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Will the Texans be as bad as we think?

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
That's like saying no team went after Cam Newton or Gardner Minschew, or Bridgewater...
I don't what side of the argument you're on, but yeah, exactly.

Taylor would have been a great ad for a backup, but as your #1, he's not going to be very high up on the tier list. Even in the playoff year in Buffalo he was 16th in completion %, 25th in TD, 21st in Y/A, and 16th in passer rating. Case Keenum and Josh McCown had better numbers.

I know there's a tendency to look past all of that because he's our QB now and we've got to convince ourselves it'll be alright, but it doesn't change anything. He is who he is. We're back in the QB carousel game where we're going to get average to below play at that position, until we hit on another franchise type guy.

I'm guessing 4 wins.


I can't see this happening. IMO, Tim Kelly (if he sticks around after Watson's resolution) will be implementing whatever Culley and Pep want.
And that's what I don't get about keeping Kelly on. If he doesn't have his own offensive philosophy to implement, then what's the point of keeping him? Or he does and that's what Culley is going with.
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
That's like saying no team went after Cam Newton or Gardner Minschew, or Bridgewater...
The Patriots re-signed Newton. The other QBs had competition brought in. Taylor's competition is Ryan Finley.
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
I know there's a tendency to look past all of that because he's our QB now and we've got to convince ourselves it'll be alright, but it doesn't change anything. He is who he is. We're back in the QB carousel game where we're going to get average to below play at that position, until we hit on another franchise type guy.

Being in the qb carousel game isn't worst case scenario because lots of teams are in the same boat. Being in the qb carousel game WHILE paying for a franchise qb who doesn't want to be here and may never play again is.

We have a 1st time hc with no reason to believe he'll be great, we have no qb, we have no talent, we have no cap, we have no real draft capital.

Sorry to piss on any parade but more then 4 wins will be a blessing or an accident.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
...And that's what I don't get about keeping Kelly on. If he doesn't have his own offensive philosophy to implement, then what's the point of keeping him? Or he does and that's what Culley is going with.
Likely the number one reason is because he and Watson seemed to have a good working relationship. Also, he's still young and growing in his career. Having been in OB's system for a couple of years, he was in a perfect position to now expand his resume in Culley's system and persuaded the organization/Culley he could do the job.
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
he was in a perfect position to now expand his resume in Culley's system and persuaded the organization/Culley he could do the job.
First, what is "Culley's system"? He's never run an offense. He's been in 3 systems the past 5 years. Is it the run heavy system of the Ravens or the pass happy system of the Chiefs?

Second, Kelly was retained prior to Culley's hiring. Culley had little influence on the new coaching staff.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
So Kelly will coordinate an offense he's not familiar with, designed by a head coach that's never coordinated an offense?

What could go wrong?
Don't know what you mean, "never coordinated an offense", but Culley was Senior offensive assistant from 2011 - 2012; and Assistant head coach from 2013 - 2016; under Reid at Philadelphia and Kansas City.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Likely the number one reason is because he and Watson seemed to have a good working relationship. Also, he's still young and growing in his career. Having been in OB's system for a couple of years, he was in a perfect position to now expand his resume in Culley's system and persuaded the organization/Culley he could do the job.
Aa couple of years? He's been with OB since 2012.
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
Don't know what you mean, "never coordinated an offense", but Culley was Senior offensive assistant from 2011 - 2012; and Assistant head coach from 2013 - 2016; under Reid at Philadelphia and Kansas City.
What I mean is that Culley has never been an offensive coordinator during his 27 years coaching in the NFL.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
No. The Texans refused to allow other teams to interview Kelly prior to the hiring of Culley. Culley had no input into retaining Kelly.
Maybe so as regarding the Texans refusing other teams the opportunity to interview Kelly. This clearly indicates their desire for the, as yet unsigned, new coach to have his input. Culley had over a month, after he signed, to interview Kelly before the decision to retain him was made.
 

powda

Guard your tongue before it digs your grave.
Maybe so as regarding the Texans refusing other teams the opportunity to interview Kelly. This clearly indicates their desire for the, as yet unsigned, new coach to have his input. Culley had over a month, after he signed, to interview Kelly before the decision to retain him was made.

Imo Kelly was/is just a bargaining piece to retain Watson. Nothing more.
 

