yes, you are hilarious. Do you deny that Welker was a huge part of that offense?
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yes, you are hilarious. Do you deny that Welker was a huge part of that offense?
You're a spin doctor. Are you in politics?
edit: I should know better than to feed the troll... ya got me
Texansballer74
The Marine
26 TDS to only 10 interceptions add in well over 4400 yards. And you're complaining. Wow especially with that atrocious offensive line and terrible play calling by Obrien. Dude get off the weed, in my Steven A voice
What process did they use?
Uncle Rico
Ur apology should be as loud as Ur disrespect was
Duck, Duck, Goose.
Are you denying BO'bs offenses suck?
Personally I think he'd be fine if someone else built & installed an offense then he just call the plays. Like he did when he took over the already established NE offense.
But since he has left NE he has not been able to install a viable (don't need a magic man at QB) offense.
Preselection followed by sham Rooney rule interview
So the hiring an outside firm to vette all candidates was a sham?
Speedy
Former Yeller Dweller
Obriens record after five years as a NFL head coach 42 - 38
Bill Belichicks record after five years as an NFL head coach 36 -44
BB went to a better run franchise and found success.
Am I being too impatient? Is there a lesson to be learned here?
Is steelb onto something?
And won as many playoff games in 1 trip has OB has in 3.
I think so. Consultants sometimes just tell people what they want to hear. Who were the candidates?
As long as you "think so"
"Only three interviewees are known: O'Brien, new Tampa Bay coach Lovie Smith and Texans defensive coordinator Wade Phillips, who served as interim head coach for the last three games of the season."
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/10237575/houston-texans-introduce-new-coach-bill-obrien
Was an executive search company necessary for that?
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Never mind he could only get them there 1 time though....
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
What logic ?
Is that what you take from reading the post comparing the two coaches beginning records?
Geez.
Obriens record after five years as a NFL head coach 42 - 38
Bill Belichicks record after five years as an NFL head coach 36 -44
BB went to a better run franchise and found success.
Am I being too impatient? Is there a lesson to be learned here?
Is steelb onto something?
Unfortunately, there is not any lesson to be learned here.
- In four seasons with Denver, John Fox was 64-46 and got fired
- In his first 5 seasons with the Browns, Marty Schottenheimer went 71-44 and still got fired
- In 5 seasons with the Chargers, Schottenheimer went 80-47 and had a 14-2 record and still got fired
- In 3 seasons with Buffalo, Wade Phillips went 29-19 and got fired
- In 4 seasons with Dallas, Phillips went 34-22 and got fired
Maybe if there is a lesson to be learned is that with parity and the modern NFL, most coaches are similar to Jeff Fisher, Fox, Denny Green, Ken Whisenhunt, Schottenheimer and Phillips than they are to Belichick. If you spend your time waiting for your coach to grow into the next Belichick or mimicking the Patriots, you miss on talented coaches like a Pederson, McVay, Nagy and Reich.
Texansballer74
The Marine
This isn't 1990 anymore. You're touting 26 tds passes in a 16 game season as something that is impressive? When you have the best reciever on the planet to throw to, at that? lol
There are over a dozen quarterbacks in the league with superior numbers to Deshaun Watson. Every team in the NFL has personnel issues somewhere; the Texans are not special in that regard. If your waiting for perfect circumstances you'll be waiting a long time. Quit making excuses and take off the blinders, homer. In 2019, he's a good quarterback. Definitely not sniffing great or elite.
Mr teX
Hall of Fame
Lies. Rushing and Passing.....Only a few QBs in the league have outright better TOTAL numbers than DW4’s. Only dumbasses like you would try to downplay that as it pertains to being an elite fantasy player...which is what the article was talking about.
But even if we’re not talking fantasy, he’s still elite when you consider his total numbers & when you also consider how NFL pundits went bonkers about the season Baker Mayfield had as a rookie with only 29 TD’s, I’d say 31 total TD’s in his 1st full season 1 year removed from his rookie year still means a little something in this league.
