What is Sage's value?--Sage Frustrated

[CloakNNNdagger]

So.. are you for or against a trade or not?

Unquestionably against the trade.............until proven otherwise, I feel that Sage still has the potential to end up the Texans' best long term starter. He was on a roll the second half of last season.......let him prove that he is only a "flash in the pan".........if he outplays Schaub in preseason, give him the chance to prove that he can sustain the performance we are looking for out of our QB.

 

[hollywood_texan]

Unquestionably against the trade.............until proven otherwise, I feel that Sage still has the potential to end up the Texans' best long term starter. He was on a roll the second half of last season.......let him prove that he is only a "flash in the pan".........if he outplays Schaub in preseason, give him the chance to prove that he can sustain the performance we are looking for out of our QB.

Then the Schaub trade was pointless.

It's amazing the investment and effort the Texans have made for the QB position with very little return.

If your concerns about Schaub are right, Rosenfels as the backup QB or starter, it really doesn't matter. The Texans are still the doormat of the AFC South...

There are just too many holes on this team and without a quality/durable QB to make a difference.

 

[Errant Hothy]

Unquestionably against the trade.............until proven otherwise, I feel that Sage still has the potential to end up the Texans' best long term starter. He was on a roll the second half of last season.......let him prove that he is only a "flash in the pan".........if he outplays Schaub in preseason, give him the chance to prove that he can sustain the performance we are looking for out of our QB.

Hasn't his career already proven that he is a "flash in the pan"?

The Chargers had Brees and Rivers, what did they end with when Brees left?

The Titans got a 6th or 7th, I can't recall, for Volek; who was considered one of the better back-ups at the time.

Garcia has been a better back-up and starter then Sage, and yet I don't think any team has every received a draft pick when he left.

To the Texans, I would have to believe a third pick in the Top 100 woud benefit the team more then Sage.

 

[Joe Texan]

Like I said earlier. If Sage is at the helm, we're not making the playoffs.

To the Texans, I would have to believe a third pick in the Top 100 woud benefit the team more then Sage.
22 Minutes Ago 09:04 PM

If your concerns about Schaub are right, Rosenfels as the backup QB or starter, it really doesn't matter. The Texans are still the doormat of the AFC South...

Sounds like you guys just want to be heard

Sage is too valuable to let go for a 3, even a late 2

He is a back up that can jump right in and start for any team. If a team has a hole then they will pony up a 1st to get at Sage.
Vikes just trying to get over on us and i do believe our front office is too smart to bite on that puny worm like the above quoted people did

 

[GP]

Absolutely NOT

Sage is a Texan and a Great Back up who should be starting. We should have left Schaub with the dirty birds but now we have two great QB's. Mrs. Schaub gets hit in the pinky and we need Sage more than any pick so NO WAY.

I sure am glad all you Boneheads who say do the deal are just that, Boneheads

Great post.

I am sick and tired of the "The hits Schaub took would take ANY Qb out...it's not fair to say Schaub is fragile..." arguments are weak.

Sage knows how to slide around in the pocket, step up just enough to get the pass off, or just t o let the darn thing go PERIOD. Schaub is killing himself, he's trying too hard too early. He's looking like a guy who is pushing too much and he's paying a HUGE price for it.

We DO have a QB controversy. People need to stop pretending this is a one QB team. That ended when David Carr got cut.

 

[Texanmike02]

Sounds like you guys just want to be heard

Sage is too valuable to let go for a 3, even a late 2

He is a back up that can jump right in and start for any team. If a team has a hole then they will pony up a 1st to get at Sage.
Vikes just trying to get over on us and i do believe our front office is too smart to bite on that puny worm like the above quoted people did

Joe give me a break. I just want to be heard? I'm as passionate about this as anyone, and to be quite honest... I just have an opinion . I don't think Sage is good enough to get us to the playoffs. If GK or RS thought he was the we probably wouldn't have done the Schaub deal in the first place. Schaub and Sage are very similar right now if you ask me. The difference though, is that Schaub hasn't his his ceiling yet... I don't think he's come close to it. Sage has. If we wind up with the same QB play this year that we got last year then we won't make the playoffs. Sage is going to be the same. Hopefully Matt shows some improvement. Now if the front office is doing this to get more value out of Sage, then hell yes, I'm all for it. But if I get my choice between a guy who might see the field next year as a starter, and a guy who might wind up on the bench all season.... well you know what I'm going to say.

