Yep, and I use this as proof that you need luck to win a SB. What's Kubiak's record again?
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Brock Getting the Boys In Step Early
- Thread starter CloakNNNdagger
- Start date
Yep, and I use this as proof that you need luck to win a SB. What's Kubiak's record again?
He's 73-68 .518
But yeah, a little luck is needed whether you have Belichick (233-113) or Tom Coughlin (170-150)
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
4 rings.
On the heels of Walsh/Montana/Young/Shanny/Elway and Peyton. Everytime he has a HOF/GOAT type QB he wins. (Shocking)
Schaub/ his only handpicked guy = .500
I cant wait to see how he develops Lynch, he's never had to develop a rookie QB before. Os had already learned plenty from Peyton before Kubiak got there.
I know how you worship at the feet of a .500 HC and we will never agree on Kubiak's HC abilities. After 8 yrs I'm glad he's gone. Great guy though.
197 - 139 with Broncos (twice), Texans, and Ravens
I didn't count that Niners season (13-3 and a SB) since he didn't call the plays
So what's yer point?
197 - 139 with Broncos (twice), Texans, and Ravens
I didn't count that Niners season (13-3 and a SB) since he didn't call the plays
So what's yer point?
I thought Walsh/Shanny/Harbaugh were the HC's of those teams?
Didn't Walsh/Shanny call the plays?
I seem to remember that was the reason McNair didn't hire Kubiak over Capers. In fact looking back on the Capers hire I wish Kubiak would've been hired instead, that would've saved 8 yrs of mediocrity and the franchise probably wouldn't have had to suffer thru two 2-14 seasons.
As I said, I didn't count that Niners year but Kubiak was the OC for the Broncos from '95 until he came to the Texans in 2005. So Kubiak called the plays for Denver and Baltimore and most of the time when he was here.
Oh and do you actually believe that Peyton was playing at a Hall of Fame level last year? Seriously?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Remind me, what was Belichick's record without Brady?
Then remind me how many rings Young/Shanny/Elway/Peyton have without Kubiak. I'll start you off with one for Peyton.
Who was calling the plays?
I doubt it was Bellichek calling the offensive plays
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
1- Peyton with the Colts. I notice you didn't add Montana in the framing of your post. Young was the backup so no he shouldn't have as many rings and Kubiak left soon after the Young SB yr.
And if you really think that Kubiak called the plays for the Elway yrs then we really cant have this discussion.
This is interesting discussion and I'm glad to see your love for all things Kubiak is still shining bright after all of these yrs. Wish you wouldn't let that light cloud your judgement of BOB who has made half as many playoff appearances as Kubiak did in his 2 yrs with the Texans. I actually find your posts regarding BOB humorous. Thanks for the LOL's.
Who was calling the plays when Kubiak was OC?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Kubiak was with the Niners in 1994. Montana was in KC. Good Oilers fan should know that since he kicked Houston out of the playoffs in '93.
Elway and Shanny both say Kubiak called the plays for the SB years.
Why exactly do you think Elway hired Kubiak?
Elway and Shanny both say Kubiak called the plays for the SB years.
Why exactly do you think Elway hired Kubiak?
It is well known that Shanny called the plays in Denver when Elway was the QB. It was the reason McNair didn't hire Kubiak as the 1st HC of the Texans. Walsh called the plays when Shanny was the OC and Kubiak was the QB coach with the 49ers.
I mean how hard is it to be the QB coach of Montana/Young/Elway. I know Kubiak was the OC in Elways last 2 yrs. He essentially was the weekday gameplanner in conjuction with Shanny. But Shanny called the plays on gameday. Remember the SB highlight when Shanny put Davis back in the game with a migrane and he was blinded? Shanny said he wanted to call a boot but it wouldn't work unless Davis was in the game for the run fake. Kubiak certainly didn't call that play. (Example)
Did he call the plays for the 49ers?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
All I know is Shanny called that play in the SB. Heard it with my own ears.
We are never going to agree on anything related to Kubiak, so I'm out of here.
I notice you didn't respond to the BOB part of my post.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Another attempt to rabbit trail.
