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Will we stomp the Titans' mule?

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Tannehill is playing well, there's no denying that, but you dont think its because he's in a better situation/team than watson is?

@Sevenfeet it seems to me that Henry is what drives that offense correct?
Henry is the star, but Tannehill is the guy that makes their offense go. Look at how the Titans offense looked under Mariota's direction vs Tannehill's. The QB position is that important.
 

Decim8

Waterboy
Henry is the star, but Tannehill is the guy that makes their offense go. Look at how the Titans offense looked under Mariota's direction vs Tannehill's. The QB position is that important.
Ofcorse the QB is important, but I still think their offense revolves around Henry. Henry breakout year was only in 2018 if I can remember which was mariota last full season, but thats why I asked @Sevenfeet for his opinion about what drives their offense.

Either way, if tannehill has an off game he has Henry to lean on and vice versa. But if watson has a bad game........we are screwed, he's all we have
 

banned1976

All Pro
I’m just looking at this one game. Most knowledgeable football people would trade Tannehill for Watson. But in this game, Tannehill is a perfect match for what Tennessee wants to do.

How many times have we seen the better quarterback get outplayed by his lesser? It happens a lot. And because Tannehill fits the scheme to a T and Watson fits the scheme he’s been forced into, the proverbial square peg round hole, Tannehill has looked more effective than Watson for awhile now.

The Texans offense will be evolving over the season to fit Watson’s skills better. But they’re not there yet. And I believe the Titans are as good as their ranking.
 
Tannehill is playing well, there's no denying that, but you dont think its because he's in a better situation/team than watson is?

@Sevenfeet it seems to me that Henry is what drives that offense correct?
Well I think if you'd ask Dolphins fans the same question, they'd undoubtedly say yes. It's also been a big topic of conversation around here, both during the playoff run and the beginning of this season of how fortunate we had Tannehill as a cast-off of Miami sitting behind Mariota until it was clear that we couldn't continue that any longer. Sometimes the change of scenery works, but most often its a combination of coaching, available personnel and maturity.

As for the Henry question, the modern NFL is a passing league. So having Henry as a marquee player is a bit of a throwback. How many featured backs has Belicheck had during the 6 championships over the last two decades? A LOT. That being said, Henry is a special player and last year's rushing champion. What he brings to the table is a punishing battering ram style combined with an ability to escape for a long big play run at a speed he shouldn't be able to achieve. And he usually gets better as the game goes along, racking up more yards in the second half than the first. Defenses usually try to stack the box during predicted run plays and wrap up his legs in order to get him on the ground (or at least slow him down until help arrives). If you go high on him, you get the stiff arm and end up getting posterized like Josh Norman last week.

The other big advantage having Henry in the offense is that it makes play action far easier since the defense has to respect the possibility of Henry making a play when he's in the backfield. And Tannehill is highly effective on play action, especially to WR targets AJ Brown, Corey Davis, Adam Humphries and tight end Jonnu Smith. But frankly, any of the other role player guys are dangerous too in this situation.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Football is also about a little luck. Sometimes the ball has to go your way. But in other situations, you have to make your moments. In the Buffalo game, the Bills turned the ball over three times. The first was off a tipped attempted reception that was a bit off target and Malcolm Butler was there. The second INT was just Malcolm Butler reading Allen knowing where he was going to throw. And the last was a special teams opportunity creating a fumble.

Yes, there is one INT Tannehill threw that got nullified for a penalty. But overall, Tannehill has been playing smart football, putting the ball where it needs to be for the big play. The first TD reception against the Bills to AJ Brown was his first pass of the game and it was right in the bucket over the shoulder where it is supposed to be.

Yes, we could have lost the first three games.....a +6 points advantage over 3 contests. But this team under Tannehill is different than the Mariota years. If the Titans got down under Mariota, we weren't built to come back. Now, the team believes they always have a chance under Tannehill. That's a huge difference to your potential outcome.

