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2019 1.23 TYTUS HOWARD OT Alabama State

Are you happy with our first round pick?


  • Total voters
    75
  • Poll closed .
Just because he visits a lot of teams doesn't mean he won't be available in round 2. It could easily mean that teams expected him to be available in round 2.

Personally I think he was moving up the boards but 23 is too high
We will see in a couple of years. Every draft pick can be considered a reach or good value. It's all in the eye of the beholder.

I'm very much in "hide-and-watch" mode. I very much like the measurable's the Texans drafted for, we can disagree about the name on the draft card.
 
CnD posted this earlier in the thread.

Everyone knew about the Texans’ crying need at tackle. What was less clear was who the team would wind up with and when—with a lot of speculation that they’d trade up. Instead, the franchise sat tight, eyeing Alabama State’s Tytus Howard, who they had settled on three or four weeks earlier. They loved how he held up against top competition playing against Auburn and then in the Senior Bowl, and thought he might have the highest ceiling of the tackle group. And there’s also the versatility that Bill O’Brien prizes. While Andre Dillard is a left tackle who is a projection as an NFL run blocker, and Taylor is a right tackle, Houston believed Howard could play both sides. His NFL comp for them: Terron Armstead.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/26/nfl-draft-2019-second-third-round-news-rumors-updates

A lazy comparison,

The only comparison between Armstead and Howard are they both went to SWAC schools. Athletically there's no comparison between the 2. Armstead is a rare athlete, Howard, while a good athlete isn't a rare athlete.
 
Dillard was also a huge beneficiary of spending a week in Mobile.
On the other hand can't help but wonder if former Clemson LT Mitch Hyatt who failed to get drafted now regrets not attending the Senior Bowl ?

Did Hyatt decline an invite?
 
So clearly you've got a team saying they would have taken him?

As many teams as he visited and as high as several scouts were on him yeah someone would have taken him before 54. That's one of the few things that everyone I've read, for and against the pick, agrees on that he would not be there at 54. Now if you are asking if some team has come out and said "Yeah we would have drafted him in round X if the Texans hadn't" no of course they haven't and you know full well they wouldn't.
 
You can always trade down from 23 or up from 54.

If Howard is there guy I dont have a problem with reaching for him. If Dillard was their guy and they settled for Howard that's another discussion.

I agree and as I said before after thinking it over if it was me I would have taken Brown or Jacobs at 23 then traded up from 54 to get Howard. If, as you said, he was their guy though then they did the right thing by getting him at 23. Truth is we will never know for sure if they panicked and reached or had everything go as they planned and got their guy without spending extra draft capital. Now all we can do is hope he works out just like after every draft.
 
You can always trade down from 23 or up from 54.

If Howard is there guy I dont have a problem with reaching for him. If Dillard was their guy and they settled for Howard that's another discussion.

But why would they trade down or up if they were confident their guy was going to fall to them? See this is what you guys are missing in the equation.

If we are to believe that he was their guy all along then Gaine correctly & wisely stood pat and got his guy. But see you guys are so caught up in your own evaluations and the evaluations of others that it’s patently inconceivable that them drafting Howard is what they may have actually intended to do.

Now for the record, I believe that they liked Dillard & Howard equally. Both guys had their plus and minuses but given the choice of each, I still think they go Howard b/c of his upside.
 
But why would they trade down or up if they were confident their guy was going to fall to them? See this is what you guys are missing in the equation.

If we are to believe that he was their guy all along then Gaine correctly & wisely stood pat and got his guy. But see you guys are so caught up in your own evaluations and the evaluations of others that it’s patently inconceivable that them drafting Howard is what they may have actually intended to do.

Now for the record, I believe that they liked Dillard & Howard equally. Both guys had their plus and minuses but given the choice of each, I still think they go Howard b/c of his upside.

I'm not disagreeing with you.

If Howard was their guy they did the right thing by picking him at 23.
 
As many teams as he visited and as high as several scouts were on him yeah someone would have taken him before 54. That's one of the few things that everyone I've read, for and against the pick, agrees on that he would not be there at 54. Now if you are asking if some team has come out and said "Yeah we would have drafted him in round X if the Texans hadn't" no of course they haven't and you know full well they wouldn't.

