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Who's your quarterback - 2015 v2.0
- Thread starter Corrosion
- Start date
PapaL
Loose Screw
Thorn
Dirty Old Man
I deleted the deletion. Or rather I changed the deletion. But it's not in a state of deletionisty anymore.
Cant argue with that statement. None of the QB's last year were world beaters .... Taking any of them was a huge gamble in the first round.
I'm not against doing the same thing next season in taking a shot in the dark at a mid to late QB if those at the top are not all that and a bag of chips.
But acting like those we did take a shot in the dark with are going to save the franchise is just .... Silly. Fitz was almost serviceable , Mallett was erratic & Savage was a train wreck.
It sucks being a fan of an NFL franchise that has no quarterback. I envy the Dolts .... going from Peyton to Luck and only having to suffer thru one season of this bullsh!t.
Imagine how good this team would have been this year with a competent quarterback ....
Back to the drawing board.
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
Apparently... I NEED TO GO BACK ON MY MEDS!!! You people drive my "crazy",.......... WELL, FREAKIN' CRAZY!!!
At the end of the day, the QB needs to be nothing short of.....
Wait for it (in no specific order):
WAIT!!!
Ryan Leaf; Vince Young, (shall I go on?)
PapaL
Loose Screw
Texan_Bill
Hall of Fame
This all depends on how Mallett turns out. You don't think Mallett can become a franchise QB? It appears BOB disagrees with your assessment.
Meh...I haven't viewed this thread in a while but I still say the QB of the future is on the roster. I'll be pissed if the Texans reach on some QB in the 2015 draft. The Texans need help at LB and OL more than QB, imho. See also the Cowpies OL....freakin awesome!!!
I just don't get this,
1. Fitz is what we thought he would be. Solid backup
2. Mallett- Looked good in his 1st NFL start. (Tell me how most QB's look in their 1st NFL start.) Got hurt before his 2nd start, played despite being injured and didn't look like the same QB as he did in the game before. (Understandable)
3. Savage- Wasn't supposed to play this yr. But when pressed into emergency duty he had trouble with the speed of the game at 1st but improved as the game went on. He displayed a big arm and good touch accuracy. He had the team in the game with a chance to win with 2 mins left in the game.
I really respect your QB evals, what are you looking for out of basically rookie QB's in their 1st NFL action? What am I missing?
Not at all. I was as giddy about Mallett after his one (1) good game as anyone. If he does turn out as good as hoped, he answers the Texans needs at that position (as I pointed out in my post you quoted).
However, there are two other options as well. First, he might not be that good, and that is a definite possibility. Were any other teams beating on the Patriots door to acquire him for a throw away late round draft pick?
Second, he might get hurt for a length of time. Quarterbacks get hurt in the NFL frequently. Are the Texans going to contend with Keenum and Savage in that event? I think not. Savage is not a first round jewel that the Texans picked up in the fourth round after 31 other teams missed on him. He is just another fourth round talent.
It is easy to point at first round misses at the quarterback position. It happens a lot. On the other hand, the best QBs in the NFL are mostly first round picks. When late round quarterbacks are named, it is always the same very few names, with no mention of the myriad late rounders that turned out poorly.
You cant operate on the assumption that your QB is going to be hurt every yr. If Mallett gets hurt, Fitz is signed up for next yr and is a quality backup QB. IMHO
As for the late rd pick thingy, it appears that BOB is willing to stake his reputation as a QB guru (include Godsey in this too) on Mallett after working with him for 4 yrs.
Correct in both statements. So you are absolutely certain there is no risk in going into next season with Mallett, Fitzgerald, Savage/Keenum? What do you think that makes them - winning record contenders (I do), playoff contenders (I do), a threat to go deep in the playoffs (I don't). I have one caveat though, and it's a big one - that Mallett is as good as everyone hopes. If not, it is 7-9 through 9-7 mediocrity and no chance at winning the division. In addition, Foster will ave another year of wear and tear, and JJ will be a year older.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Mallett and Savage should not at all be lumped together as 1st round talents that fell.
