm just bringing a different point of view to the discussion. If I were in charge of the Cowboys I'd be looking at Goff or Wentz. Because I feel very strongly about both of those guys being franchise caliber QBs.

But I have the feeling that the Cowboys think they are better than they really are. And when the time comes they will look at what they have invested in Romo and a couple of the older veterans, and decide that they need to make an effort to build this team up for a shot at a championship instead of investing for the future.

 

[xtruroyaltyx]

No such assumption at all. It's a judged opinion of Jerry Jones as a Cowboys 2nd fan. Jerry loves Romo and thinks his team is much closer than the record reflected this year. Kind of like McNair after 2-14 (and he was right). He doesn't just want a SB, he wants a SB with Romo. So he'll use the 1st to build the team around Romo for the time Romo has left rather than in his mind feeling like he is giving up on Romo and building the team for his departure by drafting a guy who adds nothing to Romo's team.

And remember Romo was undrafted. Jerry's not going to think he can only replace him with a top 5 QB.

I agree.


The only way I think they'd take a QB is if they just had a guy there that they belived was an absolute can't miss stud. I don't think they'll fee that way about any qb that may be there so I don't think they take one either.


I could see Jerry Going after RG3 tbh.

 

[Marshall]

I guess you're right when you put all pro value to a long snapper. Now I understand why all of those teams except the Redskins missed the playoffs. The Redskins were in a division that rivaled the AFC South for worse division in the NFL.

No offense I value Sean Jones opinion much more than I do yours.

Wrong Jones. I was thinking Shirley Jones...

 

[TexansSeminole]

Not necessarily.

In their situation, certainly the only way another QB plays is if Romo is injured and that QB would be their #4 pick if they go that route. No way they start a veteran over a #4 pick, especially the longer he's there in their meeting rooms and on the practice field. Think about the veterans available for the picking. We've been over this, there aren't many.

 

[thunderkyss]

I can see it playing out both ways. So it really comes down to whether the Cowboys think like you, or the other guy.

I personally believe Jerry will shoot for a Super Bowl, he'll take the best player he can in the first & second, then a guy like Coker in the third.

That's if they aren't already in love with Kellen Moore.

 

[steelbtexan]

Did you have an actual point of was this lack of talent spiel just another thinly veiled attack on Rick Smith?

Texans didn't have anyone named to the pro-bowl; Weeks was.
Talent level blows; middle of pack.
What's next the next argument, we suck at drafting or Clowney is bust?

Hey: Yhis was Sean Jones, a multiple time pro bowler/SB wimmer, who worked in the Raiders FO, not me saying this.

Maybe you're a little defensive?

 

[PapaL]

Hey: Yhis was Sean Jones, a multiple time pro bowler/SB wimmer, who worked in the Raiders FO, not me saying this.

Maybe you're a little defensive?

Or maybe your assertion that a pro-bowl long snapper = LOL is just as weak of an argument as the lack of talent one.

 

[steelbtexan]

Or maybe your assertion that a pro-bowl long snapper = LOL is just as weak of an argument as the lack of talent one.

Yep, cant get over Jones saying this.

Yes, I consider long snappers to be fungible.

 

[ChampionTexan]

A 5 year rookie contract would avg out to to roughly what you would pay a good backup QB

The significant difference is the price of a good backup QB doesn't also include using a top 5 draft pick on him. If Jerry & Co. truly believe they're close (whether they should or not), it's going to be hard to use that pick on someone you hope won't be productive for a year or three.

 

[Texian]

The significant difference is the price of a good backup QB doesn't also include using a top 5 draft pick on him. If Jerry & Co. truly believe they're close (whether they should or not), it's going to be hard to use that pick on someone you hope won't be productive for a year or three.

As is most often the case, the guys you draft today are usually not productive for a couple of years at least (Brown, Jackson). In 5, 10, 15 years from now this is a moot point you're just glad you did.

 

[infantrycak]

As is most often the case, the guys you draft today are usually not productive for a couple of years at least (Brown, Jackson).

Riding the pine and being starters who have not reached their full potential are not the same thing at all.

 

[ChampionTexan]

As is most often the case, the guys you draft today are usually not productive for a couple of years at least (Brown, Jackson).

One of the least accurate statements I've seen made on this board in quite a while.

The last 10 #4 overall picks, and the # of games they started their rookie year:
2015 - Amari Cooper - 15
2014 - Sammy Watkins - 16
2013 - Lane Johnson - 16
2012 - Matt Kalil -16
2011 - A.J. Green - 15
2010 - Trent Williams - 13
2009 - Aaron Curry - 11
2008 - Darren McFadden - 5
2007 - Gaines Adams - 8
2006 - D'Brickashaw Ferguson - 16

Even the guys who ended up sucking (Curry, Adams) came in with the expectation (and opportunity) to be productive immediately. Watkins, Cooper and Green averaged 67 receptions and 1,036 receiving yards in their rookie seasons, with the lowest reception total being 65 and the lowest yardage number being 982. Matt Kalil made the Pro Bowl his rookie season (coincidentally after Trent Williams got hurt in a fight and had to be replaced).