Not every team has the main offensive coach completely in over his head
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Just wondering but why do you keep beating this dead horse? I mean every single thread and almost every post is the same thing. We get it, you don’t like O’Brien, it’s like if you say it enough Cal will one day visit this forum and think “You know what, these random people on the internet are right, how could I have not seen it. I’ll fire him today.”
It’s not happening and at this point you’re reaching troll level with the broken record. Sad part is when you are not going on and on about your hate for all things connected to BoB you actually make some great points. Still think your break down of how getting Trent Brown would have hurt us salary cap wise was one of the best explanations on here about why it was a bad idea.
I mean it’s a semi-free country and you’re welcome to post whatever you want, within site guidelines, but I would think even you are getting tired of it by now.
Fair enough it's beaten too death.
To stay off obrien we should point out that Watson is doing this with one of the worst pass protecting ols
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
I think most here have already formed their opinion of Obrien. I know I have.
I was only raising the possibility that the organization itself may play a part in the success and or failure of a coach. That's all. Maybe the newbies you named were hired into better situations.
Then there is always the chance that a guy can be his own worse enemy.
Had nothing to do with Kdog buying lottery tickets.
(:whooshing sound)I think most here have already formed their opinion of Obrien. I know I have.
I was only raising the possibility that the organization itself may play a part in the success and or failure of a coach. That's all. Maybe the newbies you named were hired into better situations.
Then there is always the chance that a guy can be his own worse enemy.
Had nothing to do with Kdog buying lottery tickets.
Yes I think we need to look at the context of their success or failure.
Did belichick have control of personnel? Did he have bad talent ? Was the team screwed by the cap?
Or maybe he did a bad job and getting fired motivated him to become a better coach.
Which is why they should've signed Brown and drafted Dillard. Even if that meant losing Clowney.
Nope, he was saddled with an impossible situation, an owner that was moving the team, a fanbase that was so pissed about it that there were death threats and the players couldn't wait to get out of Cleveland by the end of that yr.
Should have gotten Dillard. But Trent brown was too expensive for what he provides and then you can't spend in other areas
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
Dillard still hasn’t impressed me, I don’t think he or Howard were first round worthy, early second yeah but not first. They just happen to be getting drafted in a year that was weak on OTs, in both draft and F/A, with lots of teams needing them.
As far as Brown goes yeah he had a good game in the SB but he was average the rest of the year and that was playing in front of Brady, who makes his linemen look better than they are no matter who it is, and being coached by a HoF level O line coach.
You bring him here with a rookie QB that has trouble reading blitz’s, likes to run away from his linemen and then a crap coach in Devlin and there is no way he has the same success he had in NE and he only had average success there.
At a average or above average price tag that’s still worth it, to make him the highest paid OT in history, time to fold on that hand.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
You are right but Bellichick thought he was going to Baltimore as well. That’s what he had been told so I don’t think he was phoning it in. I think it a combination of the two, the situation was bad but BB was surprised that he took part of the fall for it. I also think that’s part of what has made him so cut throat. He completely screwed over the Jets and even in NE he has had no loyalty to anyone not named Brady.
I'm ok with protecting Watson 1st and foremost and spending less elsewhere. We just have different philosophies. Where did the Pats spend most of the post season running the ball?
Cant really blame him.
Brown also played well in San Fran.
Tell me do you think a lineup of Dillard/Rankin/Marin/Fulton/Brown is better than what will be protecting Watson next yr? If it costs you Clowney so be it.
Mangler
Toro de España
Clowney for who? Cause if you’re saying Clowney for Trent Brown I’ll just assume you’re doing hard drugs...
It's all about protecting Watson.
Do you value Watson's health and a better run game more than you value Clowney and his microfractured knee?
