The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
Tom Brady wasn't Tom Brady when he was drafted.
If the FO didn't think any of this year's QB crop was better than Clowney, I'm OK with that for now.
Death to Google Ads! Texans Talk Tip Jar! 🍺😎👍
Thanks for your support!
Blake Bortles
- Thread starter Texian
- Start date
Tom Brady wasn't Tom Brady when he was drafted.
If the FO didn't think any of this year's QB crop was better than Clowney, I'm OK with that for now.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Why do you guys continue to say this stuff. I am so sick of hearing people use Brady references for QB's for what "could happen." I've got news for ya, it rarely does. Tom Brady is one of the biggest if not the biggest exceptions in NFL history for a guy being an elite QB out of nowhere. 90% of the time the other 6th round and below QB's end up being below average. Sure, anything is possible but the majority of the QB's in this league come as early first rounders. Hell, look at most of the starters in this league. Brady is a huge exception and that will never be the norm.
We need to do everything possible in the next season to find a top flight QB. Mortgage however many picks it takes going into next year's draft.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
And you think I don't know that?
However, it's the truth. When Tom Brady was drafted, he wasn't expected to displace Drew Bledsoe... ever.
But because Tom Brady is the only 6th round pick to really produce, there are guys later in the drafts who do and there are guys in THIS draft who could.
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
Most of the starting Qb's in the NFL at the end of last year were taken after the first round:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFL_starting_quarterbacks
drs23
Veteran
Dan, you've certainly been around here long enough to know better than to use facts to derail a good rant. Could earn ya a demerit ya know?
I'd rather have had Mack as well but I'm not going to let it knot my knickers. If JDC plays to his full potential and can be a player in the mold of Haley and McGinst then the Texans have knocked it outta the park. If he just collects paychecks and lays down then he'll just be a Clown. I think I'm going to remain positive. It's entirely up to the new #90 if his star rises or plummets.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
Sb winning QB's from the last ten years or so are:
1. Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, Russell Ben, Flacco.
Brady was that one exception along with Russell. Russell's team got there and won mainly due to defense.
I pretty much rest my case. Elite QB's generally come in the first round. Luck is practically elite now as well and he was a #1 over all draft pick. Don't let facts get in the way of what typically has happened in the NFL though.
This is a QB's league and it always will be.
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
The only one of those to go early in the first (your words, not mine) was Manning. Maybe Roethlisberger if you are being very generous with the term "early." None of the others were taken in the top half of the first. To be fair Eli should be on that list too, although (like Flacco, Ben, Russell, and one of Brady's) it was mainly the defense that won the Giants those two rings -- specifically the DL.
Brees: 2nd round
Brady: 6th round
Rogers: 24th pick
Flacco: 18th
Ben: 11th
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
These are all first rounders other than Brees and Brady. My point exactly. Go ahead and make some argument that it's easy to find great QB's in all rounds of the draft, but the majority of time teams end up shuffling through multiple QB's time and time again with that weakness holding their team back over and over. Meanwhile teams with elite level QB's are in the playoff hunt every year and thought of as contenders. This is a passer's league and that's what the NFL wants it to be.
I agree with you for the most part. The better QBs are generally 1st round picks.
But you're talking about guys like Flacco & Rodgers who were taken in the later part of the first, which is probably where we'll be next year... mid first probably.
We should be able to trade up to the bottom half of the top 10 without breaking the bank & get guys like Roethlisberger or Cutler (11th overall selections).
But if Mariata or Hundley are the talk of the draft next season, we'll be better off not buying the hype & go with the tried & true 6'5" 230lb, major program, major conference, winner.
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
The thing is, some of those teams (Cleveland, Jacksonville) have consistently reached for a QB early every year because they felt that the NFL is a QB driven league and you gotta have that guy. Meanwhile San Francisco and Seattle patiently waited for a QB that was right for them.
Just because you draft a guy early doesn't make him elite. I don't think it's easy to find a great QB in the late rounds -- I also don't think it's easy to find an elite one in the first. That's why there aren't a lot of elite QB's. Most prospects don't pan out.
Dan B.
Hall of Fame
Exactly. They went to teams that had built at other positions already. The same logic holds at every position (except kicker/punter). First round picks succeed more often.