Mallett displayed 1st round talent and perforomance in college. Off field concerns brought down actual performance.
Savage is nothing more than potential in a prototype body. He did not perform at a 1st round level and just got dropped anyway due to lack of starts. I see why OB thinks there is potential but hes a true flyer.
If Mallett doesn't develop an injury bug I think he's our guy.
Mallett displayed 1st round talent and perforomance in college. Off field concerns brought down actual performance.
Savage is nothing more than potential in a prototype body. He did not perform at a 1st round level and just got dropped anyway due to lack of starts. I see why OB thinks there is potential but hes a true flyer.
If Mallett doesn't develop an injury bug I think he's our guy.
I agree that the Texans have Mallett and nobody else near that level, if I'm not clear on that. Except for O'Brien's confidence though, Mallett has not proven anything except that he has great potential. He has to reach that potential though, and there is no doubt he gets that chance next year. There are many QBs that reach their potential at the NFL level, and many that do not.
We won't have to wait long (in Texans years) to find out.
Savage showed a lot of promise and deserves an honest look.
All in all the 2015 Texans offseason should move on from QB and on to other needs.
Mallett, Savage and Keenum should sufficiently diffuse the QB situation that the Texans don't need to reach for one. In fact, unless Mariota or Winston fall to the Texans, should they even consider either.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Absolutely Mallett has to prove it at the NFL level.
It's just I read a few comments that they were both 1st round talents who fell for various reasons. That just isn't true. Mallett's play earned him 1st round consideration. Savage's did not. He is pure projection.
It's tarnished (hopefully rehabbed) has been v. never was.
It's just I read a few comments that they were both 1st round talents who fell for various reasons. That just isn't true. Mallett's play earned him 1st round consideration. Savage's did not. He is pure projection.
It's tarnished (hopefully rehabbed) has been v. never was.
Here's what I'm reading
Mallett shows promise and we wish and hope he's as good as he looked in 1 game
Fitz is a career back up
Savage has potential
I agree with all of the above, but what do we do if Mallett ain't all that? If Savage is nothing more than potential and unrealized hype?
I don't see a QB early in this draft, there are no QB's better going to be FA, so what do we do? Pay too much and try to trade for one? Wait another few years?
Mallett shows promise and we wish and hope he's as good as he looked in 1 game
Fitz is a career back up
Savage has potential
I agree with all of the above, but what do we do if Mallett ain't all that? If Savage is nothing more than potential and unrealized hype?
I don't see a QB early in this draft, there are no QB's better going to be FA, so what do we do? Pay too much and try to trade for one? Wait another few years?
Honoring Earl 34
Something Witty !
If you're down and confused
And you don't remember who you're talking to
Concentration slips away
Cause you're QB is so far away
CHORUS
Well he throws without a glove
And eagle flies with the dove
And if you can't be with the one you want
want the one you're with
Don't be angry - don't be sad
Don't sit crying over good times you've had
There's a QB right next to you
And he's just waiting for something to do
CHORUS
Omaha Omaha Omaha
Turn your heartache right into joy
Cause he's a QB and you're a fan
Get it together come on make it nice
You ain't gonna need anymore advice
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
I think that while tremendously unsettled the Texans are in a position that they don't have to force a QB choice. OTOH I wouldn't rule one in the 1st 2 rounds out either. After that I basically would rule one out absent some bizarre scenario that Winston slides all the way to the 3rd.
It's not like they're finding the next Tom Brady in the first round either. There are more first round QBs that haven't won the Super Bowl than there are those that have.
I'm all about doing something different, but I'm not going to draft Johnny Manziel in the first round because Tj Yates turned out to be blah...
We need to start stock piling future draft picks, so we won't be in this no-man's land next time there is a franchise QB in the draft.
