Hervoyel
BUENO!
Maybe I'm spoiled watching Watt and thinking the guy on the other side should be doing something special too. I guess I got that last year when Mercilus finally kicked it in but I was looking at the wrong guy.
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Brock Getting the Boys In Step Early
- Thread starter CloakNNNdagger
- Start date
Maybe I'm spoiled watching Watt and thinking the guy on the other side should be doing something special too. I guess I got that last year when Mercilus finally kicked it in but I was looking at the wrong guy.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Regardless of scooching around, the DL is the DL and the other DE plays "opposite" JJ. If you're all about placement he is often wider than the other DE but he isn't near as wide as Clowney/Mercilus typically.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
lol couldn't have said it better myself.
Crick is an interior defensive lineman. He plays inside the tackle. Not straight up (5 tech) not outside. Jj Watt, Mercilus, & Clowney play outside the tackles.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Doesn't matter if he plays outside all the time which he does not. He's a DE. The assignments on DLs often leave them asymmetric - doesn't make them not DLmen. We don't run 2 OLBs on the same side, one up one down. Being the opposite means being the other DE not that you are exactly mirror images.
If you're expecting the person to take Jared Crick's spot to produce double digit sacks because he's a DLman that plays opposite Jj Watt... you're always going to be disappointed. It's not going to happen.
Malik Jackson didn't even get double digit sacks & he plays pretty much the same role Jared Crick did. Demarcus Ware & Von Miller are set up to get all the sacks, pressures, & hurries in their offense.
Jj Watt, Mercilus, & Clowney are set up to get those numbers in ours.
Malik Jackson didn't even get double digit sacks & he plays pretty much the same role Jared Crick did. Demarcus Ware & Von Miller are set up to get all the sacks, pressures, & hurries in their offense.
Jj Watt, Mercilus, & Clowney are set up to get those numbers in ours.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
How about we up the number from 2 before we set the bar at 10+?
2002 Gary Walker opposite JJ would be wreaking havoc.
Number19
Hall of Fame
After bulking up, if Covington hasn't lost his quickness, I'm hopeful we'll see this level of production. Covington is a penetrating DE who'll pressure the QB and hopefully will have the strength to set the edge against the run.
bah007
Hall of Fame
TK is exaggerating his point but he does have a point. We use the DE opposite Watt as more of an interior run stopper than we do as a pass rusher. Now, an argument could be made that the one we had couldn't rush the passer and that's why we didn't ask him to. But Crick wasn't some scrub as a pass rusher in college. He had 19 sacks in two seasons as a 3 technique DT. That's good production from an interior guy.
It is true that Crick was often aligned closer to the ball than Watt was. Watt is also an exceptional player. He's an interior player that we can align wide because he is athletic enough and long enough to go from outside the tackle to inside the guard in a flash, but still powerful enough to bull his way through contact if he gets it.
I expect more than 2 sacks from Crick's replacement. But his primary job will still be to play the run. At any given time he will be only the fourth best pass rusher on the field. Denver's fourth guy had 5.5. Kansas City's had 5. Seattle's had 3. Arizona's had 3. And those are the elite defensive units in the league.
It is true that Crick was often aligned closer to the ball than Watt was. Watt is also an exceptional player. He's an interior player that we can align wide because he is athletic enough and long enough to go from outside the tackle to inside the guard in a flash, but still powerful enough to bull his way through contact if he gets it.
I expect more than 2 sacks from Crick's replacement. But his primary job will still be to play the run. At any given time he will be only the fourth best pass rusher on the field. Denver's fourth guy had 5.5. Kansas City's had 5. Seattle's had 3. Arizona's had 3. And those are the elite defensive units in the league.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
FWIW, PFF last year ranked Crick as the 4th worst DE's in the NFL.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Just want to be clear here, I'm not defending Crick. I see no reason to bring him back and plenty of reason to upgrade the position.