You realize guys all thru the draft get interviewed? We interviewed T O'Shea Dugas who LZ didn't even bother to profile & T Paul Adams who LZ projected 6-7 and also went undrafted. That's 2 of the 12 Ts we interviewed, including Dillard.

You're blowing a fact in a vacuum into far too much. Interviews are not a round specific fexpression of interest.

Here is a supposedly complete list by the way.
 
You realize guys all thru the draft get interviewed? We interviewed T O'Shea Dugas who LZ didn't even bother to profile & T Paul Adams who LZ projected 6-7 and also went undrafted. That's 2 of the 12 Ts we interviewed, including Dillard.

You're blowing a fact in a vacuum into far too much. Interviews are not a round specific fexpression of interest.

Here is a supposedly complete list by the way.

So you're saying that Howard would be there at 54?
 
Available in round 2, yes. Available at 54 in round two, no.
Possibly, not definitive. I'm still waiting on a report stating there was anyone (other than the Texans) who would've even considered taking him in Round 1. IF he drops to Round 2 at all, the pick(s) required to "go up and get him" if needed is substantially lowered as well.

I think he's a decent pick...@47. I think he's a waste of capital @23.


If we are to believe that he was their guy all along then Gaine correctly & wisely stood pat and got his guy.
Here's the false analogy in your equation. If we're the ONLY ONES who valued him that highly, we can still pick him up later, and take the BPA off the board @23. That's not wise, that's squandering the capital you possess. By all means, show me the reports of the other teams that were hoping he'd fall to them prior to #54.
 
Possibly, not definitive. I'm still waiting on a report stating there was anyone (other than the Texans) who would've even considered taking him in Round 1. IF he drops to Round 2 at all, the pick(s) required to "go up and get him" if needed is substantially lowered as well.

I think he's a decent pick...@47. I think he's a waste of capital @23.


Here's the false analogy in your equation. If we're the ONLY ONES who valued him that highly, we can still pick him up later, and take the BPA off the board @23. That's not wise, that's squandering the capital you possess. By all means, show me the reports of the other teams that were hoping he'd fall to them prior to #54.

Sure, right after you show me every teams’ big board and where they had him valued.

Who said we were the only ones that valued him that high? The only teams you can say for sure didn’t value him that high are the teams that picked other tackles over him when given the chance...Cincy & Philly. Everyone else, you have no clue.
 
I have not seen anyone mention if he was an upside pick, drafting him in the first controls him for another team friendly year if he does boom. This matters if you get him late first versus trading up in second. I left the draft party fuming because it was too early in my view for the kid, but as I think about it, if they love him, get him in the first, control him another year, and that is maybe a good thing. The run on tackles happened very early day two so we would have had to pretty much give up what we would have gotten at pick 23 to move back in. I would have been more pissed with a 1st round RB. Those guys are very rare, and although Jacobs is good, he is not Barkley/Ezekiel good. And we have two first round receivers already, so no on 1st round WR
 
Just because he visits a lot of teams doesn't mean he won't be available in round 2. It could easily mean that teams expected him to be available in round 2.

Personally I think he was moving up the boards but 23 is too high
Obviously, the Texans had him rated at 1.23 and didn't want to risk him being taken prior to the Texans picking at 2.54 and them not wanting to spend draft capital to move up.
 
I have not seen anyone mention if he was an upside pick, drafting him in the first controls him for another team friendly year if he does boom. This matters if you get him late first versus trading up in second. I left the draft party fuming because it was too early in my view for the kid, but as I think about it, if they love him, get him in the first, control him another year, and that is maybe a good thing. The run on tackles happened very early day two so we would have had to pretty much give up what we would have gotten at pick 23 to move back in. I would have been more pissed with a 1st round RB. Those guys are very rare, and although Jacobs is good, he is not Barkley/Ezekiel good. And we have two first round receivers already, so no on 1st round WR

Trouble is one of those first round receivers is a big question mark health wise. When Fuller is healthy he is the perfect second for Hopkins, when he is healthy.
 