How many draft picks do you think it would have taken the Colts to give up the draft rights to Luck?
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
You act like you can just put them in a bank account and earn interest on them. It doesn't work that way.
And in the meantime you aren't addressing other needs.
And even if they did, who the hell would trade away the rights to a true future franchise qb?
Nothing confusing to me...the Texans are about to walk into right into QB purgatory (or is it really hell) where every young QB who shows anything at all is the next savior and/or some "I rather be my back-up" veteran is getting us through another year...lots of 6-10 to 9-7 football unless we get lucky with finding a guy by abnormal means
exactly! Yet we're to pin our hopes on Mallett and give it 5 or 6 years to find another to pin it on.
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
And you know this how?
We don't know, yet, what strategy OB and Smith are going to take with our QB position. We've all made our assessments and have our suspicions but we don't know.
I personally think Mallett is going to be a very good QB but that's just my opinion and I know a lot of people think he's a stinking piece of crap. And they could be right.
But we don't know what OB thinks and we don't know how he's going to handle this.
They might give Mallett the keys. They might give Savage a shot to win the job. They might give Keenum and Fitzy another shot.
But they might fall in love with some guy in the draft and make a huge trade to go get him.
The QB situation has to be fixed for this team to make the next step. I don't think OB is so stupid that he doesn't realize that.
And that is why I asked the question
What do we do, where are we at if Mallett is not the guy. I think he is. But I'm hoping that an "in case" plan.
Do we ignore qb completely now? Do we look for another gun to groom?
Do we build up our team around the QB so that a game manager like Fitz can lead us to the promised land?
I'm just trying to play a little devils advocate to both the side that thinks Mallett is it and the side that thinks we should sacrifice to try to get the best QB in the draft now.
Odds are that Mallett aint all that and that Savage is .... unrealized potential.
I think Mariota has it between the ears to be a quality NFL starter , doubt that he's in the top tier but will be a guy you can win with.
Winston .... all the tools and a Blunderlick of minus 6. Will he play on Sunday or will he be in jail ?!
Hundley is intriguing .... and wont come with the cost those two will.
Grayson ... I like sometimes.
Odds are that if we keep drafting guys like Savage , we'll be waiting 20 years to find that diamond in the rough .... and still be waiting.
Odds aren't a whole lot better if we're drafting first round quarterbacks .... We could be waiting a decade. More 6-10 and 9-7 seasons .... ugh.
Hurry up and wait.
We're already in that hell .... That's what we have done the past two seasons.
First its Yates then he threw a pick six too , next was Keenum who went 0-8 as a starter.
Next up is Fitz but anyone who expected him to be anything more than what he was ... was delusional after a decade in the league.
Mallett .... One decent game followed by a poor one and an injury that ends his season.
Then its Savage who couldn't field a snap , make up all the excuses you want but this dude couldn't get field the snap!
Back to Keenum who finally gets a W .... All he did was not lose the game.
Who's next years "savior"?
We gotta get lucky and find one of those abnormal guys you are talking about .... Or we'll be doing what the Cleveland Browns did for a decade.
ChampionTexan
Hall of Fame
So you're saying they're gonna be the football version of the '09/'10 - '11/'12 Rockets?
Or, we do what the Ravens did and make the defense so stout, the OL and running game very good that a game manager like Dilfer can lead us to the super bowl.
I'm starting to lean in this latter direction.
If we have or stumble on a very good QB, or one that can come up big when needed then great. But if they don't, then have a '85 Bears type defense to carry us thru
If we had hired Whisenhunt, Gruden, Jimbo Fisher, or any HC other than Bill O'Brien, we wouldn't have had any interest in him either. He'd have ended up in Minnesota, or Tampa Bay, or where ever Bill O'Brien had landed.
Mallett's primary value to us is knowledge of the system. So we can go on & beat the bad teams on our schedule, without having to teach a young QB how to tie his shoe-laces. He may turn out to be no better than Fitzpatrick, then we'll turn to Savage, & if he's no good OB can protect him the way he's protected Fitz.