I'm only defending TK's analysis a little bit. We simply didn't ask Crick to do much as a pass rusher.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
And to be clear I wasn't disputing Crick's alignment or more run stopping role. I disagree with saying Crick was not opposite JJ. Having DEs with different emphasis is normal in either a 4-3 or 3-4. Frankly what is odd with JJ in our 3-4 is getting this much rush from the DL at all in a 3-4.
bah007
Hall of Fame
It all comes down to Watt just being a freak. He is the closest thing in a long time to being just literally unblockable in every phase of the game. Some guys get sacks but don't play the run quite as well. Some are studs against the run but don't produce as much in the passing game. But he is just the best in the world at both right now.
His production is nearly HOF worthy already if you look at it in the context of who he would be compared to. Among interior players, which I would consider a five technique DE to be, his statistical production at this point in his career is insane.
If he played another ten years (I don't think he will but just for comparative purposes), he would only need to average 7.5 sacks per year and he would break Alan Page's record for an interior player. Page took 15 years to get to 149. Watt has 75 in his first five years.
The top guys at his position in this past era were probably Justin Smith (criminally underrated) and Richard Seymour. Smith had 87 sacks in 14 years. Seymour had 58 in 12 years.
The next best guy in this current era would have to be Muhammad Wilkerson. They were drafted in the same year and Wilkerson has only accumulated 36 sacks up to this point. So Watt has twice as many sacks as the next best guy at his position.
We're seeing all-time greatness when we get to watch Watt play.
His production is nearly HOF worthy already if you look at it in the context of who he would be compared to. Among interior players, which I would consider a five technique DE to be, his statistical production at this point in his career is insane.
If he played another ten years (I don't think he will but just for comparative purposes), he would only need to average 7.5 sacks per year and he would break Alan Page's record for an interior player. Page took 15 years to get to 149. Watt has 75 in his first five years.
The top guys at his position in this past era were probably Justin Smith (criminally underrated) and Richard Seymour. Smith had 87 sacks in 14 years. Seymour had 58 in 12 years.
The next best guy in this current era would have to be Muhammad Wilkerson. They were drafted in the same year and Wilkerson has only accumulated 36 sacks up to this point. So Watt has twice as many sacks as the next best guy at his position.
We're seeing all-time greatness when we get to watch Watt play.
He's tall.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
He's not Wentz.
Or Goff
thank goodness he's not Hoyer....?
New to us. He's a four year vet & hadn't won a Super Bowl, or a playoff game for that matter.
We should have traded up to six to get Wentz.
badboy
Hall of Fame
apparently we would have been a few picks shy of getting him
Then we should have traded ahead of the Rams.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Pretty sure he's joking - the Rams are #1.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Thought he was talking about trading before Rams moved to first.
No. I'm talking about how ridiculous some of our posters have gotten since we made or QB decision & it didn't involve trading up for the #1 overall.
Who? I haven't seen anyone saying we should of moved up to 1. I don't think we've done enough yet. I'm not sold on osweiler. Look at what the Eagles and Rams have Givin up to get their QB. All we have done is sign a more or less unproven backup that no one else seemed to be lining up for. We're there any other bidders for osweiler than us and denver?
I just don't see osweiler like a lot of you guys here. It seems like a lot of guys here think the offense should be built around him. Why? What's he done to deserve that?
Shishkabob
All Pro
He's done absolutely nothing to deserve it but it's about giving him his best shot to succeed. In skeptical of hI'm but in year 3 of ob and Rick smith at the helm they finally decided to go get "their guy" he's still young, young qbs no matter how talented need help so give him a good line, a solid run game and another weapon besides Hopkins. I don't see what's wrong with that. If he fails we will clean house anyways but at least we will have some more pieces in place for the next guy and no one will have an excuse of why he failed. Basically are defense is stout we need to fill some depth issues but our offense outside of Hopkins is non existent so make it better
The point I'm trying to get across is to the people who keep clamoring the whole draft needs to be offense. I don't mind using our first pick on offense but we can't ignore defense. We have to get some quality youth on both lines. It jus
Number19
Hall of Fame
Over the past 9 year's first and second round picks, 11 out of 15 have been defense (no second round selections in 2012, 2008 & 2007). I hardly think we've been ignoring defense. We've been ignoring offense and this became apparent last season.