Oh no I can comprehend when people use double talk and non-committal vague comments that amount to nothing just fine.

Alright, 23 visits means jack sh!t about a player's value. Plain enough? Refusal to guess, or as in your case act like you know, is not being vague. We lack the information to know where Howard would have gone if not picked at 1.23.

Same situation existed after DB was picked and then it came out San Diego would have taken him with the next pick.

You need a new dictionary if you thought there was any doublespeak.
 
I wanted the Texans to trade down after seeing that Dillard was off the board. I believe we could have picked up Howard and an extra 3rd or a 4th. I don't mind the pick, I'm more bothered by not trading down to get Howard and an extra pick.
 
Sure, right after you show me every teams’ big board and where they had him valued.

Who said we were the only ones that valued him that high? The only teams you can say for sure didn’t value him that high are the teams that picked other tackles over him when given the chance...Cincy & Philly. Everyone else, you have no clue.
Consensus is we reached. We can say for sure no other teams traded up to get him either. (See how that works?) Onus is on you to show he wouldn't be there in the 2nd at all, or at #54. You're the one claiming Gaine acted wisely, not me.

Obviously, the Texans had him rated at 1.23 and didn't want to risk him being taken prior to the Texans picking at 2.54 and them not wanting to spend draft capital to move up.
We still don't really know where they had him rated, but we know they didn't want to wait until 54 for him. I'll grant it's entirely possible they had him as BPA @23, though it's much more likely they had him as best OT prospect for our needs @23.
 
Alright, 23 visits means jack sh!t about a player's value. Plain enough? Refusal to guess, or as in your case act like you know, is not being vague. We lack the information to know where Howard would have gone if not picked at 1.23.

Same situation existed after DB was picked and then it came out San Diego would have taken him with the next pick.

You need a new dictionary if you thought there was any doublespeak.

First no 23 visits does not mean "jack sh!t" if you think that fine, we disagree. Second if saying he wouldn't have been there is "acting like you know" then you didn't pay attention. In the first six picks of round two, three of them were OTs. Saying he wouldn't have been there is simple hindsight based on the rush on OTs.
 
Consensus is we reached. We can say for sure no other teams traded up to get him either. (See how that works?) Onus is on you to show he wouldn't be there in the 2nd at all, or at #54. You're the one claiming Gaine acted wisely, not me.

We still don't really know where they had him rated, but we know they didn't want to wait until 54 for him. I'll grant it's entirely possible they had him as BPA @23, though it's much more likely they had him as best OT prospect for our needs @23.


No sir. Onus is on you to show & prove he wouldn't have gone off the board with the next pick to someone else if the Texans didn't take him @ 23 & decided to move down to get more "value".....which obviously you can't do. Of course neither can I though.

What we DO know however is that the next tackle off the board wasn't one of these supposed better value picks in Jawaan Taylor, Cody Ford or Greg Little...all guys that were in most draftnik mock's top 5 tackle prospects. No, the next tackle prospect off the board was another guy consistently ranked just outside of that top 5 in Caleb McGary. LZ is the only guy i saw that had him in his top 5.......& even he was saying that the combine revealed he had short arms so..he's probably gonna slide out of his. Most everyone else he was the 6th or 7th or worse best tackle.
 
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Just for the sake of discussion...

If he's a bust then he's a bust but if he does compare to Armstead and is a premiere LT after year 2, who is really gonna worry about what pick we took him?

If he's a bust he would have been a bust at 23 or 54 (or 40's if we traded up)

He's their guy and they didn't wanna risk losing him. Can't blame them for that. They identified who they wanted and if he doesn't pan out then coaches jobs are on the line.
 
No sir. Onus is on you to show & prove he wouldn't have gone off the board with the next pick to someone else if the Texans didn't take him @ 23 & decided to move down to get more "value".....which obviously you can't do. Of course neither can I though.