 

[Texian]

One of the least accurate statements I've seen made on this board in quite a while.

The keyword you're looking for, your word choice not mine, is PRODUCTIVE. Starting is one thing, being highly productive is another. I repeat, in 5, 10, 15 years from now this is a moot point. You're just really glad that when you had the chance to get a franchise QB, YOU DID! And very thankful you weren't suffering from tunnel vision at the time.

 

[ChampionTexan]

The keyword you're looking for, your word choice not mine, is PRODUCTIVE. Starting is one thing, being highly productive is another. I repeat, in 5, 10, 15 years from now this is a moot point. You're just really glad that when you had the chance to get a franchise QB, YOU DID! And very thankful you weren't suffering from tunnel vision at the time.

And saying they might not have been productive is the same thing as saying nothing. I pointed out several instances where the productivity was documented, and in some cases (O-Linemen), it's tough to show productiviity. But the thing you're overlooking is expectations. Regardless of what the 2016 season actually ends up being for him, the Cowboys will expect productivity out of anybody they draft at the #4 position (unless they go the QB route), and that's what I think will drive the pick.

 

[Texian]

I pointed out several instances

Yes you did, get back with me in 2018.

 

[beerlover]

Infant has made it abundantly clear he is a Cowboy fan, therefore knows Jerry Jones better than any Texan fans to which I say, you can have it! But to say Wentz isn't worth the pick because they already have Romo just shows the pure arrogance of both. Somehow they think Romo won't get hit? That he'll play only to secure a victory & will be used judiciously like rare wine with steak. His back & shoulder issues behind him.

Wentz could be the next Romo that fits seamlessly into the present day Cowboy system. As matter of fact what a great opportunity, behind that offensive line. Only difference I see is that Wentz will bring home Championships, that's what he does. No forget Romo, think Stauback. We'd all be best served turning in our Rick Smith battle red, Texan jerseys & buying into Infant's beloved Cowboys as they proclaim "Americas Team".

 

[JB]

Infant has made it abundantly clear he is a Cowboy fan, therefore knows Jerry Jones better than any Texan fans to which I say, you can have it! But to say Wentz isn't worth the pick because they already have Romo just shows the pure arrogance of both. Somehow they think Romo won't get hit? That he'll play only to secure a victory & will be used judiciously like rare wine with steak. His back & shoulder issues behind him.

Wentz could be the next Romo that fits seamlessly into the present day Cowboy system. As matter of fact what a great opportunity, behind that offensive line. Only difference I see is that Wentz will bring home Championships, that's what he does. No forget Romo, think Stauback. We'd all be best served turning in our Rick Smith battle red, Texan jerseys & buying into Infant's beloved Cowboys as they proclaim "Americas Team".

Infant?

 

[infantrycak]

But to say Wentz isn't worth the pick because they already have Romo just shows the pure arrogance of both.

Who said Wentz wasn't worth the pick?

So tell me all knowing Draftnik - if Wentz is the next Staubach, why in holy Hades would we not move heaven and earth to go get him?

 

[Honoring Earl 34]

Sometimes looking for a QB is like a deserted island with Rosie , Whoopi , Mimi , Roseanne Barr , Janet Reno , Rhea Perlman , and Sandra Bernhard . No matter what one of them has to be the prettiest .

 

[beerlover]

Who said Wentz wasn't worth the pick?

So tell me all knowing Draftnik - if Wentz is the next Staubach, why in holy Hades would we not move heaven and earth to go get him?

Strikes a chord doesn't it?

I'm sure the Texans will try, even all in, but why would a team trade that away? Doubt Texans could possibly offer enough. This years 1st next years 1st & one or both 2nd rounders.

 

[infantrycak]

Strikes a chord doesn't it?

Nope. Have no recollection of anyone saying Wentz was not worth the pick and it certainly wasn't said by me. Try making crap up about someone else.

 

[Texian]

Strikes a chord doesn't it?

I'm sure the Texans will try, even all in, but why would a team trade that away? Doubt Texans could possibly offer enough. This years 1st next years 1st & one or both 2nd rounders.

A minimum of three (3) firsts and it's extremely doubtful Tenn would do deal with the Texans.

 

[mussop]

Unless Jones truly believes Wentz is not a top tier qb prospect then he would be crazy to pass him up.

 

[PapaL]

A minimum of three (3) firsts and it's extremely doubtful Tenn would do deal with the Texans.

You mean because they've never traded before? Except they have.

 

[beerlover]

all I got to say or share is my favorite Super Bowl commercial