Mike

 

[was385]

The Texans are going to have to make a gamble on this one. Sure, trading Sage leaves us in a lot more valuable position without that great backup behind Schaub, but at the same time, with one of them starting and one of them on the bench, this team isn't going forward. If we can snag a second rounder for Sage, you gotta do it. That pick allows the Texans to fill another big hole on this team, whether it be in the backfield, on the line, or in the secondary, and then you just gotta pray that Schaub stays healthy. This team has too many holes to sit on a valuable QB like this and have him riding the bench.

 

[steelbtexan]

If we could trade Sage for a 3rd & used it to pick up Lito Sheppard how would the board feel about this?

I think I would breathe hard & make the trade.

 

[Errant Hothy]

What do D. Anderson, B. Roethlisberger, T. Brady, P. Manning, E. Manning, T. Romo, B. Favre, M. Hasselback, and P. Rivers all have in common?

Well beside leading their teams to better recods then the Texans finished with, none of them missed a game due to injury.

Of the 12 playoff QBs, only 3 miseed playing time to an injury. Todd Collins was the onlu back-up to actual play in the playoffs.

So whats the moral of this post, playoff caliber teams do not rely on their back-up QBs to get them to the playoffs. So if y'all think the Texans are ready to challenge for a playoff spot, then why would the need to rely on Sage to get them their.

And Joe, if anybody on this board loves to read their own words more then you...I have not come across them yet.

 

[Texanmike02]

What do D. Anderson, B. Roethlisberger, T. Brady, P. Manning, E. Manning, T. Romo, B. Favre, M. Hasselback, and P. Rivers all have in common?

Well beside leading their teams to better recods then the Texans finished with, none of them missed a game due to injury.

Of the 12 playoff QBs, only 3 miseed playing time to an injury. Todd Collins was the onlu back-up to actual play in the playoffs.

So whats the moral of this post, playoff caliber teams do not rely on their back-up QBs to get them to the playoffs. So if y'all think the Texans are ready to challenge for a playoff spot, then why would the need to rely on Sage to get them their.

And Joe, if anybody on this board loves to read their own words more then you...I have not come across them yet.

I did a thing with the numbers for the last 10 years (prior to this season) and it was astonishing the number of QB's that missed fewer than 2 games to make the playoffs vs those that started 14 or fewer. I'll look and see if I can find it... or I'll do it again.

Mike

 

[HoustonFrog]

Great post.

I am sick and tired of the "The hits Schaub took would take ANY Qb out...it's not fair to say Schaub is fragile..." arguments are weak.

Sage knows how to slide around in the pocket, step up just enough to get the pass off, or just t o let the darn thing go PERIOD. Schaub is killing himself, he's trying too hard too early. He's looking like a guy who is pushing too much and he's paying a HUGE price for it.

We DO have a QB controversy. People need to stop pretending this is a one QB team. That ended when David Carr got cut.

No we don't. I thought people had finally talked some sense into people after the last couple of games. Sage is not a starter and won't be our starter unless there is an ijury...period.

 

[b0ng]

No we don't. I thought people had finally talked some sense into people after the last couple of games. Sage is not a starter and won't be our starter unless there is an ijury...period.

"Whichever QB throws the most INT's in one season wins. Readysetgo!"

I mean, if we're going to have a made up QB controversey, might as well take it to the most ludicrous extreme we can.

 

[J-Russ]

Dec. 27, 2007, 11:50PM
Though the Texans have faith in backup Sage Rosenfels, there's no doubt Matt Schaub is the starter when healthy
Let's recap: No QB quandary

By DALE ROBERTSON
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

Further, Schaub's backup, Sage Rosenfels, created a measure of dissonance by emerging as a player to be taken seriously in debates about who should start next season.

Statistically, Rosenfels has delivered a better year, throwing for 14 touchdown passes to Schaub's nine despite significantly less playing time. Schaub's turnovers - nine interceptions plus three fumbles are a source of concern, too.

"He's got to protect the ball better," coach Gary Kubiak said.

Matt's still the man
Nonetheless, Kubiak and Schaub's teammates seem to be in full agreement that Schaub has done nothing to lose his grip on the team's reins because his body hasn't been overly protected, either. Matt's still the man, they say.

"Everybody knows Matt Schaub is our starting quarterback," guard Chester Pitts said. "We know Sage is the real deal, too. Any doubts anybody might have had about him are gone."

Star receiver Andre Johnson insisted: "There's no (quarterback) controversy here. Everyone gets on real well, including Matt and Sage with each other. We don't have any cliques. Everyone is on the same page."