I said at the time the team was an 8-9 win team. You disagreed. Everything sucked. I'm not doing jumping jacks about 9 wins when I said it was a 9 win team.
So that's why he hired Capers. I never understood that, but now it's perfectly clear. McNair wanted a HC who would call the offensive plays.
So that's why he hired Capers. I never understood that, but now it's perfectly clear. McNair wanted a HC who would call the offensive plays.
He hired Capers because he wanted a QB Guru to groom his young face of the franchise... no wonder Carr sucked
I heard that SB clip but Shanny's input was that the play that was called would be more convincing if TD was in the game. No where in that clip does it actually say who CALLED the play. You're making the leap that since Shanny gave that input he made the play call. Not necessarily so. Kubiak called the play and Shanny added the "TD needs to be in the game" to make the play work better.
Oh and this is yet another example of head shed collaboration breeding success as opposed to one guy doing his job, and ONLY his job, in a vacuum as you seem to think things work. At least that's what you've said.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Jayson Braddock put this together.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Jayson Braddock @JaysonBraddock 12h12 hours ago
I've seen some good & some bad from Brock. On the bad side, how do you miss this throw?!
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Jayson Braddock put this together.
Curious if that same disparity holds true for just about every QB in the league. I imagine it does, so again Braddock seems to be going for a bit of a hit piece on Brock. This is a "water is wet" article. He would fit right in here on TT with his obvious bias towards a specific player.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
I've noticed that Braddock for some reason seems to have turned to a good deal of negativity towards O'Brien and the Texans over the past year.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Isn't it pretty well documented that he had an absolute meltdown when the Texans signed Os? His work just seems to be agenda driven now. Wants so desperately to be right about the Texans being wrong. Like I said, he would fit in well here. If he isn't already...
Jayson Braddock put this together.
I can understand the concern from those who believe Brock is a finished product.
I think the kid's got the tools & has shown the toughness to develop into a fine QB. Now, it's on O'b to do what he do.
Yeah, but how big are Oz's hands?
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Did you think of this?.............Brock is younger (25) than Savage (26)?
Did not realize that.
PapaL
Loose Screw
If I'm understanding that chart against good pass defenses DEN/Brock didn't pass much but rather ran the ball, played defense, and won the game. But against teams with less than ideal passing defenses they passed the ball, ran the ball, played defense, and won games.
This is a problem how?
This is a problem how?
Uh... because he only won 5 out of 7 starts & he was benched for his RB fumbling.
haha! tbh, most people look goofy as urban cowboys. You need a horse to make a cowboy hat look good...unless you're John Wayne. Heck, even Clint Eastwood didn't wear a typical cowboy hat in most of his movies, much less one of those straw ones so prevalent in the big city around rodeo time.
Brock looks good in a football helmet. That's the only lid that really matters here.
I wouldn't say most...
& these are the fans of the team with the injun mascot
& these are the fans of the team with the injun mascot
I wouldn't say most...
& these are the fans of the team with the injun mascot
I would just like to take a moment and say THANK YOU for this post.
I wouldn't say most...
& these are the fans of the team with the injun mascot
I do not think you are looking at their HATS. Just sayin'...
and I did say "most", which is not the same as "all"....You were actin' like Brock looked like this:
I do not think you are looking at their HATS. Just sayin'...
You were actin' like Brock looked like this:
That's pretty much what I see when I see Brock in a Cowboy hat.
ha! That's hilarious. And pretty much how I feel about every urban cowboy, especially around February when all the wild west costumes come out of the closets for rodeo season.
PapaL
Loose Screw
Spot on!
