2019 1.23 TYTUS HOWARD OT Alabama State

[Uncle Rico]

No one is disregarding what cnd said. The doctors gave a bad diagnosis, that doesn't mean Brooks has a bad attitude. O'Brien has trouble getting along with people, this isn't the only example

Love Doc, will never try to disparage him intentionally, but he's been wrong here before, maybe more than once. He wont admit it, and its understandable and nice to have a medical professional here to add an opinion, but you have to take EVERYTHING with a grain of salt. OBrien is a certified asshole, the way he handles the media, ex players, opposing coaches is sickening and impossible to defend for me.

 

[steelbtexan]

"It's not my job!"

I love this line

Is it BOB's job to be a medical expert?

The medical staff said Brooks was fine and Brooks looked like a slacker due to being sick. I didn't blame them for letting Brooks walk, particularly with the $$$$ Philly spent on him. Remember I was the biggest Brooks supporter coming out of college. Go back and check out the TT Mock draft that yr. I picked him in the 2nd rd for the Cowboys. Also I had him in many of my mock drafts.

 

[steelbtexan]

Yes. 2nd opinions are routine. Teams even get them just to reassure players. 'We can't find anything' is not an acceptable answer.

So BOB needs to start telling guys to go get 2nd opinions?

What world do you live in?

The Team Docs should do this, maybe Gaine or even Cal.

 

[steelbtexan]

"It's not my job!"

I love this line

It literally isn't his job to tell players to get 2nd opinions.

 

[steelbtexan]

Lol, whenever you don't have a rebuttal you (falsely) whip out socialist.



I don't blame OB for the lack of diagnosis. I blame him for the mismanagement of a team asset. HEAD coaches get involved in these decisions all the time.

Care to point me to a specific time when a HC got involved in a players health issue and told him to go get a 2nd opinion? I'll wait.

 

[steelbtexan]

Ok this is getting beyond pathetic with you and maverick acting like this is some lazy worker issue. Anything to defend OB.

Did the game tape show a lazy player? Not in the least.

The player was undependable.

Best to get rid of undependable people in your life as quickly as you can. A life/Work philosophy of mine. You can agree or not but it's a philosophy that's worked quite well for me.

 

[infantrycak]

So BOB needs to start telling guys to go get 2nd opinions?

What world do you live in?

The Team Docs should do this, maybe Gaine or even Cal.

The real world where HCs are way more involved than your delusional one.

Of course OB does not need to be involved in every case. In fact only a small fraction like when one of your starters is ailing and the team docs have thrown their hands in the air.

IMO health & readiness falls more on the HC (they're the ones working the players out and deciding to out them on the field) but if you want throw RS under the bus too.

The player was undependable.

Not in games (and you don't play that well in games being lazy getting to them) which should have told them to look harder. Luckily to the Philly docs undependable doesn't equal lazy equal cut.

There is lazy involves here, just not by Brooks.

 

[TheKDog]

Is it BOB's job to be a medical expert?

The medical staff said Brooks was fine and Brooks looked like a slacker due to being sick. I didn't blame them for letting Brooks walk, particularly with the $$$$ Philly spent on him. Remember I was the biggest Brooks supporter coming out of college. Go back and check out the TT Mock draft that yr. I picked him in the 2nd rd for the Cowboys. Also I had him in many of my mock drafts.

Apparently team psychologist is his job

 

[steelbtexan]

The real world where HCs are way more involved than your delusional one.

Of course OB does not need to be involved in every case. In fact only a small fraction like when one of your starters is ailing and the team docs have thrown their hands in the air.

IMO health & readiness falls more on the HC (they're the ones working the players out and deciding to out them on the field) but if you want throw RS under the bus too.

In other words, you cant show me 1 time a HC has gotten involved with players getting a 2nd opinion.

 

[infantrycak]

In other words, you cant show me 1 time a HC has gotten involved with players getting a 2nd opinion.

Don't pretend that was a question.

 

[steelbtexan]

Don't pretend that was a question.

