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What is Laremy Tunsil's worth in a trade?

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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assuming that was his agents strategy Texans (O’Brian) should have not made the trade. Pretty simple. Could not resign Clowney, Honey Badger, KJ now Hopkins. Have foreboding feeling, they won’t be able to resign Watson if agents are selling clients this same logic and Texans strategy cannot deal with this new paradigm. Tunsil trade sure has earmarks of an absolute blood bath of this front office blundering approach.
Hopefully they don't pay DW4 35 mil. He ain't that good.

Disagree about the Tunsil trade. Particularly with the cap going up.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
ssuming that was his agents strategy Texans (O’Brian) should have not made the trade.
You would rather Davenport protect Watson's blindside again? I disagree with your opinion. Clowney, HB, and KJ were already gone by that point. The whole purpose of Hopkins beinggone is so they could resign Watson
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
He didn't want Nuk on the team anymore and wanted draft capital. Why? we dont know the inner workings of the Texans org.
And what draft capital did he get? He got ****! You claim he got what he could because of Hopkins contract demands. Well that means lock this thread up because Tunsil wants to be paid and according to you no team is going to give equal return for someone wanting to get paid.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
You would rather Davenport protect Watson's blindside again? I disagree with your opinion. Clowney, HB, and KJ were already gone by that point. The whole purpose of Hopkins beinggone is so they could resign Watson
Didn’t have to give up two first round and a second without having that player signed to a new contract. There were other options out there. They could’ve traded clowney and Hopkins or anyone else for a veteran LT to hold up until this defat that is full of OTs and we would of been better off.
 

JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
There were other options out there. They could’ve traded clowney and Hopkins or anyone else for a veteran LT to hold up until this defat that is full of OTs and we would of been better off.
Such as? Clowney was already gone. What rookie this year would be better than Tunsil? And you still would have had Davenport last year
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Bottom line, OB has no clue in regards to moving or obtaining assets. NFL GM's know how to get what they want from OB versus OB knowing when to walk away and tell other GM's to go duck themselves.

Look at what Miami got in the Tunsil trade.....now we are trying to forecast what OB could get if he tried to move Tunsil a season later and after he had a decent season....hold my beer and hand me that Dunce Cone so I can nail my OB impersonation.
 
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JB

Old Curmudgeon
Contributor's Club
Look at what Miami got in the Tunsil trade.....now we are trying to forecast what OB would get if he tried to move Tunsil a season later and after Tunsil had a decent season....hold my beer and hand me that Dunce Cone
Because it's a fan board, not because it has any basis in fact. No one is stopping you from wearing a Dunce Cone
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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And what draft capital did he get? He got ****! You claim he got what he could because of Hopkins contract demands. Well that means lock this thread up because Tunsil wants to be paid and according to you no team is going to give equal return for someone wanting to get paid.
Agreed

This thread should be locked up.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Bottom line, OB has no clue in regards to moving or obtaining assets. NFL GM's know how to get what they want from OB versus OB knowing when to walk away and tell other GM's to go duck themselves.

Look at what Miami got in the Tunsil trade.....now we are trying to forecast what OB would get if he tried to move Tunsil a season later and after Tunsil had a decent season....hold my beer and hand me that Dunce Cone.
The draft capital was fair in this trade. IMHO We've been over this too many times to count.

Posters now are debating whether Tunsil is woth 20 mil per yr. With the Cap going up in 2021 and Tunsil being a 25 Pro Bowler my answer is YES. Those young talented guys are worth the $$$$.

Texans fans have been conditioned to think the draft is the only way to improve the team. (Great job by the Texans org selling this. It allows them to operate on the cheap)

Draftniks like BL (Love you man) buy into this because they like the draft season almost as much as the regular season (Me too) and are going to have to miss out for a couple of yrs.

However now that they have pick 40 you would think they would wanting to give their thoughts/mocks on this yrs draft.
 
Bottom line, OB has no clue in regards to moving or obtaining assets. NFL GM's know how to get what they want from OB versus OB knowing when to walk away and tell other GM's to go duck themselves.