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Braddock Breakdown: Dissecting 2015 Brock Osweiler
Posted May 23rd, 2016 @ 9:21am
With this piece, I watched every throw Brock Osweiler made in 2015 with the Broncos, just to get a better feel for him and his potential. Check it out:
Every Throw Osweiler made in 2015
vs. Chiefs - Missed several open receivers, held on to the ball too long, KC dropped at least 3 other opportunities for interceptions. Osweiler is naturally accurate despite having poor throwing mechanics. His deep passes were just lofts to general areas which lacked accuracy.
vs. Bears - 2nd game in a row in which he threw a TD by running around in the pocket & throwing off-balanced. Has a knack of being accurate with his body off-kilt. Takes sack with horrific protection by his OL. Has to know when to throw the ball away & not take a sack. Next play was another sack but not his fault. LG ran right over by DT. Didn’t read defense correctly, OD flares out & he comes off read to dump off 5 yard pass. Daniels would have been running for days. Almost every pass is within 5 yard of the line of scrimmage. Only sees half the field, doesn’t see what’s ahead of the WR he’s throwing to. Will throw tons of INTs vs. zone as he locks into target that’s open in regards to the man trailing, but doesn’t look for safety over the top or linebackers dropping or corners coming over in zone. Accuracy outside of 5-10 yards questionable. Easy 15 yard out at the feet of Vernon Davis. Takes another unnecessary sack. Another unnecessary sack.
vs. Pats - Will get his receivers killed. Doesn’t look at what he’s throwing his receivers into. Throws downfield are just lofted in a general area. Hits 20 yard crosser, slightly behind. His accuracy has a ceiling. Gets the ball in the area, but won’t be in stride. Lacks great ball location. Seems more comfortable on the move, rolling out, stepping up & throwing on the run. Takes an unnecessary sack. Has a habit of taking sacks on 3rd down when he could easily throw ball away, has to understand that every yard counts. Good touch pass on go route, coverage too tight & pass broken up. Vast majority of passes are short, underneath passes. 15 yd hitch with clean pocket off of Demaryius’ hands. (Osweiler is obviously more comfortable with lots of space around him. NE game gave him opportunity to play in comfort zone as Pats pass rush was slowed by snow on field). Takes another unnecessary sack with 2 crossers in front of him. Good 15 yd post throw in tight window. Several good throws in this game in which Demaryius just flat out dropped the ball. Ball location past 10 yards is a huge concern. Two receivers opened earlier in route, Brock holds on the ball too long & then throws an ill-advised deep corner route 40 yards downfield with a safety out ahead & corner trailing, receiver did good job just to breakup INT. Misses easy 10 yard throw inside the seam to OD. The added protection is needed for Brock. If he can stand & space & take his time, he’s much more comfortable & looks adequate. Has tipped passes, sacks & takes brutal hits because of his delivery. Good go route pass that Demaryius highpoints. Follows that pass up with poor 5 yd hitch to field side that’s at the feet of Demaryius. Perfect 40 yard go throw to Sanders. Good back shoulder in the end zone for TD.
vs. Chargers - Rolls out, has Demaryius wide open & tries to force back inside & puts the ball high for an incompletion. Makes good throw to Demaryius, but had Vernon Davis wide open on post TD route. Has Demaryius open on a crosser, throws long go ball that doesn’t have a chance. Takes some risk on deep throws as he doesn’t account for all players in the vicinity of the play. Good decision to tuck & run instead of taking the sack. Seems like NE game gave him confidence. Feeling the pocket better. Still doesn’t see what he’s throwing into. Doesn’t even see Eric Weddle & Weddle drops easy pick. Takes back to back sacks by Melvin Ingram, the first was overturned for an unnecessary roughness penalty. Osweiler getting 10 yards on his drops, Texans’ OTs will have to be cautious of this vs. speed rushers. Verrett has two steps on Sanders, instead of throwing back shoulder, Osweiler throws long & gets picked off. When a blitzer is coming at him, he’ll turn & throw, doesn’t stand up to the pressure. Throws a completed hitch pass, but lacked velocity & anticipation.
