Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
so you want Dunta to walk but want to give OD, a player coming off a major knee injury, a new contract.
that makes a whooooole lot of sense. i hope you are our next GM.
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Dunta Robinson, Texans to Part Ways
- Thread starter indiantexan
- Start date
so you want Dunta to walk but want to give OD, a player coming off a major knee injury, a new contract.
that makes a whooooole lot of sense. i hope you are our next GM.
Shaft75
All Pro
You said you got rid of the tickets out of spite. Now it's life. C'mon man it's okay, be truthfull with us.
As for me... I'm in the red Dre jersey in the middle, with blue sleeves, and a BUD LIGHT. And those, sir, are my seats.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
You said you got rid of the tickets out of spite. Now it's life. C'mon man it's okay, be truthfull with us.
As for me... I'm in the red Dre jersey in the middle, with blue sleeves, and a miller lite. And those, sir, are my seats.
Damn man! You get uglier by the season!!
BTW, that looks like a Bud Light.
Shaft75
All Pro
You acted as if you were taking some sort of stand, but now it's a fatherly thing. Look, I get it with the fatherly thing. But why act like it's something it's not?
JCTexan
Hall of Fame
So do you think Dunta is worth over 10 Million a year? Do you consider him to be a top 5 or 10 CB? If you don't it's a mute point because that's what the Texans would have to pay him for Dunta to stay with them. I personally don't think he's a top 10 Corner and wouldn't pay him as one.
Shaft75
All Pro
Corrected. And, you know who the man is.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
if they were showing more commitment to winning, there would be more interest in the games by my friends and family. my brother and I are hardcore, we are there most Sundays, but I just couldn't rationalize keeping the other two when they went to waste or were sold for next to nothing for most games.
the interest has waned in the product, at least with my peeps. it was worth it having the extra tickets when people wanted to go but not so much anymore. then when you couple family obligations/expenses, it just didnt make much sense.
and you know what, interest has waned because I couldn't even find a Texans fan who wanted to buy the PSL. I had to find a guy from Boston who is moving here and he just loves the NFL. I got very few serious inquiries from Texans fans. Is some of that the economy's fault? sure it is. but its also part and parcel of McNair not being committed to winning and, at least to me, more interested in his bottom line.
I gotta say props to you for the good seats. You are about 14 rows ahead of us. Always wanted to sit front row but it was just too damn expensive even back in 2001 when the economy was better and PSLs became available....and at least you put your money where your mouth is. Oh, and we both want to win. I am not saying I don't think you want the Texans to win, I just think the Texans are trying to nickel and dime it when the NFL, and its owners, are making huge $$
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Maybe the novelty of having something new has worn off of your peeps. That's what separates the die-hard fans who pass down tickets from generation to generation from those that like shiny new things.
*EDIT*
Not there's anything wrong with that.
*EDIT*
Not there's anything wrong with that.
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
We lost a starting CB, and now he has to be replaced. It's the NFL, this happens all the time to teams. I'm glad he's gone, but it wouldn't have upset me that greatly if he stayed, because he can play the position. Perhaps not as good as we want, but he can play the position. So now there's another hole to fill if the off season. I still say the Texans will be in better shape in 2010 than they were in 2009 with or without Dunta.
During the Kubiac era we've always had a problem with the defensive backfield, looks like that's not gonna change anytime soon. They had BETTER get Pollard locked up, that's for damn sure.
During the Kubiac era we've always had a problem with the defensive backfield, looks like that's not gonna change anytime soon. They had BETTER get Pollard locked up, that's for damn sure.
I'm sort of like Thorn. I see legit reasons for both sides. D.Rob is not worth the money you'd have to pay him to stay, but it does suck to lose our best CB, even if that's not saying much.
But, it is what it is. I will wait to see 1) how the Texans fill the spot, 2) how the 2010 season turns out, and 3) how D.Rob performs in a new uni.
Not much I can do until then, because it's all speculation.