It most certainly was counselor.

One you apparently cant answer.

 

[infantrycak]

It most certainly was counselor.

One you apparently cant answer.

No it very plainly wasn't.

So BOB needs to start telling guys to go get 2nd opinions?

What world do you live in?

The Team Docs should do this, maybe Gaine or even Cal.

 

[Mr teX]

Doesn't take a medical degree to know vomiting isn't an attitude problem. Also doesn't take one to say 'go see another Doc, we'll get this figured out.'

You guys are looking pretty ridiculous acting like NFL medical staffs are supposed to be independent, total care, infallible, fonts of all medical knowledge.

The infallible is particularly funny. CnD & others have been complaining about them for a decade and now they're a total defense.

You’re a smart dude, so u know Vomiting could mean a whole host of things. Jeff Saturday, Mark Schlereth and other players have gone on record stating they weren’t right until they vomited before games. It meant nothing.

you also look ridiculous insinuating that Brooks needed BoB or anyone else to tell him to take charge of his own damn health. Brooks didn’t need anyone to tell him to go get a 2nd opinion, he could’ve done it himself if he didn’t feel right. And speaking as someone who has dealt with anxiety in the manner Brooks did....minus the puking, it starts with you yourself knowing what exactly is going on. Feeling nervous is one thing, uncontrollable fear is another and most folks don’t know where that line is drawn.

Aside from that, the nature of coaching players is to be somewhat abrasive and Brooks probably didn’t appreciate being handled as most players are typically handled when he knew deep down something was wrong with him——there’s your “bad attitude” right there. For BoB’s part all he sees and has to go on is the guy missing practice too often & the medical staff telling him nothing PHYSICALLY is wrong with him. You add in the stigma around mental health and the notion of football players as tough guys and it’s VERY easy to see how there was a misread of the situation by both parties.

So I wouldn’t credit the Philly med staff for anything. Seems like Brooks himself got down to the bottom of what was going on with him & when Philly was kicking the tires, he probably explained to them what the deal was. **** just as easily could’ve happened here .............if he had known what was going on with himself.

All of that said, he still chose to leave on his own.

 

[Mr teX]

No one is disregarding what cnd said. The doctors gave a bad diagnosis, that doesn't mean Brooks has a bad attitude. O'Brien has trouble getting along with people, this isn't the only example

Please. If you’re counting “swag boy” and his issues with BoB, you don’t have a leg to stand on considering that dude’s been released from 2-3 other teams since he left here.

 

[TheKDog]

You’re a smart dude, so u know Vomiting could mean a whole host of things. Jeff Saturday, Mark Schlereth and other players have gone on record stating they weren’t right until they vomited before games. It meant nothing.

you also look ridiculous insinuating that Brooks needed BoB or anyone else to tell him to take charge of his own damn health. Brooks didn’t need anyone to tell him to go get a 2nd opinion, he could’ve done it himself if he didn’t feel right. And speaking as someone who has dealt with anxiety in the manner Brooks did....minus the puking, it starts with you yourself knowing what exactly is going on. Feeling nervous is one thing, uncontrollable fear is another and most folks don’t know where that line is drawn.

Aside from that, the nature of coaching players is to be somewhat abrasive and Brooks probably didn’t appreciate being handled as most players are typically handled when he knew deep down something was wrong with him——there’s your “bad attitude” right there. For BoB’s part all he sees and has to go on is the guy missing practice too often & the medical staff telling him nothing PHYSICALLY is wrong with him. You add in the stigma around mental health and the notion of football players as tough guys and it’s VERY easy to see how there was a misread of the situation by both parties.

So I wouldn’t credit the Philly med staff for anything. Seems like Brooks himself got down to the bottom of what was going on with him & when Philly was kicking the tires, he probably explained to them what the deal was. **** just as easily could’ve happened here .............if he had known what was going on with himself.

All of that said, he still chose to leave on his own.

Yep O'Brien completely misread it.

 

[Mr teX]

The real world where HCs are way more involved than your delusional one.