Look at what Miami got in the Tunsil trade.....now we are trying to forecast what OB would get if he tried to move Tunsil a season later and after Tunsil had a decent season....hold my beer and hand me that Dunce Cone.
If you wanted to use the Hopkins trade I would agree with you but LA did literally the exact same deal for Ramsey that Texans did for Tunsil, including no new contract, and their GM has been there since 2012 and built a team that went to the SB.
 

beerlover

Hall of Fame
You would rather Davenport protect Watson's blindside again? I disagree with your opinion. Clowney, HB, and KJ were already gone by that point. The whole purpose of Hopkins beinggone is so they could resign Watson
agree to disagree. all these issues /contacts were easily mitigated under O’Brians reign if only he didn’t get so tee’d off with individuals personally.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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If they don't, then trading Hopkins to save cap space was nothing but a lie. Right?
Yep,

Hopefully they were lying.

If DW4 has a season like the last 5 games of the season and the team finishes say 6-10 and they 1. dont get fired (Like Smithiak should've been in 2010) 2. Are they lying because they decided to move on from DW4?
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Yep,

Hopefully they were lying.

If DW4 has a season like the last 5 games of the season and the team finishes say 6-10 and they 1. dont get fired (Like Smithiak should've been in 2010) 2. Are they lying because they decided to move on from DW4?
By the same standard, shouldn’t we be looking at Watson’s first 13 games versus pinning all our expectations on his last 5 games?

I suspect a lot of what happened over the last 5 games could be contributed to poor OL play due to injury, lack of a running game, injured receivers, lack of plays utilizing the TE’s since they were once again forced into becoming primary blockers, failure to use the RB’s in the passing game, while using an inflexible unimaginative offensive game plan. I’m taking this into consideration when grading Watson.
 

steelbtexan

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By the same standard, shouldn’t we be looking at Watson’s first 13 games versus pinning all our expectations on his last 5 games?

I suspect a lot of what happened over the last 5 games could be contributed to poor OL play due to injury, lack of a running game, injured receivers, lack of plays utilizing the TE’s since they were once again forced into becoming primary blockers, failure to use the RB’s in the passing game, while using an inflexible unimaginative offensive game plan. I’m taking this into consideration when grading Watson.
Last season was 10 good/great games/7 bad, poor games and that's being generous.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Last season was 10 good/great games/7 bad, poor games and that's being generous.
Are all factors being considered before heaving all the blame on Watson’s shoulders? By no means am I expecting Watson to be perfect for 16+ games but he will get better as the components around him and play calling get better.
 

steelbtexan

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Are all factors being considered before heaving all the blame on Watson’s shoulders? By no means am I expecting Watson to be perfect for 16+ games but he will get better as the components around him and play calling get better.
What components are you looking for?
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
What components are you looking for?
Healthy and improved OL.
TE's and RB's integrated into passing game.
Healthy WR's.
Improved performance by WR's now that Hopkins is gone and can no longer fade the heat from the rest of the group.
Better game planning to eliminate the predictability and bad play calling which could go a long way in diversifying this offense.
 
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Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Healthy and improved OL.
TE's and RB's integrated into passing game.
Healthy WR's.
Improved performance by WR's now that Hopkins is gone and can no longer fade the heat from the rest of the group.
Better game planning to eliminate the predictability and play calling could go a long way in diversifying this offense.

Some people refuses to look at the entire picture. They're too focused on their agenda. Now the dude went from saying he needs to improve here and there to he's a bad quarterback. Why? Because he can't stand the youngster, so every chance he gets, dude will come up with some more negative type comments.

Man I said pretty much the same exact thing and it's very clear he didn't even attempt to look at those other facts.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
Contributor's Club
Healthy and improved OL.
TE's and RB's integrated into passing game.
Healthy WR's.
Improved performance by WR's now that Hopkins is gone and can no longer fade the heat from the rest of the group.
Better game planning to eliminate the predictability and play calling could go a long way in diversifying this offense.
We all hope for health, that's a crap shoot. The TE play wasn't bad last year and with a healthy Warring it should be even better.