Kubiak said he is only disappointed in Schaub's season becoming abbreviated, not in what the former Atlanta Falcon showed when he was healthy.

"I expected a lot from Matt," he said. "Just from being with him early in training camp I thought he would play well, which he did. And he continued to play well with injuries around him. We just have to get him out there for 16 weeks."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5407815.html

Article I found from awhile back...

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5407815.html

Article I found from awhile back...

................And what would you expect them to say publicly??

 

[b0ng]

................And what would you expect them to say publicly??

"Whomever plays the best in preseason and training camp will be our day 1 starter, book it."

Seriously, it's grasping at straws when you're trying to convince people that what they say is not what they mean. If Sage plays his way into the starting role then great, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Schaub hasn't shown enough negatives to lose the starting job, and Sage hasn't shown enough positives to win it.

 

[mussop]

Of course, there are examples that support 2 qbs:

NYGiants in 91- Simms, Hostetler
Pittsburgh- Kordell and ODonnell, Batch and Rothlisburger
KC- Trent Green and what's his name
Phillie- McNabb and Feeley, Detmer
St Louis- Warner and Green


that's off the top of my head. I also think there may still be some long term doubt as to how Schaub will pan out. And, both contracts are up in '09... So, I think they'll be careful about losing Sage under they are sure of Schaub's durability. Sage did after all go 4-1 in 5 starts, not to mention what he almost did in the Tennessee game. He's a great bargain for us.

Montanna and Young.

 

[Ole Miss Texan]

It's Schaub's job to lose... end of story.

 

[The Pencil Neck]

Of course, there are examples that support 2 qbs:

NYGiants in 91- Simms, Hostetler
Pittsburgh- Kordell and ODonnell, Batch and Rothlisburger
KC- Trent Green and what's his name
Phillie- McNabb and Feeley, Detmer
St Louis- Warner and Green


that's off the top of my head.

The first one that came to my mind was the Dolphin's perfect season and the second was the year the Ravens won with Dilfer and Banks starting.

 

[ObsiWan]

Big Ben says that experience isnt the only thing that matters.

Oooh don't go there.

"Big Ben" was the beneficiary of a stout running game and a strong defense.
We're working on the strong defense but we're quite a bit away from a "stout running game".

 

[ObsiWan]

If we could trade Sage for a 3rd & used it to pick up Lito Sheppard how would the board feel about this?

I think I would breathe hard & make the trade.

Verrrry interesting....
IF we had absolute confirmation from the Iggles that they'd do the Lito Sheppard for our 3rd round pick deal, I might have to think about that for a bit....

 

[Texanmike02]

Montanna and Young.

that is PRE-CAP era. The game has changed now. There is always the chance that you have a star lurking on your bench. Bledsoe-brady is the best example but your chances decrease significantly. Its not like Sage is going to become Manning next week. Wow.

I'm always amazed at how people I usually hold in high regard completely throw logic out the window. THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS TO THE RULE. That doesn't mean that you should try to be the exception and think that gives you the best shot at winning.

Mike

 

[gafftop]

Do you think anybody would make the deal we made to get Schaub now??
Could we get (2) 2nds and move up in the first round if we traded Schaub now? Would you do this? I would in a heartbeat, but I know there is no one out there that would do this. Why did we??? I think we could have gotten him for a lot less. Would you trade Schaub for (2) 2nds and a better position in the 1st round??

 

[PHAROAH]

Verrrry interesting....
IF we had absolute confirmation from the Iggles that they'd do the Lito Sheppard for our 3rd round pick deal, I might have to think about that for a bit....

I would do that in a heartbeat Sage is mediocre and played good in a back up role and that's all he is a back up so get something while his stock is up.

 

[ObsiWan]

Do you think anybody would make the deal we made to get Schaub now??
Could we get (2) 2nds and move up in the first round if we traded Schaub now? Would you do this? I would in a heartbeat, but I know there is no one out there that would do this. Why did we??? I think we could have gotten him for a lot less. Would you trade Schaub for (2) 2nds and a better position in the 1st round??

Hmmmm, had we not made that deal in early 07, Schaub would have played out the year in Atlanta since Vick spent the season on suspension. And given that Vick is still a current resident of Hotel Fed, I doubt Schaub would even be available. God <<shudder>> we might be the ones stuck with Joey Harrington.

Why did we? that's a rhetorical question, right?