Of course OB does not need to be involved in every case. In fact only a small fraction like when one of your starters is ailing and the team docs have thrown their hands in the air.

IMO health & readiness falls more on the HC (they're the ones working the players out and deciding to out them on the field) but if you want throw RS under the bus too.



Not in games (and you don't play that well in games being lazy getting to them) which should have told them to look harder. Luckily to the Philly docs undependable doesn't equal lazy equal cut.

There is lazy involves here, just not by Brooks.

LMAO

You’re absolutely smoking crack if u believe these HC’s are as involved with these players’ injuries like that.

 

[Mr teX]

Yep O'Brien completely misread it.

Both misread it genius..Brooks himself didn’t even know what was going on with him.

 

[TheKDog]

Both misread it genius..Brooks himself didn’t even know what was going on with him.

Yep and if O'Brien didn't treat him like crap because of it maybe we wouldn't have the worst OL in the league

 

[Max]

With all these guys, there may be better players available but if there's something these guys do particularly well that fits with the vision we have for what's needed to make our offense or defense work, then the guy they picked is the best guy. I don't see a reason to get overly optimistic or pessimistic about any of our acquisitions until we see how they're used and if the vision for the player fits in the greater scheme of things. I can't say BOB has given me much reason for optimism in regards to the greater scheme of things, but I've somehow managed to get my hopes up once again.

 

[Mr teX]

Yep and if O'Brien didn't treat him like crap because of it maybe we wouldn't have the worst OL in the league

Lol, BoB wouldn't even be here if Kubiak knew what to do with this supposed great o-line in 2013.

Get a clue troll. There have been enough players churned through here under BoB's tenure to draw a reasonable conclusion that Brooks wasn't treated any harsher than any of the other players. The fact that Brooks stated he felt this way speaks more to his altered mental state than it does how "clueless" BoB was.

 

[HaveMercy]

Deleted

 

[HaveMercy]

Love Doc, will never try to disparage him intentionally, but he's been wrong here before, maybe more than once. He wont admit it, and its understandable and nice to have a medical professional here to add an opinion, but you have to take EVERYTHING with a grain of salt. OBrien is a certified asshole, the way he handles the media, ex players, opposing coaches is sickening and impossible to defend for me.

I'm definitely not the MB police, but just stating my opinion, I find calling OB a "certified a..hole" rude and unnecessary and way over the top. To say he can be opinionated, rough around the edges, and difficult at times is probably closer to the truth. Attacking the man's character with a broad generalization is not something I want to read here.

 

[maverick512000]

I'm definitely not the MB police, but just stating my opinion, I find calling OB a "certified a..hole" rude and unnecessary and way over the top. To say he can be opinionated, rough around the edges, and difficult at times is probably closer to the truth. Attacking the man's character with a broad genersluztion is not something I want to read here.

Sorry to tell you but that's actually pretty tame compared to some of the things that get thrown around here.

 

[steelbtexan]

No it very plainly wasn't.

Who and how many?

 

[HaveMercy]

Lol, BoB wouldn't even be here if Kubiak knew what to do with this supposed great o-line in 2013.

Get a clue troll. There have been enough players churned through here under BoB's tenure to draw a reasonable conclusion that Brooks wasn't treated any harsher than any of the other players. The fact that Brooks stated he felt this way speaks more to his altered mental state than it does how "clueless" BoB was.

And as I'm sharing what I don't like here, referring to KDog with "Get a clue, troll" goes well beyond acceptable decorum for a peer to peer sharing of ideas on this MB. You've got a lot of good things to share, it's not helpful to muddy the waters with personal attacks. Just my opinion, of course.

 

[HaveMercy]

Sorry to tell you but that's actually pretty tame compared to some of the things that get thrown around here.

I've noticed. That kind of thing is called "argument by ridicule" and it's actually no argument at all.

 

[Uncle Rico]

I'm definitely not the MB police, but just stating my opinion, I find calling OB a "certified a..hole" rude and unnecessary and way over the top. To say he can be opinionated, rough around the edges, and difficult at times is probably closer to the truth. Attacking the man's character with a broad generalization is not something I want to read here.