Texecutioner
Hall of Fame
THis is a fair point, but Cleveland and Jacksonville aren't really the best examples to use when you consider how dumb some of those picks looked like from the jump. I won't say the Brady Quinn pick was, because many thought he had potential, but that Weeden pick was laughable. I couldn't believe they did that. I like Manziel a lot and I have a lot of concerns about him at the next level, but I don't see a problem with rolling the dice on Manziel personally. He has that it factor and he'll sell tickets which is something the Browns could use to ignite the fan base right now. The Browns front office has been a disaster in all sorts of ways. Jacksonville has as well. I don't recall anyone thinking Gabbert was going to set the world on fire. He never looked like a good prospect to me.
There are plenty of first rounders that don't pan out that well too. I'm not saying there aren't. But the guy that seem to really become studs usually are in the first round somewhere. I think the odds are much better for sure. I see a lot more teams shuffling QB's around when they pick these multiple 3rd rounders every other year.
Texian
Hall of Fame
The problem lies not so much with the players being drafted as it is with the people picking the players. The draft is just like everyday life, there are some people who are much better at doing certain tasks than others. The same applies to NFL Head Coaches who are often not the best evaluators of talent. Good Coaches? Yes! Good talent evaluators? No! Which is the primary reason they get fired. As was the case with Del Rio and Gabbert, Munchak and Locker and Spagnolo and Bradford.
Texian
Hall of Fame
Houston Texans nearly drafted Blake Bortles?
according to Tony Pauline.
The Texans held the first pick in the draft and there's was much intrigue right up until the final minutes. Houston seriously considered Blake Bortles with the initial selection and I'm told they had two cards filled out at their table. One had Bortles name on it while the other listed the team's eventual selection, Jadeveon Clowney. In the end Clowney was the smart pick and was made in large part based on fear; the team was afraid of passing up such a potentially dominant defender.
http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/5/21/5737952/blake-bortles-houston-texans-nfl-draft-2014
according to Tony Pauline.
The Texans held the first pick in the draft and there's was much intrigue right up until the final minutes. Houston seriously considered Blake Bortles with the initial selection and I'm told they had two cards filled out at their table. One had Bortles name on it while the other listed the team's eventual selection, Jadeveon Clowney. In the end Clowney was the smart pick and was made in large part based on fear; the team was afraid of passing up such a potentially dominant defender.
http://www.bigcatcountry.com/2014/5/21/5737952/blake-bortles-houston-texans-nfl-draft-2014
T,
Don't recall seeing your take on Savage. What is your opinion of him? Kinda new to this MB but always enjoy seeing your thoughts. Thanks. I was on the Bortles bandwagon as well.
Texian
Hall of Fame
When the going got tough Savage bailed, not once but twice. The QB that beat him out at Rutgers eventually got beat out also. I guess Savage also thought he had no chance at Arizona with Foles at the helm. I'm not particularly high on a QB that when the pressure rises he turns tail and runs. If you review history of QBs who left major programs because they couldn't get on the field or get satisfactory playing time, it's a pretty sad group.
That aside Savage makes as many bad decisions as he does good ones. His completion % was a paltry 62% and QB efficiency of 138 barely making the top 50. On the positive side he does have a BIG arm, an NFL arm. The BIG ? is, does he have the brain to use that arm it at a high level???? When you watch his 4 biggest games, FSU, Va Tech, ND, Miami (toughest competition) his production drops considerably.
I see Savage as a rookie head coach mistake.
I think that makes 3 of us on the BB wagon, You, Me and Texecutioner
Last edited:
AngryNateFTW
Veteran
I disagreed with you in the Clowney thread but I don't here. Hard to argue. A lot of questions with Savage and besides his great arm strength, it looks like we won't know how this pick turned out until 2015.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
Maybe but it would been even worse to use the #1 overall on Bortles who it has been reported, Texans had filled out a 2nd card just in case something changed their minds last second. I really don't think its any big deal to use a late 4th rd. pick to take a chance on the kid.
http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-med...m-Savage/ba432487-1418-4136-a409-9218295a30c8
Texian
Hall of Fame
Maybe but it would been even worse to use the #1 overall on Bortles who it has been reported, Texans had filled out a 2nd card just in case something changed their minds last second. I really don't think its any big deal to use a late 4th rd. pick to take a chance on the kid.
http://www.houstontexans.com/tv-med...m-Savage/ba432487-1418-4136-a409-9218295a30c8
I'll bet a dollar to a nickle that Bortles will be the much better QB. On another note, I would bet $100 on Bortles being be the Jags QB for the next 10 years.