But, it is what it is. I will wait to see 1) how the Texans fill the spot, 2) how the 2010 season turns out, and 3) how D.Rob performs in a new uni.
Not much I can do until then, because it's all speculation.
Shaft75
All Pro
You got that right.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
When he tests the market I would not be surprised to see him back negotiating with the Texans for a one year deal at market prices + a small premium. Who is going to give him a long term deal (including bonus money up front) with all of the uncertainty in the CBA and his full recovery from the injury?
I bet he wanted a long term deal here (as he should be trying to get), and the Texans saw his value in between the franchise tag amount and the average salary at the position, but were willing to give it for one or two years. If they were renegotiating with him, but not willing to employ the franchise tag they still see value in him - it is just not in line with the player's perceived value of himself.
Front offices have a lot of leverage right now. I really do not think this has been closed.
I bet he wanted a long term deal here (as he should be trying to get), and the Texans saw his value in between the franchise tag amount and the average salary at the position, but were willing to give it for one or two years. If they were renegotiating with him, but not willing to employ the franchise tag they still see value in him - it is just not in line with the player's perceived value of himself.
Front offices have a lot of leverage right now. I really do not think this has been closed.
Wolf
100% Texan
I would like to see all the cards on the table before I think Bob doesn't have a commitment to win ..
Was D-Rob worth 10 plus million . I would be surprised to see anyone say he was worth that with a straight face
Hell for 10 plus million, he should be able to shut down half the field down ..
I know it wasn't his fault for getting paid like that, but lets see what happens
Was D-Rob worth 10 plus million . I would be surprised to see anyone say he was worth that with a straight face
Hell for 10 plus million, he should be able to shut down half the field down ..
I know it wasn't his fault for getting paid like that, but lets see what happens
imatexan
All Pro
It might not be closed but I have a feeling Dunta will get good money, the CB market is not very strong.
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
He is a FA in an uncommon market of 23 teams (not including the Texans and the restricted playoff teams). If I were laying money down, I would bet he signs elsewhere. However, testing the market has a way of making folks wise up pretty quick.
Agreed.
But in this mkt, the Pats would be kinda crazy to let him get away.
But then, they dumped Richard Seymour last year and I thought that was a bit nuts too.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
Maybe the novelty of having something new has worn off of your peeps. That's what separates the die-hard fans who pass down tickets from generation to generation from those that like shiny new things.
*EDIT*
Not there's anything wrong with that.
as you probably surmise, a lot of my crew are Texas grads and my dad is Illini grad who adopted Texas when I went to school at Austin, and the whole Derrick Johnson/Travis Johnson & Carr/VY debacles really pissed some of them off especially when it blew up in our faces. I think that has more to do with some of the apathy than the newness factor. My brother (Baylor) and I (Texas) are hardcore through and through and we will be there until the day we die, win or lose. I will just be a lot happier if we win. Doubt I am alone in that regard.
A lot of good points in this thread though, on both sides. I can see the logic of dropping Dunta, but only if you use the money you saved to help bring in someone to help another aspect of the team. I guess that is why I am sore about this. I have never been a huge Dunta guy but he is our best corner. Losing him WILL hurt us...how much is the 12million dollar question. I just don't trust McNair to spend the money he saved on bringing someone in. Hope he proves me wrong.
Combine starts next week. Can't freaking wait to see who shines and who blows it.
fwiw - would anyone be willing to part with their 1st Rounder for DeAngelo Williams even when we are such a pass-oriented offense.
T
edo783
Hall of Fame
D-Rob's leaving may be a blessing. Finally forcing action to get players with skills into the defensive backfield. For a near term fix (next 2-3 years) I would like us to make a play for both Bodden AND Rolle. Puts a reasonable fix to the two problem levels of the defense and gives us time to build the guys behind them and still use our draft picks to get the DT, OG/C and RB we need in the first 3 rounds. Yes, they will cost some coin, but IMO, they make the defense pretty dang solid and one that could be counted on in the playoffs. By the time they start to tank due to age, we should have their replacements ready.