Are the Titans beatable? Certainly. But it won't be easy. The Texans are better than their record. The Titans need a Divisional win to take command of the AFC South. The Texans need a win, period. It should be fun to watch.
I beg to differ.
On the first INT, the Tacks rushed just 3; Allen had all day, though he didn't need it.
The receiver, Roberts, had Butler beat by at least two steps and was wide open.
The throwing lane was also wide open.
Allen just threw a terrible pass behind the receiver; it bounced off his back shoulder pad right into the hand of the trailing Butler (because he was beat so badly, he became lucky, LOL).

Similarly (but differently), Allen just made a poor throw/bad decision.
His receiver had outside position and was a tad ahead of Butler along the sideline with room to spare.
The throwing lane was also wide open. Allen can see his receiver clearly from start to finish. Davis never showed even a tiny bit of an inclination to run a comebacker.
That ball has got to be a fade every single time.
Allen simply gave that game away; we knew he's capable of it when we saw him in the playoffs last year.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Well I think if you'd ask Dolphins fans the same question, they'd undoubtedly say yes. It's also been a big topic of conversation around here, both during the playoff run and the beginning of this season of how fortunate we had Tannehill as a cast-off of Miami sitting behind Mariota until it was clear that we couldn't continue that any longer. Sometimes the change of scenery works, but most often its a combination of coaching, available personnel and maturity.

As for the Henry question, the modern NFL is a passing league. So having Henry as a marquee player is a bit of a throwback. How many featured backs has Belicheck had during the 6 championships over the last two decades? A LOT. That being said, Henry is a special player and last year's rushing champion. What he brings to the table is a punishing battering ram style combined with an ability to escape for a long big play run at a speed he shouldn't be able to achieve. And he usually gets better as the game goes along, racking up more yards in the second half than the first. Defenses usually try to stack the box during predicted run plays and wrap up his legs in order to get him on the ground (or at least slow him down until help arrives). If you go high on him, you get the stiff arm and end up getting posterized like Josh Norman last week.

The other big advantage having Henry in the offense is that it makes play action far easier since the defense has to respect the possibility of Henry making a play when he's in the backfield. And Tannehill is highly effective on play action, especially to WR targets AJ Brown, Corey Davis, Adam Humphries and tight end Jonnu Smith. But frankly, any of the other role player guys are dangerous too in this situation.
No knock on Tannehill, but he's a product of the system, somewhat like Matt Schaub (but a tad differently).
There isn't a whole lot a QB needs to do off of the play action, but to make the first read, and occasionally the second one, usually in the same line of vision or on the same side of the field.
Tannehill has the blocking and he has the open receiver due to that system; those are the keys.

Mariotta was having health issues most of his career and he also had to make the transition from an RPO college game, to an EP system, and then to the WCO under Vrabel.

Tannehill played in the WCO at A&M under Sherman.
When he was drafted by the Dolphins, they hired Sherman as the OC to run the same system.
For that reason, Tannehill is very experienced running it. Now he just has better protection, better weapons, and a running game (which is instrumental in the WCO) to support him.
Not to mention a bend but don't break defense that can limit the opponents from scoring at will.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 1-1...Post OB!!!!!
Posters around these parts are so wrapped up in DW4 that they dont even bother to look at what Tannehill has done.

I said last yr Tannehill > DW4 and people laughed. Now they're in the denial/blame phase. Some have come around and as time goes on even more will come around.

Then you have some members who will never admit they were wrong and if DW4 just had this or that, he would be the greatest. We both know that's a lie.
So let me get this straight, you're 100% stating for the record......if Tannehill was traded to the Texans b/c Watson had been traded to the Titans for a couple of RD6 picks.......Texans and Tannehill are enjoying their first AFCCG while the Titans and Watson are sent home after losing in the playoffs? Tannehill would be exclusive reason why the Texans didn't make it to the AFCCG?
 
I beg to differ.
On the first INT, the Tacks rushed just 3; Allen had all day, though he didn't need it.
The receiver, Roberts, had Butler beat by at least two steps and was wide open.
The throwing lane was also wide open.
Allen just threw a terrible pass behind the receiver; it bounced off his back shoulder pad right into the hand of the trailing Butler (because he was beat so badly, he became lucky, LOL).