With my mock, I addressed offense with our first four picks but then went defense with the bottom three. We have a pretty good defense and we can ride with what we have for one draft.
First, it's Texian & SteelB who've gone off the deep end since we didn't do whatever it took to get Wentz. Well, for Texian anyway. SteelB is just tagging along. I don't think he cared for us to go all out on Wentz, but any reason to bag on Smith...
Secondly, I think we've ignored the offensive side of the ball for way too long. Kubiak was good at making chicken Salad out of chicken sht. O'b doesn't appear to be as gifted. We could be going into next season with Tom Savage slotted as our starter. I'd still want as many offensive players picked as possible.
& safety. We're still looking for a rangy play making safety.
Shishkabob
All Pro
He'll I'm fine going dline in the first round honestly. Everyone says how deep the class is and you can wait, but what a deep class to me means one of these guys in any other draft might be a top 15 pick that we could get at 22. Also I think the fact that we have jj covers up some major deficiencies there, look what happened to our discussion when he went out in the kc game. However if we go that route I hope we go OL and some offensive weapon with the next 2 picks
bah007
Hall of Fame
Sounds like he's been a good teammate so far..
sandman
Brexit Advisor
Just being the best teammate he can be...
I hope he can keep it up... following Peyton that is.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Jayson Braddock on 790 revealed that McNair and Smith had to persuade O'Brien to take Osweiler over taking a QB in the 1st round.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Ok leak on one decision I'll buy. All the sudden the Texans become an open book? - not so much.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
Just relating what was broadcast.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Never suggested otherwise.
bah007
Hall of Fame
Braddock knows football but he's full of sh*t when it comes to what's going on with the Texans.
I've listened to his show numerous times and he routinely reports stuff under the guise of "sources" that I know for a fact aren't true.
Football knowledge is on point. But he's in the game to get ratings, not provide us with the truth.
I've listened to his show numerous times and he routinely reports stuff under the guise of "sources" that I know for a fact aren't true.
Football knowledge is on point. But he's in the game to get ratings, not provide us with the truth.
I can't remember what it was, but the way the whole thing started had me thinking this was the case.
Not that O'b was against it or anything, but it started with Rick presenting an idea to O'b, in the event Osweiler ever hits the market at all.
Then as everything started to work out, it started being reported as O'bs idea.
DX-TEX
#TomSavageDontCare
With O'Briens known disdain for starting rookies I find this hard to believe. Brock is the "prototype" O'Brien QB. Tall, pocket passer with a strong arm who can make adjustments at the line and under pressure.
Just doesnt add up
I never said anything about Wentz or have even mentioned Rick or trading up for a QB. I did say if it were me I would've traded up for Goff. I like the Osweiler signing. So quit using my name and making stuff up.
Thanks
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Wasn't there a story floating around out there that OB and Rick saw Osweiler during our group practices with the Broncos a couple of years ago and have been trying to get him ever since? Didn't they try to trade for Os before this?
corytx8
Rookie
As much as Steel and I have had some disagreements, Steel didn't have a problem with the brock signing. He only hates Rick Smith. Its Texian with his burn everything Texan down like a Californian wildfire, who has gone off the deep end.
No hate for Rick, I just dont think he's very good at his job, among other things.
I'm really sorry this was brought up. It's way out of context & to address it now would be a waste of time. Still, to summarize, there's good Steelbtexan & there's "I could have skipped reading that post" Steelbtexan. Even though you don't agree with Rick, or other members here, there are times when you contribute to the conversation, help it go forward. Then there are times when regardless what is happening now, we dwell on what was done years ago that has no bearing on the team now (or there's nothing anyone can do about it) or the team in the future.
When I wrote that bad Steelbtexan showed up for a couple of days. Weeks before & weeks after, we had/have been blessed with good Steelbtexan. & it wasn't necessarily that you wanted Wentz or whatever. Texian was going off & you were piling on. That's all that post was about.