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
There are Nuts [N] For [F] Losers [L] teams out there that will grossly overpay for limited talent. I hope we aren't one of them.................again.
Methinks Rick Smith has something up his sleeve. Either a CB targeted in the draft, or a free agent for much less money. Dunta is not worth $12MM. He's not a top-5 CB. THAT is the reason they didn't franchise him. Besides, that would have been $21MM he'd have been guaranteed over two seasons, and then you still have to deal with locking him up after next season. Better to not franchise him, see what he's worth in the open market, and let him go if it's too high and sign someone else worthy of their dollar amount.
And for those of you that think Bob McNair doesn't want to win and only thinks about money, you are DEAD WRONG. That man will pay whatever it takes to win. But paying an above-average player elite money is just foolish. I like D-Rob, but I don't like him for Top 5 money. I'd rather use his $12MM to lock up OD and DeMeco long term.
And for those of you that think Bob McNair doesn't want to win and only thinks about money, you are DEAD WRONG. That man will pay whatever it takes to win. But paying an above-average player elite money is just foolish. I like D-Rob, but I don't like him for Top 5 money. I'd rather use his $12MM to lock up OD and DeMeco long term.
The hole was there to fill before this. This just keeps The Texans from being broke AND in need of a #1 CB. Good move, IMHO. I can't say I wish him the best, though. It would piss me off if he has a 6 or 7 INT season in '10. Here's hoping he stays healthy, though.
You're not going to be a winner when you blow too much money on FA's that aren't worth it. Glad McNair didn't go all "Dan Snyder" and screw his team. Also keep in mind that teams are responsible for all contracts, as written, when a CBA does take effect and another salary cap is in effect.
m5kwatts
Veteran
Rick Smith was a DB in his playing days. His first job in football was DB coach for Purdue. The guy specializes in this position unit. I think he has an immense amount of confidence in his ability to find value DBs and not the overpaid big names because he knows the fundamentals and mechanics of being a DB. When he drafted Quinn I said "WTF?!" Even Mayock said he had a 6th round to undrafted grade on him. Then the kid steps in and was probably one of the better nickel/slot corners in the league this year. Brice McCain didn't even get an invite to the combine and he picked off Manning this year and proved down the stretch he can play.
Given that this years draft is rich in CBs all the way down to the 7th round, I KNOW he's thinking he can find a starter or atleast a nickel in this draft and his name doesn't have to be Joe Haden or Kyle Wilson.
Franchising Dunta would mean overpaying Dunta... But I´d still like him to stay, simply because our Defense would be worse than last year with a rookie CB1 (not to mention with Dunta still here, we could pick an Earl Thomas, Dan Williams, Brian Price or Kyle Wilson to pair up with him... now we basically have to draft a DB to replace him). Well who knows, maybe we can sign him for a reasonable price after all, or trade for a proven CB.
If he leaves and we don`t pick up another one, I´d expect us to go defense in the first two rounds, maybe even DBs in the first two rounds (perhaps Thomas and Ghee?). That means our O-Line and HB problem needs to wait until the 3d round...
If he leaves and we don`t pick up another one, I´d expect us to go defense in the first two rounds, maybe even DBs in the first two rounds (perhaps Thomas and Ghee?). That means our O-Line and HB problem needs to wait until the 3d round...
Blake
MMQB
Why does everyone think that McNair has some secret master plan to fix our secondary? This is the same guy who gave Gary Kubiak a new higher paying contract when he has one year left on his current lower paying contract. Kubiak hasnt even taken his team tot he playoffs!
What was McNair's reason?
“I think Gary's done a good job,” McNair said. “I look at our results, and I look at what some other coaches have done, and I evaluated his performance against others. We have a great foundation in place."
Maybe he should take a look at the Carolina Panthers situation. John Fox is in the last year of his contract, and his GM Marty Hurney came on the radio and point blank said that coaches in the NFL are professionals, and whether they are in the first year of a contract or the last year, they should/will give it their all.