What's that going to prove? Leftwhich made it for four years.
Texian
Hall of Fame
That ain't 10....
I hope you're wrong for the Texans sake, or atleast Bortles is a middle of the pack QB and hangs around for 10 yrs, I will admit Bortles has a lot of growth potential.
BTW, I don't make MB bets after getting stiffed on a couple of Schaub will suck last yr bets that I made before the season started.
These guys know who they are.
revan
Waterboy
Bortles popped into my radar when UCF played Louisville. I was watching Louisville because of Teddy and in the fourth quarter here comes Bortles just like Texian has said, calm and collected and gets that game winning touchdown on a long drive AT THEIR stadium.
Bortles has that thing about him to me that is like the Spurs. Gets the job done without much flash. Its a good thing we got Clowney and Watt because Luck and Bortles will be giving us headaches for the next decade. At least we got Savage though
.
Bortles has that thing about him to me that is like the Spurs. Gets the job done without much flash. Its a good thing we got Clowney and Watt because Luck and Bortles will be giving us headaches for the next decade. At least we got Savage though
.
Bortles popped into my radar when UCF played Louisville. I was watching Louisville because of Teddy and in the fourth quarter here comes Bortles just like Texian has said, calm and collected and gets that game winning touchdown on a long drive AT THEIR stadium.
Bortles has that thing about him to me that is like the Spurs. Gets the job done without much flash. Its a good thing we got Clowney and Watt because Luck and Bortles will be giving us headaches for the next decade. At least we got Savage though
Your probably going to be right. I like where the Texans (You gotta have more faith) and the Jags are going. The needle is definitely pointing up. IMHO
bah007
Hall of Fame
Hey I've been there with you the last couple of months. I was high on Bridgewater all last year but Bortles won me over in the end. I said the day before the draft that I would prefer Bortles or Mack be the #1 pick instead of Clowney. I even mocked Bortles to us at #1 in my final mock, in which I base my selections on what I would do if I were in charge of each team.
But I do have a lot of respect for O'Brien so for now I'll just trust in his judgment. And hope that I'm wrong about Bortles and he flops.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
If I was fishing for a trade , which they were , I would have two cards because they know who is on one card . A team that was focused on one player would be afraid his guy was on the other card .
Bortles right now is just a guy until proven otherwise . He was picked that high because the Jags wanted a local guy more than the headache of JF . JF had a better arm , bigger hands , and higher Wunderlich . JF also played in the SEC .
Savage has about the same size , much better arm , and bigger hands . Savage was a freshman All American and then got hurt his sophomore year and lost his job . He pouted and left to Arizona and when Arizona hired Rich Rodriguez , whose last QB was Denard Robinson , he left because he didn't fit the system . Savage admits to being a brat and having to grow up . He's like a Mormon kid who went on a two year mission . He's grown up at 24 .
NCTexan
Veteran
Plus Bortles uses steroids, has HIV, and framed a guy!
http://www.sbnation.com/2014/5/16/5724134/blake-bortles-lawsuit-teddy-bridgewater-steroids
--------------
On an actual, serious note. I don't think Bortles is going to be anything special. I'll eat my crow if he ends up being really good. But I see him as a middle of the road QB at best.
http://www.sbnation.com/2014/5/16/5724134/blake-bortles-lawsuit-teddy-bridgewater-steroids
--------------
On an actual, serious note. I don't think Bortles is going to be anything special. I'll eat my crow if he ends up being really good. But I see him as a middle of the road QB at best.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
This is all about a guy trying to enhance his opinion .
Texian
Hall of Fame
Some of us can see it and understand it and some us of don't. A lot of people think inside the box and a few us think outside the box. A few can see the BIG picture the rest can't. For every hundred sheep there is one Border Collie.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
It all comes out in the wash so we'll see if you're a border collie or Daffy Duck .
markn
All Pro
Fify
Texian
Hall of Fame
clever!