What we DO know however is that the next tackle off the board wasn't one of these supposed better value picks in Jawaan Taylor, Cody Ford or Greg Little...all guys that were in most draftnik mock's top 5 tackle prospects. No, the next tackle prospect off the board was another guy consistently ranked just outside of that top 5 in Caleb McGary. LZ is the only guy i saw that had him in his top 5.......& even he was saying that the combine revealed he had short arms so..he's probably gonna slide out of his. Most everyone else he was the 6th or 7th or worse best tackle.
It is possible Philly may have rated Howard high too but not at 25 and Texans pick again before they do at 56, so may not have wanted to risk Texans going Dillard at 23 and Howard at 54 or 55.
 
Consensus is we reached. We can say for sure no other teams traded up to get him either. (See how that works?) Onus is on you to show he wouldn't be there in the 2nd at all, or at #54. You're the one claiming Gaine acted wisely, not me.

We still don't really know where they had him rated, but we know they didn't want to wait until 54 for him. I'll grant it's entirely possible they had him as BPA @23, though it's much more likely they had him as best OT prospect for our needs @23.

No sir. Onus is on you to show & prove he wouldn't have gone off the board with the next pick to someone else if the Texans didn't take him @ 23 & decided to move down to get more "value".....which obviously you can't do. Of course neither can I though.

What we DO know however is that the next tackle off the board wasn't one of these supposed better value picks in Jawaan Taylor, Cody Ford or Greg Little...all guys that were in most draftnik mock's top 5 tackle prospects. No, the next tackle prospect off the board was another guy consistently ranked just outside of that top 5 in Caleb McGary. LZ is the only guy i saw that had him in his top 5.......& even he was saying that the combine revealed he had short arms so..he's probably gonna slide out of his. Most everyone else he was the 6th or 7th or worse best tackle.

The onus is not on anyone on this board to prove anything because none of us had any say in the matter. Nobody knows if Gaines acted wisely or not, not this board, not the "experts", not even Gaines himself and we won't know till after we have seen Howard on the field for at least half a season. This is the case with any player. If Howard turns into an all pro LT that we have on a rookie contract for 5 years then Gaines got a steal at 23. If Howard is a bust or can't get it together before there is a permanent Watson shaped indent on the ground then Gaines was a fool. Ultimately no matter what happens someone will get to say "I told you so" but its like drawing a royal flush at the poker table and then saying you were so much smarter than the other players, its all an educated guess with a lot of luckt.
 
Not sure what would be worse in terms of stupidity, passing up a trade offer to move up or having Howard higher than Dillard

Maybe not higher, probably a better fit. If Dillard made it to 23 & the Texans still picked Howard, I could see going down that rabbit hole. But he wasn't so it's a moot point
 
The onus is not on anyone on this board to prove anything because none of us had any say in the matter. Nobody knows if Gaines acted wisely or not, not this board, not the "experts", not even Gaines himself and we won't know till after we have seen Howard on the field for at least half a season. This is the case with any player. If Howard turns into an all pro LT that we have on a rookie contract for 5 years then Gaines got a steal at 23. If Howard is a bust or can't get it together before there is a permanent Watson shaped indent on the ground then Gaines was a fool. Ultimately no matter what happens someone will get to say "I told you so" but its like drawing a royal flush at the poker table and then saying you were so much smarter than the other players, its all an educated guess with a lot of luckt.

It's player evaluation, not luck.
 
They may have been trying to induce a trade war between us and Philly.
Baltimore is the only winner there.

This is exactly what happened and I reported it 12 hours after our pick. Andre Dillard was the top Tackle on our board. Texans were on the phone with Baltimore at the exact same time Philly was. If we had a 4th rounder or were willing to give up our 2020 3rd, the trade would of been completed.
 
There is also a considerable amount of luck involved as well.
An interesting rather detailed piece addressing this subject:

First Round Picks Only Have a 53% Success Rate And Other Troubling Draft Thoughts
by Vincent Richardson | Mar 27, 2018 |

With the Scout Camp series coming to it’s end, I thought it might be interesting to take a look at the method of evaluation and the cause of the variations between much of what has been written here and what is has been written on other draft sites. The purpose of this article is to explain the way in which I go about evaluating players, my thoughts on the evaluation of college players in general and where that differs from other analysts.