vs. Raiders - Sanders coming open on a 15 yard in, but he checks down. Sees void from blitzer & throws strike on slant. Killed YAC opportunity on crosser by waiting too late to throw the ball. Still doesn’t see the blueprint of the play, meaning what’s about to happen. Only sees what’s already transpired. Takes shorts throw, even though it’s obvious that deep corner is coming open with blown coverage. Allows Vernon to come open in a window & puts it on him on 10 yard out. Still not seeing what’s in front of target, Woodson comes up & drops easy INT. Sanders puts on a double move & becomes wide open on Go route, Osweiler misses him by 5 yards. Got into a groove with Vernon Davis late in the 2nd quarter. Still showing that knack for throwing on the run. Worst throw ever!! Misses Virgil Green wide open in the end zone, throws 5 yards over his head. Simple drag route, Brock throws behind & at the feet of Sanders. Throws the skinny post pretty well by this point in the season.
vs. Steelers - Misses on 15 yd hitch. Still questionable ball placement over 10 yards. TD pass to Demaryius as LB peels off. Easy pitch & catch on TD pass to Sanders as the entire defense bit hard on PA fake & no one ran with Sanders. Another TD pass to Demaryius, it was a screen in which Thomas stiffed arm defender and ran it in. Takes a hit & still lobs up 30 yard completion to Sanders. Fooled by zone on the outside, safety drops easy pick 6. Does good to avoid the sack but doesn’t see LB in zone & throws INT. Smart back shoulder throw to Sanders. Doesn’t see safety & almost throws pick to lose the game, incomplete pass.
vs. Bengals - Takes unnecessary sack. Corner in hip pocket & safety over the top, Brock still throws & receiver had to breakup pick. 5 yd out to Sanders & he runs it in for TD. Sanders goes uncovered on drag route, Brock throws to Demaryius on go route & overthrows him. Beautiful out & up throw to OD between two defenders. Then next throw misses easy 10 yd hitch. Rolls out, has OD for an easy pitch & catch for 15 yards, but overthrows deep route out of bounds instead. OD open on the next play, Brock misses him wide.
vs. Chargers - Throws 5 yard hitch, Demaryius makes defender miss & runs 70+ yards for the TD. Throws deep go pass out of bounds. Easy crosser to Latimer, throws high & slightly behind & almost gets Latimer killed as corner just cuts legs when Cody leaps. Next play is in route to Demaryius, Thomas makes catch but again has to leave his feet to do so. Simple passes that should be between the numbers. Interception, but not his fault as it hits off Norwood’s hands & floats to DB for pick. Barely misses go throw to Demaryius, but he was under pressure & would have been an extremely difficult throw. Gets to his 3rd progression, had solid protection & hits Norwood on deep post. Doesn’t see or feel the DB blitz by Steve Williams & gets blindsided & fumbles. Still showing a unique ability to step up & hit throws on the run in the pocket. Arm hit while making a throw & ball flutters for INT. Doesn’t see the layout of zone coverage (this will be a huge area of concern in 2016). Benched after going down 13-7 in the early 3rd quarter. Broncos went on to win 27-20. Broncos scored 20 points after Peyton came in for the final quarter & a half.
NOTES: He played 6 games from beginning to end. Was sacked 5 times in a game twice & 3 times in a game three times. In the 2nd half of games he only completed 53.9% of passes & threw 4 TDs & 3 INTs. He was also sacked 15 times in the 2nd half of games as opposed to 8 times in the 1st half. Of his 10 TD passes & 6 INTs, he 5 TDs & 1 INT came in the first quarter (Kubiak’s scripted plays). Didn’t throw any interceptions in the red zone.
Summation:
Naturally accurate to a vicinity despite having proper mechanics. Doesn’t display specific ball placement accuracy, but can throw a catchable ball from multiple launch points. Much more comfortable with space, whether that’s outside the pocket or ample breathing room from within the pocket. Doesn’t throw with anticipation, waits for the receivers to start their break, before starting his release. Elongated release with lower trajectory that causes fumbles, batted balls, brutal hits, etc.
He doesn’t see the blitz at times & can be blindsided. Most troubling is his lack of seeing ahead of his targets. In each and every game he throws his receivers into collusions and/or throws easy picks or opportunities for picks by solely focusing on his target & the defender in the trail position. This includes not seeing dropping linebackers, safeties coming into the play, zone coverage’s with corners peeling off, etc. This is by far the area of improvement that needs constant teaching & development.