Number19

Hall of Fame
Well, the definition of "couple" certainly doesn't mean "nine". So.........
If you google the definition of "couple" you find : " often used to refer to a small indeterminate of two or more when used in the phrase a couple of. I've heard couple used in this manner my whole life, and I'm on the wrong side of 60.
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
Maybe so as regarding the Texans refusing other teams the opportunity to interview Kelly. This clearly indicates their desire for the, as yet unsigned, new coach to have his input. Culley had over a month, after he signed, to interview Kelly before the decision to retain him was made.
That's not the reality of the situation. Culley never interviewed Kelly. He was introduced to him, just like Lovie Smith was introduced to Culley as the DC. The coaching staff was selected primarily by Caserio and "others".
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Nope we don't have any talent. These players made it to the NFL off of sure luck. They might as well forfeit the entire 2021 season. Maybe the league will still allow them the number 1 draft pick in 2022. Then we can resume football duties. Now the great faithful fans on here can say, we finally have one talented player on this team.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
If you google the definition of "couple" you find : " often used to refer to a small indeterminate of two or more when used in the phrase a couple of. I've heard couple used in this manner my whole life, and I'm on the wrong side of 60.
Yeah, I get it. A couple, 3 or 4, but 9? I guess we've only been dealing with this COVID for a couple of months?
 
I can't see this happening. IMO, Tim Kelly (if he sticks around after Watson's resolution) will be implementing whatever Culley and Pep want.
I put this in there because I truly believe Tim Kelly was retained to pacify DW4. Either way he's only been in an offensive capacity for a short time so learning other philosophies whatever they may be should help his growth.
 

banned1976

Truth Teller
There has been too much turnover on this team to expect much success in 2021. We've seen teams with this kind of turnover before fail while bringing in pro-bowl caliber players. It takes time for things to come together especially when you're basically assembling an expansion team with a bunch of 2nd and 3rd tier players and a rookie HC.

I put the Texans ceiling at 4 wins, the floor at 0.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
There has been too much turnover on this team to expect much success in 2021. We've seen teams with this kind of turnover before fail while bringing in pro-bowl caliber players. It takes time for things to come together especially when you're basically assembling an expansion team with a bunch of 2nd and 3rd tier players and a rookie HC.

I put the Texans ceiling at 4 wins, the floor at 0.

We've also seen some teams come successful as well. Nobody and I mean nobody thought the Eagles would win the Superbowl after making all the changes they made.

But I've bought into this team being straight up dumpster juice this season. Thanks to a few die hard on here.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I don't what side of the argument you're on, but yeah, exactly.

Taylor would have been a great ad for a backup, but as your #1, he's not going to be very high up on the tier list. Even in the playoff year in Buffalo he was 16th in completion %, 25th in TD, 21st in Y/A, and 16th in passer rating. Case Keenum and Josh McCown had better numbers.

I know there's a tendency to look past all of that because he's our QB now and we've got to convince ourselves it'll be alright, but it doesn't change anything. He is who he is. We're back in the QB carousel game where we're going to get average to below play at that position, until we hit on another franchise type guy.


And that's what I don't get about keeping Kelly on. If he doesn't have his own offensive philosophy to implement, then what's the point of keeping him? Or he does and that's what Culley is going with.
DW4 wanted Kelly as his OC.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
That's not the reality of the situation. Culley never interviewed Kelly. He was introduced to him, just like Lovie Smith was introduced to Culley as the DC. The coaching staff was selected primarily by Caserio and "others".
Who are these others? Got any proof Caserio isn't running football opps like Cal said Caserio would be doing?
 

OptimisticTexan

2021 Building Block 1 / Go Texans
One thing scares me about the D - and that is who, or is there even, a leader/ captain on this D now that Watt is gone?
We will need that onfield general.
Caserio may have to bite the bullet and spend a bit more and go get one or it could be chaos out there.
A leader will rise from the ashes. One of these athletes on both sides of the ball will see the situation. The players who see themselves as a leader will raise their commitment, play, and lead by example......someone will answer the role.

Do we even know who is on this team besides the QB?
I think Caserio has successfully signed every mid-level, low-risk/high reward NFL UFA available.....essentially he’s hoarded that group. He’s done exactly what I wanted to see him do at the front-end of this rebuild. I believe he’s truly bridged every position of need on the field and will now give him the luxury of drafting BPA to reload his roster.