Similarly (but differently), Allen just made a poor throw/bad decision.
His receiver had outside position and was a tad ahead of Butler along the sideline with room to spare.
The throwing lane was also wide open. Allen can see his receiver clearly from start to finish. Davis never showed even a tiny bit of an inclination to run a comebacker.
That ball has got to be a fade every single time.
Allen simply gave that game away; we knew he's capable of it when we saw him in the playoffs last year.
Yes, the first INT was thrown behind the receiver. But Butler had to still make the heads up play for the reception. There's a reason why corners aren't wide receivers. On the second INT, Butler said in interviews after the game that he anticipated where Allen was going to throw and broke in front of the ball. That's just good play and the fault of Allen for not using his eyes to waive him off.
 
No knock on Tannehill, but he's a product of the system, somewhat like Matt Schaub (but a tad differently).
There isn't a whole lot a QB needs to do off of the play action, but to make the first read, and occasionally the second one, usually in the same line of vision or on the same side of the field.
Tannehill has the blocking and he has the open receiver due to that system; those are the keys.
Depending on the defense, you may have to go to 3rd or 4th reads, escape the pocket or take off and get what you can. Tannehill is very good on getting the extra yards himself. He's not Watson in this regard, but certainly capable.

Mariotta was having health issues most of his career and he also had to make the transition from an RPO college game, to an EP system, and then to the WCO under Vrabel.
Everyone in Nashville really wanted Mariota to succeed here. Everybody liked him personally...a "I want that guy to marry my daughter" personality. And going from coordinator to coordinator didn't help. But in the end, it didn't work out.

Tannehill played in the WCO at A&M under Sherman.
When he was drafted by the Dolphins, they hired Sherman as the OC to run the same system.
For that reason, Tannehill is very experienced running it. Now he just has better protection, better weapons, and a running game (which is instrumental in the WCO) to support him.
Not to mention a bend but don't break defense that can limit the opponents from scoring at will.
I can't say I watched Tannehill at lot at Miami. But like the situation with Mariota, it didn't work out. But I'd agree on the pieces around him there....Miami hasn't been good in some time. But Tannehill did get our organization's attention back in 2018 when we had that strange lightning delayed 5 hour game at the beginning of the season when we lost to Miami with Tannehill under center.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Yes, the first INT was thrown behind the receiver. But Butler had to still make the heads up play for the reception. There's a reason why corners aren't wide receivers. On the second INT, Butler said in interviews after the game that he anticipated where Allen was going to throw and broke in front of the ball. That's just good play and the fault of Allen for not using his eyes to waive him off.
Words. :neener:
 

CloakNNNdagger

Hall of Fame
Having Blasingame back will help the Titans run game. But it's doubtful that Corey Davis will play even if he comes off of COVID protocol by game time. MyCole Pruitt is depth for catching the ball and it would be nice to get him back but like Davis, unlikely this week.
I also doubt that either sees the field Sunday.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
So let me get this straight, you're 100% stating for the record......if Tannehill was traded to the Texans b/c Watson had been traded to the Titans for a couple of RD6 picks.......Texans and Tannehill are enjoying their first AFCCG while the Titans and Watson are sent home after losing in the playoffs? Tannehill would be exclusive reason why the Texans didn't make it to the AFCCG?

World of difference when you’re playing for team with better weapons ( especially running game) and much better protection. Now it’s wow look at this player 9 touchdowns to one interception. Look at what he has accomplished. Man I wish we had that quarterback. Lol


Like you said put him this crap and dude probably would be leading the league in interceptions. Heck it’s a strong possibility he would’ve gotten hurt behind our atrocious line.
 

Corrosion

Idealist
Staff member
World of difference when you’re playing for team with better weapons ( especially running game) and much better protection. Now it’s wow look at this player 9 touchdowns to one interception. Look at what he has accomplished. Man I wish we had that quarterback. Lol


Like you said put him this crap and dude probably would be leading the league in interceptions. Heck it’s a strong possibility he would’ve gotten hurt behind our atrocious line.

You can only play the hand you are dealt ... anything else is excuses.
 

76Texan

Hall of Fame
Couple weeks ago I said Tannehill was better than Watson and got laughed at .... but the stats sure seem to back up my assertion. He's been as good statistically as any QB in the league since taking over as the starter.
Not in the playoffs when it matters.
154 yards combined in the first two rounds.
He then stood around watching the Chiefs put up 28 points before throwing a TD in garbage time to make it looks a little less like a massacre.