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
It’s not about Clowney, we have Clowney on the franchise tag this year and all signs point to that’s how the Texans are going to play it out. It’s even possible they’ve told him they’re not doing any big contracts till they get a new GM. I’m not even that high on Clowney so no I really don’t care if we lose him as long as we get something out of it.
To your question frankly no I don’t think that line up would really be better. Not for the price of what it would have cost us.
Dillard has got major red flags, no matter what the hype machine says, and I think Brown is going to get exposed when he’s not protecting the GOAT. He played decent at SF and I know what Miller said but that was one throw away comment almost in a vacuum. Miller made that comment after inviting Brown to some summit training camp thing. They lined up against each other for fun and that’s when Miller made his comment. Hell of a lot of difference between when you are lined up for fun and when you are lined up with the game on the line. You can’t tell me in that situation Miller was going all out like he would in a game.
Edit: Also Dillard is not going to give us a better run game. If anything a run game will regress with him until he gets some major fundamental coaching. He’s never blocked for a run game in his career.
Agree to disagree, I will take guys like Miller's opinions over yours. No offense.
Run blocking is the easiest thing to learn. You have to have great athleticism to play at a high level in the NFL. If you get good coaching a guy with this talent level should do well for a long time. At he very least you would have a good pass protecting LT as a rookie. Something Watson has never had before.
Giving an average player elite money isn't how to build a winner imo.
There are other options besides just paying whoever happens to be a free agent
A 25 yr old FA whose game is improving.
Lets see how the Raiders OL look and Brown in particular before we pass judgement. Even though I know some on here will downplay Brown even if the plays well.
One things for sure Gruden/Mayock invested in their offense in general in the last 2 yrs. OL Miller/Brown/Incognito
This yr skill positions A. Brown/Williams/Grant/Nelson/Renfro/Jacobs and even though he got hurt Crowell. It will be very interesting to see how the Raiders lokk next season and especially in 2 yrs when the get to Vegas they should be true contenders. There should be no more excuses for Carr next yr.
- I wish the Texans org would make the kind of commitment to give Watson his best chance to succeed like Gruden/Mayock have given Carr. If Carr doesn't succeed you can bet on the Raiders trading up to do whatever it takes to get Tua/Fromm/Herbert so they have a fresh start when they get to Vegas.
maverick512000
Hall of Fame
And there in lies the problem, do I think Dillard will do well, yes I do but with the Eagles, not with us. With the Eagles he has a good O line coach and maybe even a year to sit behind their current starter. With us he would have Devlin and would be the starter. Player maybe the same, the situation is different.
My point about Miller is that you can’t take it as gospel because he said it after a friendly work out and that was the only time he had lined up across from him. If he had said it after a hard fought game where he lined up across from him all four quarters I would put more weight behind it. It’s easy to say something nice about a guy when it’s all in fun.
Texansballer74
The Marine
I really don't give two skits about the Browns and Raiders. Both franchises are not good examples to use any freaking ways. They finally made some moves after so many freaking years of garbage.
This is how I look at it.
Not the value of Clowney VS _insert any protection for Watson__
Do I think Clowney is more valuable than most Oline that we could get.
Absolutely. However Clowney is NOT more valuable than a protected Watson playing at full potential. That's just my worthless opinion though.
Any Oline that we could get would most certainly be over paid, but that's why you dont mortgage the entire future to a long term contract.
IF your project linemen you took in the draft are your future... you just need to worry about a season or two. Perfect for an over paid, but position of necessity.
As far as Clowney goes, I doubt he is going to be giving us 100% even if we keep him.
I'd rather trade for a position of current need giving us 100% and over pay for the short term to protect our QB than risk him getting injured starting our search for a QB all over again, just cause we wanted to keep a valuable defensive player giving us 70-80% with health and contract concerns.
However if we are only going to pretend to give a crap about protecting our QB, why not just sign Kaepernick, let him take the hits and not waste or ruin more talented mens careers any more.