Kubiak’s offense is user friendly. Matt Schaub had three seasons of 4,000+ passing yards. Kubiak has also been known to script the first 20 or so plays to start games. O’Brien has said in the past that he doesn’t script the opening plays on offense. This could be another area of trouble as Osweiler’s stats are padded in these scripted 1st quarters of games, throwing 5 of his 10 touchdowns on the year, in the first quarter and only 1 of his 6 interceptions came in the 1st quarter.
Blake Bortles was the most sacked quarterback in 2015. He was sacked 51 times. Aaron Rodgers was 2nd, being sacked a total of 46 times. Brock Osweiler was sacked 23 times, despite only playing in 8 games and only playing 6 games in it’s entirety. In the 6 complete games that Osweiler played, he was sacked 19 times. Staying on the same continued pace that he displayed in those 6 starts, he would have been sacked 50.7 times in 2015 if he played the entire season. The Texans are set to have 2/3rd of the interior of their OL changed to newcomers, possibly including a rookie. It could be the entire interior if Xavier Su’a-Filo doesn’t improve. Starting tackles, Derek Newton and Duane Brown have their own issues. Newton is coming off his worse season since his rookie year & Brown is coming off an injury and will become 31 before the start of the season.
Out of 32 starting left tackles in the NFL, only 6 are older than Brown:
- Jason Peters (34)
- Andrew Whitworth (34)
- Donald Penn (33)
- Joe Thomas (31)
- Joe Staley (31)
- Branden Albert (31)
There’s also a new starting quarterback, running back, possibly two new starting receivers and the chance that they use a new receiving threat at tight end. There should be a concern with Osweiler’s sack history and the lack of chemistry in this offense.
Unless there’s an unusual amount of time in the pocket, Osweiler doesn’t see the entire field. Mostly he’ll live on half field reads. It’s rare for Osweiler to throw down field. Predominantly he looks underneath. Just when you think he’s catching on, he makes a throw similar to a third string quarterback.
After watching every single throw that Brock Osweiler made in 2015, I have cautious expectations for the Texans new franchise quarterback.
A DISCLAIMER should have accompanied this piece of Braddock's:
corytx8
Rookie
I do worry about Os ability to scan the field. Hopefully this will improve with experience and BOB can help him with this. Just remember that the Broncos OL was worse than the Texans last yr and even Rodgers/Brady etc... occasionally hold on to the ball too long.
Although Os isn't the most accurate guy he's more accurate than most. Kubiak's offense is set up to be more productive in the first half and sit on a lead in the 2nd half, so naturally Os numbers should be worse in the 2nd half.
While I agree with some of what Braddock says, Os looks like a QB that has only started 7 games. IMHO
Although Os isn't the most accurate guy he's more accurate than most. Kubiak's offense is set up to be more productive in the first half and sit on a lead in the 2nd half, so naturally Os numbers should be worse in the 2nd half.
While I agree with some of what Braddock says, Os looks like a QB that has only started 7 games. IMHO
Vinnie
with an I E
Exactly
Brandon420tx
Flounder
I've never heard of padding stats in the first quarter. And the OLine concerns along with the completely new offensive personnel would be present no matter who the QB is, I can't see how he's trying to use that as a knock against Os. Maybe I read that part wrong.
QuiGonGinNTonic
Waterboy
can someone tell me what our new offensive line compares to Denver's offensive line when brock was at QB
Not honestly they couldn't.
- We don't know if Duane Brown's going to play this season & if he does, if he'll be the guy we need him to be, or when he'll even be ready to try.
- We've got options. I know we drafted a Center, & a RG. But those guys can play multiple positions. Oday Aboushi, he looks the part & he's got history with our OL coach. He may play a bigger role than we think. XSF can play guard, tackle, & center. I know he struggled as a rookie, but he can probably do well anywhere (RT) if he starts working on it now. Chris Clark, Jeff Adams, David Quessenberry... Guards/Tackles.....
- It's very possible that all five starting OL are new for 2016.
Then again, I think Denver is going through the same thing right now.
amazing80
Hall of Fame
I said the same thing, padding stats in the first quarter, seems legit......lmao