But if either Mallett or Savage has half the snap of Fitz, they can be our new Schaub. Until we can find our Brady.
If the best choices we have are similar to the ones we just had, Bortles, Manziel, Bridgewater... I'd rather pass again.
I don't like Fitzpatrick, but I'd rather he start again next year than waste a 1st rounder on a guy that will be like Matt Stafford & hopefully get us to 8-8, or 10 wins every once in a while, when we know a third rounder like Matt Schaub can do the same thing.
If we're going to take a 1st rounder, the guy needs to be 8 out of 10, not 7 or 6.
But we don't know that the 3rd rounder "like Schaub" can deliver those results.
Every prospect is a gamble , we don't know what they will deliver until we see it on an NFL field .... the game is so much faster and more complicated than college its almost impossible to know how a quarterback is going to translate to the NFL. That's why its the hardest position to fill in all of sports.
Manziel was the 2nd QB taken this year.
I think it's safe to say true "1st round talent" was lacking this year.
We settled on a guy without the production you'd like to see in a first rounder, but at least he's got the physical gifts.
beerlover
Hall of Fame
nobody knows
throw Case back into it now, nobody knows. Love his attitude however, I hope his time with team lasts, he sure seems like a Texan through & through.
Savage, obviously small sample size but his lack of footwork & ability to avoid direct contact a huge concern. I see some kind of settlement.
Fitz has grown on me but playbook does not flow through him, more like forced by design. Great competitor/person just not best fit going forward.
Mallet was like a super Nova, bright & full of promise then just extinguished once got his shot. I would not throw a lot of money @ him as will some other teams so unless he really wants to take less to play for Texans he's gone.
This is Texas go big or go home. Mariota would cost a fortune but well worth investment. Winston may just come close enough to pick that Texans trade up a few spots for a 3rd/4th to get him.
In closing I'm going to finish like I started, nobody knows :wadepalm:
After watching the season ..... HWWNBM2.0 should have been the first QB taken and was probably taken at about the right time.
infantrycak
Hall of Fame
Matt Schaub was an over achieving 3rd who had the opportunity to sit for 3 years. That is not the performance you can expect out of 3rd round QBs generally.
Who would they have drafted if Luck came out the year before?
23 teams passed on Aaron Rodgers. Rothlisberger was drafted at 11, so was Cutler & Flacco went at 18, Andy Dalton at 35.
I include Cutler, not because I think he is/was a first round talent, but because someone did, enough to trade up to get him. I include Flacco because he generally plays well in the play-offs & was instrumental to winning a Super Bowl.
I include Dalton because he started every game since his rookie season & he's made the play offs ever since.
What do you think of Derek Carr? He went 0-9 as a starter.
Remember in our first game against Indy this year? When Luck fumbled the snap, Jj recovered... that was some funny stuff right there.
He didn't
And none was considered a franchise QB other than Luck. Your proposition is stock up draft picks for a franchise QB. Luck is the only one that had that promise coming in. If you want to say stock up draft picks to get a chance to roll the dice that's another thing.
You can't have it both ways TK. Either say your gonna stockpile and trade for that can't miss prospect, or say your gonna save up draft picks and hope you get lucky. You can't have both
I don't think this franchise could have drafted him because of the history .... He does have talent. Prototypical size , good mobility , good accuracy and pocket awareness. He escaped the game against the Texans without being sacked if my memory is correct.
I remember the Superbowl .... PeyMeATon chasing down that snap.
But that wasn't the same as Savages mistake(s). That one was on the center , these were on Savage.
I like to watch Manning .... Lose. I really hate that guy .... because he doesn't play for my team.
I have a little more faith in the guys doing the picking... sometimes it's flat out wrong (Shanahan failed twice with Cutler & RGIII)...