Pfff What? How is it a generalization? He's been linked to saying Case Keenum would flame out, He's on video cussing out another coach after missed FGs, he constantly is an ASSHOLE to the media (do you get it BRIAAAANNN)

Difficult? Difficult? LMAO this board will go to any length to blindly follow The Crack. Too bad it isnt lemmings and we arent at a cliff. Welcome to ignore list! You can add me to yours and we will never have to cross paths again and your Texans Can Do No Wrong Experience will continue to be everything you thought it could be!

 

[HaveMercy]

Pfff What? How is it a generalization? He's been linked to saying Case Keenum would flame out, He's on video cussing out another coach after missed FGs, he constantly is an ASSHOLE to the media (do you get it BRIAAAANNN)

Difficult? Difficult? LMAO this board will go to any length to blindly follow The Crack. Too bad it isnt lemmings and we arent at a cliff. Welcome to ignore list! You can add me to yours and we will never have to cross paths again and your Texans Can Do No Wrong Experience will continue to be everything you thought it could be!

Uncle Rico, I've often enjoyed your comments and don't plan to put you on my ignore list. To repeat what I wrote in this thread just a few minutes ago, argument by ridicule is no argument at all. I'm not suggesting you change your opinion of OB. I am suggesting you find better ways of stating it.

 

[Speedy]

Is it BOB's job to be a medical expert?

Why not? He seems to want to wear all the hats, until something doesn't go right, then it's not his job.

 

[AngryNateFTW]

Wait to be a head coach in the NFL you also need to be a Dr too?

Why does OB bother with a medical staff then?

Just someone to have on the pay roll? Or maybe they have a job to do that OB trusts them to do?

Who knows.

This place is crazy.

 

[maverick512000]

Uncle Rico, I've often enjoyed your comments and don't plan to put you on my ignore list. To repeat what I wrote in this thread just a few minutes ago, argument by ridicule is no argument at all. I'm not suggesting you change your opinion of OB. I am suggesting you find better ways of stating it.

Don't bother, he's like a child that puts his fingers in his ears going "Not listening, can't hear you" anytime someone disagrees with him. In his case he uses the ignore list. Also he thinks anyone that doesn't declare the Texans the worst team in the NFL with every post to be BoB fan boy. I've never once seen him have a rational, adult discussion with someone. Pretty soon it always breaks down to personal attacks, accusations of being a fanboy and then being put on ignore. Its actually gets funny after awhile.

 

[HaveMercy]

Don't bother, he's like a child that puts his fingers in his ears going "Not listening, can't hear you" anytime someone disagrees with him. In his case he uses the ignore list. Also he thinks anyone that doesn't declare the Texans the worst team in the NFL with every post to be BoB fan boy. I've never once seen him have a rational, adult discussion with someone. Pretty soon it always breaks down to personal attacks, accusations of being a fanboy and then being put on ignore. Its actually gets funny after awhile.

Thank you.

 

[TheKDog]

Lol, BoB wouldn't even be here if Kubiak knew what to do with this supposed great o-line in 2013.

Get a clue troll. There have been enough players churned through here under BoB's tenure to draw a reasonable conclusion that Brooks wasn't treated any harsher than any of the other players. The fact that Brooks stated he felt this way speaks more to his altered mental state than it does how "clueless" BoB was.

I mean it was a top 10 ol. Just a fact

 

[TheKDog]

Wait to be a head coach in the NFL you also need to be a Dr too?

Why does OB bother with a medical staff then?

Just someone to have on the pay roll? Or maybe they have a job to do that OB trusts them to do?

Who knows.

This place is crazy.

He made himself the team psychologist. That's my problem, I don't blame him for the doctors

 

[HaveMercy]

I'm going to do something wild. I'm going to get back to the starting topic of this thread.

I like the Howard pick. Even at 1.23. That's based as much on gut instinct as real evidence, but until such time as he proves he can't learn and develop as a pro, I'm going to like this pick.