Cobb is going to help alot with the wr improvement. No more of Coutee running the wrong routes. In fact Cobb is the best slot wr this team has ever had.

Hopefully Kelly will help with this.

But fans of teams can usually pretty much call the plays of their teams.

Remember when fans used to complain about how predictable Kubiaks offense was? 3rd and long you knew a screen or draw was coming.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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Some people refuses to look at the entire picture. They're too focused on their agenda. Now the dude went from saying he needs to improve here and there to he's a bad quarterback. Why? Because he can't stand the youngster, so every chance he gets, dude will come up with some more negative type comments.

Man I said pretty much the same exact thing and it's very clear he didn't even attempt to look at those other facts.
I've never said he's a bad QB.

I said if he doesn't change the way he has played QB his whole life there will be no championship's and that he needs to improve his accuracy/anticipation or he will be an avg QB. Particularly when he loses some of his athleticism.

We differ in our opinions on this. There's nothing wrong with differing opinions.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I've never said he's a bad QB.

I said if he doesn't change the way he has played QB his whole life there will be no championship's and that he needs to improve his accuracy/anticipation or he will be an avg QB. Particularly when he loses some of his athleticism.

We differ in our opinions on this. There's nothing wrong with differing opinions.
What does below average mean? Lol

Again show me your proof on the accuracy and anticipation part. Brake the film down for us all to see. I’ve posted videos other members shared videos as well. Now can you do the same to prove your point.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
Look at this video clip watch the you throw with good accuracy, some anticipation throws, on the run throws and off script money plays. This is the good now you can post the bad.

Definitely gives you a lot to cheer about and only makes you wonder how much better they could be if the right person was designing game plans and calling plays on gameday.
 

steelbtexan

King of the W. B. Club
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What does below average mean? Lol

Again show me your proof on the accuracy and anticipation part. Brake the film down for us all to see. I’ve posted videos other members shared videos as well. Now can you do the same to prove your point.
Look at it for yourself then compare his accuracy to say Schaub's and tell me you can't see the difference.

Avg like great 10 weeks. Bad 7 weeks.

This is just another discussion of the same stuff.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
If you wanted to use the Hopkins trade I would agree with you but LA did literally the exact same deal for Ramsey that Texans did for Tunsil, including no new contract, and their GM has been there since 2012 and built a team that went to the SB.
So because it was done once by a proven gm for the best young CB in all of football that makes it ok that our bumbling idiot wanna bee gm did it. Gotcha!
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Look at it for yourself then compare his accuracy to say Schaub's and tell me you can't see the difference.

Avg like great 10 weeks. Bad 7 weeks.

This is just another discussion of the same stuff.

Ummm sir I watch these games just like you . And I just defused that crap you are spewing. Yes he misses his receivers just like every quarterback that’s played this game. Like Opt point out to you on yesterday, there’s others factors that played into him bad in a lot of those games. So I challenge you to back up your claims. Show us the plays he F’d up on. Point out those anticipation flaws . Break down exactly where he should’ve went with ball. Tell us was he operating in a clean pocket and etc.

Side note: I know a few games in which he was widely off target. He was missing his receivers badly and the pressure up front was getting to him with ease. Especially against really good defenses. But I also seen even the greats struggling like that too.
 
So because it was done once by a proven gm for the best young CB in all of football that makes it ok that our bumbling idiot wanna bee gm did it. Gotcha!
Its not a matter of ok or not ok but the argument has been that OB did it because he didn't know what he was doing and he's in over his head. Well he may very well be but no one has ever said Snead is in over his head and he did the exact same thing.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Its not a matter of ok or not ok but the argument has been that OB did it because he didn't know what he was doing and he's in over his head. Well he may very well be but no one has ever said Snead is in over his head and he did the exact same thing.
Snead made some very solid power moves to, didn’t he not. And he’s not unloading his best players like our great GM.
 

steelbtexan

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Ummm sir I watch these games just like you . And I just defused that crap you are spewing. Yes he misses his receivers just like every quarterback that’s played this game. Like Opt point out to you on yesterday, there’s others factors that played into him bad in a lot of those games. So I challenge you to back up your claims. Show us the plays he F’d up on. Point out those anticipation flaws . Break down exactly where he should’ve went with ball. Tell us was he operating in a clean pocket and etc.