My only argument is that we shouldn't "plan" to suck so we can get a good QB. That "plan" hasn't worked out well for us. I want to accumulate future draft picks so we can go get the QB we want, instead of wait for him to fall to us.
ok, I can understand that, as long as you understand it won't be a "can't miss" franchise type QB ala Luck. Maybe we can get lucky and get a hard worker with the tools ala Rodgers
The Pencil Neck
Hall of Fame
All 32 teams are searching for "that guy"... until they get one OR think they might have one.
All these people are investing all this time and energy and research into figuring out which guys from a draft are "that guy" and almost all of them keep coming up empty.
To me, that means that this is not a science at all. No one has the answer. Anyone who says they have it figured out is fooling themselves.
You just have to get lucky.
There are some problems that work out that way, where it doesn't matter how hard you work, or how much time you spend analyzing it. You have to be in the right place at the right time make the right move and then provide the right situation with the right coaches and the right supporting cast so the guy can develop properly.
Having the #1 pick in the draft doesn't matter if "that guy" isn't there to be drafted. Having a huge amount of cap space to throw a ton of money at a great veteran QB doesn't matter if the great veteran QB isn't available. And if you do get that guy, you can ruin him by not giving him the right weapons or by sticking him into the wrong offensive scheme.
We might not solve our QB problem in the next few years. It may be that in the next few years, there's simply not going to be a guy available where we can get him and we may be stuck in QB hell and there may not be a single thing that OB or Smith can do about it.
I haven't gone into draft mode, yet. I haven't started looking at the prospects to get an idea for who I like or don't like. But from what I'm hearing, there may not be anyone in the draft who solves our problem. If that's the case, we have to hope that either Mallett is the guy or Savage develops into the guy by next year.
All these people are investing all this time and energy and research into figuring out which guys from a draft are "that guy" and almost all of them keep coming up empty.
To me, that means that this is not a science at all. No one has the answer. Anyone who says they have it figured out is fooling themselves.
You just have to get lucky.
There are some problems that work out that way, where it doesn't matter how hard you work, or how much time you spend analyzing it. You have to be in the right place at the right time make the right move and then provide the right situation with the right coaches and the right supporting cast so the guy can develop properly.
Having the #1 pick in the draft doesn't matter if "that guy" isn't there to be drafted. Having a huge amount of cap space to throw a ton of money at a great veteran QB doesn't matter if the great veteran QB isn't available. And if you do get that guy, you can ruin him by not giving him the right weapons or by sticking him into the wrong offensive scheme.
We might not solve our QB problem in the next few years. It may be that in the next few years, there's simply not going to be a guy available where we can get him and we may be stuck in QB hell and there may not be a single thing that OB or Smith can do about it.
I haven't gone into draft mode, yet. I haven't started looking at the prospects to get an idea for who I like or don't like. But from what I'm hearing, there may not be anyone in the draft who solves our problem. If that's the case, we have to hope that either Mallett is the guy or Savage develops into the guy by next year.
So, shouldn't we concentrate building the best team around that guy for now? Our defense and defensive depth is not that far away. Should the conversation be Who is our next FS, or CB, or ILB that is going to take this defense up a notch? Or maybe solidify the OL ala the Cowboys?
I really don't know, but I dont like relying on luck to carry us to the promised land. I want to see the Texans with a ring before I die.
Vance87
All Pro
We have 3 "possible" answers on this team at QB. I am including Keenum even though I really don't think he is the guy, although I'd love for him to prove me wrong.
Building a great team is priority 1, always has been and will be. Reaching in the dark for a QB ain't gonna work, there is no 'miracle' position in the NFL.
sandman
Brexit Advisor
So I was looking at the Top 20 rated QB's this season:
6 x #1 draft pick
6 x #3-#11 draft picks
1 x #18
1 x #24
1 x #32
1 x 3rd Rounder
1 x 4th Rounder
3 x 6th Rounder or below (including UDFA)
So clearly, the odds state that if you get a QB in the 1st round, you've got a pretty good shot.