And the piece about evaluating his performance against others. Who was he compairing him to? Obviously nobody in the AFC south, becuase we cant even win the division once!
BUT we dont have time to lock up DeMeco Ryans who has been the perfect MLB for us for the past 4 years!
And now we are forced to draft a rookie CB with our first pick and throw him to the wolves. Forget fixing the free safety position. Or fixing the O and D Lines.
Give me a F*ing break...
What was McNair's reason?
“I think Gary's done a good job,” McNair said. “I look at our results, and I look at what some other coaches have done, and I evaluated his performance against others. We have a great foundation in place."
Maybe he should take a look at the Carolina Panthers situation. John Fox is in the last year of his contract, and his GM Marty Hurney came on the radio and point blank said that coaches in the NFL are professionals, and whether they are in the first year of a contract or the last year, they should/will give it their all.
And the piece about evaluating his performance against others. Who was he compairing him to? Obviously nobody in the AFC south, becuase we cant even win the division once!
BUT we dont have time to lock up DeMeco Ryans who has been the perfect MLB for us for the past 4 years!
And now we are forced to draft a rookie CB with our first pick and throw him to the wolves. Forget fixing the free safety position. Or fixing the O and D Lines.
Give me a F*ing break...
So you would pay D rob top five money? Can you honestly say hes worth the money hes asking for? Im not saying D rob is not a good ball player, Im saying hes not worth what he wants. Yes OD had a major knee injury last year, but we both know, knee injuries arent as serious as they once were 5-10 years ago. I would be talking in a completely different manner IF D rob was a top 5 shutdown corner but hes not. OD IS a top 5 TE.
On another note, if you are the type of "GM" that would roll over and pay D rob a s*&^ ton of money because he wants it, then I sir, am glad you are not our GM.
Yes but speculation is all we have in the offseason. Its either that or fantasy baseball which I reluctantly signed up for AGAIN.....just to pass the time.....
Blake
MMQB
Why?
OD is not better than Dallas Clark, Antonio Gates, Jason Witten, Tony Gonzales, Vernon Davis, Heath Miller. Even Kellen Winslow, Visanthe Shiancoe and a few others are better or on par with OD. Yes he is good. Yes he can catch. But overall he is not top 5 IMO. OD coming off a knee injury doesnt help his case.
I really hope he sits out TC. I want to see if TexansTalk bashes him like they bashed Dunta.
Section516
Warrior
At the time of OD's injury ( I know, Elephant in the room), wasn't he like top 20 in receiving yards amongst all? including receivers? With five touchdowns? And leading all TE's in receiving yards? 
Here are some stats for you on the 2009 season:
yds per game
1. Antonio gates - 72.3
2. dallas clark - 69.1
3. owen daniels - 64.9
4. jason witten - 64.4
5. brent celek - 60.7
avg. yds per catch
1. marcedes lewis - 16.2
2. antonio gates - 14.6
3. kevin boss - 13.5
4. tony scheffler - 13.4
5. owen daniels - 13.0
receptions per game
1. dallas clark - 6.25
2. jason witten - 5.8
3. owen daniels - 5.0
4. antonio gates - 4.9
5. vernon davis - 4.8
6. kellen winslow - 4.8
7. brent celek - 4.75
TD per game
1. vernon davis - .8125
2. visanthe shiancoe - .6875
3. owen daniels - .625
4. dallas clark - .625
5. antonio gates - .5
6. brent celek - .5
7. kellen winslow - .3125
8. jason witten - .125
total receiving yds
1. antonio gates - 1157
2. dallas clark - 1106
3. owen daniels - on pace for 1038
4. jason witten - 1030
5. brent celek - 971
6. vernon davis - 965
Now, I might have missed some categories but I think I hit the most important ones. As you can clearly see, he not only IS a top 5 TE, but Tony gonzalez, heath miller, kellen winslow, and visanthe shiancoe (except for TD's) arent even in the same space as this guy. 4 of the 5 categories I listed above clearly show that its the same guys: Gates, Clark, Daniels, and Witten.