There, that's clear cut, back on track, and I didn't have to insult anyone or denigrate anyone's character to do it.

 

[TheKDog]

I'm going to do something wild. I'm going to get back to the starting topic of this thread.

I like the Howard pick. Even at 1.23. That's based as much on gut instinct as real evidence, but until such time as he proves he can't learn and develop as a pro, I'm going to like this pick.

There, that's clear cut, back on track, and I didn't have to insult anyone or denigrate anyone's character to do it.

I like him, I just think he was taken too high. Would have preferred trading up for dillard or just talking Taylor/top CB and then taking Howard or Scharping (or both) in the 2nd.

 

[HaveMercy]

I like him, I just think he was taken too high. Would have preferred trading up for dillard or just talking Taylor/top CB and then taking Howard or Scharping (or both) in the 2nd.

I think that's certainly understandable and well within reason...provided, of course, Howard would have there for our round 2 picks. Maybe so, maybe no, but it's obvious Gaine didn't want to roll the dice on that. I don't blame him. That was their biggest need and, rightly or wrongly, Howard was their top guy. I'm also jazzed that they have him and Scharping instead of just one or the other.

 

[Texas Jake]

I like him, I just think he was taken too high. Would have preferred trading up for dillard or just talking Taylor/top CB and then taking Howard or Scharping (or both) in the 2nd.

When they selected him, it felt like a reach because the "experts" had quite a few OTs ranked higher. But then again, where players were taken often didn't line up with the draft boards by the so called "experts". The more I read about him, the more I like the pick. Could they have got him in the second? That is hard to say. As the draft played out, those draft boards put out by the talking heads proved next to worthless and gave no true indication where a player would be picked. I am in a wait and see mode on this pick. As long as he becomes the answer at tackle I am good with it. I am also good with not trading up for Dillard. A third round pick to move up one slot seems too expensive. Howard is the better run blocker and actually may be the better fit. We won't know until it plays out on the field. Establishing a run game will do a lot take some heat off Watson. The defense can't pin their ears back if they have to focus on stopping the run.

 

[infantrycak]

That was their biggest need and, rightly or wrongly, Howard was their top guy. I'm also jazzed that they have him and Scharping instead of just one or the other.

We don't know Howard was top, we know he was their top T still available. And you wouldn't have to give up Scharping, it would have been one of Johnson or Scharping.

Actually if Howard isn't taken by us and does get picked before 2.54 it's likely one of the other Ts who was picked drops giving another option.

 

[steelbtexan]

Why not? He seems to want to wear all the hats, until something doesn't go right, then it's not his job.

SMH
Typical response

 

[Mr teX]

We don't know Howard was top, we know he was their top T still available. And you wouldn't have to give up Scharping, it would have been one of Johnson or Scharping.

Actually if Howard isn't taken by us and does get picked before 2.54 it's likely one of the other Ts who was picked drops giving another option.

not necessarily.

 

[maverick512000]

We don't know Howard was top, we know he was their top T still available. And you wouldn't have to give up Scharping, it would have been one of Johnson or Scharping.

Actually if Howard isn't taken by us and does get picked before 2.54 it's likely one of the other Ts who was picked drops giving another option.

So you got on my case for saying that he wouldn't be there at 54 but here you are saying that one of the others would be even though 3 OTs were taken in the first 6 picks of round 2. Also if Howard or, for the sake of argument Dillard, were their guys then why would they want to take whatever T happen to drop to them, assuming any did? Or do you believe they had rated all of them equally and didn't really care which one they got?

Personally I still would have preferred Jacob or Brown in the first and then used one of our seconds and our third to trade up to early second round and grab Howard there. If, however, that wasn't possible or they were afraid they would miss on Howard, who they at least had rated higher than the others still on the board, then they made the right choice to reach vs missing out altogether.

 

[DocBar]

There's the definition of circular definition.