Then you look at the QB's drafted in the first round for the years between Mario and Clowney, the Texans 1-1 picks in years with no viable QB to go at the top:
2007: Texans have #10 (bust pick on Okoye)
Russell 1-1
Quinn 1-22
2008: Texans have #26 (Duane Brown)
Ryan 1-3
Flacco 1-18
2009: Texans have #15 (Brian Cushing)
Stafford 1-1
Sanchez 1-5
Freeman 1-17
2010: Texans have #20 (Kareem Jackson)
Bradford 1-1
Tebow 1-25
2011: Texans have #11 (JJ Watt)
Newton 1-1
Locker 1-8
Gabbert 1-10
2012: Texans have #26 (Whitney Mercilus)
Luck 1-1
RG III 1-2
Tannehill 1-8
2013: Texans have #27 (DeAndre Hopkins)
Manuel 1-16
Giving yourself the benefit of hindsight, which of these QB's would you have drafted in the first round instead of the player that was drafted. And how would you have realistically traded up to make that happen?
2008 with Ryan and Flacco, but there was no way Texans were moving from #26 to get Ryan, and Flacco wasn't Flacco until the SB run so not sure that move at the time would have been worth the risk.
2009? Could they have moved from 15 to 1 to get Stafford? That is a big trade down for Detroit who badly needed a QB.
2012? Never would have happened with Indy needing a QB and only having the #26 pick. Everyone thought Miami reached at #8 for Tannehill.
Oh sure, there have a few lower round QB's that have done very well in these drafts, but if the conversation is that the Texans never go big in the first round to invest in a QB, I'd say they never had an opportunity to pick someone who would have made a difference. And luckily passed on a lot of bad QB's in the first round.
6 x #1 draft pick
6 x #3-#11 draft picks
1 x #18
1 x #24
1 x #32
1 x 3rd Rounder
1 x 4th Rounder
3 x 6th Rounder or below (including UDFA)
So clearly, the odds state that if you get a QB in the 1st round, you've got a pretty good shot.
Then you look at the QB's drafted in the first round for the years between Mario and Clowney, the Texans 1-1 picks in years with no viable QB to go at the top:
2007: Texans have #10 (bust pick on Okoye)
Russell 1-1
Quinn 1-22
2008: Texans have #26 (Duane Brown)
Ryan 1-3
Flacco 1-18
2009: Texans have #15 (Brian Cushing)
Stafford 1-1
Sanchez 1-5
Freeman 1-17
2010: Texans have #20 (Kareem Jackson)
Bradford 1-1
Tebow 1-25
2011: Texans have #11 (JJ Watt)
Newton 1-1
Locker 1-8
Gabbert 1-10
2012: Texans have #26 (Whitney Mercilus)
Luck 1-1
RG III 1-2
Tannehill 1-8
2013: Texans have #27 (DeAndre Hopkins)
Manuel 1-16
Giving yourself the benefit of hindsight, which of these QB's would you have drafted in the first round instead of the player that was drafted. And how would you have realistically traded up to make that happen?
2008 with Ryan and Flacco, but there was no way Texans were moving from #26 to get Ryan, and Flacco wasn't Flacco until the SB run so not sure that move at the time would have been worth the risk.
2009? Could they have moved from 15 to 1 to get Stafford? That is a big trade down for Detroit who badly needed a QB.
2012? Never would have happened with Indy needing a QB and only having the #26 pick. Everyone thought Miami reached at #8 for Tannehill.
Oh sure, there have a few lower round QB's that have done very well in these drafts, but if the conversation is that the Texans never go big in the first round to invest in a QB, I'd say they never had an opportunity to pick someone who would have made a difference. And luckily passed on a lot of bad QB's in the first round.
Marshall
Not pretty, but ALIVE!
I'm holding out hope for 32...