Would you trade Schaub for (2) 2nds and a better position in the 1st round?? Would I do it today? No. I know what I have in Schaub and I like it. And if we do that deal today, we have no starter (or quality back-up assuming Rosenfels starts) so we'd have to turn around and give up what we just dealt for to get an equal value replacement. IMHO, there are no stud QBs in this draft. Hell, I'd argue there really weren't any in last year's draft (and no, I'm not sold on Brady Quinn). If you make that deal today, you've weakened the team, not made it better.

 

[maddogmrb]

It's Schaub's job to lose... end of story.

IMO, that's the problem. He was ANNOINTED the starter upon the trade without any real history to warrant it. Sage had better stats and better wins last year but, Schaub is still the starter? Shouldn't the coaches, team, and fans want the QB out there who gives them the best chance to win .... whichever one that is?

 

[GP]

No we don't. I thought people had finally talked some sense into people after the last couple of games. Sage is not a starter and won't be our starter unless there is an ijury...period.

Yes we do.

Of the two QBs we have right now, we don't have a definitive starter.

We have two backups who are on the verge of being a starter. Schaub was not a starting QB with years of starting experience when we traded for him. People are PRETENDING that we acquired a starter in Matt Schaub. We didn't.

We speculated that he could start. A lot of Falcons fans tried to tell us he wouldn't be mobile enough...and we sorta' laughed them off. I see a guy who played the first game and looked sharp getting away from center--crisp steps, good footwork--and then he just began to slow down and the pass rush was on him wayyyy to quickly over the next few games.

Seeing Sage come in and rescue a season that was lloking to be flushed down the drain...well, it was a relief. The whole offense seemed to pick it up a step; there was a confidence in the huddle and on the field. Granted, Sage knows the offense and the players a lot better.

If anything makes me laugh, it's the "games" we play--and the games coaches play--when the proverbial "We don't have a QB controversy" comments start rolling out. As soon as THOSE comments start rolling out, then you absolutely 100% know you have a competition going on. You don't hear the words "QB controversy" in Indy or New England...it's not even in the dictionary in those two places.

When you have to openly "deny" that there's a QB controversy...there IS one. Period.

Geesh, I'd think that Texans fans wouldn't care WHO started as long as it was the MAN who deserved to have the gig. After 5 years of David Carr, we kinda' need to let go of this pipe dream of being able to pencil in a starter and defend him to no end. You guys do realize that you're doing the same thing with Schaub that a lot of us (including ME) did with David?

Sitting around trashing people like me who just want SOMEONE to win the job and do it consistently, and therefore defending a backup QB like Schaub as if he's been a starter for years, is puzzling.

I am a Texans fan. Not a Sage fan. Not a Schaub fan. I think they shold battle it out. And I think there's a lot of truth to what the Titans' Haynesworth said when he said "I bet Sage would have liked to have seen some of that starting money!" We rolled the dice on Schaub, and I supported it when it happened, but I'm retreating on it...I don't think Schaub is the guy for the long term. I just don't. Out of the two backup QBs we have, I'd say they're pretty even in the race for the starting job right now.

8-8 is a lot better than 2-14. Kubiak and Smith are doing a great job. I'm glad we have Sage-Schaub to argue about...and not who our next HC shold be and why our GM is such a moron. Thank God THOSE days are gone.

 

[maddogmrb]

Do you think anybody would make the deal we made to get Schaub now??
Could we get (2) 2nds and move up in the first round if we traded Schaub now? Would you do this? I would in a heartbeat, but I know there is no one out there that would do this. Why did we??? I think we could have gotten him for a lot less. Would you trade Schaub for (2) 2nds and a better position in the 1st round??

I think ObsiWan missed the point. I don't believe there is another team in the league that would give us 2-2nd round picks and change places in the 1st round for Schaub now, and I don't think anyone else would've done it when we made the trade ...... we were just desperate. Okay, name me one other #2 QB in the league right now that you would give up what we did for Schaub.

 

[GP]

IMO, that's the problem. He was ANNOINTED the starter upon the trade without any real history to warrant it. Sage had better stats and better wins last year but, Schaub is still the starter? Shouldn't the coaches, team, and fans want the QB out there who gives them the best chance to win .... whichever one that is?

Careful now. You're approaching reason and logic. Back away now unless you want to be painted as a moron and put on ignore lists.

I agree with your post. And found it funny that you were posting this at the same time. You said what I said, but in less words. Nicely done.

 

[maddogmrb]

Careful now. You're approaching reason and logic. Back away now unless you want to be painted as a moron and put on ignore lists.

I agree with your post. And found it funny that you were posting this at the same time. You said what I said, but in less words. Nicely done.