Your move.....
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
I think OD is better than Winslow, Shancoe, and Miller. Hard to say about Davis, he's finally living up to his freak like athleticism. Dallas Clark is a WR playing TE. OD is well more rounded as a blocker than Clark. Clark is faster, runs great routes, etc. Both have great hands.
Tony Gonzales is future HOF'er, all around superb talent. I wouldn't be suprised to see him hang up his cleats very soon.
Antonio Gates has great ball skills, great reciever, I don't know much about his blocking ability. Jason Witten is an all around terrific TE, I think OD is already well on his way to develop into this type of threat.
Right now I would say Gates, Witten, Gonzales, and Clark are better (not sure about the order). And I would put OD in the #5 spot tied with Davis. Shancoe and Miller right behind them. Then guys like Shockey, Kevin Boss, etc. Winslow is good, when he decides to be a factor and for me is not even in the conversation because he is so hit or miss. JMHO.
Blake
MMQB
There is more to being a TE than pass catching stats. OD is actually more of a receiver.
And catching passes in our offense isnt exactly the hardest thing to do. We sling the ball around more than anyone.
If you want to say that OD is a top 5 pass catching TE, then I will agree with you.
OD is probably a better QB than a blocking TE. And now after knee surgery, we will see what he is. That is the problem. We need to see what OD can do before we invest in him long term.
And dont post a stat to me that says "on pace for", that is ridiculous. The NFL doesnt have half seasons or anything. If you cant do it for a full season then GTF outa here.
Hardcore Texan
Magnet Man
OD is a solid blocking TE, he has came a LONG way in that department since he was drafted.
Section516
Warrior
OD's blocking ability has increased exponentially over the years.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
At the time of OD's injury ( I know, Elephant in the room), wasn't he like top 20 in receiving yards amongst all? including receivers? With five touchdowns? And leading all TE's in receiving yards?
OD finished the season 18th in receiving yards by a TE having only played 7.25 games. 5 TDs still had him at 12th on the season. 10 plays over 20&40 had him tied for 10th on the season. 70% 1st downs was 3rd among starting TEs. Project those out over a full season and he is top 5 across the board. Pre-injury dude was a top 5 TE. It's really kind of ridiculous to argue he was no better than folks who played a whole season and posted similar production to what he did in 7.25 games. Post injury we just don't know.
Yeah because it is so hard to catch passes in those run happy offenses in San Diego, Dallas and Indy. C'mon - that's like saying you can't compare this apple to that one because someone took the stem off this one.
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
Those guys were nowhere near ODs stats before OD went down with injury.
HuttoKarl
Veteran
We have a year to see how Owen bounces back. We watched Dunta for a year after major knee injuries and he didn't play like a guy who needs a big money deal. If Daniels plays like he did before the injury, lock him up. If not, offer a FAIR market deal and go from there.
The one thing I will say that I absolutely LOVED about Dunta Robinson is him finally saying something about how crappy Carr was as a QB. I think that sort of got the ball rolling to find a new QB. For that, we owe him.
Let me know if you can find a website that shows blocking stats for TE's. Also, I cant recall the last time when a blocking TE and contract negotiation issues were in the same sentence. Cmon now, be reasonable.
I agree speculation is all fans have at this point (this ain't my first rodeo).
My point was that there is no reason to get emotional, belligerent, obtuse, and insulting about mere speculation (not saying you were being these things, just folks in general).
People can assume all they want to, but they shouldn't get upset when others do not agree with those assumptions. Unless anyone here can make/prove the claim that they are in on FO meetings, it's just silly to get too wrapped up in this off-season stuff.
I read ya, and agree. This message board, just like fantasy baseball is just here to pass the time until the season starts. But your right, when posting you gotta keep things in perspective.
nero THE zero
All Pro
Bud Adams.
Yankee_In_TX
Dance Lindsay!