Those are real facts, not empty stats.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
So let me get this straight, you're 100% stating for the record......if Tannehill was traded to the Texans b/c Watson had been traded to the Titans for a couple of RD6 picks.......Texans and Tannehill are enjoying their first AFCCG while the Titans and Watson are sent home after losing in the playoffs? Tannehill would be exclusive reason why the Texans didn't make it to the AFCCG?
I'm saying Tannehil has been better than DW4 since he took over the starting position and it's not really debatable.
 
Couple weeks ago I said Tannehill was better than Watson and got laughed at .... but the stats sure seem to back up my assertion. He's been as good statistically as any QB in the league since taking over as the starter.
Yes, his stats are better. But DW4 still scares the hell out of us. Mike Vrabel doesn't hand out the compliment "special player" often. As I said before, Houston is a better team than 1-4. The season is not over, yet. 1-5 would probably end it and that's why facing a desperate hungry team who has shown they will play hard for the interim coach is a dangerous proposition, even on the road.
 
Man, some of y’all just act like nothing else matters. Tannehill was average at best in Miami. Now he’s a top tier QB in Nashville?

Not surprising though. Some thought Vince Young was good because his team won games. I guess that excuse train finally caught up to him.
Here's my VY story. Vince Young was entering his second year in Nashville and had made an early splash the previous season taking over midseason. The next season the Titans had drafted safety Michael Griffin in the first round who played at Texas with VY. One of my friends who was a custom homebuilder had built the house that Griffin had purchased and I was invited to come over to meet him while my friend was completing the last punch list items on the house. Griffin needed to get his cable TV boxes so I said I'd go with him to the local Comcast office to pick them up.

Now Michael Griffin is a very quiet person, usually letting his actions on the field speak for himself. So there wasn't a lot of conversation along the way except for one thing I asked him. I asked him about VY and his splash as the Titans new QB and to give his thoughts. And he spoke as a defender who knew him well, specifically speaking about his body motions of what he would do right before taking off for a QB scamper (usually for a big play). And at that point I was wondering to myself, if Griffin has already figured him out, how long would it take NFL defenses to make the same observations and adapt, and could VY adapt?

Of course we now know the answer...the other teams watched the film, saw the same pattern that Griffin saw and gave VY all kinds of grief from the first game onward. And VY couldn't adapt himself and his play crumbled. The NFL is all about adaptation. Once there is film on you, can you still play your game and be effective? And when the old tricks don't work, what then? The really good players continue to adapt throughout their career, regardless of what film there is on you and as your body ages and slows.

Right now, we're getting Ryan Tannehill who has adapted from his early days in Miami. And he's playing his best football of his life. Does he have flaws? Sure. Do defenses know it? Yup. But is he still effective based on his ability to adapt within the Titans system? Absolutely.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That’s not an excuse. All because you don’t agree which is very strange, doesn’t make any of it excuses.
There will be many more excuses coming from you over the next 4 yrs.

It's always everybody else's fault. It's going to be the same with the new HC for as long as DW4'S here. You're so invested you can't see the forest for the trees.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Here's my VY story. Vince Young was entering his second year in Nashville and had made an early splash the previous season taking over midseason. The next season the Titans had drafted safety Michael Griffin in the first round who played at Texas with VY. One of my friends who was a custom homebuilder had built the house that Griffin had purchased and I was invited to come over to meet him while my friend was completing the last punch list items on the house. Griffin needed to get his cable TV boxes so I said I'd go with him to the local Comcast office to pick them up.

Now Michael Griffin is a very quiet person, usually letting his actions on the field speak for himself. So there wasn't a lot of conversation along the way except for one thing I asked him. I asked him about VY and his splash as the Titans new QB and to give his thoughts. And he spoke as a defender who knew him well, specifically speaking about his body motions of what he would do right before taking off for a QB scamper (usually for a big play). And at that point I was wondering to myself, if Griffin has already figured him out, how long would it take NFL defenses to make the same observations and adapt, and could VY adapt?