GP, I was "painted" last year when I opposed the trade and said we gave up too much and when I said (as I am this year) that to be a "complete" team we need to be more aggressive in free agency - which it appears, even with more cap space, we are once again taking a passive approach.

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

GP, I tried give you rep but must spread.

 

[GP]

GP, I was "painted" last year when I opposed the trade and said we gave up too much and when I said (as I am this year) that to be a "complete" team we need to be more aggressive in free agency - which it appears, even with more cap space, we are once again taking a passive approach.

And I also said last year "I don't think McNair is in this to really challenge for a title. I think he's a 'business owner' who watches the bottom line and desires to keep this franchise as profitable as possible. We're the LA Clippers of the NFL."

For that, I was roasted and flamed to no end: "How dare you accuse the guy who brought NFL back to Houston as someone who doesn't want to win?!"

My response was: Well, let's see how much of this HUGE cap space we'll actually use. Clock is ticking...

I'm not a troll, but I've been painted as one. I just have no ability to go along with the majority anymore. We're better than we were before Kubiak and Smith. But we have a looooooong way to go.

Elevating Schaub to the throne is not in the overall best interests of this team, especially as we look at our recent past history with this sort of thinking. It's just not. True competition is what helps a team get BETTER.

 

[Errant Hothy]

IMO, that's the problem. He was ANNOINTED the starter upon the trade without any real history to warrant it. Sage had better stats and better wins last year but, Schaub is still the starter? Shouldn't the coaches, team, and fans want the QB out there who gives them the best chance to win .... whichever one that is?

Yup, Sage's 12 INTs were sure better then Schaub's 9...right?

 

[GP]

GP, I tried give you rep but must spread.

Well, you and probably one other poster has actually been brave enough to come out and agree/understand what I have been thinking and posting.

For this supposedly being an "opinion" board...I am laughing at how little tolerance the majority of posters have for things that go against them. HoustonFrog is a guy who relentlessly tracks me down and even gets personal with me (in his responses to my posts). And then others follow suit and pile onto me. Makes a guy feel like he's really welcomed around here!

We have two backup QBs trying to solidify a starting position. Period.

 

[GP]

Yup, Sage's 12 INTs were sure better then Schaub's 9...right?

We have two backup QBs trying to solidify a starting position.

One question: If Sage outplayed Schaub in the preseason, would you be behind him and support Sage as the starter in Game 1?

If Schaub outplayed Sage and won the gig...I'd be behind the starter.

 

[otisbean]

Yup, Sage's 12 INTs were sure better then Schaub's 9...right?

Additionally, he threw multiple balls that should have been picked off but the opposing DBs dropped. You can also argue that Schaub didn't get the benefit of AJs services which would have undoubtedly improved his stats. I like Sage and I think he is a good backup but I would trade him in a heartbeat for the right deal. Then I would go the Bucs and trade a low pick for one of the 37 QBs as my back up or try to draft Dixon in the late rounds. I think his knee injury is going to push him down in the draft quite a bit.

 

[Errant Hothy]

We have two backup QBs trying to solidify a starting position.

One question: If Sage outplayed Schaub in the preseason, would you be behind him and support Sage as the starter in Game 1?

If Schaub outplayed Sage and won the gig...I'd be behind the starter.

If they had equal time against the opposing 1st team Ds, and the coaches said that Sage was the better option..I would absolutly support him.

If the FO staff said that moving Sage for a draft pick was the best move for the team, would you support the move?

 

[otisbean]

And I also said last year "I don't think McNair is in this to really challenge for a title. I think he's a 'business owner' who watches the bottom line and desires to keep this franchise as profitable as possible. We're the LA Clippers of the NFL."

For that, I was roasted and flamed to no end: "How dare you accuse the guy who brought NFL back to Houston as someone who doesn't want to win?!"

My response was: Well, let's see how much of this HUGE cap space we'll actually use. Clock is ticking...

I'm not a troll, but I've been painted as one. I just have no ability to go along with the majority anymore. We're better than we were before Kubiak and Smith. But we have a looooooong way to go.

Elevating Schaub to the throne is not in the overall best interests of this team, especially as we look at our recent past history with this sort of thinking. It's just not. True competition is what helps a team get BETTER.

History has shown that you have to be careful with cap space. Lots of teams have spent big $$$ with little to no results - SF, Wash, ect...

I don't think using cap space is the determining factor for the owner being dedicated to winning. He let Kubes get rid of Carr and I believe that cost us some money. He let Casserly spend quite a bit during FA (of course most of it was spent unwisely). I think Mc Nair is one of the better owners.