Side note: I know a few games in which he was widely off target. He was missing his receivers badly and the pressure up front was getting to him with ease. Especially against really good defenses. But I also seen even the greats struggling like that too.
Look at the last 5 games or the Carolina/Oakland/1st Jags games for your answer.

Mahomes didn't seem to struggle badly against what I consider a great 49ers defense. The cream rises to the top and of course you will say this is all BOB's fault. (Some of it is, BOB should be using DW4 like Baltimore uses LJ if he wants to fully take the most advantage of DW4's skillset.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
Look at the last 5 games or the Carolina/Oakland/1st Jags games for your answer.

Mahomes didn't seem to struggle badly against what I consider a great 49ers defense. The cream rises to the top and of course you will say this is all BOB's fault. (Some of it is, BOB should be using DW4 like Baltimore uses LJ if he wants to fully take the most advantage of DW4's skillset.
Dude do you even watch the freaking games? I mean do you not understand who is calling the plays for the Chiefs? Do you not see they have the better offensive line. Even with major injuries they’re ranked 4th in pass protection while we were ranked 27th. Pat was only sacked 25 times to Deshaun’s 49. When you’re operating in a clean pocket most of the time with the ability to extend plays. Of course you’re going to set the league on fire. Not only that but you have elite weapons all across the board with top notch speed.
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
Look at the last 5 games or the Carolina/Oakland/1st Jags games for your answer.

Mahomes didn't seem to struggle badly against what I consider a great 49ers defense. The cream rises to the top and of course you will say this is all BOB's fault.


(Some of it is, BOB should be using DW4 like Baltimore uses LJ if he wants to fully take the most advantage of DW4's skillset.
And that’s why I want to go all offense in this draft. This is why I want Jalen Hurtz with our first pick. He was the most dangerous weapon in college football last year. Bring him in and use him like NO does hill. Design some of the offense just like Baltimore did around Jackson. Too bad we don’t have a coach that can put his ego aside and be innovative.
 

steelbtexan

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Dude do you even watch the freaking games? I mean do you not understand who is calling the plays for the Chiefs? Do you not see they have the better offensive line. Even with major injuries they’re ranked 4th in pass protection while we were ranked 27th. Pat was only sacked 25 times to Deshaun’s 49. When you’re operating in a clean pocket most of the time with the ability to extend plays. Of course you’re going to set the league on fire. Not only that but you have elite weapons all across the board with top notch speed.
I will bet you that atleast 10 of those sacks were due to DW4 holding onto the ball to long. Paul Alexander pointed out 3 in 1 game. This in addition to Duke/Hyde not being good at pass pro (Something DJ's good at) contributed greatly to those sack numbers. I'm not saying the OL lived up to my expectations (Mainly because of injury and Devlin) but they weren't as bad as you're trying to make them out to be.

Let me put it to you another way, how many times were you screaming at your TV last yr for DW4 to get rid of the damn ball and he took a sack?
 

steelbtexan

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And that’s why I want to go all offense in this draft. This is why I want Jalen Hurtz with our first pick. He was the most dangerous weapon in college football last year. Bring him in and use him like NO does hill. Design some of the offense just like Baltimore did around Jackson. Too bad we don’t have a coach that can put his ego aside and be innovative.
I'm on board with this.

Go full tilt RPO and have a backup QB with the same type QB. However it's my belief a QB has to have accuracy from the pocket to be successful in the NFL and neither one of these guys are accurate enough.
 

Texansballer74

Hall of Fame
I will bet you that atleast 10 of those sacks were due to DW4 holding onto the ball to long. Paul Alexander pointed out 3 in 1 game. This in addition to Duke/Hyde not being good at pass pro (Something DJ's good at) contributed greatly to those sack numbers. I'm not saying the OL lived up to my expectations (Mainly because of injury and Devlin) but they weren't as bad as you're trying to make them out to be.