Of course we now know the answer...the other teams watched the film, saw the same pattern that Griffin saw and gave VY all kinds of grief from the first game onward. And VY couldn't adapt himself and his play crumbled. The NFL is all about adaptation. Once there is film on you, can you still play your game and be effective? And when the old tricks don't work, what then? The really good players continue to adapt throughout their career, regardless of what film there is on you and as your body ages and slows.

Right now, we're getting Ryan Tannehill who has adapted from his early days in Miami. And he's playing his best football of his life. Does he have flaws? Sure. Do defenses know it? Yup. But is he still effective based on his ability to adapt within the Titans system? Absolutely.
This is what the Texans are going through with DW4. He hasn't adapted in 4 yrs and some fans think with a new HC he will be able to learn to adapt. I'm of the mindset of if it hasn't happened in 4 years it isn't going to happen in the next 4 years regardless of who the HC is.
 

Speedy

Yeller Dweller
Here's my VY story. Vince Young was entering his second year in Nashville and had made an early splash the previous season taking over midseason. The next season the Titans had drafted safety Michael Griffin in the first round who played at Texas with VY. One of my friends who was a custom homebuilder had built the house that Griffin had purchased and I was invited to come over to meet him while my friend was completing the last punch list items on the house. Griffin needed to get his cable TV boxes so I said I'd go with him to the local Comcast office to pick them up.

Now Michael Griffin is a very quiet person, usually letting his actions on the field speak for himself. So there wasn't a lot of conversation along the way except for one thing I asked him. I asked him about VY and his splash as the Titans new QB and to give his thoughts. And he spoke as a defender who knew him well, specifically speaking about his body motions of what he would do right before taking off for a QB scamper (usually for a big play). And at that point I was wondering to myself, if Griffin has already figured him out, how long would it take NFL defenses to make the same observations and adapt, and could VY adapt?

Of course we now know the answer...the other teams watched the film, saw the same pattern that Griffin saw and gave VY all kinds of grief from the first game onward. And VY couldn't adapt himself and his play crumbled. The NFL is all about adaptation. Once there is film on you, can you still play your game and be effective? And when the old tricks don't work, what then? The really good players continue to adapt throughout their career, regardless of what film there is on you and as your body ages and slows.

Right now, we're getting Ryan Tannehill who has adapted from his early days in Miami. And he's playing his best football of his life. Does he have flaws? Sure. Do defenses know it? Yup. But is he still effective based on his ability to adapt within the Titans system? Absolutely.
That’s all fine and dandy. My point is the simple fact that he’s in a better system and all that periphery shit is just not excuses like the other poster suggested. Other stuff matters.

If given the choice, 31 other teams out of 31 would take Watson over Tannehill. Not saying Tannehill isn’t getting the job done and Watson couldn’t stand to do better, but you bring Tannehill here, and he’s probably worse than he was in Miami, and Watson would easily elevate to top tier in Nashville.

This garbage that Tannehill is a better QB than Watson is just people who see every snap he takes and are strong to criticize him for the plays he doesn’t make, when all QBs don’t make all the plays, HOF caliber or not. Then they’ll look at the stats of a QB who they don’t see every single snap of, and well, you know the rest.

It’s just Skip Bayless horseshit.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That’s all fine and dandy. My point is the simple fact that he’s in a better system and all that periphery shit is just not excuses like the other poster suggested. Other stuff matters.

If given the choice, 31 other teams out of 31 would take Watson over Tannehill. Not saying Tannehill isn’t getting the job done and Watson couldn’t stand to do better, but you bring Tannehill here, and he’s probably worse than he was in Miami, and Watson would easily elevate to top tier in Nashville.

This garbage that Tannehill is a better QB than Watson is just people who see every snap he takes and are strong to criticize him for the plays he doesn’t make, when all QBs don’t make all the plays, HOF caliber or not. Then they’ll look at the stats of a QB who they don’t see every single snap of, and well, you know the rest.

It’s just Skip Bayless horseshit.
#Blindedbyfandom

There will be no championships, but there will be many excuses.

10 bad games out of 11 has brought the excuse makers out in full force. Corrosion has tried to show y'all the issues but it seems the all 22 only counts to some when they can use this tool to backup the false DW4 doesn't have anybody to throw the ball to mantra.
 


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