Not really. There hasn't been a single peep from anyone other than supposed draft gurus saying Howard was a reach. It is entirely possible that the Texans had him rated higher than Dillard. Besides that, calling a player a reach at a particular draft position is all in the eye of the beholder. For instance, go back and see what I thought about Jamarcus Russell. I knew that he couldn't read a defense to save his life. The Raiders picked him at 1.1 and we didn't hear all the "the raiders reached for this player" talk because it was a popular pick with the aforementioned supposed draft gurus. Perceived value is just that: perceived. There is nothing factual about it, other than hindsight being 20/20.

We always hear them crow when a player is picked higher than they think but nary a peep when their guy turns up to be a bust.

I think you meant to say the definition of a circular argument. To do that just enable iterative calculations!!
Seriously though, no one but the Texans FO knows whether Howard was their guy from the start or if they panicked and settled for Howard.

 

[infantrycak]

not necessarily.

So you got on my case for saying that he wouldn't be there at 54 but here you are saying that one of the others would be even though 3 OTs were taken in the first 6 picks of round 2.

What part of "likely" is confusing? It's not a certainty as you asserted maverick.

Also if Howard or, for the sake of argument Dillard, were their guys then why would they want to take whatever T happen to drop to them, assuming any did? Or do you believe they had rated all of them equally and didn't really care which one they got?

Jesus, this is not difficult. Assume the same teams take OTs, doesn't matter which, add one more OT to the pot and one more drops thru unless another team takes one. Not certain but likely that the teams which passed on Scharping 41-53 also pass on whoever pops out.

Not really. There hasn't been a single peep from anyone other than supposed draft gurus saying Howard was a reach.

Wow, you mean other than people who talk about football nobody has mentioned it? Shocker.

 

[maverick512000]

What part of "likely" is confusing? It's not a certainty as you asserted maverick.



Jesus, this is not difficult. Assume the same teams take OTs, doesn't matter which, add one more OT to the pot and one more drops thru unless another team takes one. Not certain but likely that the teams which passed on Scharping 41-53 also pass on whoever pops out.



Wow, you mean other than people who talk about football nobody has mentioned it? Shocker.

Doesn’t answer the question of if Howard is their guy why should they sit back and hope that he drops to 54 or failing that be happy with whatever T does drop. Or, better question, why run the risk that no T worth their salt will drop?

 

[infantrycak]

Doesn’t answer the question of if Howard is their guy why should they sit back and hope that he drops to 54 or failing that be happy with whatever T does drop. Or, better question, why run the risk that no T worth their salt will drop?

Nobody suggested sit back.

Everyone loves their DB comparisons. They traded back to take him.

Or fine, you like them reaching for need. See reach isn't just defined by one position. It's the entire talent pool available and there were undoubtedly better and less risky players available.

 

[Mr teX]

Nobody suggested sit back.

Everyone loves their DB comparisons. They traded back to take him.

Or fine, you like them reaching for need. See reach isn't just defined by one position. It's the entire talent pool available and there were undoubtedly better and less risky players available.

according to who...you? Mel Kiper? Todd McShay? My oldest daughter?

Its been said ad nauseum in here by me and at least 1 other person. Unless you know the future, you simply can't assert the bolded.

 

[infantrycak]

according to who...you? Mel Kiper? Todd McShay? My oldest daughter?

Its been said ad nauseum in here by me and at least 1 other person. Unless you know the future, you simply can't assert the bolded.

Blah, uncertainty, blah.

Let's do it this way, the odds the Texans thought after the 1st 22 picks were done that the most talented, best player available out of everyone happened to be an OT are infinitesimal.

 

[Max]

Has anyone considered the possibility that Gaine forgot what year it was and was still thinking we didn't have a pick until the 3rd round? He was probably pleasantly surprised that Howard was still there for their selection.

 

[HaveMercy]

I just don't get why folks are so unhappy. The Texans got two OLinemen who should prove to be effective for a long time. Maybe it could have been worked a bit this way or that, but it doesn't change my opinion that they really helped themselves in their biggest area of dire need.