Let me put it to you another way, how many times were you screaming at your TV last yr for DW4 to get rid of the damn ball and he took a sack?

And I can bet you 10 of those sacks were on Patrick Mahomas . That’s the nature of the game.

Only in a few games. I also screamed at Bill O’Brien the offensive line and that defense too. So back to my point, it was cluster F all across the board, not just Watson
 

steelbtexan

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And I can bet you 10 of those sacks were on Patrick Mahomas . That’s the nature of the game.

Only in a few games. I also screamed at Bill O’Brien the offensive line and that defense too. So back to my point, it was cluster F all across the board, not just Watson
SMDH

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt
 

mussop

Hall of Fame
SMDH

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt
www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/301555/what-separates-deshaun-watson-and-patrick-mahomes-one-huge-stat

maybe Watson Would be more accurate if he had the same level of protection as Mahomes? I mean youre willing to give BOB the benefit of the doubt and have suggested he should do better now that he has more power right? Look at their (Mahomes /Watson) stats. That’s about as close as you can get except for the fact that Watson is under way more pressure. You could also say Mahomes has better weapons and a better more creative play caller/designer. So.....
 

dream_team

Hall of Fame
I will bet you that atleast 10 of those sacks were due to DW4 holding onto the ball to long. Paul Alexander pointed out 3 in 1 game. This in addition to Duke/Hyde not being good at pass pro (Something DJ's good at) contributed greatly to those sack numbers. I'm not saying the OL lived up to my expectations (Mainly because of injury and Devlin) but they weren't as bad as you're trying to make them out to be.
Why you say DJ is good at pass pro? From what I've read, not his strong suit.


Let me put it to you another way, how many times were you screaming at your TV last yr for DW4 to get rid of the damn ball and he took a sack?
Very rarely. I don't want him to be a QB that quickly gives up on plays, we are taking away one of his strengths. Rodgers & Big Ben do the same thing, they hold onto the build longer than traditional QBs, because they're good at finding ways to buy time.
 

OptimisticTexan

Go Texans 4-3...Post OB!!!!!
www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/301555/what-separates-deshaun-watson-and-patrick-mahomes-one-huge-stat

maybe Watson Would be more accurate if he had the same level of protection as Mahomes? I mean youre willing to give BOB the benefit of the doubt and have suggested he should do better now that he has more power right? Look at their (Mahomes /Watson) stats. That’s about as close as you can get except for the fact that Watson is under way more pressure. You could also say Mahomes has better weapons and a better more creative play caller/designer. So.....
Great article that proves most any QB can have NFL success with the right pieces in place. I think OB goes hard for the trenches to save his career in Houston. I'm expecting 2 OL, 1 DE, 1 DT, 1 OLB in this draft. Toss in a RB, WR and CB....that should complete their 2020 NFL Draft.
 

steelbtexan

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www.espn.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/301555/what-separates-deshaun-watson-and-patrick-mahomes-one-huge-stat

maybe Watson Would be more accurate if he had the same level of protection as Mahomes? I mean youre willing to give BOB the benefit of the doubt and have suggested he should do better now that he has more power right? Look at their (Mahomes /Watson) stats. That’s about as close as you can get except for the fact that Watson is under way more pressure. You could also say Mahomes has better weapons and a better more creative play caller/designer. So.....
You could also say Mahomes has far more natural athletic ability/Reads defenses much better and that these are all excuses trying to explain away this fact
 

steelbtexan

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Why you say DJ is good at pass pro? From what I've read, not his strong suit.




Very rarely. I don't want him to be a QB that quickly gives up on plays, we are taking away one of his strengths. Rodgers & Big Ben do the same thing, they hold onto the build longer than traditional QBs, because they're good at finding ways to buy time.
Go back and watch DJ when Palmer was there and tell me what you think. RB's dont make all pro these days without being solid in pass pro.

Then you're not being honest with yourself. Then accept DW4 for what he is and know that there wont be improvement/rings down on Kirby. Regardless of who the HC is.
 


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