As far as Schaub be anointed as starting QB I think he has definitely looked better then Sage. Comparing Stats isn't fair because the majority of Schaub's games came with out the services of AJ.

 

[maddogmrb]

Additionally, he threw multiple balls that should have been picked off but the opposing DBs dropped. You can also argue that Schaub didn't get the benefit of AJs services which would have undoubtedly improved his stats. I like Sage and I think he is a good backup but I would trade him in a heartbeat for the right deal. Then I would go the Bucs and trade a low pick for one of the 37 QBs as my back up or try to draft Dixon in the late rounds. I think his knee injury is going to push him down in the draft quite a bit.

So, if we had traded Sage last year and brought in Zabranski or whatever other no-name we had on the practice squad when Schaub went down, we would have finished 8-8 and been optomistic about this year.... right? WRONG!

 

[Errant Hothy]

So, if we had traded Sage last year and brought in Zabranski or whatever other no-name we had on the practice squad when Schaub went down, we would have finished 8-8 and been optomistic about this year.... right? WRONG!

If we had traded Sage last year, do you really think that Kubiak would have relied on a rookie to be his back-up? I quess we've already answered this question inyour post.

They would have signed another veteran to be the back-up, just like they can if they trade Sage this year.

 

[ObsiWan]

I think ObsiWan missed the point. I don't believe there is another team in the league that would give us 2-2nd round picks and change places in the 1st round for Schaub now, and I don't think anyone else would've done it when we made the trade ...... we were just desperate. Okay, name me one other #2 QB in the league right now that you would give up what we did for Schaub.

No argument there.
I'm convinced that the reason we made the deal for Schaub was Sage's hand injury. If Sage had been healthy during the last month of the 06 season, Kubiak would have benched Carr to see what he had in Rosenfels. And I would be willing to bet that Sage would have won the #1 QB job.

And regarding your last statement, no #2 QB in the league today is as good as Schaub. So none of them are worth what Schaub was worth.

Maaaybe Kurt Warner. But if you think Schaub is fragile....

Cleo Lemon is probably the next best back-up. And you see how quick Del Rio snapped him up when he became available.

Tell ya what, gimme your list of #2s that are as good as Schaub then we'll talk about what they're worth. Remember, for this to be an apples-to-apples comparison, this #2 has to be ready to step in and start. That's what we were looking for when we dealt for Schaub.

 

[ChampionTexan]

Do you think anybody would make the deal we made to get Schaub now??
Could we get (2) 2nds and move up in the first round if we traded Schaub now? Would you do this? I would in a heartbeat, but I know there is no one out there that would do this. Why did we??? I think we could have gotten him for a lot less. Would you trade Schaub for (2) 2nds and a better position in the 1st round??

First off, I don't know what we could get for Schaub, and I'm not here to say he's the next great (or even really, really good) QB, because I don't know that either. But, it's a little unfair to ask one year later what could we get for him, since given the fact that the Texans weren't a playoff team in '07, and it was Schaub's first year as a full-time starter, it's not surprising if his stock has dropped. The majority of QB's don't live up to the hype in their first year of starting, and while Schaub certainly hasn't lived up to our elevated hopes so far, I saw some flashes of potential over his 11 games that I didn't see over Carr's five years. I also saw a couple of things that concerned me, and will be anxiously watching next year to see how year two goes. Look at Mario after year one and now. As we are more than aware, there were a whole bunch of people saying about Mario last year what you appear to be saying about Schaub now. I also think that even at this point, if Atlanta had it to do over again, there's no way they'd make the same deal now.

As to whether we could have gotten him for alot less - well, I'm pretty sure they tried, and didn't just give the Falcons whatever their first offer consisted of, but this is a trade that if Schaub's successful (Which for lack of a better measuring stick, I'll define as being a Top 10 NFL QB) will be more than worth it at twice what they paid. If Schaub's not successful, trading a 5th round pick for him would have been overpaying.

As much as most of us don't like it, and as much as it reminds us of an extremely painful (and unsuccessful) similar situation, the reality is that you can't determine if this was a good trade for at least another year - probably two (but maybe we've at least learned it shouldn't take five).

 

[HoustonFrog]

Yes we do.

Of the two QBs we have right now, we don't have a definitive starter.

We have two backups who are on the verge of being a starter. Schaub was not a starting QB with years of starting experience when we traded for him. People are PRETENDING that we acquired a starter in Matt Schaub. We didn't.