I’m looking forward to this season with a lot of anticipation.....win or lose. I’m looking forward to seeing which UDFA step up with this opportunity, young Texans who will improve their game, drafted players who might make an impact, and how the coaching staff brings all these parts together. I see 2021 as the season the Texans and Caserio set the forms for the foundation. 2022 should be the season the foundation is being poured. If 2021 in some crazy way expedites this process.....then that’s just awesome.
 

banned1976

Truth Teller
We've also seen some teams come successful as well. Nobody and I mean nobody thought the Eagles would win the Superbowl after making all the changes they made.

But I've bought into this team being straight up dumpster juice this season. Thanks to a few die hard on here.
I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade or get into a debate. I just gave my opinion.

You don't really believe the Texans are going to be "dumpster juice" and that's fine. I have no desire whatsoever to try to change your mind. Or anyone else's. It's why I just answered the question posed by the originator of this thread rather than respond directly to someone.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade or get into a debate. I just gave my opinion.

You don't really believe the Texans are going to be "dumpster juice" and that's fine. I have no desire whatsoever to try to change your mind. Or anyone else's. It's why I just answered the question posed by the originator of this thread rather than respond directly to someone.

Banned you're good to go. I'm just learning you can't be semi optimistic around here. My take is we have to let things play out first. It is really hard to predict what will happen right now. Some believe Nick didn't bring in any talent which is completely false.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
I know there's a tendency to look past all of that because he's our QB now and we've got to convince ourselves it'll be alright, but it doesn't change anything. He is who he is. We're back in the QB carousel game where we're going to get average to below play at that position, until we hit on another franchise type guy.
My point is most of the teams on our schedule will field backup QB play.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
He was introduced to him, just like Lovie Smith was introduced to Culley as the DC. The coaching staff was selected primarily by Caserio and "others".
From what I understand Culley mentioned Lovie as his DC when he interviewed with Caserio. Caserio brought Lovie in & interviewed him for the DC job.

Culley picked Lovie
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
My point is most of the teams on our schedule will field backup QB play.
1) Most of the teams we'll play have actual talent elsewhere throughout their teams. And the unknown is whether their coaching is still better than ours or not.

2) Who all are you saying are backup QBs on the teams we'll play? I'll give you the Jets and Panthers, maybe Garoppolo and Tua, and that's all I see. Jimmy G should have a much better team around him, and who knows about the Dolphins and what they look like after all their draft picks.

I think Cam is still an adequate starter, probably closing in fast on backup status if not already there, we'll see how Lawrence's rookie year goes, but the rest are all solid. Wentz had a bad year last year. His 3 years prior he averaged 27 TD, 7 INT per season. He's going to be better than last year. Tannehill, Murray, Allen, Baker, Stafford, Wilson, Herbert, all solid #1's. Some better than others of course, but still. I don't see where you think most of the teams we play are fielding backup QBs.
 
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banned1976

Truth Teller
Banned you're good to go. I'm just learning you can't be semi optimistic around here. My take is we have to let things play out first. It is really hard to predict what will happen right now. Some believe Nick didn't bring in any talent which is completely false.
There are a few here that are critical of almost everything Caserio has done but I think the majority of the people posting on this board are generally positive about him. Although I haven't liked everything he's done, I approve of Nick's performance so far.

But O'Brien and Watson made a quick turnaround impossible. My "pessimism" on the Texans has much more to do with them than it does with Nick. In fact, it's all about them. Two people intent on bringing an NFL franchise to it's knees couldn't have done a better job of it than those two did. When it came to O'Brien, though, the entire NFL world laughed at Texans ownership when they made him GM (interim for one year, official for a second). Everyone except the McNair's knew how badly things would turn out when they decided they didn't need a real GM.

I predict the Texans will win between 0 and 4 games in 2021 because the McNair's messed up. And it's going to take more than a minute to fix their mess up.
 

Dejaview

All Pro
So Kelly will coordinate an offense he's not familiar with, designed by a head coach that's never coordinated an offense?

What could go wrong?
Out of curiosity why do you even follow this team? You are smarter than every one around. You hate everything the Texans do so what is your gig? Let’s say you are right. What do you gain? Do you have a private life? My experience has been constant bitchers never attained any status or goal in life. Have a good one.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Out of curiosity why do you even follow this team? You are smarter than every one around. You hate everything the Texans do so what is your gig? Let’s say you are right. What do you gain? Do you have a private life? My experience has been constant bitchers never attained any status or goal in life. Have a good one.
Neither have blind followers. What's your point?