It's why we cant have nice things.
dream_team
Hall of Fame
Excellent point. If you’re using the Raiders & Browns to backup your argument, time to re-think your argument.
They pretty much have. You just don't like who the Texans chose. Remember all that noise you were making about the Vikings completely rebuilding their OL in one offseason because they had a good year in 2017. 2018 not so much. They are still looking to fix the OL. You build a team through the draft. "Winning" in the offseason should mean a successful draft class and a FA or 2 for depth, imo. If a FA player is all that and a bag of chips, a franchise will usually find a way to keep them. The ridiculous number of top 100 players that were moved this offseason is, by far, an outlier and 2 teams tired of dealing with prima donna cancer's in the locker room. Solder and Norwell didn't add much of anything to the Giants or Jags. Is your long range plan for the Texans to sign every "top" FA so that the next season they can draft in the top 7 so they can draft that FA's replacement? Good plan!!!
badboy
Hall of Fame
If we are going to talk about today's players then we need to talk about today's coaching and not necessarily what teams have done years ago or for years in a row. At the end of 2019 we may look back and say the Raiders and Browns were the same old same old but both teams have made some real good moves this offseason as you say.
The other risk is just because you pay Brown $66 million doesn't mean he'll be good or even average. We've seen many free agent signings come over and look mediocre (Jeff Allen, Zach Fulton). Sure he could become a pro bowler but he hasn't made one yet. He was a 7th round pick. IMO the big money should be reserved for the Watts and Clowneys and Watson, guys you know will be awesome if healthy, not on guys you hope solve a problem because the team doesn't know how to properly address it.
badboy
Hall of Fame
Just to clarify New England did not let Trent Brown leave because he was a prima donna. It was strictly a salary cap issue. they had almost no money to spend towards the huge contract he ended up with. IMO a trade up to get Dillard would mean he has to start by game 3. I know I'm The Lonesome Cowboy here but Dillard is not an automatic starter over Davenport. Of the two, Howard would be my preference to sit behind Davenport and learn. I also think Howard like Davenport is more likely to progress in this offense with Devlin as our coach. I also have nothing against signing free-agent starters and then drafting there replacement. If the cap allows that would be the way to go in most scenarios. There are few college players that should be day 1 starters. Despite that some are forced to.They pretty much have. You just don't like who the Texans chose. Remember all that noise you were making about the Vikings completely rebuilding their OL in one offseason because they had a good year in 2017. 2018 not so much. They are still looking to fix the OL. You build a team through the draft. "Winning" in the offseason should mean a successful draft class and a FA or 2 for depth, imo. If a FA player is all that and a bag of chips, a franchise will usually find a way to keep them. The ridiculous number of top 100 players that were moved this offseason is, by far, an outlier and 2 teams tired of dealing with prima donna cancer's in the locker room. Solder and Norwell didn't add much of anything to the Giants or Jags. Is your long range plan for the Texans to sign every "top" FA so that the next season they can draft in the top 7 so they can draft that FA's replacement? Good plan!!!
badboy
Hall of Fame
To be fair K-Dog, Trent Brown only had one year starting at left tackle. Just because you spend a high round draft pick does not mean that player will be a future pro bowler either. With draftees or free agents you go with the best you can get and phope it works out.
Well, I agree. There is no guarantee. That's why paying big money for other team's free agents is so risky. Of course draft picks can also bust, we know that very well. But at least players on rookie contracts are pretty cheap for several years, and then the team has the option of extending them.
If Dillard doesn't work out, it sucks but it's not going to kill the team, and if Dillard does work out you have a cheap starting LT for a long time. A $66 million bust is a lot more harmful. And even if Trent Brown is decent you're not getting much excess value above $66 million.
Everyone talks about how the Texans should go for it while Watson is on a cheap rookie deal because that gives us more money to spend elsewhere. Well that logic applies to every other position. A cheap LT playing at a pro bowl level also provides excellent value and savings we can spend elsewhere.
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