We speculated that he could start. A lot of Falcons fans tried to tell us he wouldn't be mobile enough...and we sorta' laughed them off. I see a guy who played the first game and looked sharp getting away from center--crisp steps, good footwork--and then he just began to slow down and the pass rush was on him wayyyy to quickly over the next few games.

Seeing Sage come in and rescue a season that was lloking to be flushed down the drain...well, it was a relief. The whole offense seemed to pick it up a step; there was a confidence in the huddle and on the field. Granted, Sage knows the offense and the players a lot better.

If anything makes me laugh, it's the "games" we play--and the games coaches play--when the proverbial "We don't have a QB controversy" comments start rolling out. As soon as THOSE comments start rolling out, then you absolutely 100&#37; know you have a competition going on. You don't hear the words "QB controversy" in Indy or New England...it's not even in the dictionary in those two places.

When you have to openly "deny" that there's a QB controversy...there IS one. Period.

Geesh, I'd think that Texans fans wouldn't care WHO started as long as it was the MAN who deserved to have the gig. After 5 years of David Carr, we kinda' need to let go of this pipe dream of being able to pencil in a starter and defend him to no end. You guys do realize that you're doing the same thing with Schaub that a lot of us (including ME) did with David?

Sitting around trashing people like me who just want SOMEONE to win the job and do it consistently, and therefore defending a backup QB like Schaub as if he's been a starter for years, is puzzling.

I am a Texans fan. Not a Sage fan. Not a Schaub fan. I think they shold battle it out. And I think there's a lot of truth to what the Titans' Haynesworth said when he said "I bet Sage would have liked to have seen some of that starting money!" We rolled the dice on Schaub, and I supported it when it happened, but I'm retreating on it...I don't think Schaub is the guy for the long term. I just don't. Out of the two backup QBs we have, I'd say they're pretty even in the race for the starting job right now.

8-8 is a lot better than 2-14. Kubiak and Smith are doing a great job. I'm glad we have Sage-Schaub to argue about...and not who our next HC shold be and why our GM is such a moron. Thank God THOSE days are gone.

GP, do you have selctive memory considering the made up facts you posted at the end of last season and all of the trash you talked that was disputed. Are you son of Hulk, brother of Sage?Seriously. I don't get where you are coming from. Its like you recharged your batteries and decided Sage needed help again.

Look at the bolded above. How did he save the season?He threw more ints in limited time. This kept teams in games. Teammates said Schaub was a leader and he didnt have AJ in starts. Yet he was Top 10 in 8 categories up until his injuries.

Sage is not a starter in the league. He isn't our starter or they wouldn't be entertaining trades. Sorry, you are wrong...again.

 

[Brando]

Also, the Vikings are still asking the Houston Texans about backup quarterback Sage Rosenfels. The Texans, though, won't consider a deal, unless the stakes include at least a second-round pick. With longstanding issues at quarterback - David Carr, a former No. 1 pick, was a major disappointment - the Texans are content with Rosenfels as a backup to Matt Schaub.

Rosenfels would be a solid backup in the event starter Tarvaris Jackson struggles at training camp or early in the season. Rosenfels was 4-1 as a starter last season when Schaub was hurt.

In addition, Cleo Lemon, Josh McCown and Billy Volek no longer are available.

"If there's something out there that we think can help our roster, whether it comes through trade or this free agency or if we wait until the draft to address it . . .," Spielman said, noting that the club has nine draft picks, including two in the third round. "Hopefully, we'll have the same success as we did last year."

twincity.com

 

[Specnatz]

Yes we do.

Of the two QBs we have right now, we don't have a definitive starter.

We have two backups who are on the verge of being a starter. Schaub was not a starting QB with years of starting experience when we traded for him. People are PRETENDING that we acquired a starter in Matt Schaub. We didn't.

We speculated that he could start. A lot of Falcons fans tried to tell us he wouldn't be mobile enough...and we sorta' laughed them off. I see a guy who played the first game and looked sharp getting away from center--crisp steps, good footwork--and then he just began to slow down and the pass rush was on him wayyyy to quickly over the next few games.

Seeing Sage come in and rescue a season that was lloking to be flushed down the drain...well, it was a relief. The whole offense seemed to pick it up a step; there was a confidence in the huddle and on the field. Granted, Sage knows the offense and the players a lot better.

If anything makes me laugh, it's the "games" we play--and the games coaches play--when the proverbial "We don't have a QB controversy" comments start rolling out. As soon as THOSE comments start rolling out, then you absolutely 100&#37; know you have a competition going on. You don't hear the words "QB controversy" in Indy or New England...it's not even in the dictionary in those two places.