It will be rather long, so strap in.

The Harsh Truths
Scouting is not a science. It’s not even close. There are very few things that can be said to approach actual known entities with almost everything being an estimate of wildly varying accuracy; as a result, almost every statement made regarding the draft will be some shade of wrong. So why even bother?

THE REST OF THE STORY
 
This is exactly what happened and I reported it 12 hours after our pick. Andre Dillard was the top Tackle on our board. Texans were on the phone with Baltimore at the exact same time Philly was. If we had a 4th rounder or were willing to give up our 2020 3rd, the trade would of been completed.

And some say the Texans passed on Dillard and preferred Howard instead. I believe that.

If they really wanted Dillard they could have gotten him. That's obvious.

So unless someone here was in the draft room with Gaine all we have are opinions that say otherwise.

Texans owe no one an apology or explanation for their draft choices. Their jobs depend on them being right more often than not.

Bring on the season.

:coffee:
 
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And some say the Texans passed on Dillard and preferred Howard instead. I believe that.

If they really wanted Dillard they could have gotten him. That's obvious.

So unless someone here was in the draft room with Gaine all we have are opinions that say otherwise.

Texans owe no one an apology or explanation for their draft choices. Their jobs depend on them being right more often than not.

Bring on the season.

:coffee:
Yep. BG made it very clear he was willing to trade up or down but his philosophy is to build through the draft. He very obviously was content with taking Howard at 23. Let’s see how Howard turns out. And let’s see how the saved draft choice turns out. It’s easy to throw out trade up scenarios without knowing the true price. BG got his player and saved a draft choice(s).
 
This is exactly what happened and I reported it 12 hours after our pick. Andre Dillard was the top Tackle on our board. Texans were on the phone with Baltimore at the exact same time Philly was. If we had a 4th rounder or were willing to give up our 2020 3rd, the trade would of been completed.
Not that McClain is always correct, but he reports that the trade offer with Baltimore was for a 2019 3rd.

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Philly took a chance on him and it paid off. That happens in the NFL just like taking a chance and it being a bust does. When they signed him the Philly fans were not happy about it and many were asking why they were throwing money at the Texans cast offs. In hindsight Philly looks like NFL geniuses and the Texans idiots, at the time the reverse was true.

So you're saying he didn't play well his last year here? Do you know what his grades were?
 
Not that McClain is always correct, but he reports that the trade offer with Baltimore was for a 2019 3rd.

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So how many of these clubhouse lawyers would have howled if we traded up one spot by giving up a third rounder? And if we traded up sooner, how much sooner? Price would be higher and another dynamic would be involved...would we pick a T or some other available player with that higher pick? If these guys were fairly equal on their board and they wanted a T they made the correct choice.
 
No sir. Onus is on you to show & prove he wouldn't have gone off the board with the next pick to someone else if the Texans didn't take him @ 23 & decided to move down to get more "value".....which obviously you can't do. Of course neither can I though.

What we DO know however is that the next tackle off the board wasn't one of these supposed better value picks in Jawaan Taylor, Cody Ford or Greg Little...all guys that were in most draftnik mock's top 5 tackle prospects. No, the next tackle prospect off the board was another guy consistently ranked just outside of that top 5 in Caleb McGary. LZ is the only guy i saw that had him in his top 5.......& even he was saying that the combine revealed he had short arms so..he's probably gonna slide out of his. Most everyone else he was the 6th or 7th or worse best tackle.
Well you are correct but we don’t need proof that another team would pick him up before 54. BG believed he would be gone by then and that is all that matters.
 
So how many of these clubhouse lawyers would have howled if we traded up one spot by giving up a third rounder? And if we traded up sooner, how much sooner? Price would be higher and another dynamic would be involved...would we pick a T or some other available player with that higher pick? If these guys were fairly equal on their board and they wanted a T they made the correct choice.

People here loved using a 4th for DT and using a 2nd to get rid of osweiler. Not to mention all the picks for Nix and Strong.

If anything people are too positive
 
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