We're not, or at least I'm not, Cowboy fan thinking we're going to win the SB every year. This team, this organization is at a low point right now. Hopefully, IN TIME, Caserio can work them out of it, but right now they're down. What's the point of sugar coating it?
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
1) Most of the teams we'll play have actual talent elsewhere throughout their teams. And the unknown is whether their coaching is still better than ours or not.

2) Who all are you saying are backup QBs on the teams we'll play? I'll give you the Jets and Panthers, maybe Garoppolo and Tua, and that's all I see. Jimmy G should have a much better team around him, and who knows about the Dolphins and what they look like after all their draft picks.

I think Cam is still an adequate starter, probably closing in fast on backup status if not already there, we'll see how Lawrence's rookie year goes, but the rest are all solid. Wentz had a bad year last year. His 3 years prior he averaged 27 TD, 7 INT per season. He's going to be better than last year. Tannehill, Murray, Allen, Baker, Stafford, Wilson, Herbert, all solid #1's. Some better than others of course, but still. I don't see where you think most of the teams we play are fielding backup QBs.
Your opinion of them are better than mine. Wilson, Stafford, & Tannehill are the only ones worth a damn in my book. Herbert & Burrows are likely to take the next step in the right direction. But saying they're solid #1s is cart in front of horse to me.
 

Speedy

Former Yeller Dweller
Your opinion of them are better than mine. Wilson, Stafford, & Tannehill are the only ones worth a damn in my book. Herbert & Burrows are likely to take the next step in the right direction. But saying they're solid #1s is cart in front of horse to me.
I’ll give you Herbert certainly doesn’t have enough snaps, but dude had a really really solid rookie season. 31 TD, 10 picks. Yes, he's still got something to prove, but he's not backup material. At least for now. And I'd say he's a lot further along than Tua, who may be backup material. Still too early for him as well.

Might be a little early for Allen too but he's headed in the right direction with 2 solid seasons under his belt, and again, not backup quality. Murray? Eh. OK, jury may still be out on him.

And I certainly never said some of the others were top tier, but they certainly aren't backup quality.

And let’s not forget about the secondary those guys will be going against. Maybe Lovie's scheme can help that. I don't feel confident about any of the special team DBs they brought in. Mitchell, Brooks and King all had passer ratings against of 103 or higher last season. So facing a 3rd string QB would give me concern, never mind a QB2, or a middling #1. But they find a way to get a decent pass rush and help those guys out, who knows?

Point being, I don't see your statement of most of the teams we play fielding backup QBs as being an accurate assessment. A few, handful maybe, but not most of.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
I’ll give you Herbert certainly doesn’t have enough snaps, but dude had a really really solid rookie season. 31 TD, 10 picks. Yes, he's still got something to prove, but he's not backup material. At least for now. And I'd say he's a lot further along than Tua, who may be backup material. Still too early for him as well.

Might be a little early for Allen too but he's headed in the right direction with 2 solid seasons under his belt, and again, not backup quality. Murray? Eh. OK, jury may still be out on him.

And I certainly never said some of the others were top tier, but they certainly aren't backup quality.

And let’s not forget about the secondary those guys will be going against. Maybe Lovie's scheme can help that. I don't feel confident about any of the special team DBs they brought in. Mitchell, Brooks and King all had passer ratings against of 103 or higher last season. So facing a 3rd string QB would give me concern, never mind a QB2, or a middling #1. But they find a way to get a decent pass rush and help those guys out, who knows?

Point being, I don't see your statement of most of the teams we play fielding backup QBs as being an accurate assessment. A few, handful maybe, but not most of.
I dont get all of the Herbert hate.

This dude was money last yr.

The draftniks missed on him.
 

thunderkyss

Just win baby!!!
Staff member
Contributor's Club
Point being, I don't see your statement of most of the teams we play fielding backup QBs as being an accurate assessment. A few, handful maybe, but not most of.
That’s ok.

We don’t have to agree on everything.
 

Lucky

Not like this. Not like this.
Staff member
Caserio brought Lovie in & interviewed him for the DC job.

Culley picked Lovie
What? You just admitted that it was Caserio who interviewed Lovie, then gave him the job. Culley could have mentioned a lot of guys. Culley and Smith never worked together. It was Caserio that hired Smith.
 


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