When you have to openly "deny" that there's a QB controversy...there IS one. Period.

Geesh, I'd think that Texans fans wouldn't care WHO started as long as it was the MAN who deserved to have the gig. After 5 years of David Carr, we kinda' need to let go of this pipe dream of being able to pencil in a starter and defend him to no end. You guys do realize that you're doing the same thing with Schaub that a lot of us (including ME) did with David?

Sitting around trashing people like me who just want SOMEONE to win the job and do it consistently, and therefore defending a backup QB like Schaub as if he's been a starter for years, is puzzling.

I am a Texans fan. Not a Sage fan. Not a Schaub fan. I think they shold battle it out. And I think there's a lot of truth to what the Titans' Haynesworth said when he said "I bet Sage would have liked to have seen some of that starting money!" We rolled the dice on Schaub, and I supported it when it happened, but I'm retreating on it...I don't think Schaub is the guy for the long term. I just don't. Out of the two backup QBs we have, I'd say they're pretty even in the race for the starting job right now.

8-8 is a lot better than 2-14. Kubiak and Smith are doing a great job. I'm glad we have Sage-Schaub to argue about...and not who our next HC shold be and why our GM is such a moron. Thank God THOSE days are gone.

From what I can tell no one is really trashing you they think you logic is flawed and they make point to suggest that, just like I am about to do.

When Coach Kubiak says Schuab is our starting QB, that means we have a starter and a backup period. There is no debate, there is no lets see which one wins, it is Schuab is the starting QB. As far as you saying that as soon as a Coach says there is no Qb controversy then there is one, is kinda silly. what is Kubiak suppossed to do ignore John McLame asking retarded questions he can use in his next music video. If the question is asked even if it is not relavent it has to be answered.

I am not sure who these a lot of Falcons fans are that you are referring to that said Matt was to slow and that he was not worth the trade, but if you had gone to their message board you would have seen a lot of fans saying the traded the wrong QB. Now saying Matt is not mobile enough is kinda hard to determine, because he is more mobile than Payton Manning about equal to Tom Brady and no where near as mobile as Bret Favre and Tony Romo.

On this board you are going to get people who think they know more than they do, you get some all they do is rant and others who actually no a great deal about each position. When you make points expect them to be picked apart worse than a dead carcas on the side of the road.

 

[steelbtexan]

I think Mr. McNair wants to win & make money ala New England.

Atl. has 2 2nd rd. picks, I'm sure we could trade Schaub back to them.

I wouldn't do this trade although I'm sure some on this board would.

I trust RS & Kubes judgement more than GP's, CND's & Maddogs

KUBES has been playing or coaching QB's professionally for 25 years?

 

[CloakNNNdagger]

Has anyone given thought to the possibility that the FO is trying to establish a possible offer value for if they wish to resign Sage for the long term, possibly as a starter, depending on how the upsoming season shakes out?

 

[TexansSeminole]

We have two backup QBs trying to solidify a starting position.

One question: If Sage outplayed Schaub in the preseason, would you be behind him and support Sage as the starter in Game 1?

If Schaub outplayed Sage and won the gig...I'd be behind the starter.

Are you still lobbying for Sage as the starter.

My god, give it a break. It's like Hulk75 trying to get us to beleive that Carr doesn't suck.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Some say collegiate all-star games, combines, pro days and the draft bridge our want for more football. Not me I like to be front and center for this Theater of the Absurd. Anything can happen, anything can be said and everyone has an opinion.

Lastly, Sage is a back up QB. Dispute the facts, dispute the historicals, dispute the investment made, dispute what the market will bear for each QB, but understand that a healthy Schaub is our starter.

 

[Kaiser Toro]

Has anyone given thought to the possibility that the FO is trying to establish a possible offer value for if they wish to resign Sage for the long term, possibly as a starter, depending on how the upsoming season shakes out?

Sure that is a possibility, but much less than trying to get a second round pick to help the team.

 

[Brando]

Some say collegiate all-star games, combines, pro days and the draft bridge our want for more football. Not me I like to be front and center for this Theater of the Absurd. Anything can happen, anything can be said and everyone has an opinion.

Lastly, Sage is a back up QB. Dispute the facts, dispute the historicals, dispute the investment made, dispute what the market will bear for each QB, but understand that a healthy Schaub is our starter.

Yes he is. A good back up to have but Schaub is our starter. If Minnesota is trading for him to be a back up to Jackson that should close the case.