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
I repped him for that one .
Texian
Hall of Fame
So did I....
What is a "middle of the road QB" ?
Is this a four tier system?
- Elite
- Good
- Middle of the Road
- Bad
NCTexan
Veteran
If I had to quantify it I think he'll fall into a range around 13-18 best qb in the league.
But I've been wrong before and I'll be wrong again.
Carr Bombed
Hall of Fame
Middle... median... mean... average.
Last edited:
So if we're talking about a three tier scale
- Elite
- Middle of the road
- Bad
We're talking Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, type of production.
If we're talking about that 4 tier, we're looking at
Sam Bradford, Joe Flacco (outside the play offs), Carson Palmer, Ryan Tannehill.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Holy over complicating Batman:
Elite: QBs 1-10
Middle of the road: QBs 11-21
Bad: QBs 22-32
beerlover
Hall of Fame
yeah, holy crap Robin, two years ago the discussion was ranking Schaub among top ten QB's, borderline elite. now?
four not 1st rd QB picks, now considered elite, Russell Wilson Colin Kaepernick, Tom Brady & Nick Foles. besides being selected later they've done pretty good work but what they also have in common are genius football coaches/organizations. lets hope Bill O'Brian brings that level of play :kubepalm: & Savage exceeds expectations of those selected before him.
four not 1st rd QB picks, now considered elite, Russell Wilson Colin Kaepernick, Tom Brady & Nick Foles. besides being selected later they've done pretty good work but what they also have in common are genius football coaches/organizations. lets hope Bill O'Brian brings that level of play :kubepalm: & Savage exceeds expectations of those selected before him.
I'm just asking...
So we're talking about Russell Wilson, Colin Kaepernick, & Andrew Luck middle of the road.
I don't think anyone would complain if he plays as well as that group. #3 overall wouldn't look so bad either.
yeah, holy crap Robin, two years ago the discussion was ranking Schaub among top ten QB's, borderline elite. now?
four not 1st rd QB picks, now considered elite, Russell Wilson Colin Kaepernick, Tom Brady & Nick Foles. besides being selected later they've done pretty good work but what they also have in common are genius football coaches/organizations. lets hope Bill O'Brian brings that level of play :kubepalm: & Savage exceeds expectations of those selected before him.
Damn...... now we've got to go back to defining middle of the road, which was my point to begin with.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
If you rank them 11+ then yes. You have 10 guys ahead of them on current play?
You keep wanting to inject names which just confuses the matter because you may have 10 guys in front of those but someone else may only have 5. But anyway, most people are going to think around center of the pack (16.5) is the middle.
markn
All Pro
Texian
Hall of Fame
Pro Football Focus ‏@PFF
Most accurate QB under pressure this year has been... #Jaguars rookie Blake Bortles. 74.2% adjusting for drops
https://twitter.com/PFF/status/522757219792994304
Most accurate QB under pressure this year has been... #Jaguars rookie Blake Bortles. 74.2% adjusting for drops
https://twitter.com/PFF/status/522757219792994304
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Most accurate yet winless. I was waiting for the day Bortles would throw for 300 and this thread could be rehashed.
Wins matter, you know the whole "he wont let his team lose' mentality.
Bridgewater has looked horrible though, I will say that
Wins matter, you know the whole "he wont let his team lose' mentality.
Bridgewater has looked horrible though, I will say that
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
That's gotta be a hell of an adjustment for drops. When blitzed he is 61.9% completion 1 TD, 3 INTs and 54.2 QB rating. And overall he's leading the league at 4.9% of attempts intercepted.
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
Ryan Fitzpatrick has a higher yards per attempt than Bortles . 
Playoffs
Hall of Fame
Well, they are calling a lot of dink & dunk, bubble screen, middle screen passes regardless of score. He can only run what they're calling.
Interesting the JAX offensive line is ranked 14th in PFF Pass Blocking Efficiency -- takes into account the number of sacks, hits and hurries allowed by each linemen on a per snap basis, with weighting towards sacks allowed. Texans line is ranked 26th in PBE to date.