Hey, WTH is up with the people to your left who always seem to be patting opposing players on the back?!?!?! (off topic, I know, but the picture you posted reminded me you sit down there).
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Seems like the players union did not do a very good job educating the players on the potential upcoming difficulties. If they had, Dunta, OD and DeMeco should have jumped on the deals they were offered last year which by all accounts were ordinarily configured deals. Now they are RFAs again or staring a very uncertain market in the face.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
what do you base that on? it sure as hell isn't his track record. bob has yet to go out there and make a big splash player-wise or coaching-wise.
the most money he has paid to anyone was David Carr. We all know how that turned out. When DC is your biggest splash, its time to make a damn splash.
I know you like Bob, but he hasn't been committed to winning championships. he has been committed to running a profitable franchise.
Section516
Warrior
What was Antonio Smith?
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
Super Mario gets it. He is realistic. He is honest. He is objective. Most importantly, he wants to win and isn't willing to give Bob the benefit of the doubt because frankly, he hasn't earned it. Bob has been cheap. Period.
Bob has shown nothing to me that shows he is committed to anything than the almighty dollar. Give me even just one example where he spent big money to get us competitive. Just one example of going out and getting a top tier guy. He hasn't because it would lower his profit margin.
Also, everyone points to the Skins and their spendy ways. First off, they go after too many long in the tooth veterans (shawn springs, deion sanders). Secondly, the problem in Washington isn't Snyder, its the fact that they STILL haven't addressed the QB position. You can't win without at least a decent QB especially in a brutal division. If McNair signs Haynesworth last year, we are 11-5 and in the playoffs and no one would want to play us. Just because the Skins didn't succeed doesn't make Haynesworth a bust, it makes their overall plan a bust. We have a QB. We have THE #1 WR. We have a young trending upwards defense. Take Cody out and replace him with Haynesworth. You would see Amobi's play improve but more importantly his effort and tricks of the trade would improve greatly. Bob didn't do it because it cost too much money. Signing Haynesworth wouldn't have made us get rid of anyone on our roster and wouldn't have even affected this year's roster. The salary cap is a soft cap that can be manipulated if you are just willing to pay the money. Bob isn't willing to spend the money.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
its a one year deal, dude. one year. and doesn't affect next year's cap at all. in fact, you can be over the cap and franchise a guy.
if I was GM, i would have not re-signed Kubiak, and would have made a serious play at Cowher behind closed doors. This would put pressure on Kubes and show the fanbase there is a commitment to improve. As for DRob, I would have franchised him two years in a row but would not have given him a multi-year deal until he showed he was worth it.
some of yall act like its your money they are spending. it's not. some of yall act like if we spend money we are going to magically lose all our players. we just did lose one of our better players...by not spending money.
trust me, dunta is going to get a fat deal and its probably going to be a contending team that needs another corner and he is going to get much longer deal and much more guaranteed money than we were willing to give him.
if i was GM, we wouldn't be giving people extensions after going .500. that is for damn sure. and Super Mario had a great point about John Fox. Why reward failure. Kubiak has failed for 4 straight years but Bob was more than happy to give him 3 more. Just like his handling/coddling of Carr. Carebear owners don't win squat and I know this board has the hardcore fans go ask casual fan what they think of the Texans. They would say 'can't win when it counts'....because they have proven they can not win when it counts under kubiak.
but throw another parade, homers.
Second Honeymoon
Hall of Fame
per game numbers are skewed because he missed half the season. those other guys played 16 games and are in less pass-happy run-deficient offenses.
don't get me wrong. OD is a good TE, but he is not Top 5. Top 10 for sure. He is close to Top 5 maybe 6th or 7th at best, but he has to show me he can do what he did last year for a whole season before I consider him Top 5.
I would take Witten, Gonzalez, Davis, Gates, and Clark over him. No doubt. Then you he is in the 2nd tier with Heath Miller, Celek, and Shiankoe. Winslow is off my radar until he gets with a real QB.